Question about Firearm Cert

friedcircuits

Hey all again finally got my cert yesterday! question- where it says about "conditions" it says in bold type "none" what does this mean for me and i didn't specify ammo what is the default?
thanks.

Cass

friedcircuits wrote: »

Hey all again finally got my cert yesterday! question- where it says about "conditions" it says in bold type "none" what does this mean for me and i didn't specify ammo what is the default?
thanks.

Quick question (or 3). Did you get an old style paper certificate? Was it an amendment? If not how did you get an old paper licence?

BornToKill

friedcircuits wrote: »

Hey all again finally got my cert yesterday! question- where it says about "conditions" it says in bold type "none" what does this mean for me and i didn't specify ammo what is the default?
thanks.

What date is on your cert friedcircuits?

friedcircuits

its dated 27 Aug 09 valid untill 30/06/10 fee 38euro so i presume the old one?

BornToKill

You shouldn't have a one year cert for the 2009/10 year. They cannot be issued from the Garda computer system. You should instead be waiting now for a three year cert to be issued next month. The fact that you actually have one almost certainly means that it is 'homemade' by an enterprising Garda who meant well but hadn't fully grasped the changeover was happening.

A very good explanation about how the conditions work can be found here but a bigger concern now will be to get your cert fixed. You need to get an extension like everyone else so that you can be brought into the three year licensing. I think you need to go back to the station or if you are in the NARGC or another shooting body explain your situation to them and they'll get it fixed through the FPU in the Guards.

friedcircuits

i'm not member of a gun club.i have to go through all that crap again of applying and waiting? will the fact i got this cert help? i applied for this one mid may 09 and just got cert yesterday (monday)!!

fat-tony

friedcircuits wrote: »

its dated 27 Aug 09 valid untill 30/06/10 fee 38euro so i presume the old one?

Mmmmm - conspiracy theory brewing in my mind:rolleyes:
1. Pulse system is not actually ready for the three-year licence.
2. Plastic card system not quite ready yet.
3. Post Office payment procedure not quite ready either.

friedcircuits

so should i go ahead and buy my rifle and let the gaurds worry about it or what?!

fat-tony

Technically the Gardaí should not have issued you with a paper licence, because the existing licences were extended to a month end between October this year to June next year. But because the new systems are not ready (see my previous post) I suspect you got an interim, made-up solution:). If the licence was signed by the Superintendent (as it should be), then I would think you should be ok. If you wanted to be sure I would suggest you get your Firearms Officer to get you a note from the Super, stating that this is covering you until you apply for a three year licence next June.

friedcircuits

Ok. It is signed and stamped and all that. Who could I ring to sort this out as its driving me nuts and I've been waiting for 3 months for it!! thanks

fat-tony

Just get in touch with the station and ask them to verify that it's ok for you to go ahead and purchase the rifle. After all, you have been issued with the cert. It's not in your interest to "rock the boat" such that the Super then cancels or withdraws the licence. Just check that they haven't made a mistake;)

rrpc

Just to add that technically, a one year licence is no longer 'legal tender' and the new currency is for three years only.

THis sounds like a 'Wicklow' licence

foxhunter

friedcircuits wrote: »

Ok. It is signed and stamped and all that. Who could I ring to sort this out as its driving me nuts and I've been waiting for 3 months for it!! thanks

You have a licence if it's stamped with an official stamp and signed by the super or significant other then go and pick up your rifle .

Sam I Am

friedcircuits wrote: »

i applied for this one mid may 09

So they dealt with it within the 3 months (ish) they've now been given to decide on a licence. But the application started being processed before the new system was in place (is it in place yet ).

friedcircuits wrote: »

its dated 27 Aug 09 valid untill 30/06/10 fee 38euro so i presume the old one?

No existing licence for the gun as it's a new application and purchase, so they couldn't issue an extension. So the only solution was to issue a licence of a type that was in place at the time of application. It is valid until the last of the new extensions, so friedcircuits is being brought into line with the last batch of new licences without having to wait until they are ready to issue the new licences, November 1st at the earliest.

It seems like a reasonable work around to me. We'll probably find a few others ending up in the same situation if they applied for a new licence around the same time.

JMHO

rrpc

The €38 fee shouldn't be charged either as the new fees order came in on August 1st.

