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Lockerbie bomber released!...Dead 3 years later.

  • 20-08-2009 12:45pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭


    Just seen it on SkyNews now..

    Now let me get this straight, someone murders over 250 men, women and children.

    Then because the murderer is dying of cancer (and fvck 'em tbh), a government feels it must take pity on him and send him home to die in comfort, and probably to a hero's welcome too!.

    Fvck that sh*t.

    .


«13

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Just seen it on SkyNews now..

    Now let me get this straight, someone murders over 250 men, women and children.

    Then because the murderer is dying of cancer (and fvck 'em tbh), a government feels it must take pity on him and send him home to die in comfort, and probably to a hero's welcome too!.

    Fvck that sh*t.

    .

    BP have a 1.1 Billion (Sterling ?) contract with Lybia, which may have been put at risk. Make no mistake, he was realised for political and financial reasons.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Just seen it on SkyNews now..

    Now let me get this straight, someone murders over 250 men, women and children.

    Then because the murderer is dying of cancer (and fvck 'em tbh), a government feels it must take pity on him and send him home to die in comfort, and probably to a hero's welcome too!.

    Fvck that sh*t.

    .

    Buy a gun OP, take the law into your own hands.
    Be sure to kill yourself after you do the deed.
    And... good luck.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,945 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    I wonder how quickly Gaddafi's jet will be landing to pick him up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    He's widely regarded as innocent, even by the families people who were killed

    bit of a scape goat


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Just seen it on SkyNews now..

    Now let me get this straight, someone murders over 250 men, women and children.

    Then because the murderer is dying of cancer (and fvck 'em tbh), a government feels it must take pity on him and send him home to die in comfort, and probably to a hero's welcome too!.

    Fvck that sh*t.

    .

    He may not have been guilty at all. However, hes done more time than anyone involved in the shooting down of Iran Air 655 and the 290 deaths therein.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    He's widely regarded as innocent
    bit of a scape goat

    Not sure about innocence but he for sure is being used for political gain - possibly monetary gain too.

    One thing is for sure - he didn't do the whole thing on his own!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    He's widely regarded as innocent, even by the families people who were killed

    bit of a scape goat

    He isn't widely regarded as innocent. A group of British families don't believe he had the level of involvement that was put forward, nor that it was just him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Buy a gun OP, take the law into your own hands.
    Be sure to kill yourself after you do the deed.
    And... good luck.

    He doesn't need to buy one! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Nodin wrote: »
    He may not have been guilty at all. However, hes done more time than anyone involved in the shooting down of Iran Air 655 and the 290 deaths therein.

    It may well be true that he's entirely innocent, as lay people we can only hazard a guess at this.

    However he's been convicted so the Scotish justice department must have satisfied themselves that he was guilty, it just beats me that a murderer is afforded this kind of compassion.

    The shooting down of Iran Air 655 is an entirely different matter, either way I don't believe that the captain & crew of the USS Vincennes knew they were deliberately shooting down an innocent civilian A/C, although it may have led directly to the Lockerbie A/C/ bombing.

    .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭An Fear Aniar


    It's a pity that those on the jet never made it home to their families.

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Long Onion


    Was it true that Gadaffi Duck planted a bomb in Disneyland?

    *gets coat*

    I vaguely remember hearing about the disaster - was a kid living in London at the time, the thing that stands out most in my mind is hearing that the Beeb were cancelling an episode of Boon because there was a song on it called "Going to Heaven on a 747"

    Michael Elsphick - a man amongst men


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    It may well be true that he's entirely innocent, as lay people we can only hazard a guess at this.

    However he's been convicted so the Scotish justice department must have satisfied themselves that he was guilty, it just beats me that a murderer is afforded this kind of compassion.
    .


    In Europe, it would not be unheard of.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    "Mr al-Megrahi did not show his victims any comfort or compassion. They were not allowed to return to the bosom of their families to see out their lives, let alone their dying days. No compassion was shown by him to them.

    "But that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him

    Cobblers! Pure bullschite!

    Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/south_of_scotland/8197370.stm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    It may well be true that he's entirely innocent, as lay people we can only hazard a guess at this.

    However he's been convicted so the Scotish justice department must have satisfied themselves that he was guilty, it just beats me that a murderer is afforded this kind of compassion.

    The shooting down of Iran Air 655 is an entirely different matter, either way I don't believe that the captain & crew of the USS Vincennes knew they were deliberately shooting down an innocent civilian A/C, although it may have led directly to the Lockerbie A/C/ bombing.

    .

    Still raises the question if the crew members responsible for the missile launch and target identification shouldn't have answered a manslaughter charge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Biggins wrote: »
    Cobblers!

    So the world has to hold itself to the same standard as those it imprisons? Hmmmm. I can see that leading to problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Just seen it on SkyNews now..

