IAA/IASRA Minutes Online!

Dr_Pepper

Saw this in the airsoft chat room and i just know you all want em.
Up on the IAA site -- link below

http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/IASRA-Meeting-20090805.pdf

TheDoc

Looks very interesting indeed.

I agree its about time we saw something from IASRA. I genuinely forgot that I was sitting in a meeting where the IAA where getting feedback from affinities over the chamber of commerce thing, that is how long ago that was.

I take from the vibe from the the minutes, that patience has run thin, and IASRA need to start putting some work in. They agreed to help setup the chamber of commerce, yet they went on a mad recruitment drive, they are focusing on becoming an IAA copy, lets not lie about it.

Focus needs to be put into perspective.

The comments relating to boards.ie are exactly why a vast number of people do not trust IASRA and get completely confused. Boards.ie we can discuss most thing airsoft related, and had a lengthy discussion relating to the IASRA constitution. However when things are asked on your own forum that seem distasteful, or you fear answering, its usually closed. Here is a place where the only way to dodge the question is to not reply, and that gives its own indication. However to request a thread be closed is really indicating to me there is a general " I don't know the answer". Which for me is not good enough.

I also find the Frag situation to be lols. Their one leader, has the power to cast over 600 votes? That is outragous. so are you essentially saying, since you require a 3/4 majority vote to decide things, that FRAG run IASRA ?
How exactly do you want to be taken seriously, honestly. Its beyond a joke at this stage.

I'm more outrged at the fact this sport was about to recognised as a legitimate sport, which would ease pressure of players,sites and retailers and help growth in the sport even further, and that it was completely borked by IASRA, not intentionally, maybe not even knowingly.

But for me IASRA has done nothing but do damages to the sport.

I'd also like to point out this is not an attack on the specific commitee members, because I'm sure they have nothing but good intentions at heart.

But from those minutes, its like they got thrown 5 pieces of paper, while a certain someone said " see ya" and pulled a legger. So I feel kinda sorry for the IASRA committee, who got thrown into the deep end, knee deep in ****, and clearly dont have the tools or communication/help from the previous committee to cope.

k99_64

Reading through this and tbh it does kinda read as a joke, IASRA not knowing ass from elbow etc. I kinda feel sorry for the new committee being thrown into a s**t storm and not being told all the relevant past details.

One more thing, this kinda makes it look like the community will between Filipino community with their own reps and everyone else, dont really see this as a good thing.

mcshape

I have a question, The group Frag joined as one entity? Frag is a worldwide Filipino airsoft community not just ireland, Does that make a diffrence?, can they join as a whole if only a small percentage are based in ireland? Certainly i think that make a diffrence if the one frag representative in meetings can cast a vote for 600?

Mervenut

Thanks guys for getting these up!

However, much as I had high hopes for this meeting (see my posts in the IASRA constitution thread) and speaking as a neutral and relative newcomer to the sport, I am very disapointed by IASRA's lack of plain common sense in relation to these issues. Their new committee have been sold a major pup, and I feel very sorry for them!

How can they take a "block vote" from any team or organisation, nowhere in their flawed constitution does it allow for group membership. It really is silly!

Several times they stated that the "need to consult members" well then do it! Call an EGM of your members (individuals, not those with "block votes) for mid September and put the new (completed) constitution, (which should be about a chamber of commerce for retailers and how it would work) to them, it's not rocket science!

I really do hope IASRA can get the Cof C thing up an running, but i'm not holding my breath!

Masada

Is it possible for anyone to C+P the contents of the document? im unable to open it for some reason.
cheers,

gerrowadat

Mervenut wrote: »

Thanks guys for getting these up!

However, much as I had high hopes for this meeting (see my posts in the IASRA constitution thread) and speaking as a neutral and relative newcomer to the sport, I am very disapointed by IASRA's lack of plain common sense in relation to these issues. Their new committee have been sold a major pup, and I feel very sorry for them!

How can they take a "block vote" from any team or organisation, nowhere in their flawed constitution does it allow for group membership. It really is silly!

