huge difference in retail rent... similar places?

bacon?

hi, i'm a 9 to 5 steady office job guy.

i'm toying with the idea of starting up a business... i'm a complete novice, so it's all just a bit of a pipe dream at the mo.

i'm looking into a deli/fast food type thing... and would love to have it in temple bar.

i've found these 2 premisises....

one is €17,850 yearly
http://www.property.ie/commercial-property/Unit-1-Wooden-Building-Upper-Exchange-Street-Temple-Bar-Dublin-2/47847/

and the other, which is smaller, is €36,000 per annum
http://www.hwbc.ie/uploadedfiles/pdf/Merchants%20Arch%202-3%20%28LR%29.pdf

am i missing something here... why the massive difference?

and how feesable is it to negotiate rents down, seeing as we're in a complete different kettle of fish than last year.

cheers

soddy1979

The price difference is probably something to do with the amount of people who walk past it each day. Merchant's arch has a lot of footfall - everyone going to/from the Haypenny bridge.

bacon?

soddy1979 wrote: »

The price difference is probably something to do with the amount of people who walk past it each day. Merchant's arch has a lot of footfall - everyone going to/from the Haypenny bridge.

thought that could be it.

i emailed the agent, they said the lease is in existence therefore the rent of €36,000 was sent in June 2004. There was a review due June of this year however there was no increase in rent.

looks like they're looking for boom time rent to me.

soddy1979

That's most likely a factor also. From the lessors perspective, you will always have people trying to get the highest prices possible (highest prices) and people trying to get the quickest deals possible (lowest prices).

It won't hurt you to try and negotiate. You could even use the other property as a reference point.

Best of luck.

bacon?

soddy1979 wrote: »

That's most likely a factor also. You will always have people trying to get the highest prices possible (highest prices) and people trying to get the quickest deals possible (lowest prices).

It won't hurt you to try and negotiate. You could even use the other property as a reference point.

Best of luck.

cheers dude, i'll keep an eye on it...

patftrears

bacon? wrote: »

hi, i'm a 9 to 5 steady office job guy.

i'm toying with the idea of starting up a business... i'm a complete novice, so it's all just a bit of a pipe dream at the mo.

i'm looking into a deli/fast food type thing... and would love to have it in temple bar.

i've found these 2 premisises....

one is €17,850 yearly
http://www.property.ie/commercial-property/Unit-1-Wooden-Building-Upper-Exchange-Street-Temple-Bar-Dublin-2/47847/

and the other, which is smaller, is €36,000 per annum
http://www.hwbc.ie/uploadedfiles/pdf/Merchants%20Arch%202-3%20%28LR%29.pdf

am i missing something here... why the massive difference?

and how feesable is it to negotiate rents down, seeing as we're in a complete different kettle of fish than last year.

cheers

Rent will end up being one of your smallest costs, rates, electricity, insurance, staff, foods etc. will be huge.

bacon?

patftrears wrote: »

Rent will end up being one of your smallest costs, rates, electricity, insurance, staff, foods etc. will be huge.

true... but every penny counts

murphaph

patftrears wrote: »

Rent will end up being one of your smallest costs, rates, electricity, insurance, staff, foods etc. will be huge.

With a passing rent of 36k a year and rates of 6.5k a year it appears to me that rent will still form a large outgoing in relation to his other outgoings, even if the rent is cut in half!

stepbar

bacon? wrote: »

and the other, which is smaller, is €36,000 per annum
http://www.hwbc.ie/uploadedfiles/pdf/Merchants%20Arch%202-3%20%28LR%29.pdf

cheers

Ask yourself why the previous people moved out?

The property to the right of that premises (red premises on the corner) used to be an O'Briens (and I know that from dealings with the previous tenant). It never did well.

Bandara

you may as well burn your money that open food business in that wooden building location.

And the Arch one isn't much better, I looked at it with subway last year and its a bad site that has never ever done well no matter what went in there.

On a side note your going into the most competitive location in this country for food and your a novice. And the way things are in town no one is doing anything more than just breaking even.

Sorry but you have not got a million to one chance of surviving.

If you are going to do this then at least look at somewhere that gives you various food offering options, that Heavenly company place (center of meeting house square) has been for sale for about 2 years now, it started about 300k asking and is down to about 160k last I looked, might be worth seeing if is still available. It offers you a decent sized seating area that has a license to seat people until very late at night. Just a suggestion.

bacon?

