Important - UCD Health Services Charges 09/10

El Siglo

Folks, the shit has finally hit the fan, this is the email one of my friends in UCD just received today:

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From: Vice-President for Students [mailto:vpstudents@ucd.ie]
Sent: 24 August 2009 15:46
To: All UCD Students
Subject: UCD Student Health Service Charges 2009/2010
UCD Student Health Service Charges 2009/2010

vpstudents@ucd.ie

24 Aug. 09
Dear UCD Student,
Prior to your return to campus we would like to bring to your attention a change in the UCD Student Health Service.

UCD is committed to providing UCD students with access to a comprehensive Student Health Service which complements their existing medical services (family GP etc). In the current economic climate UCD must change the way it funds this service. It is no longer possible to maintain a free service for all students. From September 7th 2009 students will be charged for services offered by the UCD Student Health Service. These charges will enable UCD maintain the current level of medical services and also provide a platform for additional services. The services operated by UCD Student Counselling will remain free of charge.

UCD and the UCD Students’ Union are working together to ensure that these charges are introduced in a fair and considered fashion.

Medical Card

In parallel with this decision, UCD will conduct an information campaign to ensure that all students are made aware of how to establish their entitlements under the State’s Medical Card scheme. UCD Student Health Service will facilitate the use of a Medical Card/GP Visit Card to cover applicable services where one is presented at time of appointment. Please refer to the UCD Student Handbook for further details or contact the UCD Students’ Union or visit www.hse.ie.

Student Welfare Fund

In addition, UCD will work with the various support structures within the university to ensure that no student will be deprived of health services due to financial difficulties.

The Student Welfare Fund is one such source of funding that can be accessed in case of financial difficulty. This can be instigated after a medical appointment. For further information on how to apply go to www.ucd.ie/student_welfare.htm#SWF or contact the UCD Students’ Union Welfare Officer, Scott Ahern (welfare@ucdsu.ie).

Charges

The following schedule of charges will apply from September 7th 2009.

Nurse visit: 10 euro*

Doctors visit: 25 euro

Psychiatrist Consultation: 40 euro

* If a student is referred by the nurse to a UCD doctor under the triage system, the 10 euro nurse charge will not apply.

Existing charges for special services such as travel vaccines will continue.

Services operated by UCD Student Counselling will remain free of charge.

Medical Bills

Payment for using the Student Health Service will not be made at time of appointment; instead the appropriate charge will be made to the student’s confidential health service account. No medical details are recorded on this. Where a student presents a valid Medical Card/GP Visit Card at the point of consultation, the charge will be zero.

Students will be expected to clear outstanding student health service account charges within 10 days of using the UCD Health Service. Payment can be made by the student using a credit/debit card facility on the web. Receipts can be print as required.

In cases of financial difficulty an application to the Student Welfare Fund or other funding sources may be made after using the UCD Health Service. All students presenting at the UCD Student Health Service are treated independently of their health service account status.

Regards,

Martin Butler, Vice-President for Students

Garry Redmond, SU President 2009/2010

I wonder if UCDSU will have a sit-in over this?

ravydavygravy

Surely €25 for a doctors visit isn't a lot to pay? A regular non-college doctor will cost ~€60...

I never understood why the health service in UCD was free....

Dave

Fad

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Surely €25 for a doctors visit isn't a lot to pay? A regular non-college doctor will cost ~€60...

I never understood why the health service in UCD was free....

Dave

+1, while it'd be lovely to have a free service, a greatly reduced price one is still pretty damn good.

Feel free to go off campus for your health needs. .

El Siglo

Fad wrote: »

+1, while it'd be lovely to have a free service, a greatly reduced price one is still pretty damn good.

Feel free to go off campus for your health needs. .

You're better off seeing your own gp, it takes a good week to see the one in UCD!

Mardy Bum

Well for f**k sake! Absolute joke. I blame the bankers! I better not run into one anytime soon!

Fad

El Siglo wrote: »

You're better off seeing your own gp, it takes a good week to see the one in UCD!

I dont have one.........

