Curfew for new drivers

Long Onion

Proposal to ban newly-qualified drivers from the roads after a certain time in the evening.

Not a bad idea I think, but completely un-enforceable due to working hours etc. What do you think?

Gurgle

Long Onion wrote: »

Not a bad idea I think, but completely un-enforceable due to working hours etc. What do you think?

I think its utterly wrong, a blatant infringement on civil liberties. We have a constitution, we're all supposedly equal.

Zube

Empty publicity stunt. The RSA are getting like Ryanair: threaten to charge for the toilets and get on the front page.

Long Onion

Gurgle wrote: »

I think its utterly wrong, a blatant infringement on civil liberties. We have a constitution, we're all supposedly equal.

When you look at the times that many accidents take place and the typical demgraphic of the drivers involved, I think it is worth considering. You forget that provisional drivers are not allowed on motorways, that you can only get a license when you reach a certain age, that provisional drivers are not allowed drive unaccompanied etc.

We have many restictions imposed on civil liberty and they can easily be justified on the grounds of protecting public safety.

smash

there's a few threads covering this already

bernardo mac

Gardai could be more usefully employed in more urgent areas.They'll get tied up[no pun]in all sorts of minutiae and bureaucratic nonsense and will eventually ignore the order unless some crazy driving has caught their attention.Then again loud exhausts will certainly wake them from a sleepy watch and give more them "ammunition" in their investigation.the threat might put manners on some,however most young drivers are just as responsible as the majority.There are many well seasoned maniacal motorists on the road that should be caught

Jax Teller

Long Onion wrote: »

Proposal to ban newly-qualified drivers from the roads after a certain time in the evening.

Not a bad idea I think, but completely un-enforceable due to working hours etc. What do you think?

i heard a good point about this the other day , why dont they put a curfew on drivers who have motoring offences to there name rather than just punish all us young folk with perfectly clean full licences

kmick

The problem on Irish roads is enforcement of the current laws. This new law if it ever gets through will be unenforced and unenforcable. I mean most country garda stations shut early these days.

Berty

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

rather than just punish all us young folk with perfectly clean full licences

Its newly qualified drivers, this would include people of any age. You can start learning to drive at 60 also and you still then be banned from driving at certain times.

I will accept that the majority will be young people but then again the new rule is not being ageist.

Riskymove

Gurgle wrote: »

We have a constitution, we're all supposedly equal.

to take it to the extreme level you are talking about, we wouldn't have any licence system at all, we could all just jump in a car

EPM

steve06 wrote: »

there's a few threads covering this already

Are those foglights I see in the distance:pac:

pablosd

what if someone is working evening shifts like myself, i start at 4.30pm and finish at 10.00pm and live 25km away from my workplace,
how many young/fresh drivers would be in the similar situation in this country??
they dont take into account that some still have jobs and recession hasn't consumed them yet, give up ur job for some stupid curfew??
if politicians have nothing to do that they come up with nonsense like that maybe its time to change department...

Gurgle

Riskymove wrote: »

to take it to the extreme level you are talking about, we wouldn't have any licence system at all, we could all just jump in a car

Congratulations, dumbest thing I've heard all day.
Its 'extreme' to say that everyone who has passed the driving test and has no history as a dangerous driver should have the same right of access to the public roads?

faceman

The problem with an initiative like this is that while it may reduce road deaths during the hours of curfew, it does nothing to aid driver education.

firefly08

They shouldn't be considered qualified if they're not capable to driving safely. Once they're qualified, they should be treated just like everyone else.

If there's a problem, it's that drivers are becoming legally "qualified" when they're really not ready. If they ever start enforcing the new provisional license rules, it might help to fix it.

Robbo

Gurgle wrote: »

Congratulations, dumbest thing I've heard all day.
Its 'extreme' to say that everyone who has passed the driving test and has no history as a dangerous driver should have the same right of access to the public roads?

Perhaps you'd like to dig out the relevant article from the Constitution and explain how the Supreme Court has deemed it unassailable?

Many other civilised occidental countries have graduated driving license systems.

OldmanMondeo

bernardo mac wrote: »

Gardai could be more usefully employed in more urgent areas.They'll get tied up[no pun]in all sorts of minutiae and bureaucratic nonsense and will eventually ignore the order unless some crazy driving has caught their attention.

Is the right answer. If the Gardai were able to enforce exsting laws, but can't due to reasons to be discussed elsewhere, There would be no road deaths and no accidents. The main reason for this is because of Drink driveing and speed (awaits for people to say speed doesn't cause accidents), If the Gardai had the resourses they would be able to pub a check point on every pub and night club, even a Garda car park in sight of a pub would probably make a lot of drink drivers think twice.

