Glasgow V Munster. Fri. 04 Sept. 20:00

toomevara

Munster (25 Man Squad):

Marcus Horan, Tony Buckley, Julien Brugnaut, Denis Fogarty, Damien Varley, Mick O'Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan, Ian Nagle, Billy Holland, Tommy O'Donnell, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy, James Coughlan, Peter Stringer, Toby Morland, Jeremy Manning, Paul Warwick, Lifeimi Mafi, Tom Gleeson, Barry Murphy, Doug Howlett, Denis Hurley, Scott Deasy, Felix Jones, Danny Barnes.

Should be an interesting opener, with the Warriors coming off the back of a nice win against Wasps last weekend. Hope Warwicks foot's alright...also be interesting to see if Brugnaut gets a go...

PhatPiggins

Good to see some of the young guys who played well in the three preseason games stay in the squad.

+1 on the Warwick thing, can you imagine having Manning at 10 and Hurley at 15 ? Doesn't have the same appeal as a Warwick/Jones combo.

chupacabra

Delighted to see Danny Barnes in the squad as he is from my town.

buck65

Glasgow have had a good pre-season , winning 3 from 4 (losing to Clermont). Should be a tough game for Munster - especially with all the front liners missing til October.

PhatPiggins

buck65 wrote: »

Glasgow have had a good pre-season , winning 3 from 4 (losing to Clermont). Should be a tough game for Munster - especially with all the front liners missing til October.

In fairness Glasgow have always been a bit of a bogey team for us regardless of the strength of our team.

buck65

True, but we seemed to put that to bed last season winning home (narrowly) and away.

murphym7

Really looking forward to the game, I would be surprised if Munster do not win. I have them to win by 15 on sportsguru.

jamieh

buck65 wrote: »

Glasgow have had a good pre-season , winning 3 from 4 (losing to Clermont). Should be a tough game for Munster - especially with all the front liners missing til October.

Are the front liners defo out till October ya?

Going to a match in Thomond next week...was hoping it'd be a full strength side

buck65

Yes, the IRFU has directed the provinces to keep all the Lions players under wraps til Round 3 at least. So that rules out ROG, POC , DOC , Wally, Hayes (might be back sooner due to late involvement in tour) Earls. Also Flannery and O Leary out for another couple of weeks with injuries. Quinlan is still banned. de Villiers is arriving mid September but will probably be rested for a couple of weeks after a hectic Summer.
Most people feel they will not be unveiled until the Leinster game in early October and all be primed for the Treviso game on the 17th.
Still it gives the rest of the squad 3 competitive games to stake a claim.

2040

I'd like to see a Deasy/Mafi combination in the centre with Mafi at 13. I'm presuming he'll play at 13 when De Villiers arrives so it's best he gets used to the position as he hasn't played there in a while. Also, Deasy has been the best of the academy players in the pre-season imo.

I'd also like to see Manning at 10 and and Warwick on the bench. It's not worth risking Warwick if he's not 100% and Manning has done well in the preseason. Also, I wouldn't have any complaints if Hurley was put on the wing, although i'd prefer to see more of Barnes.

Glasgow are always dangerous and i'd imagine they'll up their game this year so it'll be a tough encounter.

I'm really really looking forward to this.

buck65

Don't rate Manning at all. Hope to see Warwick (if fit) get a few games at OH this year with a decent pack in front of him.

cruiserweight

Hmmm undecided about whether or not I will go to the game, I guess I will decide tomorrow

Amazotheamazing

Word is Warwick won't be fit so hopefully Manning will be both fit to play and able to show his preseason form. Big ask for him, but it'd be great for us if he did manage to step up.

Will be interesting to see who can make the 22 from the preseason team.

toomevara

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will be interesting to see who can make the 22 from the preseason team.

Going to be a fascinating game from that perspective. An interesting snapshot of the reds' strength in depth

Stev_o

Munster: F Jones; D Howlett, T Gleeson, L Mafi, D Hurley; J Manning, P Stringer; M Horan, D Fogarty, T Buckley; M O'Driscoll capt, D Ryan; B Holland, N Ronan, D Leamy. Replacements: D Varley, J Brugnaut, T O'Donnell, J Coughlan, T Morland, S Deasy, B Murphy.