Hammertime wrote: »

you may as well burn your money that open food business in that wooden building location.

And the Arch one isn't much better, I looked at it with subway last year and its a bad site that has never ever done well no matter what went in there.

On a side note your going into the most competitive location in this country for food and your a novice. And the way things are in town no one is doing anything more than just breaking even.

Sorry but you have not got a million to one chance of surviving.

If you are going to do this then at least look at somewhere that gives you various food offering options, that Heavenly company place (center of meeting house square) has been for sale for about 2 years now, it started about 300k asking and is down to about 160k last I looked, might be worth seeing if is still available. It offers you a decent sized seating area that has a license to seat people until very late at night. Just a suggestion.

thanks for the feedback... that location is a little hidden....

yes, i am a novice.... but the fast food place i'm looking to set up, i've seen one in action... i'm very confident it would do very well.... but temple bar has to be the location...

It's great to be confident - just don't be stupid. Not saying you are at all by the way.

Please write out a business plan, work out the expenses, costs, down to a T. Speak to a butcher or someone who owns a deli already and find out what you need to know.

I don't know how a deli would make much money/profit in the good times when you take all the expenses into account so f*ck knows how they are surviving now. You're the one who is going to have to be the expert though so you should know everything about the business.

Bandara

Deleted User wrote: »

It's great to be confident - just don't be stupid. Not saying you are at all by the way.

Please write out a business plan, work out the expenses, costs, down to a T. Speak to a butcher or someone who owns a deli already and find out what you need to know.

I don't know how a deli would make much money/profit in the good times when you take all the expenses into account so f*ck knows how they are surviving now. You're the one who is going to have to be the expert though so you should know everything about the business.

Well run delis operate off a margin of about 55%.

Hammertime

Hammertime wrote: »

Well run delis operate off a margin of about 55%.

Wow.

:eek:

I say the amount of well run delis are few and far between, right ?

helimachoptor

I work in Citywest, there's a spar there, the deli does a massive business but the rolls are cheaper than anywhere else i've found, they defintely make their money through volume.

bacon?

i found an ideal location... but the rent seems kinda high... €3,250 pm.

also, it's a 5 year lease...

what happens if i start a business here and it goes bad... i'm not familiar with lease hold... do i need to take out a mortgage for the 5 year period?

is it like buying a freehold property... i just pass on the lease?

does €3,250 pm sound reasonable for temple bar?

Bandara

Worth checking out this location mate.....
http://www.owenscommercial.ie/printlisting.php (its the 4th ad from the end)


Coffee Shop - For Sale -Leasehold Interest - Cafe Vivaldi , Unit 4 Temple Bar Square , Temple Bar , Dublin 2

The property occupies an excellent trading position on Temple Bar Square in one of the busiest pedestrianised parts of the Temple Bar District. The property comprises a ground floor fully fitted retail unit of 10.5 sq.m. In addition there is outside seating for 34 persons on Temple Bar Square. The property is held on a 25 year lease with 5 year rent reviews from 1 December 1995 subject to a current rent of €26,000 p.a. Service charge €1,000 p.a. In addition there is an annual licence fee of €7,200 payable to Temple Bar properties for the outside seating. Turnover €190,556 p.a. Price €55,000.

You'd get it for 40-45k imo, total annual rent all in is 34k

bacon?

Hammertime wrote: »

Worth checking out this location mate.....
http://www.owenscommercial.ie/printlisting.php (its the 4th ad from the end)


Coffee Shop - For Sale -Leasehold Interest - Cafe Vivaldi , Unit 4 Temple Bar Square , Temple Bar , Dublin 2

The property occupies an excellent trading position on Temple Bar Square in one of the busiest pedestrianised parts of the Temple Bar District. The property comprises a ground floor fully fitted retail unit of 10.5 sq.m. In addition there is outside seating for 34 persons on Temple Bar Square. The property is held on a 25 year lease with 5 year rent reviews from 1 December 1995 subject to a current rent of €26,000 p.a. Service charge €1,000 p.a. In addition there is an annual licence fee of €7,200 payable to Temple Bar properties for the outside seating. Turnover €190,556 p.a. Price €55,000.

You'd get it for 40-45k imo, total annual rent all in is 34k

not really what i'm after... cheers for the post though....

the place i'm looking at is €39,000 yearly, and 65 sq. metres....

it's a bit down from the main square, do you think that rent is fair?