The idea for a GDL is for the muppets who get a licence and think they know every thing about driving. TBH I am driving 15 years and I am still learning new stuff about driving.

Sizzler

Can we get a curfew put on Gay Byrne and his ill informed ramblings

the_syco

The most stupid thing about these rules are apprenticeships. They're f**ked.

ninty9er

pablosd wrote: »

what if someone is working evening shifts like myself, i start at 4.30pm and finish at 10.00pm and live 25km away from my workplace,

Then they would just have to continue getting there the same way they did before they started learning to drive.

Perfectly reasonable.

Midnight_EG

My insurance has a clause that doesnt allow me to drive between 11pm and 6am, as if I care, I never need the car between then.

Oh, 17 btw.

steph1

ninty9er wrote: »

Then they would just have to continue getting there the same way they did before they started learning to drive.

Perfectly reasonable.

Well to be fair its not perfectly resonable. Thats fine if you live in Dublin or other major cities where there are public transport options and plenty of them. Its not like that in rural areas where there are no buses after a certain time and people may have to rely on family or friends or work colleagues to bring them to work and home or else they are faced with getting a taxi or a hackney.
Thats one of the reasons why people need to be able to drive in rural areas - they have no other choice if they want to get to work and they may not be able to get work near where they live so they are forced to travel often miles to work.

Alanstrainor

steph1 wrote: »

Thats one of the reasons why people need to be able to drive in rural areas - they have no other choice if they want to get to work and they may not be able to get work near where they live so they are forced to travel often miles to work.

So, a First learner permit holder, on their first day behind the wheel should, as far as you're concerned, be exempt from the learner permit laws, just because they live in a rural area? That is essentially what you're saying.
How do countries like finland and Sweden manage? They have far stricter regulations on learner drivers, and a much more intense driving test, with a compulsory 30 hours of driving lessons and 20 theory lessons.

OldmanMondeo

Alanstrainor wrote: »

So, a First learner permit holder, on their first day behind the wheel should, as far as you're concerned, be exempt from the learner permit laws, just because they live in a rural area? That is essentially what you're saying.
How do countries like finland and Sweden manage? They have far stricter regulations on learner drivers, and a much more intense driving test, with a compulsory 30 hours of driving lessons and 20 theory lessons.

Or to put it another way. What did rural people do before car? Get a Donkey or walk..

Gurgle

Robbo wrote: »

Perhaps you'd like to dig out the relevant article from the Constitution and explain how the Supreme Court has deemed it unassailable?

Many other civilised occidental countries have graduated driving license systems.

Article 40
1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.
This shall not be held to mean that the State shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function.

We have no graduated driving licensing system. Everyone holding a driving license has an equal 'capacity' to drive.

Gurgle

Midnight_EG wrote: »

My insurance has a clause that doesnt allow me to drive between 11pm and 6am, as if I care, I never need the car between then.

Oh, 17 btw.

That, presumably, got you a discount.
Thats a matter between you and your insurance provider, nothing to do with government legislation.

Long Onion

Gurgle wrote: »

Article 40
This shall not be held to mean that the State shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function.

Did you just miss this bit?

Gurgle

Long Onion wrote:

Did you just miss this bit?

Did you just miss this bit:

Gurgle wrote: »

We have no graduated driving licensing system. Everyone holding a driving license has an equal 'capacity' to drive.

markpb

steph1 wrote: »

Its not like that in rural areas where there are no buses after a certain time and people may have to rely on family or friends or work colleagues to bring them to work and home or else they are faced with getting a taxi or a hackney.

What your saying is that people's convenience should be put before other people's safety.

Long Onion

Gurgle wrote: »

Did you just miss this bit:

Nope, I was simply pointing out the fact that the drafters of the constitution were at pains to insert a clause which gives the State the ability to impose limititations on certain civil liberties where there are concerns over the capacities of individuals. If this is not a clear sign that there should be justification for curtailing individual freedoms in certain situations, then I don't know what is.

The mere fact that a graduated system has not yet been introduced should not be taken as meaning that it is at odds with our constitution.

Theanswers

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Or to put it another way. What did rural people do before car? Get a Donkey or walk..

