Drugs Legalised in Mexico

Auvers

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112088587

Mexico enacted a controversial law last Thursday that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs while encouraging free government treatment for drug dependency.

My guess is tourism will be way up

brummytom

Marijuana I can understand legalising, maybe even cocaine at a stretch.

But heroin?! What the fuck are they thinking?!

Degsy

Auvers wrote: »

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112088587

Mexico enacted a controversial law last Thursday that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs while encouraging free government treatment for drug dependency.

My guess is tourism will be way up

try some of the small narco towns up through the Sierra madre and see how much people took notice of prohibition..you can get a kilo of perico with your cerveza...and a good chance of getting shot too.

Wazdakka

*Books tickets

pikachucheeks

brummytom wrote: »

Marijuana I can understand legalising, maybe even cocaine at a stretch.

But heroin?! What the fuck are they thinking?!

"This is Mexico! No one really cares about us!"

Dancor

They had to get people back after all that swine flu malarky

Boxfresh

Wazdakka wrote: »

*Books tickets

We'll be on the same plane then

vorbis

They probably should have done this sooner and also this doesn't go far enough. The country is riddled with drug warfare, legalization will hopefully reduce some of the crime.

Long Onion

it's cheaper than the swine flu vaccine

Rowley Birkin QC

Seemed to work on The Wire anyway.

My name is URL

Argentina decriminalised possession of weed today too

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/25/world/main5264894.shtml

Tourism will no doubt improve in Latin America

Overheal

brummytom wrote: »

Marijuana I can understand legalising, maybe even cocaine at a stretch.

But heroin?! What the fuck are they thinking?!

That they lost the War,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

Some of this **** makes the IRA look like a hobby.

the_syco

Anyone caught with drug amounts under the new personal-use limit will be encouraged to seek treatment, and for those caught a third time treatment is mandatory.

Sounds like the UK's 3 strike rule with cannibis, 'cept in the UK, it's an arrest, as opposed to treatment...

ShooterSF

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the UK's 3 strike rule with cannibis, 'cept in the UK, it's an arrest, as opposed to treatment...

Yes but was does "treatment" mean in Mexico?

Gran Hermano

Long Onion wrote: »

it's cheaper than the swine flu vaccine

They're just trying to kickstart their tourist industy again

--Kaiser--

Are you a Mexican or a Mexican't?

Stev_o

Have fun with being abducted, ransomed, robbed,poisoned or killed when your over there.

Long Onion

Any race who comes up with 6,000 different ways of folding the same food just to convince you that they have lots of variety is not to be trusted.

ronnie3585

Looks like Bunny Colvin has moved south of the border.

citizen_p

Auvers wrote: »

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112088587

Mexico enacted a controversial law last Thursday that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs while encouraging free government treatment for drug dependency.

My guess is tourism will be way up

there just trying to stop corruption in their gang police force... and stop the drug cartels....
i think at least 1 cop is kiled their every day

ScumLord

Overheal wrote: »

That they lost the War,

Once speedy gonzales found the yolks and wizz there was no way they could keep up with the drugs trade. :pac:

generalmiaow

Before this thread turns into another boring drug legalisation debate which generally turns into someone comparing everything to alcohol/tobacco/caffeine/pharmaceuticals and old people mocking the stoner stereotype/students quoting erowid, I'd like to say it'd be cool to talk about how Mexico is a big warzone and none of this possibly applies to us.

The same applies in Afghanistan to some extent, where despite the Taliban AND the US forces being all over the gaff, there's still a whole load of opium production and use.

Brazil, interestingly, just effectively decriminalised cannabis yesterday for civil liberties reasons but it's nothing to do with what happened in Mexico. From what I understand, Mexico just doesn't have the resources to police western-style drug prohibition anymore, I doubt the pros and cons of pharmaceutical grade heroin will come into it.

Unfortunately I reckon the quality of heroin is unlikely to increase in Mexico anyway since greedy profit making will still come into it, not to mention that the people who make black tar there will not be affected by the decriminalisation of personal use, and they prepare their stuff for foreign markets anyway.

generalmiaow

aido179 wrote: »

totally agreed! if its legal, it can be regulated and protected.
this is why i was hoping stuff like legal fireworks would come into ireland

I would like to see fireworks legal here as well, given that prohibiting them has had no effect, but regulating them is a totally different job than drugs, it's not like you can offer firework rehab treatment or give people clean lighters and matches or have firework coffeeshops where you can drink a capuccino and let off a few screamers.

dr.bollocko

If anyone wants to make any specific claims about drugs I would invite them to do so if they can back up what they are saying.
Debate we're looking for.

procure11

Auvers wrote: »

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112088587

Mexico enacted a controversial law last Thursday that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs while encouraging free government treatment for drug dependency.