    Now let me get this straight, someone murders over 250 men, women and children.

    Then because the murderer is dying of cancer (and fvck 'em tbh), a government feels it must take pity on him and send him home to die in comfort, and probably to a hero's welcome too!.

    Fvck that sh*t.

    .

    what are you like?

    he was defo ordered to do this - imagine the consequences if he said "eh no..." Libya was at war with the UK and Britian at the time.
    He should have been freed years ago as a POW.

    Also is It ok for Uk and Britian to slaughter arab/muslim civilans but it's not ok when an arab does it in reverse. We don't see many (the odd token jesture when a story gets out) US soliders in jail for crimes against civilians.
    What about those airmen in Afghanistan who bombed the wedding and killed many civilans last year?

    Surely you are old enough to remember Regan and Thacher bombing Tripoli and killing many innocents. He struck back from his nation and if they treat him as a hero - that's fine with me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭geuro


    I normally feel that the west needs to show more understanding and compromise when dealing with countries like Libya where there are significant terrorist threats. But really, I can't believe this. To those who say he is not guilty, let there be another appeal. But the man is convicted of 270 murders, and is being let off the hook after only 8 because he has cancer! It's ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Sonic_exyouth


    If any of you know anyone who was in the same stages of Cancer knows the idea of "Comform" is a nonsense.

    The man is in constant pain.

    He'll now be in a Libyan hospital rather than a Scottish one - So what?
    He's dying, hes a shell. He paid the price so that Gaddaffi could trade with the west. Now he's dying.

    blair&gaddafi.jpg
    gaddafi_02_571469a.jpg
    Brown-gaddafi-415x334.jpg
    gaddafi_500.jpg
    muammar-gaddafi-barack-obama-2009-7-9-16-10-51.jpg

    None of the above would have been thinkable had Gaddaffi not sent his sacrificial lambs to that Scottish trial.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    geuro wrote: »
    I normally feel that the west needs to show more understanding and compromise when dealing with countries like Libya where there are significant terrorist threats. But really, I can't believe this. To those who say he is not guilty, let there be another appeal. But the man is convicted of 270 murders, and is being let off the hook after only 8 because he has cancer! It's ridiculous.

    As its terminal cancer, its not like hes going to be bouncing round some Libyan beach.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭geuro



    Also is It ok for Uk and Britian to slaughter arab/muslim civilans but it's not ok when an arab does it in reverse. We don't see many (the odd token jesture when a story gets out) US soliders in jail for crimes against civilians.
    What about those airmen in Afghanistan who bombed the wedding and killed many civilans last year?

    Surely you are old enough to remember Regan and Thacher bombing Tripoli and killing many innocents. He struck back from his nation and if they treat him as a hero - that's fine with me.

    I can't believe you are serious. It sounds like you are suggesting that because it's ok for the west to slaughter arab or muslim civilians, it is ok for an arab or muslim terrorist to slaughter western civilians. Bit of a weird view buddy. It's never ok to slaughter civilians.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ...Surely you are old enough to remember Regan and Thacher bombing Tripoli and killing many innocents. He struck back from his nation and if they treat him as a hero - that's fine with me.

    Surely two wrong don't make a right?

    Justice can only be done one case at a time. He killed over 200 people and he gets to go home!
    I wouldn't call that justice - others might - apparently a lot don't and I can completely understand why.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Rhyme


    That's not cancer! It's a BOMB!

    Everybody get down...



    /me retrieves coat, slinks from forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Still raises the question if the crew members responsible for the missile launch and target identification shouldn't have answered a manslaughter charge.

    The crew followed procedures by the book. The airbus was not in a commercial airlane, was not following its scheduled route and did not respond to any attempts to contact it.

    I know a coupe of guys that were on a RN type 42 destroyer in the gulf at the time and they heard the whole thing. They could hear every attempt to identify the aircraft and tried to work out what it was themselves.

    that said, they could not believe the Americans open fire.
    what are you like?

    he was defo ordered to do this - imagine the consequences if he said "eh no..." Libya was at war with the UK and Britian at the time.
    He should have been freed years ago as a POW.

    Also is It ok for Uk and Britian to slaughter arab/muslim civilans but it's not ok when an arab does it in reverse. We don't see many (the odd token jesture when a story gets out) US soliders in jail for crimes against civilians.
    What about those airmen in Afghanistan who bombed the wedding and killed many civilans last year?

    Surely you are old enough to remember Regan and Thacher bombing Tripoli and killing many innocents. He struck back from his nation and if they treat him as a hero - that's fine with me.

    err, its not OK for anyone to slaughter anyone as far as I am aware.

    the guy planted a bomb on a ****ing jumbo, are you implying that is ok?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    Fvck that sh*t.

    Totally agree there fella. Should've died in prison where he belonged.

