Re-Applying for apprenticeship/trainee to Big/Other firms who've already rejected you

Irishlawgirl

I know everyone who got a traineeship is off to B'hall this month but for those of us who haven't secured one - here we go again right?! Think this is YEAR THREE for me!! Clearly i'm doing something hideously wrong in interviews but aside from that - I'd like to know what are people's thoughts on re-applying to the big firms and smaller firms for apprenticeships. I'm thinking along the lines of - no harm I guess in filling out all the applications again (particularly that my CV has expanded since last year) and also with regard to all the other firms - is it still a bit too early to be sending in CV's now for b'hall 2010?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Dante09

heh....just noticed that MOPs have this years application form up on their website already.
To be honest, i dont think there should be a new thread on this and that this one: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=27367&page=41 should be continued.

Irishlawgirl

Just looking up the same stuff myself re applications. This thread can be moved if anyone wants but I 've been on that other thread that you've outlined above and it's very helpful for advice re getting an apprenticeship - I only opened this one as I was just specifically asking/wondering if anyone, who has previously applied to the big five firms mainly (filling out their application forms), are going to apply again, having not even gotten as far as the first round last year/in previous years. I probably will myself re-apply but they are very time consuming and not sure if firms might think to themselves "if I didn't call you before, clearly you're not the right fit for this place".

johnfás

I got rejected from a Big 5 internship programme and then got a job offer from them in the following round of interviews. It is no big deal and don't let it put you off. They want to see what you have done in the interim though and that is a question (or was last year) on many of the applications if you had applied before.

legal eagle 1

Personally, I don't think I will be applying to the big 5 this year. My reasons being I'm not waiting round till 2011/2012 for a training contract, either I get one lined up for 2010 or i'm out! Plus, I think i've realised this year that I really don't want to train with these firms, its not the type of law I want to have a career in and I think the recruiters in these firms can tell this from reading my cv and my application forms ,no matter how much I try to conceal it. I am defo going to reapply to some small to medium size firms I have already tried because I do think that situations in these firms can change and therefore there may be an opening for me (hopefully). I have started already on some firms for next year, I think its good to get your name in the heads of some of the partners of these firms as early as possible so that when their situation changes, your the person they think of. Maybe this year will be our year

legal eagle 1

Dante09 wrote: »

heh....just noticed that MOPs have this years application form up on their website already.
To be honest, i dont think there should be a new thread on this and that this one: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=27367&page=41 should be continued.

I disagree with this and if it okay with the moderators, i hope this thread stays open, i think the other thread on the other site is outdated now, a new year calls for a new thread me thinks

yellar

Irishlawgirl wrote: »

I know everyone who got a traineeship is off to B'hall this month but for those of us who haven't secured one - here we go again right?! Think this is YEAR THREE for me!! Clearly i'm doing something hideously wrong in interviews but aside from that - I'd like to know what are people's thoughts on re-applying to the big firms and smaller firms for apprenticeships. I'm thinking along the lines of - no harm I guess in filling out all the applications again (particularly that my CV has expanded since last year) and also with regard to all the other firms - is it still a bit too early to be sending in CV's now for b'hall 2010?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

i feel your pain.... second year college 3 interviews, third year in college 2 interviews. Masters in law and 4 fe1s - ZERO interviews. the forms are a pain! think i remember last nov that MOPS had some kind of test to do! before even getting to the application form.
im really at a loss as to what the want. ive been work on and off with a legal agency/ town agency for the past 5 years nearly so on top of the study i have hand on court work experience!! and still cant get even an interview. i was considering mass sending out the CVs to the smaller firms but the bloody recession stopped that.

i think its a case of if at first we dont succeed try try again!

