Issues with son

LegacyUser

im worried about my son and ruinning out of ideas how to go forward with this situation.
He is 20 years old and spends 95% of his life in his bedroom and has done so all his life.
he has never really had a friend for a significant period of time.

he is gay and this was noted by myself and wife at a young age (13). we did assist him and
encourage him in discovering his sexual identity without judgement. We have had many dicussions with him and sent him for counselling down through the years to ensure he has all
the opportunity a child could have to become a well rounded capable adult.

Any friendships he has had have been conducted from his bedroom and have been sexually motivated.
he has attracted sexual deviants like flies down through the years.
he has no interests beyond entertainment a computer can provide.
he is in college doing a degree course but does not get involved and only attends the
minimum. this would be the only challenge he has in life.
he can be helpfull around the house when asked and he has a pleasent relaxed demeanor in general.

my main problem is that with virtually no challenge or zest for life i dont see him progressing to being a happy competent adult. Any suggestions appreciated.

LegacyUser

There is an organisation called Belong To which provides councilling and support for young people who are gay. I would try to sit your son down and talk to him-even if he tries to shy away from talking persist with it. He sounds like a very unhappy young man-its good he has parents who care so much about him.

CDfm

Jeez Paddy -lighten up a bit.

I have a 19 yo son and I don't analyse his friendships or sexual orientation though my son is hetero.

Its up to your son to work out his own way be he gay straight or bi-sexual and his sexuality should not be a real issue for you. If I asked #1 son about his relationships he would be embarrassed.

Being with it and all understanding would embarrassing and we have a close relationship. If he is having friends around or going to a party I might supply some beers. Having friends around probably a slab of cider.

Your gripe seems to be that he doesn't go out much and get hammered like other kids.

If you are going out for a few beers ask him along. If he wants friends around irrespective of their orientation make it easier on him.

Thats my 10cents.

LegacyUser

@unreg thanks for your encouragement. we did the belong too thing when he was 15. I cant stress enough how brilliant this group is and how much support they gave us. we have done the long talks and councelling etc. its difficult when u know your kids are not as happy as they deserve to be.

@cdfm thanks for your input but i think u may have read it a bit fast as u missed some stuff there

Fiend-Foe

Perhaps all this counseling and "long talks" etc regarding his sexuality are having the opposite to intended effect and you are creating issues and hurdles in his mind which may not need to be overcome. 13-15 is a very young age to start going to counseling and support groups etc and that isn't what most kids that age would be doing. Maybe he feels he is different to others his age because of all this. I know you had the best intentions in doing this.

CDfm

Unregistered wrote: »

@cdfm thanks for your input but i think u may have read it a bit fast as u missed some stuff there

No really I think you can overdo the openess stuff. Having sexual partners back to your parents house is a bit weird. Ask any kid.

I am just suggesting you do normal stuff bring him to Sunday lunch or the pub and talk nothing personal at all.Ask him to go to Tower Records for some CDs with you. Try it.

What you are looking to do is more of the same and your guy is not interested -you are doing it for you not him.You are what my 16 yo daughter would call a tryhard. Sorry if thats harsh but its how it comes accross.

Elessar

Has he told you he is unhappy?

Ickle Magoo

I'm not sure what's gone on that required your son to receive "counselling down through the years" or why that would necessarily "ensure he has all the opportunity a child could have to become a well rounded capable adult"...one doesn't always follow the other, in fact the opposite can happen.

Obviously your post is only a tiny snapshot of what is going on but from an outsider's perspective it comes across as quite negative about your son - it also reads that you are concentrating a bit too much on him being your vision of a happy adult. At 20, he is already an adult. There is only one person who can decide what makes your son happy & whether he is happy or not - and that's your son.

I think you could try taking a few steps back. Maybe assume he is happy and living his life as he wishes & see if that helps?

Best of luck.

LegacyUser

My heart goes out to you cos we had a similiar experience.It's soul destroying to see a young adult missing out on what should be the best years of his life. My son isn't gay but the rest of your story is a carbon copy of ours. He spent all his time alone too, - no friends, no sport, curtains pulled in his room, for the most of his teenage years. Like your son he was a lovely lad, but quiet and introverted and not a macho bone in his body. What changed for us was when he left home at 19 to go to college. Slowly over the next few years he began to make friends - mostly lads like himself. He had to share accommodation with other lads and I suppose he began to see there was more to life than he had been experiencing. Now he is in a good job, in a lovely relationship and with lots going for him. It took ages but I think he's out of the woods. I hope you get some practical advice to help with your son, - there must be so many parents who have been there. Its a fine line between giving the support he needs and being overly-anxious, but it seems like you did all the right things. Good Luck!