Glasgow

15 Bernardo Stortoni

14 Rob Dewey
13 Peter Murchie
12 Graeme Morrison
11 Thom Evans

10 Dan Parks
9 Chris Cusiter

1 Jon Welsh
2 Dougie Hall
3 Moray Low
4 Tim Barker
5 Alastair Kellock
6 Kelly Brown
7 John Barclay
8 Johnnie Beattie

Substitutes
16 Pat MacArthur
17 Kevin Tkachuk
18 Dan Turner
19 Richie Vernon
20 Mark McMillan
21 Ruaridh Jackson
22 Colin Shaw

Should be a tight enough game judging things on paper.

buck65

Alot depends on the outhalf battle. On his day Parks kicks everything, off form Parks can miss easy ones. He has a massive boot that will drive Munster back all night but Glasgow may chose to have a cut at this weakened Munster team.
Manning has a lot to prove. It is one thing landing a few kicks in the preseason but can he get the backs moving and play the corners a la O Gara?
Warwick is a massive loss for us, I would reckon now Glasgow can probably stretch us enough to clinch this.

buck65

cruiserweight wrote: »

Hmmm undecided about whether or not I will go to the game, I guess I will decide tomorrow

Why wouldn't you go? You live in Glasgow right?

Amazotheamazing

buck65 wrote: »

I would reckon now Glasgow can probably stretch us enough to clinch this.

What an arrogant statement, of course Glasgow can stretch us, they can easily beat us too. They've caused plenty of hassle for us over the years, nearly beat us last year in the first game in Thomond, and have been improving over the past few seasons, think they won away in Toulouse last year?

It's a decent munster team considering who we're missing, I'd rather Barnes and Barry Murphy were starting but I think the wing could suit Hurley well enough.

premierstone

buck65 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you go? You live in Glasgow right?

He's not from Munster though!

ScrubsfanChris

15 - Felix Jones
14 - Doug Howlett
13 - Tom Gleeson
12 - Lifeimi Mafi
11 - Denis Hurley
10 - Jeremy Manning
9 - Peter Stringer

1 - Marcus Horan
2 - Denis Fogarty
3 - Tony Buckley
4 - Mick O'Driscoll capt
5 - Donnacha Ryan
6 - Billy Holland
7 - Niall Ronan
8 - Denis Leamy

On a lighter note, check out the hair :eek:

anonymous_joe

If a Munster fan ever has a crack about Leinster players and hair again that's being used as evidence. :pac:

Epic shít.

buck65

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

What an arrogant statement, of course Glasgow can stretch us, they can easily beat us too. They've caused plenty of hassle for us over the years, nearly beat us last year in the first game in Thomond, and have been improving over the past few seasons, think they won away in Toulouse last year?

It's a decent munster team considering who we're missing, I'd rather Barnes and Barry Murphy were starting but I think the wing could suit Hurley well enough.

Not arrogant, Glasgow beat Toulouse, got a big lead on them in the first half, great win but Toulouse were caught on the hop. They are a good side, that's why I said they could stretch us - relax man.

Amazotheamazing

buck65 wrote: »

Not arrogant, Glasgow beat Toulouse, got a big lead on them in the first half, great win but Toulouse were caught on the hop.

Pretty sure we've lost in Glasgow on two of our last three visits there?

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Pretty sure we've lost in Glasgow on two of our last three visits there?

Lots of teams have lost in Glasgow in recent seasons, they're a decent side imo. Personally I'd have Munster as slight favourites.

cruiserweight

buck65 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you go? You live in Glasgow right?

Mostly because I have a lot of work on atm and I am taking time off on Saturday to go to Hampden, I probably will go though

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

Lots of teams have lost in Glasgow in recent seasons, they're a decent side imo. Personally I'd have Munster as slight favourites.

I dunno, if Max Evans was back I'd have Glasgow as favourites, especially since Cuisster has signed. It could go either way, we've a good team out, but I don't think we can be so complacent as to say "Glasgow might stretch us", as though that is some sort of surprise.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I dunno, if Max Evans was back I'd have Glasgow as favourites, especially since Cuisster has signed. It could go either way, we've a good team out, but I don't think we can be so complacent as to say "Glasgow might stretch us", as though that is some sort of surprise.

Oh absolutely, Glasgow can definitely win it and I doubt the team will be as casual as some posters.

toomevara

I'd give Glasgow the edge. Reckon they'll win by 7-10.

2040

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's a decent munster team considering who we're missing, I'd rather Barnes and Barry Murphy were starting but I think the wing could suit Hurley well enough.

Hurley's full back days are well and truly over i'd say. I thought he was good on the wing in the churchill cup. I also liked the look of him against london irish a few weeks ago and he scored two tries against tigers so presumably he had a good game there too. I actually think a lot of the criticism of him is a bit harsh. He's not great or anything but he's not woeful. I'd really like to see more of Barnes though.

It'll be a tough match and even tougher to call.