I've been to see a doctor once in the past 8 or so years, and that was to get a pile of vaccines, whether I've needed to see a doctor or not is another story.

dajaffa

I can't say I'm suprised that there is a fee coming in as the funding was slashed as the library has been designated to fall under "student services" so it can take money out of the reg fee to cover the funding cuts, but €25 is a fair whack + I'm appauled that its €40 for a psych consult. That could at least have been €25 too. After all the mental health issues affecting ucd students in recent years surely it's worth subsidising that particular service to a greater degree.

I'm off to get my angry lefty on...

EDIT: Even more annoying is they could've had students with medical cards presenting them for the last few years as a way of funding it, only now with charges coming in have they bothered to sort that out.

Mardy Bum

dajaffa wrote: »

I can't say I'm suprised that there is a fee coming in as the funding was slashed as the library has been designated to fall under "student services" so it can take money out of the reg fee to cover the funding cuts,

I hear they are putting meters beside sockets in the library aswell rip every cent out of us:cool::mad:
God knows the day may come even though i joke!

I've always personally been against the charging for college health services... twice, assuming the Student Health Centre in UCD receives money as the TCD one does through the Registration Fee. And I think that €25 is a lot of money even if it is cheaper than heading to a local doctor.

/wanders back to the shadows

Stepherunie

This is an appalling move, though not surprising given Dr Butler had previously wanted to charge our international students through the roof for using the health centre in UCD because they had to have health insurance when in Ireland.

The attitude held by Dr Butler with regard to the health centre in UCD is purely business, he believes we should have the DCU model whereby it will be a money making enterprise.

25e is a huge amount of money when you're in college. I was lucky that I come from a middle class background so I could have afforded that fee, but for some, particularly those borderline for grants this is nothing short of an abuse. It's going to lead to in more and more students not seeking medical treatment when they need it.

I also think it's awful that you had to pay the higher fee if the nurse refers you onto the Dr. They should try and at least act like they care about students and should attempt to have a 'lowest fee applicable' type situation.

sweet-rasmus

i'm not happy about the charges. Every cent counts when you are a student. It's all very sudden.

errlloyd

Very sudden agreed, possible some sort of system for boarders in particular where they get a certain level of free care would be ideal.

I'm a first year but from what I hear the facilities were often abused in the case of hangover and to get the old birth control note, maybe this will stop that a little.

delta_bravo

I still think €25 is decent value for a visit.

However what annoyed me is that is spoke to the president elect last year and I remember the student health centre funds being described as 'ringfenced' to prevent any increase.

Butler played it very well getting Redmonds name on the email aswell. No idea why Redmond agreed to that. The SU cant complain about fees when they are supporting what are in effect 'health fees' now being implemented

Pride Fighter

delta_bravo wrote: »

I still think €25 is decent value for a visit.

However what annoyed me is that is spoke to the president elect last year and I remember the student health centre funds being described as 'ringfenced' to prevent any increase.

Butler played it very well getting Redmonds name on the email aswell. No idea why Redmond agreed to that. The SU cant complain about fees when they are supporting what are in effect 'health fees' now being implemented

Every member of the SU is in favour of fees. 3 Fianna Failers and 2 Fine Galers. This move does not surprise me, Hugh Brady and his cronie Richard Butler dont give a crap about students, they only care about their bank balance.

dajaffa

Its going to be particularly rough now as the government are going to radically change the medical card criteria as with the amount of people unemployed the costs will skyrocket under the current criteria.

If the government actually gave the reg fee increase this year to the colleges we probably wouldn't be facing this, but naturally thats ending up covering the debts of irresponsible banks.

KeyLimePie

Now I'm not just gonna bulldoze in and start complaining about being charged for a health service in the college, cause at the moment it can't be maintained and I know one girl with a medical card and she goes in for every little thing under the son so charging is gonna get rid of these time wasters, however i think charges are too much all together.

Going from zero to 25 is too much, i'd say bring it down to 10 euro each instead of fleecing us all together

Zuffer

People complain about losing free stuff! News at 11.