LegacyUser

OP sometimes being too eager too talk can be counter productive. At that age my own parents were always analysing me. I felt that i had to watch what i said or done. If you keep wanting these big long 'talks' then he will feel less able to be spontanoeus . I am not saying dont listen i am just saying dont turn every day a couch session

I could be way of with this observation sometimes its hard to judge something without being there but its a consideration

CDfm

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think you could try taking a few steps back. Maybe assume he is happy and living his life as he wishes & see if that helps?

I think this is very sensible advice.

Cianos

While I appreciate the perspective of those saying not to worry and to just let him figure things out by himself, at the same time, as a young lad he shouldn't be spending so much time in his room by himself. It's easier to do this nowadays with computers...and by the sounds of it all his requirements are being appeased by the computer. It's during these years that he should be developing his social skills, meeting people out in the real world etc. How to achieve this without mollycoddling him is the question.

OP, if college didn't bring him out of his shell, maybe a job would? If he had to pay rent and bills, it'd be more of a challenge to him.

LegacyUser

thanks for the replies, some interesting stuff there.

some replies...

the talks we have with him only happen once or twice a year and spread over a number of years so its not so invasive on him. the subjects of the talks are not usually about problems or failings but more likely encouragement & opportunaties. for example we have done stuff like encourage him to go to a gay camp abroad. which he did and had a fantastic time. we offered him a holiday in greece which he went on with a "friend". his sexuality is not discussed as its not an issue. everything is done quite subtle and normally has a very positive opportunity for him. Positivity and encouragement is a cornerstone of our approach as opposed to negative finger wagging.

when we brought him to "belong to" when he was 15, it was a process of suggestion and encouragenment over a couple of months until he himself liked the idea.
also around this time he himself told us he wasnt really happy inside and didnt know why. we suggested he talk to someone who may be able to help him understand his feelings and he was happy to do so. he attended councelling and was happy he got a lot out of it and understood himself a lot better etc.

@unreg with similar son who blossomed when he went to college, thanks for sharing your story. my son has 3 more years in college but we live close by. he is very comfy here and i would guess he will stay here as long as he can and remain in his comfort zone.

@Cianos u are spot on about where he should be at with life etc. we have tried the part time job thing but these jobs dont last because he does not want to do them. he purposely fails to maintain proper communication with his employers.

paying rent and bills and real adult life is still 3 years away at least for him and even then he may chose to continue to live with us and remain in his bedroom...

cafecolour

Sounds like me at that age - I'm gay and was/am a good bit of a computer geek.

I've slowly become more extroverted as I've gotten older, and learned better social skills. I'd say I had mild asperger's or similar, and was a bit shy. The homosexuality fed into it a bit, but honestly, I'd say it's just like a fair number of lads (probably some on here) who just spend enormous amount of time surfing the web/playing world of warcraft/what not and just get hooked on the computer. Overall, I get along far better with your standard hetero geeky type than gay club kids or the similar.

I was always happy enough when I'm on the computer, but then when I'm not on it I was often irritated I spent so much time on the computer instead of socializing or similar.

What can you do? Well, you could see if he knows about boards and maybe he'll go to a boards beers

And you can encourage him to move out above all - even if you have to pay rent for a shared flat for him or something. Because living with flat mates is the easiest way to meet friends, and living at home during uni has been a significant social detriment to most of the friends I've known that have done so.

Reflector

Hi Paddy,

Just firstly I want to say that your son is very lucky to have such an openminded father, but it is worrying that he isn't enjoying life as much as he should.

Now the gay thing. I would say that this is a factor but there is plenty of straight guys who do the same thing. Maybe he doesn't see a future for himself and a main problem for young gay men is that they don't have many good role models. They may not see that they may be able to have a happy life as a gay man and the people he meets off the net are definitely not the former. I am not sure how to address this. I am gay myself and was unhappy for many years but I didn't spend all my time alone. joined a gay rugby team two years ago and made some great friends, there is all sorts of gay organisations that are very welcoming. There is even a group that go hiking.

I would be concerned that he may be slipping further into depression and obviously this can be quite dangerous. I think all you can do is continue to try and advise and encourage.

Maybe some music lessons, martial arts, something to focus him off surfing the net and especially from meeting up with people for sexual encounters.
Something like classical guitar, it's very technical and takes a lot of practice and is very enjoyable and accessible with a good teacher. Also have to learn all the music theory and such.