Sangre

Got offers from several places that I had badly applied to the year before

legal eagle 1

For some light relief people.......this is the type of trainee solicitor a top scottish law firm has taken on http://www.rollonfriday.com/ThisWeek/News/tabid/58/Id/245/fromTab/36/Default.aspx
So anyone wanna release a pop video with me??!! :P

Aprilsunshine

Definitely apply again. The big 5 firm I'm in makes a point of looking at what you did in the interim and many of the trainees were rejected 1st time only to be offered the next year.
Online application forms are going up in the next few weeks.

legal eagle 1

Anyone have any views on when the best time is to start applying to small/medium size firms for a TC??
I think it may also be helpful if people start posting up when they spot the big 5 and other firms uploading their new application forms and if anyone spots any new firms etc offering a recruitment programme this year to let people know as well. If we all help each other it may make the process a bit easier for us all and hopefully we'll all be successful this year

Anniemags

Hey all, I joined this forum as a means of sussing out the prospects of apprenterships when/if I com home from Australia. Im feeling motivated and a bit freaked out reading the threads. I'll apply for the top firms from down here, but who recommends the good old fashioned knowking on doors?Are any of ye doing this or is mass send out of cv's? I REALLY want to start in Spt 2010 - dont we all- so is it true that most of the big firms are recruiting for 2011 and beyond?

legal eagle 1

Hey all, I joined this forum as a means of sussing out the prospects of apprenterships when/if I com home from Australia. Im feeling motivated and a bit freaked out reading the threads. I'll apply for the top firms from down here, but who recommends the good old fashioned knowking on doors?Are any of ye doing this or is mass send out of cv's? I REALLY want to start in Spt 2010 - dont we all- so is it true that most of the big firms are recruiting for 2011 and beyond?

I think most of the big firms are going to be recruiting for 2011/2012 and maybe even later than that given the downturn. As far as I can remember the only law firm last year offering training contracts for this Septe
mber was William Fry, maybe it will be the same with them this year?! As regards knocking on doors, its tough and extremely depressing but, you get more out of it than mass sending out of cv's. From what I've been told in last few weeks, it seems that it is too early to be looking for contract for 2010, that the firms are trying to assess where the economy is going and whether it will improve, two or three solicitors have mentioned January as being the most appropriate time to start the search but, who knows:rolleyes:

Dandelion6

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

From what I've been told in last few weeks, it seems that it is too early to be looking for contract for 2010, that the firms are trying to assess where the economy is going and whether it will improve, two or three solicitors have mentioned January as being the most appropriate time to start the search but, who knows:rolleyes:

I was advised by a couple solicitors to start looking now but I'm not sure that's right. Most of the ones I've applied to haven't responded at all - good bad or indifferent. And I have a strong CV and have sent it to the firms that my experience is most appropriate to. I'm hoping they're just holding onto it until they have some idea what their needs will be, rather than throwing it in the bin!

legal eagle 1

I was advised by a couple solicitors to start looking now but I'm not sure that's right. Most of the ones I've applied to haven't responded at all - good bad or indifferent. And I have a strong CV and have sent it to the firms that my experience is most appropriate to. I'm hoping they're just holding onto it until they have some idea what their needs will be, rather than throwing it in the bin!

See everyone has a different opinion on when the best time is, i think its a game of luck really at this stage, your cv may arrive just on the day the firm realises they need someone but, to predict that day.......well answers on a postcard please

legal eagle 1

Ok trying to make a list for myself of the big law firms that have recruitment programmes, so far i have the following:
William Fry
Arthur Cox
Dillon Eustace
McCann Fitzgerald
Malcomson
LK Shields
MOPs (Have application form up online)
A & L Goodbody (Have application form up online)
BCM Hanby Wallace (Have application form up online)
Ronan Daly Jermyn
Can anyone think of any other firms I have left out?
Many Thanks;)

Dante09

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Ok trying to make a list for myself of the big law firms that have recruitment programmes, so far i have the following:
William Fry
Arthur Cox
Dillon Eustace
McCann Fitzgerald
Malcomson
LK Shields
MOPs (Have application form up online)
A & L Goodbody (Have application form up online)
BCM Hanby Wallace (Have application form up online)
Ronan Daly Jermyn
Can anyone think of any other firms I have left out?
Many Thanks;)

Eversheds O'Donell Sweeney
Beauchamps
Eugene.f.Collins
WhitneyMoore
Landwell
Mason Hayes Curran
Maples and Calder
Phillip Lee

Arthur Cox have new application form up too, with a new website to boot.

legal eagle 1

WhitneyMoore

Thanks. The above do they run a recruitment programme or do you just email in your cv?