I'm sick and tired of this goverments policies towards rural Ireland and the west, they under-invested in this area completely and invested all In Dublin and the south of the country.
There is a higher amount of Road deaths in this area, why? because the roads are rubbish! Full Stop. Lack of goverment investments.
There's no public transport here, during the day its limited every 2 hours and the bus will only stop at certain areas. It's at least 45 minutes walk to the nearest bus stop. Not to mention no footpaths and the road is quite busy, If you go out at night, there defintely no public transport. Taxis dont want to leave town early as they lose business and when at around 3am they do, They will charge you for it 25 euro.
Now wonder why so many learner drivers drive without a full driver?
It's because there's no other option.
The guards understand this fact, I have a full licence. But drove for nearly 9 months on my provisional, everywhere. Drove through checkpoints here and there, never once mentioned learners permit and even when they knew told me "dont be at it" wink and drive on....
These rules are just for the goverment to "pretend" they are doing something.
It dosent work in rural Ireland, the sad thing is they dont have a clue....
And no matter how many rules they make up in Dublin, they would come into effect here as people have more sense, both Young drivers and adults.
It's called general "common sense"
Also i would like to add, Where are these motorways? Not in the West anyways....
Complete sign of under-investment, They are all located around Dublin and the south.
http://www.skynet.ie/~zoney/roads/graphics/NPR_plannedM_tags_c.png

Solitaire

Long Onion wrote:

When you look at the times that many accidents take place and the typical demgraphic of the drivers involved, I think it is worth considering. You forget that provisional drivers are not allowed on motorways, that you can only get a license when you reach a certain age, that provisional drivers are not allowed drive unaccompanied etc.

Shall we just shoot anyone between 40 and 120 years old then? After all, it is the demographic most responsible for euthanasia.

Seriously, if you think that sentence was fundamentally broken, take a good look at your identical one.

OldManMondeo wrote:

Or to put it another way. What did rural people do before car? Get a Donkey or walk..

That sentence is so insulting it isn't true...

And by the way I love the retarded Dub logic: "All culchies live only to be taxed to death, after all they're nothing but a rabble of stinking peasant farmers who don't need transportation or human rights or a say in the running of the country. Real humans live in housing estates". So, your solution is to have all young people living outside towns and industrial estates to live on the Dole for years until they come of age and magically become a better driver?!

ninty9er wrote:

Then they would just have to continue getting there the same way they did before they started learning to drive.

Getting a taxi to the Dole office once a month? Taking away all the jobs belonging to people with less than five years on a full license is not the way to try and pull our country out of the economic gutter. Not that the upper and middle classes don't get some kind of twisted joygasm wallowing in said gutter :mad:

Alanstrainor wrote:

How do countries like finland and Sweden manage? They have far stricter regulations on learner drivers, and a much more intense driving test, with a compulsory 30 hours of driving lessons and 20 theory lessons.

Because they educate their drivers!!!!!

All I can see is that this is a great piece of legislation to drive our road death record back up once more. With the pool of possible designated drivers cut to ribbons and the prioritization of taking less aged (not "older", nor "less experienced") drivers off the night roads rather than chasing late-night boi racers and drunk-drivers we'll see a lot more (conveniently unrecorded) drink-driving and much more panicky night-drivers, scared there's lurking Gards out to get them behind every tree, leading to additional accidents and deaths caused directly or indirectly by these insane "anti-laws". This legislation is the absolute reverse of what we need. After all, if you're not allowed to drive at night until you've had a full license for 2 or 5 or 10 years exactly how will anyone gain any night-driving experience seeing as there's no push to improve the depth and field of driver education?

I'm sorry, but anyone in the High Horse Brigade that keep on spouting this vitriol can't be allowed to continue this rubbish - they're effectively condoning all our road deaths and indeed the abuse and misuse of Garda resources better used to fighting crime and dangerous drivers for nothing other than profit, pure and simple. Because until there is a sea-change in the way Irish drivers are taught how to drive, our appauling national record on the roads will continue, and given how ridiculous some of the new legislation is getting, will soon start to worsen even further.

peasant

This curfew idea is a brainfart, plain and simple

- You can not have a driver education system that contains virtually no driving education and then punish the people who went through it for having learned nothing

- You can not punish the 90% of new drivers who (despite having learned very little) have the mental maturity to drive within their capability and slowly improve their skills without acting the maggot on the roads ... only because the other 10% don't

- You can not announce a curfew and seriously expect those you mainly meant to target to actually stick to it. The only ones heeding the curfew will be those who drive and act sensibly in the first place.

- And lastly ...even the biggest ommadawn should have realised by now that new legislation doesn't improve anything if it isn't enforced. And we all know how well enforcement works, don't we. Every other night I hear eejits tearing around, drawing doughnuts on the road ...where are the gards? At home, having a rest from catching daytime commuters who went 5 km/h above the limit.

Brainfart ...that's what it is

the_syco

Alanstrainor wrote: »

How do countries like finland and Sweden manage? They have far stricter regulations on learner drivers, and a much more intense driving test, with a compulsory 30 hours of driving lessons and 20 theory lessons.