I can see what they're trying to do, but it's all wrong. By rights, they should have issued a three year licence.

The best solution, which really should have been done was to have the Super issue a permit under Section 2(3)(a) of the Firearms Act.

He could do that for any period of time and so allow for the new system to come on stream.

Cass

Sam I am and rrpc have it right. They should have suspended the application to coincide with the new 3 three year licencing system. However, as i read it, its a new application and at the bottom of the pile of re-applications hence the 30/6/10 expiry date on the issued licence. If it was an old style full licence it would last till 31/7/10 as it stands its only till end of June so it acts as an extension and a licence.

My advice Fred is go ahead and get your rifle. You have a valid and legally issued licence so there is nothing to stop you. Simply get the new FCA1 and apply 3 monthe prior to the expiry of the licence you have.

Tackleberry.

ezridax wrote: »

Sam I am and rrpc have it right. They should have suspended the application to coincide with the new 3 three year licencing system. However, as i read it, its a new application and at the bottom of the pile of re-applications hence the 30/6/10 expiry date on the issued licence. If it was an old style full licence it would last till 31/7/10 as it stands its only till end of June so it acts as an extension and a licence.

My advice Fred is go ahead and get your rifle. You have a valid and legally issued licence so there is nothing to stop you. Simply get the new FCA1 and apply 3 monthe prior to the expiry of the licence you have.

Hi my mate bought my rifle from me back in April, he only lately got his licence which was the old one for 38 euro but at the same time different envelope a extension letter till april next year.Reckon they are clearing all the old PC20 forms the old way.

Cass

Reckon they are clearing all the old PC20 forms the old way.

+1

Clearing out the old applications. Your mate got the extension though and as i read it fredcircuits didn't. Not to say he won't but if he has the licence (old or not) he is legally licenced to own and use the rifle therefore he can go ahead and get his rifle. He may still get an extension later on. Seen as how he only got the licence his name will go back into the system to be issued with an extension. If he hasn't receved one in the next month or so i check it out but for now get the rifle and enjoy.

BornToKill

ezridax wrote: »

if he has the licence (old or not) he is legally licenced to own and use the rifle

I wouldn't be sure about that. There is no provision in law for a one year licence and the Super has acted ultra vires in issuing it. It's not a legal licence.

Sikamick

All existing firearms licence holders will not now be required to renew their licences on form PC20 and instead will be required to apply under the new legislation - on the new application form FCA1 - following the expiry of their extended licences.

Sikamick

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure about that. There is no provision in law for a one year licence and the Super has acted ultra vires in issuing it. It's not a legal licence.

I agree, it's not an extension as they are only issued by the Commissioner, it's not a licence because the one year licence is a dead duck and the fee is also not legal either.

The Super is perfectly entitled to issue a licence, but it has to be in the prescribed form (we're not sure what that is any more), for the prescribed period (three years) and for the prescribed fee (€80).

Really a 2(3)(a) permit is the way to go and would keep everything straight until the new system is up and running. The background recording and pulsing and everything else that goes on in the bowels of the clockwork computer can churn merrily away until everything is hunky dory, but making up licences on pieces of paper won't really cut it.

They may as well get out the old 'green forms' if they want

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

All existing firearms licence holders will not now be required to renew their licences on form PC20 and instead will be required to apply under the new legislation - on the new application form FCA1 - following the expiry of their extended licences.

Sikamick

All well and good and right Mick, but this guy applied prior to the 1st August and is in Limbo.

westwicklow

rrpc wrote: »

THis sounds like a 'Wicklow' licence

Explain please?

Sikamick

friedcircuits make an appointment with the superintendent and point out the problem you have and the situation you are left in.

Sikamick

rrpc

westwicklow wrote: »

Explain please?