Especially don't give up on him. At 25 I found new confidence I didn't know I had it just seemed to take hold as I matured. Many people dont make friends until college. He is still very young and it is a difficult time,

MizzLolly

Paddy Murphy28 wrote: »

paying rent and bills and real adult life is still 3 years away at least for him and even then he may chose to continue to live with us and remain in his bedroom...

Hey OP. I can't give a parent's input here but I'm the same age as your son so I hope my post will be helpful. The bit I quoted above screamed out at me from your post. Your son is 20 years old, he's not a child. ''Paying rent, bills and real adult life'' is what I've been doing for the last three years. Granted, not all people my age do the same but many of us do. Your son is not going to develop any independence or personality if he's constantly playing the child's role. I'm really sorry if I sound harsh and please don't take it offensively but he sounds like a very priveledged (dare I say spoilt) boy. I could be wrong and I'm very sorry if I am but it sounds as though he has zero responsibilities and at 20 this is not healthy. You said he's had jobs that haven't worked out because he doesn't want to work. That's a really unimpressive trait for him to have and as a female his own age, I know that I wouldn't make any effort to get to know somebody with such little ambition/drive/motivation.

I'm going to warrant a guess here that yourself and your wife have been and still are model parents, cooking for him, cleaning, providing him with a safe, well maintained environment to come home to, keeping him financially secure etc. It's always great to know that your parents will look after you but I think it can be quite detrimental to a young person's development if their parents do too much for them. He needs to get out there and get a life. So what if he doesn't like working? I didn't have a choice. I needed to pay my own rent, college fees, transport etc. I couldn't afford to be in my room all day playing online. I grew up quickly when I realised I had bills to pay. Your son has it too easy by the sound of things. Give him a bit of a challenge, let him earn his own cash, iron his own clothes etc. He's not an awkward 16 year old, he's a 20 year old adult.

Also, I don't think his being gay has much to do with it. You've been very understanding with him about it, I can't imagine his sexuality is what's making him behave like a sulking, spoilt child. The softly softly approach isn't working, he needs to man up I'm afraid. But as long as you keep allowing him to be a kid, he's gona play along.

Good luck (and fair play for being so open and cool about things )

CDfm

I think it was the actor Cyril Cusack who said " Shyness is the illness of youth"

LegacyUser

@cafe, yes he seems to be exactly like you were. unfortunately we arent in a position
to be able to support him if he moved out now. also im not sure I would want to encourage
him to move out, i do think these things should go naturally.

@reflector, we will continue to advise and encourage. he will not try new things and
particularly anything that poses a challenge unfortunately. your story gives me encouragement thanks
I do also have hope that he will mature eventually and blossom.

@mizzlolly, there is nothing harsh about your words and you speek a truth. the privlege that my
children enjoy is a function of the hard work of myself and my wife. I will afford the privelege
of a 3rd level education and full family support to all my children to give them the best start in life.
i also had this privlege in life but i didnt take it for granted and i worked many hours and had numerous
interesting challenges. my wife didnt have this privlege and left home at a very young age so we do understand its value.
the lazyness with regards the jobs and pretty much everything is very much unimpressive and shamefull
as you point out.
as you point out he is mollycoddled and enjoys all the home benefits. he does however give us some
help around the house but this is still administered in a childish way. We do try to stimulate him and direct challenges
his way but nothing ever sticks. It does seem that as long as we allow him to act as a child he will
play along but I dont feel comfortable with forcing him into adulthood either as we have more kids and its important to treat
them the same.
the bottom line is, even tho he lives a bit of a privleged life, he should still develop his social skills
and generate some challenges for himself imho and i dont understand why this isnt happening.

@cdfm, wise words but hes definitely not shy!

rantyface

Is it possible that he is introverted and happy being alone for the time being?

I was quiet when I was younger and found all the encouragement to "come out of my shell" humiliating. I wasn't into computers, but I liked playing piano and collecting and pressing flowers and collecting shells, and had an interest in insects and spiders at an older age than would be normal. I didn't really care about friends. I was never shy. I was always outspoken, I just wasn't interested in friends. I have changed now, but it was in my late teens when it started, and girls apparently mature before boys.

If you have other children and they are what you consider "normal", then it probably isn't anything you have or haven't done in his upbringing. If he isn't the outgoing lad you think he should be, that's ok. There have always been bookworms, trainspotters and various other breeds of introverts in the world. It is especially common in teenaged boys.

