anyone havin trouble find job this year

gitterbug

hey all

was jst wonderin is there anyone else out there havin trouble findin a job this year? i teach maths and am looking for something in midlands! ive sent out loads of cvs and i still havent even had a reply or been shortlisted!

gettin a bit stressed out now...........

maynooth_rules

Yes me:(. Im a History and Geography teacher. Completed my Dip in 2008 and have experience in 4 different schools. But still can't get anything. Sent my CV to every possible available job and only got one interview. And they never even got back to me which makes me incredibly angry. Im at my wits end as i don't know what to do.
Last year i was in the same situation at this time but i got substitute work which eventually became steady work throughout the year. With the cutbacks i wont even get that this year:(

kt217

job what job where is it and who do i kill for it:)

boogle

Me too, qualified in 2007. Had a job for the full year last year but was let go. Haven't had so much as a sniff this year. It's actually getting me down a lot I've went around to all schools in my area personally, I've sent cvs to every job advertised and nothing. Last week I started applying for other jobs aswell. Please god don't let me end up back in a boring office job

oliviah

Same here. I've lots of experience, I'm qualified a few years now and nothing. Not even an interview. I've only had a handful of rejection letters and I've sent out more CVs then there are schools (feels like!!). The schools must be swamped by applications.

peewee18988

Hey

I've just finished the dip, registered with the TC as science and math teacher. A billion cvs, few responses, two interviews, no job!!
Really losin hope now as some of my friends are back at their staff meetings today. There seems to be loads of people in the same boat though.

Anyway, apparently there are retirements to come in October so I'm thinkin bout makin sambos in spar until then (hell). :mad:

gogsy

If I see another rejection letter, I may cry!!

Primary teaching positions are becoming soooo hard to get.

Nead21

qualified in 2007, 2 years teaching experience, 3 years working previously, a million jobs applied for, 1 interview....no job

taking to the bed!!

maynooth_rules

Really seems to be the subject choices that are affecting people. I have 2 friends, one a Spanish teacher, the other Irish and Music, and they both walked into a job despite only having the one year teaching experience in the Dip.

gogsy

Nead21 wrote: »

qualified in 2007, 2 years teaching experience, 3 years working previously, a million jobs applied for, 1 interview....no job

taking to the bed!!

The bed is not our friend...


says the girl who just got up!

gaeilgebeo

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Really seems to be the subject choices that are affecting people. I have 2 friends, one a Spanish teacher, the other Irish and Music, and they both walked into a job despite only having the one year teaching experience in the Dip.

It is depending on subjects. My sister is only just finished her degree and has no dip or experience. She has a 22hour contract for the year and started back today. Irish is her subject.

Miss Lockhart

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

It is depending on subjects. My sister is only just finished her degree and has no dip or experience. She has a 22hour contract for the year and started back today. Irish is her subject.

Subjects will definitely play a part - but I think there can element of (bad) luck involved also.

We have had two fully qualified Irish teachers on pro rata contracts let go for this year. This means other teachers will inevitably be teaching first year Irish even though it's not their subject, as we only have 3 other Irish teachers in a school of more than 700 students.

Rosita

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Subjects will definitely play a part - but I think there can element of (bad) luck involved also.

We have had two fully qualified Irish teachers on pro rata contracts let go for this year. This means other teachers will inevitably be teaching first year Irish even though it's not their subject, as we only have 3 other Irish teachers in a school of more than 700 students.

This makes more sense to me that a lot of the yarns I have been reading about Irish teachers.

The school I am doing TP in appears to have no shortage of Irish teachers when compared to other subjects, and one girl is in doing maternity leave for another Irish teacher. If the general talk is to be believed the girl who's in to teach Irish should have a job already elsewhere - "they are crying out" etc. etc.

I also read here recently of a few Irish graduates subbing in Primary schools.

I say all this as an Irish teacher - or potential one - myself.

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

It is depending on subjects. My sister is only just finished her degree and has no dip or experience. She has a 22hour contract for the year and started back today. Irish is her subject.

