referendum on europe

conchubhar1

Since when has Lisbon been about Ireland being a member of Europe?

But those lies will not be blasted and those groups that tell those lies will not be ridiculed and called out.


(about the posters by various yes sides that ireland belongs in Europe etc..)

Hypocrites, no?.

marco_polo

conchubhar1 wrote: »

Since when has Lisbon been about Ireland being a member of Europe?

But those lies will not be blasted and those groups that tell those lies will not be ridiculed and called out.


(about the posters by various yes sides that ireland belongs in Europe etc..)

Hypocrites, no?.

Two things before we start,

Firstly can you a compile list of Yes Campaigns whose websites clearly state that Ireland will be kicked out of the EU if we vote no again.

Once you have finished that list, then compile a list of No Campaigns whose websites do not mention any of the following three points. Abortion, Neutrality and Tax.

I will be awaiting you research with much interest.

ei.sdraob

conchubhar1 wrote: »

Hypocrites, no?.

someone quick post a picture of Coir posters

conchubhar1

posters.

most of the yes posters state that ireland is ''stronger in europe'' ''we need europe'' etc

yes - true - but it very much implies we will be outcast or on the sidelines of europe and out membership in jeopardy if we vote no.



I agree - no campaigners had and still do have a lot of lies. as i pretty much said they are blasted as spreading lies - that lie is only one, but is a very potent lie.

--
there is an ó in ''cóir'' - otherwise I wholeheartedly agree.

oscarBravo

conchubhar1 wrote: »

most of the yes posters state that ireland is ''stronger in europe'' ''we need europe'' etc

yes - true - but it very much implies we will be outcast or on the sidelines of europe and out membership in jeopardy if we vote no.

I don't think our membership is in jeopardy, but our historically strong negotiating position, built up through years of goodwill accumulation, certainly is in the event of a "no" vote.

BlitzKrieg

I would agree with conchubhar, these posters will cause more problems for the yes campaign then support.

But the reality is what can you put on the posters for the yes campaign? The treaty doesnt lend itself to simple single word statements to sell it. I mean look at this forum where normally we need a multiple paragraph post from sink, scafflow and a few other posters to explain its benefits and even that is followed by 10+ page debate.

Riskymove

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

But the reality is what can you put on the posters for the yes campaign? The treaty doesnt lend itself to simple single word statements to sell it. I mean look at this forum where normally we need a multiple paragraph post from sink, scafflow and a few other posters to explain its benefits and even that is followed by 10+ page debate.

I agree, thats been the problem all along for the Yes side

I mean "Vote yes for a modified legislative procedure" is hardly gonna get people interested

likewise the other option of refuting no claims gets nowhere

conchubhar1

how about lisbon gives:

1 - new guidelines for entry and exit from the eu
2 - the council will meet in the open when debating and passing a law
3 - citezens initiative
4 - time for oireachtas to view proposals and debate them


they are points that lend easy to quick and effective posters....

for more info go to ...... list of websites and places the ref com has books.leaflets

Riskymove

conchubhar1 wrote: »

how about lisbon gives:

1 - new guidelines for entry and exit from the eu
2 - the council will meet in the open when debating and passing a law
3 - citezens initiative
4 - time for oireachtas to view proposals and debate them

Average Joe's eyes glaze over


"Yes to Lisbon = Armageddon "

Average Joe's eyes widen

conchubhar1

yes side continue to belittle the intelligence of the voters

voters say **** that - **** them, im voting no....


so clever yes campaigners continue on their merry little way to a sure no vote - but instead of doing something constructive they wait till the inevitable defeat and then scream ''what could we do, lies they told lies but we could not fight back with the truth, that would take effort''

Riskymove

conchubhar1 wrote: »

so clever yes campaigners continue on their merry little way to a sure no vote - but instead of doing something constructive they wait till the inevitable defeat and then scream ''what could we do, lies they told lies but we could not fight back with the truth, that would take effort''

we are talking about posters here...I am all for the benefits of the treaty to be focussed on in print and on tv/radio...but really cant see how posters along the lines of what you suggest would have any effect

oscarBravo

conchubhar1 wrote: »

yes side continue to belittle the intelligence of the voters

voters say **** that - **** them, im voting no....


so clever yes campaigners continue on their merry little way to a sure no vote - but instead of doing something constructive they wait till the inevitable defeat and then scream ''what could we do, lies they told lies but we could not fight back with the truth, that would take effort''

OK, you got us. We're patronising, arrogant ****wits to a man.

So tell us: what would be a good "yes" campaign poster?

Euro_Kraut

oscarBravo wrote: »

So tell us: what would be a good "yes" campaign poster?

At least one that has 'Yes to Lisbon' instead of 'Yes to Europe'. We are not voting on 'Europe' and it is dishonest to suggest otherwise.

There are some very highly paid people tasked with coming up with these solgans. I can't accept that the ones we have seen so far are the very best we could do.

As a Yes voter I am dismayed with what I have seen to date.

ixtlan

oscarBravo wrote: »

So tell us: what would be a good "yes" campaign poster?

Well I don't think it should be that hard. Just taking some points from Sink's 10 reasons...

Who do you want negotiating with Russia over gas supplies? Cowen or the EU council? - vote yes

Combat people trafficking - vote yes.

Vote Yes for the people's initiative. (A little vague but hopefully people will then find out what it means)

Allow the Dail to contribute to EU legislation. Vote yes.

Give your MEPs a say in the EU budget. Vote yes.