I see a lot of weird comments about Brady only being interested in money, etc. We all know that UCD funding from the govt is being slashed. They either have to cut costs or raise revenue somehow. Or not pay the staff working in the health centre. Or cut somewhere else. Presumably he decided this was the least bad option.

I'm not defending the cuts. Maybe they're the right move. Maybe they are the wrong move. What I'm really disappointed with is the shallow and selfish nature of the criticisms.

I would love if comments said things like 'Brady should have cut funding to X area before cutting health'. For example, he could
- cut sports funding
- cut society funding
- fire some staff, maybe have less porters or cleaners.

Of course, then you have to justify why having, say, a dirtier campus (or no L&H or rugby team or whatever) is less bad than having to pay €25 for the doctor.

For the record, I've never used the health service, and I bet that the majority of students will have at most 1 and probably zero visits during their time at UCD.

We're in college to learn, and part of that is learning critical thinking skills and being able to objectively evaluate things. Instead I see moans about not getting enough cheap/free stuff and how Hugh Brady must be stuffing all the cash he is saving into his Swiss bank account.

Mardy Bum

Society funding is ridiculous that must have been cut somewhat. Cut the UCD soccer team! God knows how much that costs!!

Pride Fighter

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Society funding is ridiculous that must have been cut somewhat. Cut the UCD soccer team! God knows how much that costs!!

It costs little or nothing. They pay the players little, they mainly offer them scholarships to study in the College. The FAI gives out prize money to UCD each year and sponsorship revenue comes in too. UCD AFC is also affiliated to Pegasus AFC, a team for UCD graduates who want to continue play football.

Pride Fighter

Zuffer wrote: »

We're in college to learn, and part of that is learning critical thinking skills and being able to objectively evaluate things. Instead I see moans about not getting enough cheap/free stuff and how Hugh Brady must be stuffing all the cash he is saving into his Swiss bank account.

I agree that we are here to learn. But UCD is a community as well. People get sick, it is unfair to charge them to visit a doctor. Also you obviously dont know Hugh Brady that well. His offshore bank account is in the Cayman Islands not Switzerland.

Zuffer

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I agree that we are here to learn. But UCD is a community as well.

True

Pride Fighter wrote: »

People get sick

True

Pride Fighter wrote: »

it is unfair to charge them to visit a doctor

Maybe.

If you honestly think that from the limited resources that the college has, some of it should be devoted to keeping the clinic free, I respect that.
Provided that you acknowledge that something else somewhere in the budget would have to give. I'm not saying that you need to identify or quantify it, here and now. But you have to acknowledge that UCD doesn't just wave a magic wand to make things appear and disappear, and that choosing the free health service implicitly means choosing it over something else.

But if you think that students should get free stuff, without giving any thought to who provides it or has to make sacrifices to give it to you, well - I feel that is not a virtuous position to hold.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Also you obviously dont know Hugh Brady that well. His offshore bank account is in the Cayman Islands not Switzerland.

My mistake. Should have done the research.

Pride Fighter

Zuffer wrote: »

If you honestly think that from the limited resources that the college has, some of it should be devoted to keeping the clinic free, I respect that.
Provided that you acknowledge that something else somewhere in the budget would have to give. I'm not saying that you need to identify or quantify it, here and now. But you have to acknowledge that UCD doesn't just wave a magic wand to make things appear and disappear, and that choosing the free health service implicitly means choosing it over something else.

But if you think that students should get free stuff, without giving any thought to who provides it or has to make sacrifices to give it to you, well - I feel that is not a virtuous position to hold.

I think the paypackets of staff earning over 100 k should be hit before frontline student services. If Hugh Brady was to take a 50% paycut the health centre could operate for free.

dajaffa

Zuffer wrote: »

I would love if comments said things like 'Brady should have cut funding to X area before cutting health'.

Ok here's 3, the health centre should have retained funding ahead of:

- Every windows PC in health science being replaced with new macines this summer. Few were not in working order and for the rest a format and reinstall would have had them going like new.

- The VP for research getting over €400k las year. The notion that top university staff should get paid the equivalent of what they get in the private sector is nonsense, they get benefits like pensions, leave + job security etc. Half that is still an extremely generous salary.