In fairness this kind of thing brings the whole system into disrepute.

spurious

A lot of it is being in the right place.
Our school looked for a second HE teacher for four years, couldn't get one.
Tried for a second woodwork teacher, no joy. Ended up having to use both specialist rooms as general rooms.

Meanwhile there were apparently lots of HE teachers looking for work, just not where we are, or perhaps no one wanted to work in our school.

gaeilgebeo

Rosita wrote: »

In fairness this kind of thing brings the whole system into disrepute.

If you read the post above this you will see a reason that someone without the dip got a job. Its hardly bringing the profession into disripute if a school cant find an alternitive or someone suitable. Believe me there is truth to the "yarns" you hear about irish teachers and you will learn this when you start teaching irish.

genieinabottle

science teacher, one interview and no job..... I'm DEPRESSED...

Thinking about england but im not sure.... :mad:

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

If you read the post above this you will see a reason that someone without the dip got a job. Its hardly bringing the profession into disripute if a school cant find an alternitive or someone suitable. Believe me there is truth to the "yarns" you hear about irish teachers and you will learn this when you start teaching irish.

I said that this brings the whole system (of recruiting and appointing teachers) into disrepute. How the school should behave or how an unqualified job applicant should behave in the circumstances is quite another matter.

But in terms of what it says about the system, this certainly impugns it big-time.

Eccles

Gaeilgebeo what do you mean by 'yarns'?Irish teachers who arent great Irish speakers?

gaeilgebeo

Eccles wrote: »

Gaeilgebeo what do you mean by 'yarns'?Irish teachers who arent great Irish speakers?

I was quoting another poster who didn't buy into all the "yarns" that their was a demand for irish teachers. I still believe that there is.

gaeilgebeo

Rosita wrote: »

I said that this brings the whole system (of recruiting and appointing teachers) into disrepute. How the school should behave or how an unqualified job applicant should behave in the circumstances is quite another matter.

But in terms of what it says about the system, this certainly impugns it big-time.

Well if thats the case, the system has never been reputable!

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Well if thats the case, the system has never been reputable!

Of course the system is not reputable. The system is not to use the pharse du jour "fit for purpose", if (and we can argue the size of this "if"), it is unable to recruit teachers efficiently where they are needed and is over-recruiting where they are not. The case in point merely highlights that issue.

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I was quoting another poster who didn't buy into all the "yarns" that their was a demand for irish teachers. I still believe that there is.

I didn't say there was not a demand for Irish teachers - I simply am not sure. Empirically I have found that the demand might be exaggerated is all I am saying, because some of what I see does not add up to some of what I read here. I am working off albeit very limited evidence and would doff my cap to the opinion of anyone who had broad experience in the area and can speak with authority on that basis.

This is what I wrote:

The school I am doing TP in appears to have no shortage of Irish teachers when compared to other subjects, and one girl is in doing maternity leave for another Irish teacher. If the general talk is to be believed the girl who's in to teach Irish should have a job already elsewhere - "they are crying out" etc. etc.

I also read here recently of a few Irish graduates subbing in Primary schools.

gaeilgebeo

Rosita wrote: »

I didn't say there was not a demand for Irish teachers - I simply am not sure. Empirically I have found that the demand might be exaggerated is all I am saying, because some of what I see does not add up to some of what I read here. I am working off albeit very limited evidence and would doff my cap to the opinion of anyone who had broad experience in the area and can speak with authority on that basis.

This is what I wrote:

The school I am doing TP in appears to have no shortage of Irish teachers when compared to other subjects, and one girl is in doing maternity leave for another Irish teacher. If the general talk is to be believed the girl who's in to teach Irish should have a job already elsewhere - "they are crying out" etc. etc.

I also read here recently of a few Irish graduates subbing in Primary schools.

Whatever. We're going off the point here a bit and again I'm talking from experience as a qualified Irish teacher and from my experience before fully qualifying.

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Whatever. We're going off the point here a bit and again I'm talking from experience as a qualified Irish teacher and from my experience before fully qualifying.