My guess is tourism will be way up

And so would drug related deaths,violence and crime.
I know that it is very necessary to keep an open mind these days but anyone who honestly applauds this needs help.

Wazdakka

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If anyone wants to make any specific claims about drugs I would invite them to do so if they can back up what they are saying.
Debate we're looking for.

Drugs are Awesome..
Backup Link

Pace2008

procure11 wrote: »

And so would drug related deaths,violence and crime.
I know that it is very necessary to keep an open mind these days but anyone who honestly applauds this needs help.

I'd imagine the whole idea of the move was to reduce violent crime, not to stimulate tourism.

It's been pointed out already in this thread:

Mexico is a big warzone and none of this possibly applies to us.

...

From what I understand, Mexico just doesn't have the resources to police western-style drug prohibition anymore

Gang warfare has spiraled out of control in Mexico and the government has obviously decided that the potential societal problems that will be caused by increased drug use will be outweighed by the curtailing of gang activity.

procure11

Pace2008 wrote: »

I'd imagine the whole idea of the move was to reduce violent crime, not to stimulate tourism.

It's been pointed out already in this thread:




Gang warfare has spiraled out of control in Mexico and the government has obviously decided that the potential societal problems that will be caused by increased drug use will be outweighed by the curtailing of gang activity.

If you are correct..and the government would risk the mental,emotional,psychological well being of its citizenry in an attempt to curtail gang activity...they are not very clever then.

Pace2008

procure11 wrote: »

If you are correct..and the government would risk the mental,emotional,psychological well being of its citizenry in an attempt to curtail gang activity...they are not very clever then.

I'd recommend you look into the extent of gang-related deaths and violence in Mexico before you comment any further. I agree, it's certainly not a clear-cut case but you're letting your morality get in the way of objectivity.

Redzer7

Sunny Mexico here I come
Fcuk the swine flu :P..

Stev_o

procure11 wrote: »

If you are correct..and the government would risk the mental,emotional,psychological well being of its citizenry in an attempt to curtail gang activity...they are not very clever then.

Do you have any idea how bad it is over there? Makes Afghanistan look like a PG rated film at times.

procure11

Pace2008 wrote: »

I'd recommend you look into the extent of gang-related deaths and violence in Mexico before you comment any further. I agree, it's certainly not a clear-cut case but you're letting your morality get in the way of objectivity.

How objective can I get? ( well except if you read my tags as part of my post)...rather I think it is just common sense to know that irrespective of gang -related deaths or violence..legalising drugs in an attempt to curb it would definitely be counter -productive.

I am not ignoring the fact the government has to formulate and implement policies to address the problem but legalising the same drugs that cause the problems in attempt to disempower the dealers would also lead to an unhealthy populace and most likely turn some of them into addicts or even dealers- it essentially leads to a vicious cycle tbh.

I am not too sure but I think there would be more Drugs gang-related deaths,violence and kidnappings in Columbia than Mexico and there are similar problems in Jamaica,Peru,Afganistan etc.If they decide to use this same method...imagine how wonderful the world would be?

The End Of Days

brummytom wrote: »

Marijuana I can understand legalising, maybe even cocaine at a stretch.

But heroin?! What the fuck are they thinking?!

Sure why not. If you are going to do it go the whole hogg I say.

generalmiaow

procure11 wrote: »

I am not ignoring the fact the government has to formulate and implement policies to address the problem but legalising the same drugs that cause the problems in attempt to disempower the dealers would also lead to an unhealthy populace and most likely turn some of them into addicts or even dealers- it essentially leads to a vicious cycle tbh.

They are not legalising drug dealing. I see your logic, but drug gangs appear and disappear according to demand for drugs, which in Mexico's case, is primarily an export market.

Mexico's drug war, and it is an actual, military style tanks-bombers-etc war, has killed over 10,000 people since 2006 according to this estimate, but I've heard higher. That is astronomical. I can't find a source for heroin deaths in Mexico, but in the US, it is 400 per year. With 150 deaths per hundred thousand, even if there were 3 million new heroin users in mexico, which would be six times as many of them as there are in the US, their main target market, it would still not kill as many people in a year.

Mexico is not creating an industry out of recreational drug use. The industry already exists. Drug use of this sort is drawn from social problems and poverty, which are not going to increase simply because personal drug use is no longer going to land you in jail - which, since they didn't have the resources to police people's private lives anyway, it doesn't. This is a perfectly logical thing to do.

Pace2008

procure11 wrote: »

How objective can I get? ( well except if you read my tags as part of my post)...rather I think it is just common sense to know that irrespective of gang -related deaths or violence..legalising drugs in an attempt to curb it would definitely be counter -productive.

I am not ignoring the fact the government has to formulate and implement policies to address the problem but legalising the same drugs that cause the problems in attempt to disempower the dealers would also lead to an unhealthy populace and most likely turn some of them into addicts or even dealers- it essentially leads to a vicious cycle tbh.