- Group mail together. I was rather irked when last week my lil bro got a number of letters due to his acceptance of a place. Surely they could manage sending UCD and school orientation stuff together if we're that strapped for cash?

I'm not anti cutback as I'm smart enough to know some have to happen, but the level of health centre cutbacks is ridiculous when you see some of the spending that goes on in ucd.

Mardy Bum

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It costs little or nothing. They pay the players little, they mainly offer them scholarships to study in the College. The FAI gives out prize money to UCD each year and sponsorship revenue comes in too. UCD AFC is also affiliated to Pegasus AFC, a team for UCD graduates who want to continue play football.

Most of the UCD soccer first team are not in college in UCD. The players are paid more than teams like Longford and that is first hand information. There is no way a soccer team can cost little or nothing. UCD students even get in free to matchs in Belfield so explain to me where day to day revenue comes from?

Mick27

First off,

these new charges were decided upon in May under the last UCDSU.

Funding had to be cut!!! in the student survey done by the SU the library was the most highly rated service so obviously this had to be maintained!!! (according to the students)

The Counselling Service is ringfenced!
I know the psychiastrist fee is steep but if a student can't pay it they can go to the welfare fund!

I know the charges aren't nice but €25 isn't that much of a fee, what would a student spend on a night out????

I think the SU got the best deal possible in the tight limits that they had to work in. You can scream and shout all you want and you could have done so too in May but it wouldn't have achieved anything!

The Contraception Clinic is back and in the email butler said they may add services!

To the person who said it takes a week to see the doctor if you're very ill you go in and see the nurse and she usually sends you in to see the doctor straigt away if it's a prescription you need you'll have to wait and book and appointment as these are services you avail of form your own GP.

Mardy Bum

Mick27 wrote: »

To the person who said it takes a week to see the doctor if you're very ill you go in and see the nurse and she usually sends you in to see the doctor straigt away if it's a prescription you need you'll have to wait and book and appointment as these are services you avail of form your own GP.

No you can be given a prescription immediately as I have been before after being sent in by the nurse.

Extrasupervery

After reading through all of the living expenses threads I have come to the conclusion that if the average (or so it seems) student is willing to spend 60 quid a week on alcohol, then complaining about spending 25 quid on the occasional doctors visit makes you look idiotic.

munchie14

i dont really have a problem with this,,the most i would spend would be between 50 and 100 euro in the year
im surprised people are giving out about this so much considering the increasse of reg fees(think went from 900 to 1500)and the 'possible' introduction of fees. the medical fees are minimal in comparision

if you all want something to give out about,let it be the 'possible' fees,if we do things right we could save ourselves thosands,never mind a measly hundred or 2

Riamfada

Are the Union taking a stand on this?

errlloyd

Extrasupervery wrote: »

After reading through all of the living expenses threads I have come to the conclusion that if the average (or so it seems) student is willing to spend 60 quid a week on alcohol, then complaining about spending 25 quid on the occasional doctors visit makes you look idiotic.

You don't understand. You need to take the amount you spend on the doctor as a percentage increase on the amount you spend on alcohol. If 50 bills on alcohol ends in the doctors, its like spending 75 euro on alcohol.

Stepherunie

Grimes wrote: »

Are the Union taking a stand on this?

Doubtful seeing as Garys name was on the email.

IrishKnight

Stepherunie wrote: »

Doubtful seeing as Garys name was on the email.

But if they get a mandate from the student body they will be forced to take a stand...

Riamfada

IrishKnight wrote: »

But if they get a mandate from the student body they will be forced to take a stand...

But someone will have to bring it up in council and then they will have to vote on it. Who wants to be the one to rock the boat. Shame that there is no student opposition to this at all

Stepherunie

Iirc there is already a mandate from 2 years ago mandating all Union officers to campaign against fees in the health centre

Council had a meeting with Dr Martin Butler when I was the 4th Radiography Rep on Council whereby we discussed the funding implications and the general consensus was if additional services such as Dentistry etc were to be provided noone had a problem with fees for those services as they were deemed to be auxiliary. But no one agreed with fees for students for the basic Dr and Nurse service. It should also be pointed out that the maths he used to justify the fee were absolutely awful and didn't work at all.