    (Same goes for Ronnie Biggs)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    wrote:
    Not originally posted by guero
    I can't believe you are serious. It sounds like you are suggesting that because it's ok for the west to slaughter arab or muslim civilians, it is ok for an arab or muslim terrorist to slaughter western civilians. Bit of a weird view buddy. It's never ok to slaughter Western civilians.
    I agree


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The crew followed procedures by the book. The airbus was not in a commercial airlane, was not following its scheduled route and did not respond to any attempts to contact it.
    "The data from USS Vincennes tapes, information from USS Sides and reliable intelligence information, corroborate the fact that [Iran Air Flight 655] was on a normal commercial air flight plan profile, in the assigned airway, squawking Mode III 6760, on a continuous ascent in altitude from take-off at Bandar Abbas to shoot-down



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »

    fair enough, I'll concede to wikipedia's superior knowledge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,469 ✭✭✭✭Ghost Train


    the BP deal was back in 2007 though right? If he's going to die then send him home, not like he has much to look forward to


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fair enough, I'll concede to wikipedia's superior knowledge.

    No, you'll concede to the Fogarty review it references, and easily accessible reportage on same incident which references that review, and various other items that say much the same thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, you'll concede to the Fogarty review it references, and easily accessible reportage on same incident which references that review, and various other items that say much the same thing.

    OK, calm down.

    the RN Ship nearby had trouble identifying the plane and for some reason it chose to ignore continuous attempts to contact it. Like I said, though, the RN were surprised the US Navy opened fire.

    still doesn't detract from the fact that some bloke is getting out of jail after serving 8 years for murdering 270 people. Sounds to me as though the Scottish Parliament are just trying to make a name for themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Didn't the US, France and the UK want to let our Nazi Rudolf Hess on compassionate grounds, but couldn't as the Soviet Union disagreed. Sure, if the former allies were willing to let out a Nazi, then we should hardly be surprised by this guys release.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    and for some reason it chose to ignore continuous attempts to contact it. .

    ...because only three were on a civillian frequency, and as they were where they should be, they presumed they were addressed to a different aircraft.
    still doesn't detract from the fact that some bloke is getting out of jail after serving 8 years for murdering 270 people. Sounds to me as though the Scottish Parliament are just trying to make a name for themselves.

    ...more likely just applying the same standard as would be applied to anyone else...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Rev. BlueJeans


    I wonder how quickly Gaddafi's jet will be landing to pick him up.

    Even al-Gaddafi wouldn't stoop as low as Martin Ferris.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    I'm sure the 250 or so people he had a role in killing didn't get a chance.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    he should be treated exactly as those evil dublin monaghan bombers were treated...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Nodin wrote: »
    As its terminal cancer, its not like hes going to be bouncing round some Libyan beach.

    werd, at this stage letting him out is just saving a bit of taxpayer money


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    geuro wrote: »
    I can't believe you are serious. It sounds like you are suggesting that because it's ok for the west to slaughter arab or muslim civilians, it is ok for an arab or muslim terrorist to slaughter western civilians. Bit of a weird view buddy. It's never ok to slaughter civilians.

    :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Disgusting behaviour by the Scottish Justice Secretary.

    Feel really sorry for the innocent families. At least now they know who their government supports, not them but the people who have been convicted of killing them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭ben bedlam


    A disgusting move to let that piece of sh.ite out on "compassionate grounds". That scum showed little compassion for the hundreds he brutally murdered that day.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,230 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    wes wrote: »
    Didn't the US, France and the UK want to let our Nazi Rudolf Hess on compassionate grounds, but couldn't as the Soviet Union disagreed. Sure, if the former allies were willing to let out a Nazi, then we should hardly be surprised by this guys release.

    But the western allies preferred working with the Nazis after WW2, because the Soviets became Public Enemy No1. They should have released Hess, given that worse Nazis than he were in cahoots with the West, and free.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    He should have been left to rot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,230 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Exports of Scotch Whisky to the US are going to be screwed. They'll be looking to BP for compensation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    here is a link to what actual pilots think a lot reckon he was framed
    http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/384967-lockerbie-bomber-free-7.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Disgusting behaviour by the Scottish Justice Secretary.

    Feel really sorry for the innocent families. At least now they know who their government supports, not them but the people who have been convicted of killing them.

    Hope they remember it too at the next voting time!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    what are you like?

    he was defo ordered to do this - imagine the consequences if he said "eh no..." Libya was at war with the UK and Britian at the time.
    He should have been freed years ago as a POW.


    I know they were, they (the Libyians) were supplying the I.R.A. with arm's shipments - prolonging the misery for the people of Northern Ireland.

    To believe what you just said, then you must also believe that the I.R.A. should also have been treated as POW's and not the terrorists they were?.