Here are two links detailing the results of Portugal's drug decriminalisation policy:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf

You may be surprised to learn that the rate of cocaine and heroin use actually fell following the the policy's introduction. Heroin-related deaths and levels of new HIV infection also dropped. Now, Mexico is not Portugal; they are two vastly different societies, but these reports go to show that decriminalising drugs will not necessairly turn the nation into a legion of junkies. You mentioned earlier in the thread that it's good to keep an open mind so don't just say it - do it.

Run_to_da_hills

Long Onion wrote: »

it's cheaper than the swine flu vaccine

Edited: it's cheaper safer than the swine flu vaccine

kumate_champ07

It hasnt been in mainstream media but there is a big expensive war in mexico against druglords/ the drugs trade. automatic weapon shootouts and grenades on daytime streets. families murdered, people tortured and left naked beside kids schools.

all bets are off, the hitmen dont work by any code now, women and children of police members are fair game.


Tijuana was hit bad. thats where all the coke gets thru on the way to Hollywood. The criminals dont give a **** if the public gets in the way, on mexican independence day they threw grenades into a crowd in Mexico city

they prob have all this in the bbc latin america section

edited*I lost a thanks when I fixed a typo, didnt know that happens!

kumate_champ07

a major reason why they wont win the war against drugs is the bribery behind the scenes. the thing is if you dont take the money and help out the drug dealers they shoot your family. not much of a choice there

CCCP^

Overheal wrote: »

That they lost the War,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

Some of this **** makes the IRA look like a hobby.

Sorry, whats your point here?

Overheal

my point was it wasnt some half brained decision by the mexican government.

One poster asked "wtf are they thinking??!"

Theyre backed into a corner with the drug cartels. The war has done good to not only destroy mexicos reputation (once again - already notorious for kidnapping of tourists) but also to end lots of civilian lives. This isnt like the situation in most other countries with drugs. This was a case of the violence spilling out into the streets, serious issues of corruption in the mexican justice system and etc. - Basically that power that the govt has over drug ops in most other countries (UK, US, Ireland) was tipped over on its head. Almost a Colombian situation now: The Cartels are in power in all matters relating to their product. Mexico has entirely lost control and they will need to work carefully if they dont want the entire country to be taken in a cartel-driven coup d'etait. They might only be decriminalizing personal use here, but giving an inch to the Cartels during an all out war? Thats saying something in my view. The Mexican Gov't is Caving. My guess is the Cartels will continue to press their advantage.

I wouldn't want to vacation there any time soon more than I would Colombia. I know its AH but before anyone got the idea in their heads that it might be a great idea: I strongly advise you to perform some research before committing to any trips to Mexico anytime soon.

/And now back to the joking aside

kumate_champ07

Overheal wrote: »

Some of this **** makes the IRA look like a hobby.

It kinda is a hobby now, for one dimensional morons living in the past

CCCP^

Might be time to declare the whole War on Drugs as a bit counter-productive and pointless in that case then and legalize everything.

kumate_champ07

I was in Tijuana last summer for a quick bit of tequilla and rolex shopping, It got dark before I noticed so I quickly pulled a legger out of there, place has a dodgey feeling, worse then before.

zig and zag had there personal stereo stollen there, I was naturally worried about my camera

kumate_champ07

CCCP^ wrote: »

Might be time to declare the whole War on Drugs as a bit counter-productive and pointless

kind of like every war right now?

Overheal

CCCP^ wrote: »

Might be time to declare the whole War on Drugs as a bit counter-productive and pointless in that case then and legalize everything.

There will always be that argument. And I've been on that side of the aisle before. But paying attention to recent events is softening my view. Its already starting to become legal (pot) slowly. An overnight legalization would be a disaster if you ask me. It needs to be done over time to introduce regulation gradually. And that seems to be whats happening. Im in no rush. Its not like I smoke anymore.

CCCP^

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

kind of like every war right now?

+1 My Friend.

generalmiaow

CCCP^ wrote: »

Might be time to declare the whole War on Drugs as a bit counter-productive and pointless in that case then and legalize everything.

Mexico's war is not the War on Drugs though. The latter is a PR exercise used to excuse a kind of repression and interference, the former is an actual war. It's sometimes the done thing to say this and that is part of one of these wars on things, like the way Ethiopia said invading Somalia was part of the War on terror but it mightn't seem like that if you were actually there.

From what I understand the US has an interest in Mexico's drug war either because they think funding it will stabilise the region or it will help cut off heroin/cocaine/cannabis supply to the US.

Stopping the supply I suppose is part of the war on drugs, but they could stop interfering and drop the war rhetoric while still keeping drugs illegal in most countries, in theory. But as to the stabilising intention, given Overheal's description, it might be worthwhile if Mexico won this thing so that it doesn't get even worse, if they can.