Several times they stated that the "need to consult members" well then do it! Call an EGM of your members (individuals, not those with "block votes) for mid September and put the new (completed) constitution, (which should be about a chamber of commerce for retailers and how it would work) to them, it's not rocket science!

I really do hope IASRA can get the Cof C thing up an running, but i'm not holding my breath!

From http://www.iasra.net/

It is my intention to hold a meeting on Wednesday the 2nd of September, at a venue to announce at a later date for you the members to have your say and air your concerns about this move.

Not an EGM, but the IAA committee will be there to answer any concerns put to us.

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

TheDoc

The amount of

" we must consult our members" is a bit worrying.

The reason that committees are elected in the first place, is to act on behalf of those who elected them. They are elected with trust to act on behalf of those they represent.

As the IAA do not represent their own members, but all airsofters and avenues from the sport, imagine if they took time to get a vote of everyone?

Imagine even when dealing with the hundreds of iaa members, if they waited to get a say of everyone?

We would be looking at a different bill, and alot of different outcomes.

Stumbling and staggering and constantly having to " ask our members" to me says one of a few options.

There is no self confidence in their ability.
They do not understand the concept of their position and why they were elected.
They fear upsetting members, some members, or some entity of their organisation.

Due to the fact one man casts 600 votes, surely the process of contacting their members ad getting their votes, should be a simple phone call, one..phone call.

Airsoft Reloded

Dump the lot and we IAA affiliated members should create a chamber of commerce. The divide in the community created by certain members is there and nothing can be done (god bless the IAA for trying though) but in the mean time we the commercial interests of this sport can look after our own interests with people at the helm that we trust.

Simply put this is getting boring now. I want something to come passed words and an organisation to be tailored to suit our needs (with the guiding hand (or whip if necessary) of the IAA so it doesn't go to far).

If we are all sitting here saying poor committe, or crap and untrustworthy old one then we will never have any faith in this outfit and it is therefore a flop s we should let it die and move on.

Just my two cents.

Airsoft Reloded

TheDoc wrote: »

The amount of

" we must consult our members" is a bit worrying.

The reason that committees are elected in the first place, is to act on behalf of those who elected them. They are elected with trust to act on behalf of those they represent.

As the IAA do not represent their own members, but all airsofters and avenues from the sport, imagine if they took time to get a vote of everyone?

Imagine even when dealing with the hundreds of iaa members, if they waited to get a say of everyone?

We would be looking at a different bill, and alot of different outcomes.

Stumbling and staggering and constantly having to " ask our members" to me says one of a few options.

There is no self confidence in their ability.
They do not understand the concept of their position and why they were elected.
They fear upsetting members, some members, or some entity of their organisation.

Due to the fact one man casts 600 votes, surely the process of contacting their members ad getting their votes, should be a simple phone call, one..phone call.

Perhaps it's the fact that (and I mean no offence to anyone here) that the 600 odd frag members represent a massive percentage of the market? I don't know, maybe?

Puding

still does not mean that one person should have the vote for all of them, if the 900 member figure is true that would mean that 1 person holds 2/3 of the vote e.g what he/frag vote for one always be passed

TheDoc

Puding wrote: »

still does not mean that one person should have the vote for all of them, if the 900 member figure is true that would mean that 1 person holds 2/3 of the vote e.g what he/frag vote for one always be passed

Thats exactly what I literally cannot get my head around....thank god I'm not the only one that read that and went " is that for real".

Stone.cold

how can 1 person cast a vote for 600 individuals? how do you prove this is what 599 individuals wanted and agreed to. i have watched this for a long time now, but its slipping into the realms of the utterly ridicules. can we not just open the "Really bad f**kin idea box" pop ISARA into it and move on with our sport.

gandalf

Extremely disappointing. The current committee of this IASRA organisation have been kept in the dark by the previous committee. The lack of knowledge of what was apparently agreed back in February is frightening and shows a complete lack of respect by the previous "leaders" of this organisation to the people who picked up the pieces they left behind.

The most damning thing that has come from these minutes is the following extract.

IAA tell IASRA about an incident that happened after the February meeting. IAA applied
to the Federation of Irish Sports (FIS) for recognition as a sport, i.e. Sports Council
recognition, which would open up the possibility of capitalisation grants. IAA Chair spent
several days writing up documentation.