If he is the oldest you could insist he gets a job to pay for his expenses like computer games, and contributes to the internet bill. If he's not the oldest and the older siblings didn't have to contribute, it's not fair.

You sound like very nice parents.

LegacyUser

Im of a similar age,I can understand why he might not want to relate to other people his age if he feels diffrent,people would be judging him(not everyone) and he probably feels it easier to sit in his room.

Trying giving him a hobby,throw him some interesting books about life,like Alan Watts etc and it might give him a completley new take on life.

miec

We do try to stimulate him and direct challenges his way but nothing ever sticks. It does seem that as long as we allow him to act as a child he will play along but I dont feel comfortable with forcing him into adulthood either as we have more kids and its important to treat them the same.
the bottom line is, even tho he lives a bit of a privleged life, he should still develop his social skills and generate some challenges for himself imho and i dont understand why this isnt happening.

Hi Op

I personally believe that MizzLolly has hit the nail on the head, and it is good that you acknowledge you molly coddle your son. However, you state you are uncomfortable with the idea of forcing him into adulthood, has it ever occurred to you that right now you are disempowering your son? You are enabling him to remain stuck and safe, he is not going to seek challenges himself whilst you enable him to hide in his room, do the occasional chore etc on his terms. If he is allowed to continue in this vein he will stay like this for as long as it suits him. I know you are doing your best for your son but you need to sometimes give a child a push, and to be honest you cannot treat all children the same because they all have different personalities. I had a similar problem as well but since I began to push my child get out more, the change has been dramatic and extremely positive.

CDfm

I agree- is he in any Clubs and Socs in college. How about him joining a gym?

There are some things kids need to find for themselves.

Could it be that in doing everything you are being controlling and making him dependent on you?

Beruthiel

Paddy,
I have a 21 yo daughter.
She has always had some sort of part time job since she was 16. That was because if she wanted spending money, she had to work for it.
Quit babying him. While you do, he will never gain any independence.
As you said yourself, he's in his comfort zone. Time to cut the apron strings and give him a little push.
As has been pointed out, he's 20 and no baby.

It is scarey to leave your comfort zone at any age, we all need a mental push with regards to that.
Sometimes you have to be a bit cruel to be kind.

I know you say you've done everything to help him along, but what is your actual relationship like with him?
Do you know if he is happy or not?

LegacyUser

Hi OP,


My younger sister had tendancies like your son (I mean the sitting in a room ones!). We're in our 30s now, so talking pre-internet days...

I always pushed ahead, she always hid away and developed an self-identity that was tied up with Star trek, or the nerdy stuff of our day... Me and her were close but very divided about how we were and we would fight viciously. My parents closeted her because she was the youngest and indulged her because they thought she would move on eventually. Now she's 35, still lives at home, has never had a long term relationship, and has a quite 'prickly' personality where she expects people to criticise or look down on her... and yet she is a 'normal', kind, functioning person. I believe that she was killed with kindness. A few years ago, I had a friend from an affluent background who was showing all the personality traits my sister did. She was maybe 22 at the time, so older than your son, but the parents tolerated the 'hiding away' for a few years and then told her she had to move out and make her own way - forcing her to deal with flatmates and all sorts. The same girl is now about 32 and a renowned beauty (not that she's see herself that way!) and making about 80k a year. Ok, I know its not that simple but I believe my parents abused my sister. They would argue that they treated her no different to the rest of us, - and she herself has said that she takes responsibility for how she turned out here (i.e people are who they are?) But I know that some day I am going to give my mother a (proverbial) kick in the teeth about her 'kindness'.

Sorry, I'm ranting. You sound like a lovely dad. Get the young lad into some kind of hobbie. Anything! Just so long as he's meeting people. Or give him an ultimatum about how if he doesn't live better, he'd better move out. It might be the making of him, you know. But you job is to be parents, not to be soft. There is nothing that raises self esteem fast like standing on your feet... or sporty stuff. Martial arts?

Monkey61

OP I'll echo what most other posters have said. You need to cut the apron strings. You are smothering your son, and I would say that is abuse on some level.

He is an adult. He needs to stand on his own two feet or he will never be happy. Why on earth would you want to raise a work shy son who never has to do anything for himself and is waited on hand and foot? That is not the way to raise a balanced and well rounded son. The bottom line is that despite your intentions to do that, you haven't! He is not balanced at all. All the positivity and encouragement hasn't worked.