Arthur Cox have new application form up too, with a new website to boot.

Nice website..........still wouldn't persuade me to apply to them again though!

Irishlawgirl

THanks for all the input above - i've decided with going ahead with re-applying to the big firms. The forms are an absolute pain but as it was said above, some trainees with these firms weren't called based on their first application.

With regards timing, i've read both views above and I have to agree with the wait until January approach. All firms that I know, mainly small to medium general practices, are trying to work out if they're still a viable option for the foreseeable future. Trainees are always seen as a bit of an investment - which in these times, staying afloat is a priority.

Oh the thoughts of those flaming forms!!

Thanks for the lists of firms above - have to laugh, both in 2008 and 2007, I managed to forget one or two of the big firms, and really, with the odds that are out there, none of us can afford to miss one out!

Just for the record...this will be my third year applying!! (Saying that, I shouldn't really count this year, as I didn't send out a CV because of the recession and firms cutting staff numbers).

daviddob

Dante09 wrote: »

Arthur Cox have new application form up too, with a new website to boot.

if you secured the lucrative nama contract you would have a shiny new website too!!

legal eagle 1

Does anyone know if when you reapply to one of the major law firms, if they go back and look at your other applications to them as well??

dee8839

Beauchamps seem to just have a blank page when you click into trainees on their website. Some other leading firms (I'm actually going off a sheet Arthur Cox gave out at a uni presentation, showing who they are ahead of!) don't have any recruitment details, certainly no traineeship forms. Should I try just e-mailing a CV to the contact address listed or should I take it this means they're not hiring?

By the way - McCann Fitz - are they not hiring at all now? I don't see any application form up, it was up this time last year!

All I want this year is an interview, any interview, is that too much to ask?? If not I may be reduced to an accountancy job - hell on earth in my mind but I can't bear the thought of unemployment next year!

johnfás

dee8839 wrote: »

Beauchamps seem to just have a blank page when you click into trainees on their website. Some other leading firms (I'm actually going off a sheet Arthur Cox gave out at a uni presentation, showing who they are ahead of!) don't have any recruitment details, certainly no traineeship forms. Should I try just e-mailing a CV to the contact address listed or should I take it this means they're not hiring?

By the way - McCann Fitz - are they not hiring at all now? I don't see any application form up, it was up this time last year!

All I want this year is an interview, any interview, is that too much to ask?? If not I may be reduced to an accountancy job - hell on earth in my mind but I can't bear the thought of unemployment next year!

Beauchamps didn't take anyone on last year insofar as I remember. They had a trainee section on their website and then it disappeared again this time last year.

McCann's might put something up towards the end of the year though I note they have information about the 2010 internship up and maybe that is going to be their only means of recruitment.

legal eagle 1

I applied to Beauchamps last year but, I got letter back saying they weren't in a position to recruit anyone. McCann Fitzgerald are only going to recruit trainees through their summer internship programme from now on and details of their 2010 one will not be up until 2010.

Dante09

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

I applied to Beauchamps last year but, I got letter back saying they weren't in a position to recruit anyone. McCann Fitzgerald are only going to recruit trainees through their summer internship programme from now on and details of their 2010 one will not be up until 2010.

Lol! I applied to Beachamps last year too but i didnt get a reply like leagle eagles! Mine literally went along the lines of "the standard this year is very high and unfortunately your application isnt that good ... so PFO"
Eugene f. collins were the only firm honest enough last year to reply to my application saying that unfortunately they were not recruiting.

legal eagle 1

Lol! I applied to Beachamps last year too but i didnt get a reply like leagle eagles! Mine literally went along the lines of "the standard this year is very high and unfortunately your application isnt that good ... so PFO"

That is strange............they must not have even bothered considering me, hence saying they weren't recruiting :rolleyes:

Dante09

No Id say its most likely that (I literally got my letter from them 2 days after sending the application and I sent my applications way before most people) initially they were trying to cover up the fact that they weren't recruiting but when the applications started flooding in they probably decided that it was easier to just tell the truth.