At FIS AGM, Airsoft's standing as an official sport was NOT ratified; FIS were given
information that the IAA was not a governing body for Airsoft prior to their AGM.

Airsoft's recognition as a sport was blocked due to this. FIS and the Sports Council are
not interested in sports with two governing bodies, and this completely blocks Airsoft's
progression as an officially recognised sport.

FIS only agreed to progress with the recognition of Airsoft on the understanding that
there would be one governing and representative body. IAA will be recognised in
September, however sports funding may not be available until 2012

I am stating publicly that whoever did this is an enemy of airsoft in this country and they should hang their heads in shame that their pettiness and small minded approach may have cost us funding that could have helped further the exposure of the sport in a positive manner.

People like that should not have anything to do with any decisions effecting airsoft in this country ever again.

Fallschirmjager

i just checked frag international

http://fraginternational.com/2008/08/12/frag-dublin-update/

i am assuming this is the same international group...

as of last year they had 100 members. so in 385 or odd days they had 1-2 people join each day and every day???

ED E

Masada wrote: »

Is it possible for anyone to C+P the contents of the document? im unable to open it for some reason.
cheers,

If you still havent read it, here's a rich plain text file. (Boards dont allow .rtf )

Dr_Pepper

Ok i have taken my time to really think about what to say on this topic.

1. IASRA Committee, ie. Chair and Vice chair.

At this stage i recommend you go for the remaing positions within the IAA committee coz you were sold a lemon.

2. Chamber of Commerce

To all the retailers out there who Give a Toss about their future.
Pull together and get that damned thing setup without IASRA, without FRAG and focus on yourselves for one. Do it with the IAA and your sorted.

3. The rest of ya

Look at yourself. Stop judging others for 1 sec. If you want to volunteer your next year or 2 to help keep the sport alive then put your name forward.

If not, sign up so that those who are willing to sacrifice their own time can continue to do so. If you have not got an IAA card then you prolly need to renew your membership so get it done.

Mervenut

gerrowadat wrote: »

From http://www.iasra.net/



Not an EGM, but the IAA committee will be there to answer any concerns put to us.

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

That's welcome news, let's hope it moves things forward positively for both organisations!

gerrowadat

Mervenut wrote: »

That's welcome news, let's hope it moves things forward positively for both organisations!

Well, at the moment it looks like an opportunity for IASRA members to grill the IAA on issues they have (which are currently a mystery to me, so it should be interesting).

It'd be good to get a few IAA members along to hear what's going on, too.

Mervenut

gerrowadat wrote: »

Well, at the moment it looks like an opportunity for IASRA members to grill the IAA on issues they have (which are currently a mystery to me, so it should be interesting).

It'd be good to get a few IAA members along to hear what's going on, too.

As long as it doesen't descend into a slanging match between the members of both groups!!

Shiva

Mervenut wrote: »

As long as it doesen't descend into a slanging match between the members of both groups!!

I promise I'll behave

Shiva

gerrowadat wrote: »

It'd be good to get a few IAA members along to hear what's going on, too.

Is it open to IAA members ?

gerrowadat

Shiva wrote: »

Is it open to IAA members ?

Not 100%, the IASRA chair tod me it would be good to have some IAA members at it th other day, but it's their meeting.

And yes, constructiveness would be nice.

Shiva

gerrowadat wrote: »

Not 100%, the IASRA chair tod me it would be good to have some IAA members at it th other day, but it's their meeting.

And yes, constructiveness would be nice.

Well, if IAA members are allowed, I might attend.

As I stated earlier in this thread, the IASRA committee has changed, and so has my attitude to IASRA. I'd genuinely like to see a constructive meeting for all concerned.

Mervenut

gerrowadat wrote: »

Not 100%, the IASRA chair tod me it would be good to have some IAA members at it th other day, but it's their meeting.

And yes, constructiveness would be nice.

What about a neutral like me, could I come? I certainly would like the opportunity to see both groups "at work"!

gerrowadat

Mervenut wrote: »

What about a neutral like me, could I come? I certainly would like the opportunity to see both groups "at work"!