I applaud you trying to do your best for him, but sending him away to a gay camp abroad? Good time or not that is a bit weird. Belongto and all that I am sure are great, but to be honest it doesn't sound like any of that has been great for your son. Instead of being out in the world embracing himself and his sexuality, he is hiding away from all human interaction in his bedroom. Forcing him to segregate himself at a young age because of his sexuality has done just that, it has segregated him from the world.

If you don't do something now, he is going to still be in exactly the same position when he is 30. If you want him to lead a happy and fulfilling life, now is the time for tough love. He needs to get a job and he needs to move out. He clearly has a lot of time on his hands. Tell him that he needs to start paying you rent. Give him a deadline by which he needs to get a job and then give him a deadline by which he needs to move out. It is more than possible to pay rent and live outside the home whilst on a part time wage in Ireland. I did it for years. Honestly OP, it will be the kindest thing you could ever do for him.

Xephon

Hi Op
Just reading into this and it sounds very much like myself, with the sexuality exception.
On that, i'm alittle curious as to how is your relationship is with your OH? and how you feel in yourself, how your son's mother feels and acts.
While i know and believe you care deeply about your son and would never ever hurt him and do everything in your power to make sure he is happy.

Inadvertly this could also be the result something still related to yourself or your sons mother.
What do you do as a job? are you an active person, as in Up for work on time every morning..etc, do you sometimes fight with the OH? especially around your son..etc
What does his mother do? worker? house wife?

The reasons i ask as these are the small things that caused myself to fall into that "i'm perfectly happy on the computer" for well over 10 years as i never knew how to deal with my own emotions up until about 6 months ago.. and i'm 26 ;P

I've never had a strong structure in my life as i would never communicate to my parents on any serious issues i had because i was always afraid of letting them down, as i've always been the good "perfect" boy in there eye's regardless of what i did, always helped with what ever they asked and never ever gave out to my parents for something they did i wasn't happy about.

So another question in relation is has your son ever gotten angry towards you 2?

muboop1

Hmm i don't know what i can add to what has already been said.

He is coddled,
Now i have to admit, I have pretty much all the advantages going for me due to parents working hard etc... parents didn't have it, they worked hard so kids could.

In my family do, we were given enough food an heating etc to get by. But if i wanted a new game or to go on tear with the lads, I damn well worked to get money!

You say your son spends all his time in his room?
What is he doing?

Is it something like World Of Warcraft or similar?
Might be an idea to take another approach,
He wants a new laptop, offer to pay half if he works and earns the other half?
Refuse to pay subscriptions to Games or whatever?

He will kick and moan and cry and try to manipulate you into getting him them. But just refuse!

Won't be easy...

But will do him some world of good!

Now can i just say,
I've seen this from another side...

Your worried about his happiness now?
I'm more worried about his future happiness...

I have a cousin who financially has never had to work a day in his life.
And doesn't.
Cant hold down a job longer then a week.
He's honestly a great guy, everyone loves him. Life of party type guy!

But... due to the lack of needing to work...
He's now a college drop out with no career prospects.
He's no job, no reference anything..

Recently he decided to do something with his life and try get a job...
He can't even get one in the local chipper!
Hes worse then a 16 year old kid with no experience.

The kid might be a hard worker just untried, but still will prob do a job.
Cousin has basically proven he isn't willing to.

For this his future career's could be impacted etc...
I'm convinced if he had to work hard at something ever and not breeze through life he would of passed college or at least got a job.

His money will run out do. Parents made clear they won't be supporting him much longer...

He's been happy for years, and life of party..
How long before his successful mates will just be pitying what a waste hes become.

He's already started "borrowing" off them etc... They aren't impressed...

It's actually sad!

So honestly if i were you i'd push him into financial independance.

It will bring challenges, force him to interact with people.. might make great mates and the process will make him stronger of character etc...

He will see that living in your room won't last forever...

And lets face it, you can't always be there to support him.
Better you teach him to support himself.

Give a man a fish...

LegacyUser

Cut off your internet. That way, if he wants to surf, he will at least have to leave the house.

Make him pay rent

Give him a deadline for moving out.

black & white

I had a son that spent a lot of time in his room watching dvds and studying, who only left to play sports and go to school. Shortly before he turned 18 he met a girl and came out of himself, started dressing nicely and going out. However he stopped studying and scraped through his Leaving.

Fast forward 2 years and he no longer lives at home and barely speaks to either his parents or siblings. The main reason is the girlfriend. She started by convincing him to stop seeing the few friends that he had, then he stopped speaking to us and then stopped talking to his brothers.

Be careful what you wish for.