Amazotheamazing

2040 wrote: »

Hurley's full back days are well and truly over i'd say. I thought he was good on the wing in the churchill cup. I also liked the look of him against london irish a few weeks ago and he scored two tries against tigers so presumably he had a good game there too. I actually think a lot of the criticism of him is a bit harsh. He's not great or anything but he's not woeful. I'd really like to see more of Barnes though.

It'll be a tough match and even tougher to call.

I suppose Hurley's on a full contract and Barnes is still in the Academy so the unpaid, semi pro guy would always lose out.

I think Hurley suffered by comparison to Payne and Cullen, both very solid at fullback for Munster (notwithstanding other issues with Cullen when he was here). It's also a position where slight mistakes can be magnified, and made look worse. He needs to rebuild his confidence and the wing may be the best place to do so.

2040

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think Hurley suffered by comparison to Payne and Cullen, both very solid at fullback for Munster (notwithstanding other issues with Cullen when he was here). It's also a position where slight mistakes can be magnified, and made look worse. He needs to rebuild his confidence and the wing may be the best place to do so.

Exactly. A few bad takes under the high ball and you're dead to the world.

On a side note, munsterrugby.ie has been revamped.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I suppose Hurley's on a full contract and Barnes is still in the Academy so the unpaid, semi pro guy would always lose out.

I think Hurley suffered by comparison to Payne and Cullen, both very solid at fullback for Munster (notwithstanding other issues with Cullen when he was here). It's also a position where slight mistakes can be magnified, and made look worse. He needs to rebuild his confidence and the wing may be the best place to do so.

Slight? To be fair he was basically non-existant under the high ball, if there was an opposition player competing for it you never ever felt Hurley would win the ball, and it's a very important ability for a 15. He has other attributes anyway and the wing might be more suitable as you said.

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

Slight? To be fair he was basically non-existant under the high ball, if there was an opposition player competing for it you never ever felt Hurley would win the ball, and it's a very important ability for a 15. He has other attributes anyway and the wing might be more suitable as you said.

Nah, that's overstating things abit, he had a few bad days but he's had good days under the high ball too.

It's an awful thing to visibly see a player lose confidence, as he did in the Ulster home match last year, but he bounced back the next weekend to do pretty well against the Ospreys, iirc. His biggest problem is the three guys ahead of him, Warwick, Earls and Jones, are very talented guys, though I don't Earls will play much at fullback this year, he's a centre, imo.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Nah, that's overstating things abit, he had a few bad days but he's had good days under the high ball too.

It's an awful thing to visibly see a player lose confidence, as he did in the Ulster home match last year, but he bounced back the next weekend to do pretty well against the Ospreys, iirc. His biggest problem is the three guys ahead of him, Warwick, Earls and Jones, are very talented guys, though I don't Earls will play much at fullback this year, he's a centre, imo.

If Hurley has put in any strong performances under the high ball I haven't seen them.

Re. Earls, you think he'll be playing centre this season? I would have thought the signing of JdV a clear indication he'll move into the back 3. Can't see Mafi being dropped.

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

If Hurley has put in any strong performances under the high ball I haven't seen them.

Re. Earls, you think he'll be playing centre this season? I would have thought the signing of JdV a clear indication he'll move into the back 3. Can't see Mafi being dropped.

Well strong might be over-stating it, he rarely "attacks" a high ball like Kearney would, but competent would be a fairer way of saying it.

Hard to know who we'll play and where, but Earls isn't a natural fullback and McGahan knows this, we wouldn't have bothered signing Jones if we thought Earls was the long term solution there, why bother? We have enough cover at fullback in Deasy, Hurley and Warwick if we needed cover, if Earls was expected to play there.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Well strong might be over-stating it, he rarely "attacks" a high ball like Kearney would, but competent would be a fairer way of saying it.

Hard to know who we'll play and where, but Earls isn't a natural fullback and McGahan knows this, we wouldn't have bothered signing Jones if we thought Earls was the long term solution there, why bother? We have enough cover at fullback in Deasy, Hurley and Warwick if we needed cover, if Earls was expected to play there.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Hurley, I don't think he's competent under the high ball.

Munster took a bit of a punt on Jones, you have to remember he'd played 40 minutes of professional rugby when Munster signed him and there's no guarantee he'd make it. Hurley isn't good enough to play FB for a top level European team in my opinion (and it seems McGahan agrees), and Deasy I don't know a huge amount about but it's still fair to say he's unproven. On top of it all bringing in Jones has added to squad depth which is always a good thing. It's much easier to leave out one of Jones, Deasy or Hurley than it is JdV or Mafi.

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on Hurley, I don't think he's competent under the high ball.