To teach here, you only need a license to drive... is the system in Finland and Sweden any different?

Look at how many accidents that are caused by overtaking, or happen as a result of overtaking, and then wonder why we aren't thought how to overtake.

peasant wrote: »

- You can not punish the 90% of new drivers who (despite having learned very little) have the mental maturity to drive within their capability and slowly improve their skills without acting the maggot on the roads ... only because the other 10% don't

I have my doubts if the 10% that don't follow most laws will follow these news ones.

Alanstrainor

the_syco wrote: »

To teach here, you only need a license to drive... is the system in Finland and Sweden any different?

That is no longer true. To instruct for reward in Ireland you must be an ADI (Approved Driving Instructor).

jhegarty

markpb wrote: »

What your saying is that people's convenience should be put before other people's safety.

And you are saying we should ban all cars ?

Or does this just apply to people who are not you ?

ninty9er

Solitaire wrote: »

Shall we just shoot anyone between 40 and 120 years old then? After all, it is the demographic most responsible for euthanasia.

Seriously, if you think that sentence was fundamentally broken, take a good look at your identical one.



That sentence is so insulting it isn't true...

And by the way I love the retarded Dub logic: "All culchies live only to be taxed to death, after all they're nothing but a rabble of stinking peasant farmers who don't need transportation or human rights or a say in the running of the country. Real humans live in housing estates". So, your solution is to have all young people living outside towns and industrial estates to live on the Dole for years until they come of age and magically become a better driver?!



Getting a taxi to the Dole office once a month? Taking away all the jobs belonging to people with less than five years on a full license is not the way to try and pull our country out of the economic gutter. Not that the upper and middle classes don't get some kind of twisted joygasm wallowing in said gutter :mad:



Because they educate their drivers!!!!!

All I can see is that this is a great piece of legislation to drive our road death record back up once more. With the pool of possible designated drivers cut to ribbons and the prioritization of taking less aged (not "older", nor "less experienced") drivers off the night roads rather than chasing late-night boi racers and drunk-drivers we'll see a lot more (conveniently unrecorded) drink-driving and much more panicky night-drivers, scared there's lurking Gards out to get them behind every tree, leading to additional accidents and deaths caused directly or indirectly by these insane "anti-laws". This legislation is the absolute reverse of what we need. After all, if you're not allowed to drive at night until you've had a full license for 2 or 5 or 10 years exactly how will anyone gain any night-driving experience seeing as there's no push to improve the depth and field of driver education?

I'm sorry, but anyone in the High Horse Brigade that keep on spouting this vitriol can't be allowed to continue this rubbish - they're effectively condoning all our road deaths and indeed the abuse and misuse of Garda resources better used to fighting crime and dangerous drivers for nothing other than profit, pure and simple. Because until there is a sea-change in the way Irish drivers are taught how to drive, our appauling national record on the roads will continue, and given how ridiculous some of the new legislation is getting, will soon start to worsen even further.

I've never seen so much crap written in one post. I never said that people with full licences should be curfewed. My point is that if you have never driven before and managed to get along, you can reasonably be expected to carry on doing that whilst you are learning. You should be able to build your learning around the times people are available to accompany you, or even better just have an enforced practical lessons minimum hours of the 20-30 mentioned as standard in other countries before you take your test and are judged competent to continue to learn on your own.

ninty9er

the_syco wrote: »

Look at how many accidents that are caused by overtaking, or happen as a result of overtaking, and then wonder why we aren't thought how to overtake.

I'd say it's more to do with the cost of insuring a car with a decent 90-110km/h time in this country meaning that the majority of people who know how to overtake have unsuitable equipment under their arse.

OldmanMondeo

There are a few people here putting across the old Dub's V Country argument. Lad's I wouldn't worry about it, As stated earlier, the enforcement is not there. There are laws against Drinking and Driving, but people still do it and get away with it, because the Gardai do not have the resourses to carry out checkpoints. Once your driving in a safe mannor you will get away with 90% of things in this country. Terrible situatuion we have but it is this way.

BTW the Donkey comment was a joke, some people need to get real. I live outside Dublin myself.

Satyr_The_Great

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

i heard a good point about this the other day , why dont they put a curfew on drivers who have motoring offences to there name rather than just punish all us young folk with perfectly clean full licences

Good point,,hell iv seen some provisional licenced drivers who drive better than ALOT of full licence holders...At the end of the day, its common sense and respect that keep people safe on the road. not curfews and punishing innocent drivers or anyone else for hat matter.