NAMA March Sept 12th next

Pappacharlie

I am appealing to all Boards subscribers to turn out and support the protest march on Saturday 12th Sept. The March will depart from the Garden of Remembrance @ 2pm and proceed to the Dail. This is an opportunity for the ordinary people of Ireland (sorry for sounding like Joe Higgins) to show their opposition to this looney proposal. It's time to restore democracy in this fair land and stop following blindly those fools that were voted into power. Let's try and stop the madness and think for ourselves and our children. I think that there will be a massive turnout and maybe just maybe we collectively can make a difference!!

Lplated

Are you merely against the NAMA proposal or will you (or the march organisers) be making a counter proposal??

Its very easy to be 'against' something, but its a waste of time imo unless you can propose a better solution.

W!zard

Changes are needed and will happen. This protest sounds like a "No" without any backup of a better plan and is poorly written on emotion to get a reaction not a result.

This trend should be moved to another section of the boards or deleted.

Dabko

Lplated wrote: »

Are you merely against the NAMA proposal or will you (or the march organisers) be making a counter proposal??

Its very easy to be 'against' something, but its a waste of time imo unless you can propose a better solution.

Too true. Not having a workable alternate proposal as to how to deal with the situation is what we have Fine Gael for. They piss and moan about everything, yet propose nothing better.
Im not exactly a FF supporter either, but if a bunch of people are going to get together to 'march' about a solution that may free up credit for an economic recovery, would they not be better suited to get together in a hotel conference room and put together a better proposal??

We're in a mess. Any amount of marching or protesting is not going to magically turn back time and stop all this from happening in the beginning. Pool resources and come up with plans to move forward.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

My name is URL

NAMA will go ahead, marching is stupid

Can we protest the lousy weather instead?

Run_to_da_hills

NAMA = Pay off the Fatcats.

TheZohanS

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

NAMA = Pay off the Fatcats.

What do you suggest RTDH?

General Zod

Pappacharlie wrote: »

It's time to restore democracy in this fair land and stop following blindly those fools that were voted into power.

Isn't "voted into power" democracy? Representational democracy, but democracy none the less?

Do you propose a return to ancient Greek democracy?

dr.bollocko

Scien wrote: »

Nothing to do with Entrepreneurship or Business Management.

Moved to AH.

This has nothing to do with AH.
Moved to Irish economy.

jmayo

I love the way these threads about the anti NAMA march are hijacked immediately by some posters, some of whom I recognise straight away as champions of our government and/or the banking sector.

I really like the question, "if you are NO to NAMA then what is your proposal ?".

Perhaps the organisors should request all marchers to firstly present a written draft proposal before they are allowed march ?
Then perhaps the pro NAMA fanclub, probable beneficiaries, would be happy.

Others come up with the argument that they won't march because there could be others of a political persuasion on the march that they vehemently disgaree with it.
Would that mean you would not go to Ireland football match because there is someone there that supports a different club ?

I see this march as a way of telling our inept spineless subservenient government, the banks that see this as a way out of the mess they created and the rich greedy developers who see it as a way to hang onto their crumbling empires to look for another solution to their problems and not to shaft the taxpayers of this country, both present and future.

I couldn't care less who else is on the march, since for that day alone we stand together in our opposition to a scheme that will have us, the normal taxpayers, in hock for a generation or more to pay for the shabby broken egotistical fantasies and greed of a select few.

I am not daft enough to not realise that the taxpayer will end up suffering for this mess, but they should be the last in the line, not the first as envisaged by the proposers of NAMA and as can be starkly highlighted by the Carroll Zoe affair.

Mr.Micro

jmayo wrote: »

I love the way these threads about the anti NAMA march are hijacked immediately by some posters, some of whom I recognise straight away as champions of our government and/or the banking sector.

I really like the question, "if you are NO to NAMA then what is your proposal ?".

I am no to NAMA and my proposal would be to hold a general election and if the FF clowns scraped in again then they would have the mandate to to impose NAMA. With the prospect of giving 90 billion of taxpayers money to a golden few there should be at least a referendum on the matter.

W!zard

This is a serious problem, a massive problem and we lost the plot, the world included. NAMA is the last defence we have, the best one, this is not fanboy stuff.
I don't like the idea of NAMA but it has to be done or say hello to IMF.