Munster took a bit of a punt on Jones, you have to remember he'd played 40 minutes of professional rugby when Munster signed him and there's no guarantee he'd make it. Hurley isn't good enough to play FB for a top level European team in my opinion (and it seems McGahan agrees), and Deasy I don't know a huge amount about but it's still fair to say he's unproven. On top of it all bringing in Jones has added to squad depth which is always a good thing. It's much easier to leave out one of Jones, Deasy or Hurley than it is JdV or Mafi.

Dowling probably isn't good enough to play for a top team either but we've managed. I'm not under any illusions, I don't think he's a future Lion or anything, but hopefully he can attain Payne like consistency.

Jones may or may not make it, but Munster have been looking for a fullback for sometime, afaik.

riskyOz

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Dowling probably isn't good enough to play for a top team either but we've managed. I'm not under any illusions, I don't think he's a future Lion or anything, but hopefully he can attain Payne like consistency.

Jones may or may not make it, but Munster have been looking for a fullback for sometime, afaik.

I think Dowling is very under-rated. He incredible at making yards while being tackled. He does lack pace of a international winger but it would be very harsh if he was dropped with JDV coming.
I just dont rate Hurley tbh but its no harm playing him in the ML

buck65

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I dunno, if Max Evans was back I'd have Glasgow as favourites, especially since Cuisster has signed. It could go either way, we've a good team out, but I don't think we can be so complacent as to say "Glasgow might stretch us", as though that is some sort of surprise.

I said Glasgow could stretch us enough to clinch this one, where is the so-called surprise and complacency in my statement? Did I say something like I would be surprised if Glasgow clinched it? No I predicted that Glasgow could win the game narrowly.

anonymous_joe

riskyOz wrote: »

I think Dowling is very under-rated. He incredible at making yards while being tackled. He does lack pace of a international winger but it would be very harsh if he was dropped with JDV coming.
I just dont rate Hurley tbh but its no harm playing him in the ML

It's not that Dowling's underrated, it's just impossible to find something to overrate about him.

He's got everything a winger needs but for pace. He's decent under the high ball, his defensive work is excellent, he's hard to tackle, he runs ok lines... And so on. He's just not ever going to be fast enough to capitalise on his own talents.

And, in fairness, while wingers have never been something Ireland's ever produced (lots of full backs, never a winger) we still have plenty who are better than Dowling. To start for any of the three good teams (and often enough Connacht too) in Ireland you have to be very good - Dowling's just the worst of all the starting wingers in Ireland. There's no shame in that, and it doesn't make him bad at all. Just not as good.

I'd be of the opinion that Munster can win this game, but Glasgow are not an easy team to play. The Scottish teams can be very very good. I would also say that if Munster float over with the more cocky outlook of some fans they'll be spanked. They're better than Glasgow, no doubts, but away, it's definitely not an easy game.

zenmonk

anonymous_joe wrote: »

. I would also say that if Munster float over with the more cocky outlook of some fans they'll be spanked. They're better than Glasgow, no doubts, but away, it's definitely not an easy game.

Where is there any sign of this complacency?

anonymous_joe

zenmonk wrote: »

Where is there any sign of this complacency?

Few posts in this topic alone for one.

I'm bloody nervous about the Leinster Scarlets game, for similar reasons I'd be worried Munster could lose to Glasgow. Irish teams have won a lot, we know they're great, lots of Lions, blah blah blah. It can lead to a degree of cockiness.

wixfjord

Aye I agree with you there Joe, the last thing Irish rugby needs now is complacency. This Glasgow team are no mugs, they pushed Munster last season at Firhill, and but for Parks terrible kicking and Ronan having a stormer, could have won, against a better Munster team than this iirc. I wouldnt be surprised if both Leinster and Munster lost this weekend, hope not though.

GiftofGab

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I dunno, if Max Evans was back I'd have Glasgow as favourites, especially since Cuisster has signed..

When is he back?

Amabokke

Jeremy Manning, did he not play for Cork Constitute in the finals this year? He played well until he picked up the injury into second half.

Munster front row slow in the scrums to bind, clearly feel the pressure and don't like to scrum.

Munster defence is doing rush and not drift defence, Glasgow have overlap everytime.

Amabokke

Complete accident, unfortunet. Good play for the ball from both players.

trout

Glasgow forwards are doing well ... that was a good maul

Stev_o

Munster's scrum is woefull, time must be called on Buckley by now.

jop

Amabokke wrote: »

Complete accident, unfortunet. Good play for the ball from both players.

very like the collision o gara had in the lions game

trout

Bad knock on there from Parks

Munster need a good scrum now ... good time to score. They have to keep Glasgow out.

jop

Stev_o wrote: »

Munster's scrum is woefull, time must be called on Buckley by now.

is he not playing ?