BBC HD quality

snaps

Recently Ive noticed BBC HD seems to be not as sharp and clear as it used to be?

Is it being upscaled now?

Tonight's coast is not as stunning as normal. Perhaps its a one off or just me.

celticfc

Nope, BBC HD has cut their bitrate by 40% in the past few weeks. IIRC it was 16Mbps and now 9 Mbps.

It's having a very noticeable effect on PQ.

The word is that it is about trying to make room for C4HD on Astra 2D but who knows, it's all specualtion. I would prefer quality rather that quantity.

enfant terrible

I got it when it launched and the preview clip montage they showed was the best hd i've seen.

Think the bitrates then were 20mpbs and above.

delsutton2008

It's definitely worse than it was a few weeks ago. I've been away a while and it was immediately obvious when I switched on at the weekend that the quality was down. That vibrancy and depth of image has gone. Luxe HD seems better than BBC HD now.

Of course, not everyone can tell the difference, I guess, and perhaps that's why the BBC has done it... they may say that most people cannot perceive the change. I have friends of mine who can't see what all the HD fuss is about. I showed them BBC HD on my 40" set a couple of months ago when some programme was being broadcast simultaneously on BBC2 and, flicking between the two, they could not see any difference! :eek:

But, personally, I feel a bit cheated really, as the main reason I opted for Freesat was that I was seduced by the BBC HD image quality. Hopefully if enough people complain to them (and I have, and as a BBC licence payer at least it will go on the pile :rolleyes:) they might go back to the original PQ.

Popeleo

Oh good - I thought it was just my eyes playing tricks. I've definitely noticed a reduction in quality on BBCHD recently.

Zonda999

delsutton2008 wrote: »

Luxe HD seems better than BBC HD now.
.

Pity all they show is a load of rubbish. Very disappointing about bbc hd though. What bitrate is itv hd out of interest?

snaps

Perhaps ill email them later. You possibly wouldnt notice the difference on a smallish screen, But if you have a 42"+ screen you certainly do!

delsutton2008

snaps wrote: »

Perhaps ill email them later. You possibly wouldnt notice the difference on a smallish screen, But if you have a 42"+ screen you certainly do!

Surely make that 40"

John mac

hd bit rates which are taken from here



.

Zonda999

John mac wrote: »

hd bit rates which are taken from here



.

Thanks,thats useful for sure.

Odd though, some people are saying they are disappointed with ESPN HD but it actually has a higher bitrate than any of the SkySports HD channels. Is there more to PQ than bitrate?

Wouldnt have though either that Eurosport-HD has the highest bitrate

snaps

Itv HD today for the England match is not as sharp either? Whats the point of broadcasting in HD and not having the HD quality?

strongman

What frequency is ITV1 HD on.

Leprechaun77

The quality is average on ITV HD today. I have seen it much better.

elsie1b

celticfc wrote: »

Nope, BBC HD has cut their bitrate by 40% in the past few weeks. IIRC it was 16Mbps and now 9 Mbps.

It's having a very noticeable effect on PQ.

The word is that it is about trying to make room for C4HD on Astra 2D but who knows, it's all specualtion. I would prefer quality rather that quantity.

From what I've read on other forums , BBC HD and ITV HD will share the same transponder as and when ITV HD becomes a proper channel and not just a red button feature.
The loss in picture quality is supposed to be offset by new encoders.

John mac

strongman wrote: »

What frequency is ITV1 HD on.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055520627

ScrubsfanChris

It looks like Eurosport HD has the best PQ, can anyone back this up?

byte

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

It looks like Eurosport HD has the best PQ, can anyone back this up?

It's good when they have HD content on. They seem to have a "Native HD" DOG in bottom right corner whenever they're showing HD pictures.

Ed_

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

It looks like Eurosport HD has the best PQ, can anyone back this up?

I think MTV HD has a great picture when they show High Definition content.

strongman

@ John mac
Thanks for the info.

snaps

Strickly come dancing is stunning tonight on BBCHD! And im not talking about the women:D

Ed_

I watched Jonathan Ross last night on BBC HD and granted it was better than what it would look like on BBC One but still nothing close to what you see on the Sky Sports HD channels.

SRB

Am glad to see this thread - thought it was my imagination, but the other night the Tudors on BBC HD looked worse to me than the recording I still had sitting on the PVR from TV3 DTT earlier in the year, given TV3's was obviously SD that doesn't bode well for the future of BBC HD !!!

evilivor

Last weeks' beeb response.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/09/picture_quality_on_hd_a_respon.html

Picture Quality on BBC HD: a response from BBC.