All these can be argued by the No side, but it would be a relief to have them arguing that something was NOT in the treaty and the yes side saying it was, rather than the debate being constantly about what the No side says in the treaty and the yes side saying it was not. That might seem the same thing but it's not. It would allow a more positive attitude for the yes groups.

Ix.

oscarBravo

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

At least one that has 'Yes to Lisbon' instead of 'Yes to Europe'. We are not voting on 'Europe' and it is dishonest to suggest otherwise.

In a sense, we are. The member states have agreed among themselves what direction they want to take, and we're being asked to give them permission to take it there.

As for a poster saying "Vote Yes to Lisbon", don't you know that we're a contrary people and don't take kindly to being told what to do?

molloyjh

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

I would agree with conchubhar, these posters will cause more problems for the yes campaign then support.

But the reality is what can you put on the posters for the yes campaign? The treaty doesnt lend itself to simple single word statements to sell it. I mean look at this forum where normally we need a multiple paragraph post from sink, scafflow and a few other posters to explain its benefits and even that is followed by 10+ page debate.

It's a sad day when referenda on serious political issues are decided by snappy one liners hanging from a lamp-post!

Scofflaw

ixtlan wrote: »

Well I don't think it should be that hard. Just taking some points from Sink's 10 reasons...

Who do you want negotiating with Russia over gas supplies? Cowen or the EU council? - vote yes

Combat people trafficking - vote yes.

Vote Yes for the people's initiative. (A little vague but hopefully people will then find out what it means)

Allow the Dail to contribute to EU legislation. Vote yes.

Give your MEPs a say in the EU budget. Vote yes.

All these can be argued by the No side, but it would be a relief to have them arguing that something was NOT in the treaty and the yes side saying it was, rather than the debate being constantly about what the No side says in the treaty and the yes side saying it was not. That might seem the same thing but it's not. It would allow a more positive attitude for the yes groups.

Ix.

I'd add:

Greater democratic control of the EU - vote Yes.

A rights-based EU - vote Yes.

An EU with better workers' rights - vote Yes.

A more transparent EU - vote Yes.

A simpler EU - vote Yes.

Retention of the Irish Commissioner - vote Yes.

Better rights for children - vote Yes.

Commitment to full employment - vote Yes.

Commitment to fight climate change - vote Yes.

Commitment to eradicate poverty - vote Yes.

A clearly delimited EU - vote Yes.


And, yes, I can give chapter and verse for any of those.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ShooterSF

The posters are horrible. They might as well have made a poster saying "Isn't Portugal a lovely spot. I stayed there last summer and it was great craic. Vote Yes to Lisbon."

ei.sdraob

molloyjh wrote: »

It's a sad day when referenda on serious political issues are decided by snappy one liners hanging from a lamp-post!

its 21st century

if it doesn't fit in 140 characters its no good as the attention span of people has gone to ****s

conchubhar1

conchubhar1 wrote: »

how about lisbon gives:

1 - new guidelines for entry and exit from the eu
2 - the council will meet in the open when debating and passing a law
3 - citezens initiative
4 - time for oireachtas to view proposals and debate them

they are points that lend easy to quick and effective posters....

for more info go to ...... list of websites and places the ref com has books.leaflets

Now - OscarBravo, can you ignore these recomendations twice?


The yes siders, keep going on insulting the electorate - see where that gets you.
the mark of insanity/stupidity is doing the same thing twice but expecting different results. paraphrased of course.

simplistic

Dont worry about a NO vote and being maginalized.We the Irish people can do what we have gotten really good at lately and simply get on our knees and beg europe to open its golden belt and drop its trousers and get down to ****ing business!

"generation yes, Yes ,YESSSS ohhhhhhhhhhhhh nice one Ireland now swallow and get back to work"

conchubhar1

good contribution, sarcasm is good when responding to a useless point like above

simplistic

Greater democratic control of the EU - vote Yes.

Democracy equals oppression not freedom voting for a master is an insult to anyone intelligent - vote no

A rights-based EU - vote Yes.

You have no rights they are only a concept a magic peice of paper does not give you rights...it gives you the illusion of rights and your government will end up violationing them anyway. - vote no

An EU with better workers' rights - vote Yes.

same as above - vote no

A more transparent EU - vote Yes.

bull -vote no

A simpler EU - vote Yes.

Simpler to initaiate wars based on phoney terrorism -vote no

Retention of the Irish Commissioner - vote Yes.

So what?- vote no

Better rights for children - vote Yes.

You have no rights they are only a concept a magic peice of paper does not give you rights...it gives you the illusion of rights and your government will end up violationing them anyway. - vote no

Commitment to full employment - vote Yes.

commitment to tax farming its livestock YOU - vote no

Commitment to fight climate change - vote Yes.

Yes lets fight nature and the sun! Prove climate change. vote no

Commitment to eradicate poverty - vote Yes.

Commitment to enslave nations through debt trough a privatly owned european central bank that creates more poverty and pain than the plague. Vote No

A clearly delimited EU - vote Yes.

Thats the scracist one of all - Vote NO

marco_polo

conchubhar1 wrote: »

good contribution, sarcasm is good when responding to a useless point like above

conchubhar1 wrote: »

ah sarcasm - always there when you have nothing else to use and to deflect from the argument.

Sarcasm. Great when I agree with the poster!.

ei.sdraob

simplistic wrote: »

Retention of the Irish Commissioner - vote Yes.

So what?- vote no

thats not what the NO campaign were saying last year

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZIgZe0eOkY8/SUbNgc2wAJI/AAAAAAAAAEg/cmarNb1vNI0/s200/Commissioner.jpg

funny how its not an issue now...