Roscommonor

This may be slightly off the issue but just have a couple of questions?

1. When do the big firms stop accepting applications?

2. If you have until the end of 2010 to secure a training contract, does it count if you have signed a contract for 2011??

Appreciate any help:)

Irishlawgirl

Roscommonor wrote: »

This may be slightly off the issue but just have a couple of questions?

1. When do the big firms stop accepting applications? This should be on their websites - i.e. the deadline. As for the bigger firms that don't have application forms/deadlines - it's anyone's guess I think.

2. If you have until the end of 2010 to secure a training contract, does it count if you have signed a contract for 2011?? I doubt the law soc can say you've to repeat the fe1's if you still want to be eligible. Given the climate - I think that they're going to have to help but I think that some form of confirmation from them should be sought on this - i.e. giving an extension. Perhaps having your Indentures signed in 2010 may suffice even if you are not starting until 2011 - but i'm not sure how this would work as in do you have to pay your fees when you send in signed Indentures?

Appreciate any help:)

Hope the above helps.

legal eagle 1

Does anyone know of any large firms that are recruiting for intake in September 2010???

Jev/N

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Does anyone know of any large firms that are recruiting for intake in September 2010???

I would imagine they would....but in very limited circs e.g. where someone already contracted to start decides to postpone again or to cancel altogether

That would only be my observation though

Irishlawgirl

Not sure re the above - i'd say William Fry are - they don't usually hire two years in advance.

BCM Hanby are having their trainee open night tonight.

Arthur Cox

Roscommonor wrote: »

This may be slightly off the issue but just have a couple of questions?

1. When do the big firms stop accepting applications?

2. If you have until the end of 2010 to secure a training contract, does it count if you have signed a contract for 2011??

Appreciate any help:)

Hello. We are accepting applications which we receive on or before 30 October 2009. Best of luck.

legal eagle 1

Does anybody know if Ronan Daly Jermyn are recruiting this year? I've tried getting on to their career page on their website but, its not working for me

Arsenal1986

They seem to be still recruiting as far as website says anyhow

legal eagle 1

They seem to be still recruiting as far as website says anyhow

Thanks, do you by any chance know how you go about applying, is it by cv or application form?

Arsenal1986

App form i Believe

Irishlawgirl

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

App form i Believe

Just saw at the weekend - had their application form printed off ready to fill it in - but their deadline has been and gone! Had to laugh - just had to laugh!! Waited all year to fill these flaming things out - and I'd missed the deadline by days. Wonderful!

Arsenal1986

Really?!Where does it say that on the website?Dosn't say it on the trainee section or maybe I'm missing it ?

guerito

The Registration Form says that it must be returned by post or by email by 6 November.

Edit: Just received a reply from RJD to a query I had made about the TC application. The deadline definitely hasn't passed.

legal eagle 1

Ya i've just double checked my application form there too and it says the deadline is the 6th phew
Anyone have any inspiration for me on a commercial topic of significance recently (mops application :rolleyes: )

enry

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Ya i've just double checked my application form there too and it says the deadline is the 6th phew
Anyone have any inspiration for me on a commercial topic of significance recently (mops application :rolleyes: )

acc v. zoe.

legal eagle 1

acc v. zoe

enry

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

talk about the large volume of cases involving property disputes going before the commercial crt and the advantages of the commercial crt in resolving such disputes. please google zoe group. read order 63 a rule 1 and rule b of the superior crt rules.

legal eagle 1

Thanks a million Enry

Irishlawgirl

guerito wrote: »

The Registration Form says that it must be returned by post or by email by 6 November.

Edit: Just received a reply from RJD to a query I had made about the TC application. The deadline definitely hasn't passed.