There was an extensive process of assessment in advance of the selection of new encoders for the BBC HD service, using both objective and subjective criteria. The encoders which were chosen then went through further testing in advance of operational use, not only for picture quality but for compatibility with the Sky and Freesat platforms and their ability to deliver other services such as subtitling and surround sound successfully.

The new encoders were intended to help us in handling the wide range of material which the BBC broadcasts in HD, and to help to improve the picture quality of some of our most challenging programmes. These may combine progressive and interlaced shooting or where the BBC has limited control over some aspects of the broadcast chain. I believe that the new encoders have achieved this in relation to programmes such as the series of BBC Proms broadcast, Gardeners' World, Rick Stein's Mediterranean Escapes and the recent Athletics World Championships, for which our coverage using the host broadcaster feed was as good as and sometimes better than other broadcasters covering the same event. However we of course continue to assess coder settings against the wide range of material which they have to handle to determine the best settings on an ongoing basis.

Following the introduction of the new encoders, there were some issues around the handling of some pictures - primarily mixes and fades - which we acknowledged through the BBC HD blog on picture quality almost immediately. We have worked with our encoder supplier to address these issues in the long-term, and also put in place interim changes to minimise the difficulties. That the encoder change should generate problems for viewers watching BBC HD content is of course a matter for regret, but I do not believe that this was the result of errors in the preparation process.

You have also highlighted the issue of the bit-rate at which BBC HD broadcasts, and the changes to this over time. I do not believe that the problems that arose following the introduction of the new encoders had anything to do with the broadcast bit-rate, even though they coincided, as you have rightly identified, with a reduction in bit-rate for the channel.

One of the central issues in selecting new encoders for BBC HD was to deliver pictures at the same or improved quality while allowing a reduction in the channel bit-rate. As MPEG 4 coders have evolved, the relationship between bit-rate and picture quality has also shifted. This is not an issue that is specific to BBC HD, or to the encoders that we have selected.

The BBC has an absolute responsibility to use bandwidth efficiently - whether on digital terrestrial muxes or on satellite. Bandwidth is not unlimited, and on UK-footprint transponders the demand for capacity is very high. The current bit-rates were selected through a process which directly evaluated quality on the new and old encoders, using a wide range of programme material and both subjective and objective assessments.

Bit-rate is not the only factor affecting picture quality and a higher bit-rate will not automatically deliver higher picture quality.

HD is still an evolving production technology. A variety of production techniques are - in my view quite rightly - deployed as experimentation continues to explore what HD can delivery creatively.

As in standard definition, it is also important that HD delivers a range of "looks" for producers, appropriate to the nature of the subject matter. I do not prescribe a single standard for HD work for the BBC. Decisions regarding frame rate and progressive versus interlaced styles are the responsibility of individual producers. These choices do not impact on quality provided that the camera is set up properly and the shutter speed set correctly, issues on which the BBC HD team provides ongoing advice and guidance. As the discussion on the BBC HD blog suggests, there is a range of views around these issues, and the degradation or quality they may bring to HD pictures. It is worth noting that 25 frames progressive mode in fact has more resolution than a 25 frame interlace image, and is used by the majority of drama, documentary and natural history programmes to great effect.

While very clear, sharp images have become closely associated with HD, it is important not to confuse "sharpness" with resolution. The use of electronic sharpening on standard definition pictures can make images clearer but does not increase the amount of information in the picture, one of the defining features of HD.

Electronic sharpening is not a characteristic which BBC HD encourages since we prefer images to look more natural, and to allow directors to offer contrasting focus in order to highlight the key features in a scene. Indeed, some of our dramas are now using the latest large image format cameras.These cameras use an image sensor about the same physical size as a 35mm film frame that gives the image a very shallow depth of field. This will put all but the key subject out of focus and allows a director to use focus as a story telling tool.

HD picture quality is not purely about a crispness of image, but about a richness of image which comes from the amount of detailed information included.

Within the BBC HD team we work consistently to explore new HD technology with a particular view to enhancing picture quality across the range of programme projects with which we are involved. Filming in certain environments or using small cameras remains challenging, and where it is not possible to deliver HD pictures to the standards we set, we limit the use of lower quality images to a maximum of 25% of an individual title.