The Exec work as the decision making body over the summer months so it'd be interesting to see if they discussed this.

I'd also like to know what the implications will be for all healthcare students, will they be charged 4x10e for there 3 Hep B vaccinations and for there blood tests also?

1968

An unfair and sudden decision.

It's also a real kick in the teeth after the 50%+ increase in annual Reg. fees.

panda100

The Student Unions new Suicide prevention slogan:

Please Talk*
*but only If you have €40 in your pocket.

Absolutely disgraceful stuff. Hope students fight against this

parker kent

If it reduces the amount of time wasters going there (people not really sick but are just looking for notes to get extensions etc) then it is a good thing. It is still cheaper than any outside GP will charge. They give a good service considering the amount of students they have to serve so I would not begrudge them the charge.

As was said above, cutbacks had to be made somewhere. This option is more OK than some others as it will not effect everybody. If it was a choice between this and say, library funding, I know what I and I'm sure most others would prefer. Instead of this, the Union should worry about getting decent food in the restaurant or about getting the money back they wasted on seating last year.

Riamfada

Stepherunie wrote: »

The Exec work as the decision making body over the summer months

As Dr Hibbert would say .... "Dear God"



To be honest, the increase in registration fees, the student center levy and the possiblity of fees coupled with this just goes to show that UCD continue to look at the immediate gains rather than the big picture.

I think for the first time in almost 5 years, Panda100 and I agree on something. :pac:


UCD needs to centralise its expenses rather than cutting bits of everything cut things that are actually completely unimportant such as postering. Im sure the entire postering budget could keep the health service going for a few months.

Het-Field

My folks heard Gary Redmond on the radio this morning. They were asking me why anybody would have voted for him. I cant believe he would public defend it. At least pay lip service.

Stepherunie

parker kent wrote: »

If it reduces the amount of time wasters going there (people not really sick but are just looking for notes to get extensions etc) then it is a good thing. It is still cheaper than any outside GP will charge. They give a good service considering the amount of students they have to serve so I would not begrudge them the charge.

As was said above, cutbacks had to be made somewhere. This option is more OK than some others as it will not effect everybody. If it was a choice between this and say, library funding, I know what I and I'm sure most others would prefer. Instead of this, the Union should worry about getting decent food in the restaurant or about getting the money back they wasted on seating last year.

Food in the restaurant is better than decent healthcare for all students????? We need to ensure those who truly need treatment can go to the dr rather than avoid it just so they can buy food for a week??????????

Yes the restaraunt food is bad, it always has been, so what, bring your own lunch in with you. Healthcare is vastly more important. Particularly with the Swine Flu epidemic. Do you want to see someone die because they didn't go to the Dr in time because they didn't get a grant this year and they couldn't afford the 25e to go to a Dr and didn't know about the welfare fund, because I'm telling you that could happen.

Very few people know about the welfare fund because it's never well publicised enough.

Riamfada

Het-Field wrote: »

My folks heard Gary Redmond on the radio this morning. They were asking me why anybody would have voted for him. I cant believe he would public defend it. At least pay lip service.

This is where I bang my head off the wall and ask you is it a Union in term of SIPTU is a Union? Would the head of SIPTU be defending a rise in charges for their members or the INTO losing health benifits as the same time as their taxes increase.

UCDSU is NOT a Union !!

Stepherunie

panda100 wrote: »

The Student Unions new Suicide prevention slogan:

Please Talk*
*but only If you have €40 in your pocket.

Absolutely disgraceful stuff. Hope students fight against this

Though I'm still totally agreeing with you, just in case you didn't know councillor services will remain free at least. Psychiatric appointments will not however. Thank god for some good news, no matter how small.