Great to hear - maybe I downloaded last years because it definitely said it on the application form. (Think I have "Attention to detail" as one of my skills?!!) Thanks again for people double-checking.

brian__foley

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Ya i've just double checked my application form there too and it says the deadline is the 6th phew
Anyone have any inspiration for me on a commercial topic of significance recently (mops application :rolleyes: )

Just a tip...if you want to research a firm's practice, at the end of every Irish Report of a case, there will be the name of the firms involved. Obviously, the practice of many firms isn't perfectly represented by the cases they are involved in which are reported, but one can certainly gain a lot of knowledge about large cases a firm has been in this way and even cross referencing same with the information on the firm's site - sometimes the profiles will tell you which partner was involved in the case etc. I assume (but I don't know) its better to know about the firm you're applying for or being interviewed in this "deeper" sense.


Regards

B

Jev/N

enry wrote: »

acc v. zoe.

As a last resort, maybe; but that won't help you stand out from everyone else as most, if not all, will write on Zoe/NAMA

johnfás

Personally I wouldn't go for the ACC v Zoe case, it is not a seminal case. It was an important case on the basis that it had implications for the wider economy. However, did it have any legal importance? The answer is not alot, it was merely an example of the courts applying rules relating to Examinership as clearly mandated in the Companies Acts. Yes, it was an interesting case in regard to the money involved and the celebrity appeal, but personally I think one would stand out more choosing a case with implications on how a part of the law is changing or how a particular case is likely to change the practice of the law.

Last year, for instance, an interesting case was that of Fyffes v DCC as it was the first real case of insider trading on a public company to come before the Irish courts. The attitude of the courts was likely to decide the policies towards insider trading for a generation. The Fyffes case is probably too much at a remove from today to cite it as an example of changes in the law and thus not appropriate for forms this year, but it is an example of what was appropriate last year.

ACC v Zoe simply does not fit into that category, apart from the fact that two applications were made, which made it somewhat of a novel case. Applications for examinership are up before the courts every week, and apart from the significance of the huge sums of money and the novel factor of two applications, the process will be largely the same employed in ACC v Zoe.

They aren't looking for you to display the ability to pick up on the biggest news story of the year and replicate it on your form. They're looking at an ability to recognise what issues this year have an important impact on the law or the practice of the law.

But anyway... that is just my two cents.

brian__foley

johnfás wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't go for the ACC v Zoe case, it is not a seminal case. It was an important case on the basis that it had implications for the wider economy. However, did it have any legal importance? The answer is not alot, it was merely an example of the courts applying rules relating to Examinership as clearly mandated in the Companies Acts. Yes, it was an interesting case in regard to the money involved and the celebrity appeal, but personally I think one would stand out more choosing a case with implications on how a part of the law is changing or how a particular case is likely to change the practice of the law.

Last year, for instance, an interesting case was that of Fyffes v DCC as it was the first real case of insider trading on a public company to come before the Irish courts. The attitude of the courts was likely to decide the policies towards insider trading for a generation. The Fyffes case is probably too much at a remove from today to cite it as an example of changes in the law and thus not appropriate for forms this year, but it is an example of what was appropriate last year.

ACC v Zoe simply does not fit into that category, apart from the fact that two applications were made, which made it somewhat of a novel case. Applications for examinership are up before the courts every week, and apart from the significance of the huge sums of money and the novel factor of two applications, the process will be largely the same employed in ACC v Zoe.

They aren't looking for you to display the ability to pick up on the biggest news story of the year and replicate it on your form. They're looking at an ability to recognise what issues this year have an important impact on the law or the practice of the law.

But anyway... that is just my two cents.

Agreed 100%. People might get some use from www.lexology.com which brings together all the "bulletins" done by firms. Keeps one well on top of at least what the firms think are sufficiently important to write about in Ireland and UK. Comes to me via email very morning...at about 6 am!

Stuff like this - http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ad4ed556-1ef5-4677-9498-1d45e598fc74

Or

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ad4ed556-1ef5-4677-9498-1d45e598fc74

Sangre

A recent, supreme court case that has real, commercial impact or the intricacies of a complex legal problem? A commercial firm would, in my opinion, definitely prefer the former as law is all about real world application. Leave the subtleties and nuances to the academics and barristers. That being said Zoe is probably a bit too obvious.

The new land reform act 2009 could have a large impact on commercial property/transactions.