Everyone in the Wicklow district with a pistol licence got a 'special' cert this year that no-one else got. Very pretty with lots of writing and conditions and stuff :pac:

They'll be collectors items I'm sure

killalanerr

hi guys
just put in my form about a week ago now im been told i will have to do it again as the form has been changed ,any one have any info on this

rrpc

killalanerr wrote: »

hi guys
just put in my form about a week ago now im been told i will have to do it again as the form has been changed ,any one have any info on this

We're talking about the FCA1 form right? Because I've just checked the Garda website and the form that's there is still the same one; file dated 31st July 2009.

killalanerr

rrpc wrote: »

We're talking about the FCA1 form right? Because I've just checked the Garda website and the form that's there is still the same one; file dated 31st July 2009.

yes thats the one i they had it at our club meeting tonight that it is been amended to take in game club membership for unlit shotgun lic

foxshooter243

killalanerr wrote: »

yes thats the one i they had it at our club meeting tonight that it is been amended to take in game club membership for unlit shotgun lic

:eek::eek::eek::( -hope your wrong cos mines were ready for handing in

Cass

BornToKill wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure about that. There is no provision in law for a one year licence and the Super has acted ultra vires in issuing it. It's not a legal licence.

How can you be sure. It's issue date is 27/8/09 not 1/8/09 and the end date is 30/6/10 not 31/7/10. So it does not follow the standard guidlelines even for the old licensing system. He has gotten a ten month licence/extension. What is to say the Super did not clear/check with Dublin prior to issue. I mean the letter/licence/extension had to come from Dublin (unless the super wrote it on the back of a match box) as do all licences or extensions. The Super gives his thumbs up or down for the application but Dublin print the paperwork. Am i right or wrong.

I hear what people are saying about being cautious but if he provides thie licence to the dealer or was ever stopped with the firearm what would happen. He shows the Garda a licence issued by a Superintendent. Who would argue with that. Say what you like about common sense but if a Super hands me a licence i'm taking it for granted that this man has gone through the proper channels and issued me with a legal licence. If not then the Super will have left himself wide open for alot of trouble.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

How can you be sure. It's issue date is 27/8/09 not 1/8/09 and the end date is 30/6/10 not 31/7/10. So it does not follow the standard guidlelines even for the old licensing system. He has gotten a ten month licence/extension. What is to say the Super did not clear/check with Dublin prior to issue. I mean the letter/licence/extension had to come from Dublin (unless the super wrote it on the back of a match box) as do all licences or extensions. The Super gives his thumbs up or down for the application but Dublin print the paperwork. Am i right or wrong.

Only the Commissioner can issue extensions:

The Commissioner shall notify each holder of a relevant firearm certificate of the new date of expiry for that certificate determined under this section and shall invite each such holder to apply in due course under this section (as substituted by section 30 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006) for a new 3 year firearm certificate within a prescribed timeframe before the new date of expiry.

Perhaps if the OP was to scan his 'licence' blocking out the personal stuff, we could have a look at it.

rrpc

killalanerr wrote: »

yes thats the one i they had it at our club meeting tonight that it is been amended to take in game club membership for unlit shotgun lic

The FCA1 form on the Garda website has not been changed, it's the same version number as the one that appeared on day one. There's also no change with regard to game club membership.

What has changed is the FAQ and the changes there include an instruction as to what to do if you are a member of a game club. They tell you to put the details on a seperate piece of paper. If you've already submitted your aplication, drop into your Garda Station and ask them do they want that info now and have it prepared beforehand.

You shouldn't need to submit new forms because they are still the same.

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

Only the Commissioner can issue extensions

True, but from the descriptions supplied by Fredcircuits its sounds like the old style licence.

Perhaps if the OP was to scan his 'licence' blocking out the personal stuff, we could have a look at it.

best solution. We'd be here till the cows come home debating what ifs and probably. Best to get a look at it and see exactly what it is. Well Fred, any chance you could block out the personal details then post a copy of it here to have a look at.

BornToKill

ezridax wrote: »

Well Fred, any chance you could block out the personal details then post a copy of it here to have a look at.

Think it is friedcircuits rather than Fred Circuits. He'll never scan it if we make fun of him.:)

Although you rightly say it sounds like an old style licence - it cannot be a proper old style licence since there is no way to issue them since 31 July 2009. There are no more one year licences.

Cass

BornToKill wrote: »

Think it is friedcircuits rather than Fred Circuits........

Old mac donald was dyslexic, a, e, a, e, o.

Although you rightly say it sound like an old style licence - it cannot be a proper old style licence since there is no way to issue them since 31 July 2009. There are no more one year licences.

Exactly. its not even for a full year so it doesn't even fall into the old licence catergory.