Riamfada

Just to state Steph's point again

Iirc there is already a mandate from 2 years ago mandating all Union officers to campaign against fees in the health centre

So even with a mandate the Union just ignore the decision of council and give a +1 to the health care fees? I understand that times are tough but this summer postgrads made a stand about Library closing times without the help from anyone in the union and the opening times were promptly changed to benifit the paying students and not the budget. I wonder what UCD will charge for next. Car Parking .... oh wait

Thomas_S_Hunterson

FFS I didn't know it was free up until now.

€25 is still cheaper than my GP.

1968

Facebook group "Oppose Student Health Services Fees in UCD".

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=125135332957&ref=nf

Riamfada

There is talk on indymedia about setting up a second Students Union. Now bear in mind that it is indymedia. But still, its heading like rough seas for this years Sabats.

Easily done, under Article 40 of the real Constitution you can request your SU union membership fee back and give it to a new union and madate them to fight against the college on healthcare charges.

OnlyTwoInter

I have it on good authority that one member of UCDSU made this decision without much consulation with his fellow sabbatical officers. Regardless of this, it is an absolute disgrace that this has been done without consultation with the student body within the relevant committees for making such decisions (Student Council, Exec), especially, as someone has already mentioned, it was within the Union Mandate to oppose the decision which has been made. I see no reason why this current UCD Sabbatical Team, and more specifically the incoming President, shouldn't face a motion of no confidence in the first council of the year.

parker kent

Stepherunie wrote: »

Food in the restaurant is better than decent healthcare for all students????? We need to ensure those who truly need treatment can go to the dr rather than avoid it just so they can buy food for a week??????????

Yes the restaraunt food is bad, it always has been, so what, bring your own lunch in with you. Healthcare is vastly more important. Particularly with the Swine Flu epidemic. Do you want to see someone die because they didn't go to the Dr in time because they didn't get a grant this year and they couldn't afford the 25e to go to a Dr and didn't know about the welfare fund, because I'm telling you that could happen.

Very few people know about the welfare fund because it's never well publicised enough.

But as I say there already is decent healthcare for students. We will now have a cheap option instead of free. I just have memories of being very, very sick last year and being told that they could not fit me in. Then after I left I got a text from a classmate who saw me in there who it turns out was just in to get a note for an essay she didn't bother doing in time. So she made up an illness to get a note from the doc. That was my point, get rid of the time wasters to free up space for the actual sick people. They are not charging that much; much less than the €60 you pay anywhere else. Something had to give somewhere. It was this.

It is also a bit dramatic to say that charging €25 is going to cause people to die. Sure it sucks we have to pay if we need the doc, but over the top dramatics is not needed. I mentioned the restaurant as something off the top of my head that they could actually change. I never said the restaurant was more important than healthcare.

Plus on the who voted Gary Redmond point made above, do remember that only a fraction of students ever actually vote. Most people genuinely don't really care.

Riamfada

parker kent wrote: »

But as I say there already is decent healthcare for students. We will now have a cheap option instead of free. I just have memories of being very, very sick last year and being told that they could not fit me in. Then after I left I got a text from a classmate who saw me in there who it turns out was just in to get a note for an essay she didn't bother doing in time. So she made up an illness to get a note from the doc. That was my point, get rid of the time wasters to free up space for the actual sick people. They are not charging that much; much less than the €60 you pay anywhere else. Something had to give somewhere. It was this.

It is also a bit dramatic to say that charging €25 is going to cause people to die. Sure it sucks we have to pay if we need the doc, but over the top dramatics is not needed. I mentioned the restaurant as something off the top of my head that they could actually change. I never said the restaurant was more important than healthcare.

Plus on the who voted Gary Redmond point made above, do remember that only a fraction of students ever actually vote. Most people genuinely don't really care.

Well by the same logic you could bring in fees to "get rid of the time wasters" thus punishing the genuine who require the service.


I know this is a massive turn around by the G-man but I cant ignore morals

parker kent

Grimes wrote: »

Well by the same logic you could bring in fees to "get rid of the time wasters" thus punishing the genuine who require the service.

Well actually now that you say that...:D

Riamfada

I know that this will all blow over in a few days but its a shame that this is the way it has to be. Students are too apathetic and the authorities know it.