The point of the thread is about the ability/inability to get jobs. I would say we are right on topic.

I am just surprised to hear of qualified Irish teachers subbing here or there for a few months and subbing at Primary level if there is a huge demand for them. There could of course be a perfectly rational alternative explanation for the cases I mention.

gaeilgebeo

Rosita wrote: »

The point of the thread is about the ability/inability to get jobs. I would say we are right on topic.

I am just surprised to hear of qualified Irish teachers subbing here or there for a few months and subbing at Primary level if there is a huge demand for them. There could of course be a perfectly rational alternative explanation for the cases I mention.

Exactly, the thread is not about yarns.
As I have said in previous posts, the reason that a small number of irish teachers may not get a permanent job is because their standard of irish may not be up to scratch. Unfortunetly it is one of the only subjects were you have to show your ability in the subject by the interview process being half in Irish. 2 principals I have spoken to on this matter over the years have said the same thing, if a candidate in an interview doesn't have a good standard of irish, they will not get a job. Also you must remember that some teachers in any subject can get a very bad reference, therefore making it harder for them to get a job.

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Exactly, the thread is not about yarns.
As I have said in previous posts, the reason that a small number of irish teachers may not get a permanent job is because their standard of irish may not be up to scratch. Unfortunetly it is one of the only subjects were you have to show your ability in the subject by the interview process being half in Irish. 2 principals I have spoken to on this matter over the years have said the same thing, if a candidate in an interview doesn't have a good standard of irish, they will not get a job. Also you must remember that some teachers in any subject can get a very bad reference, therefore making it harder for them to get a job.

It might well be about yarns - we simply don't know. You have had conversations with 2 principals "over the years" - it is hardly a towering body of evidence on the matter, let's be honest, no more than my own view. At least I am happy to acknowledge the limitations of my own evidence.

You are taking a theory based on very few particular examples and creating a general theory from it. Whether there is broader evidence to support your general theory I don't know.

gaeilgebeo

Rosita wrote: »

It might well be about yarns - we simply don't know. You have had conversations with 2 principals "over the years" - it is hardly a towering body of evidence on the matter, let's be honest, no more than my own view. At least I am happy to acknowledge the limitations of my own evidence.

You are taking a theory based on very few particular examples and creating a general theory from it. Whether there is broader evidence to support your general theory I don't know.

I am obviously not basing my opinion(as opposed to "theory") solely on conversations with principals. I assumed this went without saying! I was giving 1 example of a reason I have this opinion. I could use many more examples such as(some) irish teachers securing permanent positions, as I was,early in their careers, graduates of Irish with no Hdip securing employment and so on...

I am more than happy as you put it "to acknowledge the limitations of my own evidence":D. I am posting an opinion(again not a theory) based on my experience as a graduate of Irish with no hdip and now as a qualified experienced teacher.

Maybe things have drastically changed. Maybe you will have difficulty securing a position when you qualify, as lets face it, the current job crisis in teaching is going to worsen in the next 1/2/3 years before it gets better. I hope this is not the case.

Again, all of the above is my experience/opinion.

Rosita

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I am obviously not basing my opinion(as opposed to "theory") solely on conversations with principals. I assumed this went without saying! I was giving 1 example of a reason I have this opinion. I could use many more examples such as(some) irish teachers securing permanent positions, as I was,early in their careers, graduates of Irish with no Hdip securing employment and so on...

I am more than happy as you put it "to acknowledge the limitations of my own evidence":D. I am posting an opinion(again not a theory) based on my experience as a graduate of Irish with no hdip and now as a qualified experienced teacher.

Maybe things have drastically changed. Maybe you will have difficulty securing a position when you qualify, as lets face it, the current job crisis in teaching is going to worsen in the next 1/2/3 years before it gets better. I hope this is not the case.

Again, all of the above is my experience/opinion.