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,575 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I'm glad he has been released on compssionate grounds although I am not happy he has been forced to give up his appeal. There needs to be a public inquiry into the trial.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭omega42


    I think everybody here would say that what he was involved in was atrocious and he deserved to pay for it. but shurly the measure of a society is thet compassion they can show to those that least deserve it.

    How is depriving any human access to loved ones at the last moment of their lives a help to anybody

    Just my 2 cents please dont flame me for my opinion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Adamisconfused


    I know they were, they (the Libyians) were supplying the I.R.A. with arm's shipments - prolonging the misery for the people of Northern Ireland.

    To believe what you just said, then you must also believe that the I.R.A. should also have been treated as POW's and not the terrorists they were?.

    .

    Since you mention the IRA, it's great that they didn't release that evil Giuseppe Conlon on compassionate grounds. He was convicted in a British court as well.
    I suppose if they had released him, you would have been complaining about that.

    Terminally ill people deserve compassion. That’s how I feel about it. Justice doesn’t mean revenge for the family of those who die. We’re meant to better than the people who perpetrate evil crimes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    post taken from a retired BA747 pilot the american familys are baying for blood compared to there uk counterparts who want another trial as think the conviction is unsafe.(like birmingham 6&guildford 4)



    It is entirely possible that he is innocent or perhaps was only a very lowly operative in the whole affair. There are some very plausible accounts from a retired CIA agent, Robert Baer, (see Bruce Wayne above), that show there is reasonable doubt over his conviction.

    From my own experience (I was in British Airways flying B747s at the time) I offer the following thoughts. The Iranian Airbus was shot down by the USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. Only a few weeks before that date it had nearly shot down a BA B747 while it was descending into Dubai. The subsequent internal BA investigation showed that the US Navy’s knowledge of civil traffic over The Gulf was marginal to say the least. And accounts I have read at the time, and since, indicate that the commander of the USS Vincennes was rather trigger happy.

    Pan Am 103 was blown up not long after on 21 December 1988. When accident investigators from the UK AAIB in Farnborough started to piece together fragments of wreckage, they were able to trace exactly where the explosion occurred in the hold by plotting the paths of fragments of the bomb and suitcases through the luggage and aircraft structure. And they were able to prove which suitcase the bomb was in. They were also able to show that the explosive had been in a Toshiba radio similar to one that had been seized in a German police raid on the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC). I had the opportunity to go to Farnborough and discuss some of this at the time. Thus, all the indications were that it had probably been a revenge attack either by the Iranians or by thePFLP-GC on their behalf.

    Two years later, when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait on 2 August 1990, the problem that faced the USA was that, even though they had a UN mandate to drive Iraqi forces out of Kuwait, they needed to build support in the Arab world (something George W Bush singularly failed even to try to do in 2003). However, his father was a much better diplomat and succeeded in putting together a wide coalition of forces. However, the PFLP-GC was backed by Syria, and Bush senior needed as many Arab states on side as possible in his developing coalition. He also needed to keep Iran out of the conflict if possible. If you remember, Iraq had invaded Iran in 1980 and the ensuing war had continued until September 1988. So there was good reason to believe that Iran might have seen this as another opportunity to gain revenge during a time when US/Iran relations were still poisonous in the extreme.

    Suddenly, somewhere around the autumn of 1990, the focus of attention in the Pan Am 103 investigation shifted fairly publically from Iran, the PFLP-GC and Syria…..to Libya. I was suspicious at the time about this decision and still am. I am sure the change was made in order to get Syria on side (they became part of the coalition against Saddam) and it may also have helped to keep Iran from meddling. In retrospect, in the overall scheme of things, it may even have been a price worth paying to get Iraq out of Kuwait. At that time, Libya had supported, and was still supporting, Middle East terrorism and had been responsible for a number of attacks on western interests, so it was an easy scapegoat. And everyone was worried because no-one knew how far Saddam would go, possibly even continuing with an attack on Saudi Arabia.

    I am an old cynic and normally believe in ‘cock-up’ rather than conspiracy, but in this case I have to say that I reluctantly suspect a conspiracy. While the facts concerning the explosion and the forensic evidence from the remains of the B747 are sound, the evidence that convicted al-Megrahi was circumstantial and tenuous in the extreme. It would not have been difficult somewhere along the line for government agents to ‘manipulate’ some of the evidence that linked Malta and al-Megrahi to this terrorist act. Perhaps that is why it is more convenient to release al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds rather than to hear an appeal against his conviction. I have no difficulty with letting him go but I would dearly like to see another investigation into the whole affair
    user_offline.gifIt is entirely possible that he is innocent or perhaps was only a very lowly operative in the whole affair. There are some very plausible accounts from a retired CIA agent, Robert Baer, (see Bruce Wayne above), that show there is reasonable doubt over his conviction.


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