That'd be up to IASRA. It'd certainly be useful information for a neutral person looking for insight into both organisations, yes.

TheDoc

If it is open to all I would definitely be in attendance, and hopefully hearing from the IASRA commitee and being in the same room, might dispel some of the rampant myths and rumours surrounding their organisation.

jayod30

gerrowadat wrote: »

Well, at the moment it looks like an opportunity for IASRA members to grill the IAA on issues they have (which are currently a mystery to me, so it should be interesting).

It'd be good to get a few IAA members along to hear what's going on, too.

When will we know if its ok for IAA members to go? Surely if IASRA members can attend then in the interest of fair play then so can we

Stone.cold

jayod30 wrote: »

When will we know if its ok for IAA members to go? Surely if IASRA members can attend then in the interest of fair play then so can we

given its an IASRA meeting their members are entitled to be there.

Gizmodeon

Hey guys
the meeting is open to anyone in the iaa or iasra who wish to pose questions to the iaa commitee. We are both trying to get to the bottom of the question"why have people not joined the iaa?"
we are giving the iaa commitee the floor to have a chance to open the bridge of communication. There will also be a chance for both members to pose questions to the iasra commitee aswell.

Whatever guise iasra has been set up under, the current commitee have different plans, and we are feeling very optimistic after the meeting with the iaa.

With regards the chamber of commerce, if you are an iaa retailer/site owner I would reccomend speaking to the iaa commitee. Whatever iasra is now, the chamber of commerce will be completely different, we as commitee members will have nothing to do with it, and you can even change the name if you want, we are merely trying to set up a skeleton for the retailers to start with.Stephen fay has been very helpful with advice so far, and we will be working with the iaa to get this set up.

Mervenut

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Hey guys
the meeting is open to anyone in the iaa or iasra who wish to pose questions to the iaa commitee. We are both trying to get to the bottom of the question"why have people not joined the iaa?"
we are giving the iaa commitee the floor to have a chance to open the bridge of communication. There will also be a chance for both members to pose questions to the iasra commitee aswell.

Whatever guise iasra has been set up under, the current commitee have different plans, and we are feeling very optimistic after the meeting with the iaa.

With regards the chamber of commerce, if you are an iaa retailer/site owner I would reccomend speaking to the iaa commitee. Whatever iasra is now, the chamber of commerce will be completely different, we as commitee members will have nothing to do with it, and you can even change the name if you want, we are merely trying to set up a skeleton for the retailers to start with.Stephen fay has been very helpful with advice so far, and we will be working with the iaa to get this set up.

Thanks for the update Gizmo, has the venue and time been announced?

Gizmodeon

With regards with iasra just disbanding,sadly this is not as easy as it seems,
we have a lot to consider for instance to transfer our members to the iaa we need to abide by the data protection act.also if we close down asap there is nothing stopping another organization rising out of the ashes, we both recognize the benefits of one organization at this stage, and want to avoid this happening.

With regards to frag, we are looking into the voting system, as current frag have elected a new president. When we get more information we will post it up.


We are still trying to tie down a venue, we will announce as soon as possible.

Tommyboy71

It's nice to see some good positive progress on this instead of the usual "he said, she said" nonsense. Well done to both parties.

Moromaster

Could someone pass a link to the chatroom?

gerrowadat

Moromaster wrote: »

Could someone pass a link to the chatroom?

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=71

Mervenut

gerrowadat wrote: »

From http://www.iasra.net/



Not an EGM, but the IAA committee will be there to answer any concerns put to us.

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

Any news on a venue for the meeting on wednesday yet, or is it a closely guarded secret?

TheDoc

Can I safely assume this has been canned so I can actually make plans for tomorrow night?

Mervenut

Nothing on either IASRA or IAA websites, so looks like it's not happening to me!

TheDoc

Got a phone call saying there is nothing happening, a venue could not be acquired. : /

So looks like no jump this week

Gizmodeon

Hey guys,
The meeting will be postponed momentarily while we try to find a venue, sadly everwhere we've checked at the moment seems to be booked out!
if anyone has any suggestions please let us know

-Mariel
Iasra Vice Chairperson