I just used the word "theory" - we don't need to get hung up on it. As far as I am concerned an unprove opinion (or one unsubstantiated by a significant amount of evidence) is a theory. But you can call it what you want. Use opinion if you wish. I thought opinion went without saying on a board such as this which is designed for opinions

I never suggested that anything has drastically changed. I am merely citing a few examples which are out of line with much of what I read here and raising an obvious question. But for obvious personal reasons I would be glad to be corrected.

lauralee28

Rosita wrote: »

I just used the word "theory" - we don't need to get hung up on it. As far as I am concerned an unprove opinion (or one unsubstantiated by a significant amount of evidence) is a theory. But you can call it what you want. Use opinion if you wish. I thought opinion went without saying on a board such as this which is designed for opinions

I never suggested that anything has drastically changed. I am merely citing a few examples which are out of line with much of what I read here and raising an obvious question. But for obvious personal reasons I would be glad to be corrected.

Think you're splitting hairs a bit at this stage Rosita and waffling off the point. I'm with Gaeilgebeo on this one. I've had similar experiences.Your opinion may change with experience.

Rosita

lauralee28 wrote: »

Think you're splitting hairs a bit at this stage Rosita and waffling off the point. I'm with Gaeilgebeo on this one. I've had similar experiences.Your opinion may change with experience.

My opinion? Have you read any of my previous posts at all?

I was citing a few actual observations which are accurate and which do not dovetail with what I normally read here. I think it is dishonest not to make Irish graduates such as myself aware of this.

But I never offered an opinion that us Irish graduates will have anything less that permanent pensionable employment this time next year (in fact I look forward to that) - I simply don't have the evidence either way. I was merely raising real-life situations which might be interpreted as suggesting otherwise and foolishly decided to throw it out for discussion.

As for your "splitting hairs" and "waffling off the point" remarks - if you want to assure people that what I observed is far from the normal reality fair enough. But please do so in a rational and informed way and not rely on belligerent dismissive remarks like those which are designed to undermine my remarks without offering anything constructive yourself.

di2772

Just to add my 2c.
Im on the BOM of my kids school.
They have lost some teacher numbers for this year.
However they have had to hire some new teachers due to people leaving.

The reason you may be finding it hard to get a job is your qualifications.

Both the junior and senior school that i am on the BOM of, are just not hiring anyone who hasnt got some experience already. If you are a hibernian teacher, forget it, for this year anyway. The decision in both schools (and many others, from what im told) has been made to hire only experienced or at the worst those with degrees in teaching.

The short cut courses wont get you a job this year.

The cutbacks are killing the schools, but at least it might change with a few retirements.

Benicetomonty

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

It is depending on subjects. My sister is only just finished her degree and has no dip or experience. She has a 22hour contract for the year and started back today. Irish is her subject.

I find that fairly reprehensible to be honest. I know of a number of fully qualified Irish teachers that are still looking for work having completed the PGDE this year. What's the point in having that qualification or paying 90e to register with the teaching council if they're just going to be overlooked? Joke. Principal of that school ought to be sacked for that with the way things have gone. Not for one second do I believe they couldn't find a qualified teacher.

Nead21

di2772 wrote: »

The reason you may be finding it hard to get a job is your qualifications.

If you are a hibernian teacher, forget it, for this year anyway. The decision in both schools (and many others, from what im told) has been made to hire only experienced or at the worst those with degrees in teaching.

The short cut courses wont get you a job this year.

why is hibernia considered a shortcut course? is it not the same as doing a postgrad in primary?

are you saying that people with hibernia courses, regardless of there experience or motivation to teaching are not being considered?

is it fair to say that just because some knew what you wanted to do when you finished school, and went straight to primary school teaching, qualify at 21 and have no other experience, are better than students who decide to go back later on in life?

in what other profession is this manner of thinking acceptable?

di2772

Nead21 wrote: »

why is hibernia considered a shortcut course? is it not the same as doing a postgrad in primary?

are you saying that people with hibernia courses, regardless of there experience or motivation to teaching are not being considered?

is it fair to say that just because some knew what you wanted to do when you finished school, and went straight to primary school teaching, qualify at 21 and have no other experience, are better than students who decide to go back later on in life?

in what other profession is this manner of thinking acceptable?