We had the chance to turn this around two years ago, it is not possible now, now we need to pick the best out of the worest and let all of us dig ourselves out of this mess, not the International community.
At the very least, there is talk about making NAMA better before it will get passed. Let this trend be constructive and not be a "which side are you on.." topic.

leonardjos

W!zard wrote: »

This is a serious problem, a massive problem and we lost the plot, the world included.

The whole world didn't lose the plot, Canada and Australia do not have a banking crisis or public finance crisis. Nor even did the whole of Ireland lose the plot. Many people warned about the over reliance on the property sector, and many people chose not to play the great property game.

W!zard wrote: »

NAMA is the last defence we have, the best one, this is not fanboy stuff.
I don't like the idea of NAMA but it has to be done or say hello to IMF.

Not true, there are alternatives as outlined by economists and the opposition parties. I would rather the IMF come in and clean up the situation any day if it meant we were spared the NAMA treachery and continued Fianna Fail incompetence and corruption.

W!zard wrote: »

We had the chance to turn this around two years ago, it is not possible now, now we need to pick the best out of the worest and let all of us dig ourselves out of this mess, not the International community.

It's not a matter of digging ourselves out of the mess, its a case of who will pay to clean it up. The correct answer - bank bondholders and shareholders. The taxpayer should only take the leftover losses which are absolutely unavoidable.

W!zard wrote: »

At the very least, there is talk about making NAMA better before it will get passed. Let this trend be constructive and not be a "which side are you on.." topic.

Trying to make NAMA better is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig

jmayo

W!zard wrote: »

This is a serious problem, a massive problem and we lost the plot, the world included. NAMA is the last defence we have, the best one, this is not fanboy stuff.
I don't like the idea of NAMA but it has to be done or say hello to IMF.

We had the chance to turn this around two years ago, it is not possible now, now we need to pick the best out of the worest and let all of us dig ourselves out of this mess, not the International community.
At the very least, there is talk about making NAMA better before it will get passed. Let this trend be constructive and not be a "which side are you on.." topic.

Ah I see the hint of ff propaganda.
The whole world did not lose the plot as pointed out by leonardjos.

NAMA is not the last defense, it is the favoured defense by the banks (those that are covered) and by a government run by a party that is so up the developers ar**es that they share proctologists.

If you want solutions why not check the interview given by Bo Lundgren, who helped save the Swedish banking system as to why he disagrees with NAMA.

Again the language of FF, "let us all dig ourselves out of this mess".
Why should the taxpayers be the ones at the bottom of the hole, with the bankers, the shareholders, the bondholders and the developers on our shoulders ?
You say we will dig ourselves out of this mess and not levae it to the international community.
Do you actually know what the ECB will have to do, even if NAMA comes in ?
Our banking system would not have survived this long without them.

Who do you think will buy the bonds that NAMAM is tlaking about issuing ? Will it not be internaitonal investors ?

leonardjos wrote: »

...

Trying to make NAMA better is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig

Well pigs do have an ongoing link with the NAMA proposal.

Most see it as "a pig in a poke" and most reckon property price recover mooted by NAMAM proposers in 7/8 years time will happen just when the "pigs will fly" :rolleyes:

I'll be there with bells on and try rally as many people as possible to come. I can only hope for a decent turn out because the more I hear about nama, the more it looks like the middle classes will be screwed, as per usual, for decades to come.

Why should the taxpayers be the ones at the bottom of the hole, with the bankers, the shareholders, the bondholders and the developers on our shoulders ?

Sums it up.

Dob74

TheZohan wrote: »

What do you suggest RTDH?

Nationalise the banks.
The only way to get a fair price for property.
then sell off the banks when they are in good shape

population

Ill be there and unless everyone else wishes to allow this heist to take place, I suggest you all get down there too

valen

For those who have trouble articulating the problems with the government's current view on how to do NAMA, there are a few 'beginners guides' to it;

Karl Whelan's presentation to the Labour Party;
http://issuu.com/labour/docs/lp-presentation

"Morality of NAMA";
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0907/1224254001191.html

Anyone else got some well-structured arguments they liked ?