Not just Hibernia.
It seems its just commonly accepted that the HDip teachers need much longer to catch up than teachers who did a BEd.
I dont know if it is the case myself, just what ive been told from people who work along side teachers who qualified through each source. As always though, there are exceptions.

But starting out. They are just last on the list in the current climate.

Nead21

di2772 wrote: »

Not just Hibernia.
It seems its just commonly accepted that the HDip teachers need much longer to catch up than teachers who did a BEd.
I dont know if it is the case myself, just what ive been told from people who work along side teachers who qualified through each source. As always though, there are exceptions.

But starting out. They are just last on the list in the current climate.

ok i can kind of understand the comparison with BEd teachers, as they have spent 4 years studying teaching as opposed to it being squished into a year/year and a half.

another question for you...are applicants other experiences taken into consideration, as in job experience? i ask this, as i worked as an education officer before requalifying as a teacher

mazken

Benicetomonty wrote: »

I find that fairly reprehensible to be honest. I know of a number of fully qualified Irish teachers that are still looking for work having completed the PGDE this year. What's the point in having that qualification or paying 90e to register with the teaching council if they're just going to be overlooked? Joke. Principal of that school ought to be sacked for that with the way things have gone. Not for one second do I believe they couldn't find a qualified teacher.

I'm in complete agreement with that. How did that principal get away with hiring someone without a teaching council registration no.? It brings the whole system into disrepute and makes me even more angry when I'll have to hand over another 90 euro (probably more next year!!) next March - grrrr!!

di2772

Nead21 wrote: »

ok i can kind of understand the comparison with BEd teachers, as they have spent 4 years studying teaching as opposed to it being squished into a year/year and a half.

another question for you...are applicants other experiences taken into consideration, as in job experience? i ask this, as i worked as an education officer before requalifying as a teacher

It is. But unless a BEd has zero experience they will be on top of the list.
The problem right now is that there is far too much competition. Most schools are having to let people go. They will be first taken up by schools that need to hire.

Miss Lockhart

mazken wrote: »

I'm in complete agreement with that. How did that principal get away with hiring someone without a teaching council registration no.? It brings the whole system into disrepute and makes me even more angry when I'll have to hand over another 90 euro (probably more next year!!) next March - grrrr!!

For the moment you can be registered with the TC for the VEC sector without a Dip.

gaeilgebeo

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

For the moment you can be registered with the TC for the VEC sector without a Dip.

Yes

Sabatini

I just had a look at the Teaching Council website and it says that registration of teachers is governed by Section 13 (5) of the Teaching Council Act 2001.

I had a look at this piece of legislation but it makes no apparent distinction (in that subsection anyway) between the different second level sectors.

Can anyone suggest a source that would show you "can be registered with the TC for the VEC sector without a Dip".

implausible

Firstly, I agree with gaeilgebeo on the demand for Irish teachers. I have my degree and dip through Irish and have never had any hassle getting employment.

As for the VEC thing: VEC teachers have always been regarded as qualified, without a H.Dip. This is an anomaly that they are sorting out. In the last few years, VEC teachers in the system have been able to register with the TC. I doubt that this situation will continue.

I don't think you are ever going to completely have an education system free of unqualified teachers. If a school in Donegal advertises for a teacher to cover a maternity leave, candidates aren't going to come from Cork for it. If no qualified candidate applies, you can't leave a class without a teacher, so a degree holder in that subject is better than nothing. Believe it or not, there are positions advertised that can't be filled.

beogaeilge

just on the note of Irish teachers walking into jobs, I like many of my Irish PGDE class mates have been left jobless, thats with a degree,masters and PGDE and having sent CVs to every post Ive seen advertised! two interviews so far, yet no job!

obviously I agree that experience is important, but the rant could continue forever as to how we will get this experience if we cant get hired!

optimism is becoming sooo hard!

pathway33

beogaeilge wrote: »

just on the note of Irish teachers walking into jobs, I like many of my Irish PGDE class mates have been left jobless, thats with a degree,masters and PGDE and having sent CVs to every post Ive seen advertised! two interviews so far, yet no job!

obviously I agree that experience is important, but the rant could continue forever as to how we will get this experience if we cant get hired!

optimism is becoming sooo hard!

If you present yourself to the principal of the school that gaeilgebeo's unqualified sister is working in then that job is yours surely, since the principal must employ a qualified person over a non-qualified person??

Tigerandahalf

di2772 wrote: »

Not just Hibernia.
It seems its just commonly accepted that the HDip teachers need much longer to catch up than teachers who did a BEd.
I dont know if it is the case myself, just what ive been told from people who work along side teachers who qualified through each source. As always though, there are exceptions.

But starting out. They are just last on the list in the current climate.

This just goes to show that some of the people on BOMs are not upto scratch in terms of their knowledge of the education sector. Any person who says that Hibernia or any other post-graduate in education is not at the same level as a BEd clearly is ill-informed. I'm afraid you probably don't even know what the make up of the courses are. As you said yourself, from 'what I was told...'
Unfortunately this is what angers many teachers seeking employment.

eager tortoise

pathway33 wrote: »

the principal must employ a qualified person over a non-qualified person??

This is something that is really bothering me at the moment. I am also a recent graduate of the PGDE and still unemployed. Of course this has not come as a total surprise given that I and my fellow graduates were preparing for it to be tough going on the job front once the cutbacks kicked in. However I have heard several stories this year of people getting contracts without having done the dip or having experience.

I have to say it's pretty tough to swallow in these straightened times!! I'm not for a second saying that the candidates themselves are doing anything wrong - I know it's all about getting experience for the dip and making a few bob and has been the "done thing" in the past. But at the end of the day there has not been, in recent years, such a significant number of people who are not only qualified but experienced walking the streets looking for a teaching job. I know subjects play a big part but I also think it is a question of right place/right time and having contacts. What really needs to be looked at is the hiring practices in place in schools. I just can't see this sort of thing happening in other professions and I would love to know what line the unions take on it all??

beogaeilge

I agree eager tortoise,
Even though I am only a NQT it seems that this profession is all about who you know! Ive heard rumours of jobs being gone before they are even advertised!

Still hoping optimism pays off though

peewee18988

Yeah I'm an unqualified NQT too, very depressed about the whole thing at this stage. Hopefully there are still a few spots to be filled!

di2772

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

This just goes to show that some of the people on BOMs are not upto scratch in terms of their knowledge of the education sector. Any person who says that Hibernia or any other post-graduate in education is not at the same level as a BEd clearly is ill-informed. I'm afraid you probably don't even know what the make up of the courses are. As you said yourself, from 'what I was told...'
Unfortunately this is what angers many teachers seeking employment.

I dont do the Hiring. Its the principals decision at the end of the day. Its she who decides what qualifications the successful interviewees will have to have.

Presumably she knows the quality of the existing teachers in the school and what path they chose to being a teacher. And is therefore using her expereience in selecting further staff.

You only have to look around you to see it is similar everywhere. You wont see too many BEds looking for jobs at the moment. But look how many Hibernians etc there are looking for work.

implausible

beogaeilge wrote: »

Even though I am only a NQT it seems that this profession is all about who you know! Ive heard rumours of jobs being gone before they are even advertised!

It's not necessarily a case of who you know. They aren't always rumours, many jobs are gone before they are advertised, but this is due to the fact that principals are obliged to advertise them, even though they are more than happy with the person in the job. To comply with the rules, they have to advertise. It's a daft system, as it only gives people false hope and wastes time and money.

spurious

Where people got their qualifications is neither here nor there. The problem is there are too many qualified people and too few jobs - even less now since the cutbacks and increase in PTR.

This is not a new situation. Why so many people were allowed enter teacher training courses when there was already an over-supply in most subjects is the question that should be asked.