USI Levy - Compulsory?

Cantab.

The USI is not compulsory AFAIC. I'll therefore be sending in a cheque less the €8 and enjoy my two pints of Miller in the upstairs bar of Doyle's all the better.

Jonathan

Doesn't seem to be according to the treasurers office anyway.

I have paid €1577 via epay.


An awful waste of €8.

mathew

i think you still end up a member tho.. Not that membership does anything for you really.. But as far as i know the SU pay the subscription for all students and get it back in the fees..
Doesnt really make a difference to you tho! You still get to enjoy your pints!!

Jonathan

mathew wrote: »

i think you still end up a member tho.. Not that membership does anything for you really.. But as far as i know the SU pay the subscription for all students and get it back in the fees..
Doesnt really make a difference to you tho! You still get to enjoy your pints!!

Means €8 less goes to the SU piss up weekend tho. :pac:

Unregistered.

Jonathan wrote: »

Means €8 less goes to the SU piss up weekend tho. :pac:

You monster!

Bartron Prime

Just to clarify a couple of quick things:

1) The USI Affiliation Fee is €5 NOT €8, there is a €3 contribution to TCDSU included.

2) The USI Affiliation Fee should have the same status as the Sports Centre Levy as they were ratified in the same manner - through student referendum.

3) I assume the 'piss up' you are referring to is the TCDSU Class Rep Training Event. Last year it was two days of approximately 10 hrs each day of training and was almost entirely sponsored by outside organisations in Higher Education. They were present at the event and thought it was highly professional.

4) The total due from the USI Affiliation Fee is due to USI and the most transparent and equal way to collect it is from each student. That way TCDSU can spend its tight budget on the other important issues that affect students.

5) The €5 is pooled together and then spent on areas that benefit students (in line with USI Policy as decided by Annual Congress - USI can't breathe without the approval of Congress and its member SUs) - USI supplies the local SUs with free condoms and cheap condoms. It goes to informing students about financial support, the Grant Information Evenings happening all over the country right now, Mental Health Campaigns (who provides the 'free' pack for TCDSU?) etc. I am not starting an argument over the virtues of USI, just pointing out where your money is directed to. The USI Budget is presented to National Council for ratification. If you really want to know, email TCDSU for a copy once it's ratified.

Disclosure time:
As most of you know, I am a former USI Officer (and I lasted whole year too! :P) so I am not unbiased on the subject of USI. So, I have tried to be as neutral as possible above but my sincerest apologies if any of the above comes across in a tool-ish tone.

If you want the affiliation argument and think USI membership isn't value for money, fine. It's a valid opinion, and I will disagree with those who wish to disaffiliate.

But please, do be cognisant of the facts, such as how much it actually costs in the first place.

Cantab.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

Just to clarify a couple of quick things:

1) The USI Affiliation Fee is €5 NOT €8, there is a €3 contribution to TCDSU included.

2) The USI Affiliation Fee should have the same status as the Sports Centre Levy as they were ratified in the same manner - through student referendum.

3) I assume the 'piss up' you are referring to is the TCDSU Class Rep Training Event. Last year it was two days of approximately 10 hrs each day of training and was almost entirely sponsored by outside organisations in Higher Education. They were present at the event and thought it was highly professional.

4) The total due from the USI Affiliation Fee is due to USI and the most transparent and equal way to collect it is from each student. That way TCDSU can spend its tight budget on the other important issues that affect students.

5) The €5 is pooled together and then spent on areas that benefit students (in line with USI Policy as decided by Annual Congress - USI can't breathe without the approval of Congress and its member SUs) - USI supplies the local SUs with free condoms and cheap condoms. It goes to informing students about financial support, the Grant Information Evenings happening all over the country right now, Mental Health Campaigns (who provides the 'free' pack for TCDSU?) etc. I am not starting an argument over the virtues of USI, just pointing out where your money is directed to. The USI Budget is presented to National Council for ratification. If you really want to know, email TCDSU for a copy once it's ratified.

Disclosure time:
As most of you know, I am a former USI Officer (and I lasted whole year too! :P) so I am not unbiased on the subject of USI. So, I have tried to be as neutral as possible above but my sincerest apologies if any of the above comes across in a tool-ish tone.

If you want the affiliation argument and think USI membership isn't value for money, fine. It's a valid opinion, and I will disagree with those who wish to disaffiliate.

But please, do be cognisant of the facts, such as how much it actually costs in the first place.

I'd reluctantly pay the €3 (in theory I support the idea of the students' union, in practice they're a bunch of left-wing gob****es), but no way in hell the USI are getting money out of me.

Incidentally, when are the students' union going to campaign to get a proper junior common room? Or is handing out promiscuity packs during freshers week their raison d'être?

goingnowhere

The College's legal advice is quite clear a student is well within their rights not to pay the USI levy.

If you want to pay through epay email the fees office and they will alter the amount to reflect your non payment of the USI levy.

Many are rightly concerned by the USI's lack of focus on the real core issues of education quality, teaching standards and so on. Instead we get the crap of wannabe politicians making to make a name for themselves.

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

Or is handing out promiscuity packs during freshers week their raison d'être?

If it means one less person doesnt get an STD or one less trip to the UK then why not?

If only they gave them out 2 decades ago

Cantab.

kearnsr wrote: »

one less trip to the UK then why not?

Yeah, and get the students' union to pay for it (using the money they got off Catholics, Muslims and conservative Christian students).

kearnsr wrote: »

If only they gave them out 2 decades ago

2 decades ago was 1989. I think condoms had wormed their way onto campus by then.

Cantab.

Whatever my reservations about the students' union, I think the GSU is great They did a great job at rejuvenating the common room there last Monday. Fair play to whoever threw out all those manky cups and useless clutter that was lying around.

EGaffney

Bartron Prime wrote: »

4) The total due from the USI Affiliation Fee is due to USI and the most transparent and equal way to collect it is from each student. That way TCDSU can spend its tight budget on the other important issues that affect students.

Shop subsidies?!?

Bartron Prime

goingnowhere wrote: »

Many are rightly concerned by the USI's lack of focus on the real core issues of education quality, teaching standards and so on. Instead we get the crap of wannabe politicians making to make a name for themselves.

If you want I can always post the 7 page Quality Assurance policy USI has adopted, the 5 page Bologna Process policy and various motions on teaching standards, assessment of same and training for academics

USI focuses an intense amount of its effort on education quality, teaching standards and so on. I should know, it was my job last year.

Few Highlights:
- Ireland's first ever guide to educational reform (the Bologna Process) was printed and will be distributed to TCDSU Class Reps this October.
- USI got HETAC to agree to make anonymous marking compulsory in all forms of assessment where practical in all institutions it accredits.
- There is a student representative chosen by USI on all external QA review panels for all seven universities and all IOTs, both groups of institutions are about to be reviewed.
- USI will be working with HETAC on workshops to inform students of HETAC's new Assessment & Standards policy for assessment.
Guidelines
- USI cooperated with the IUQB to create an online repository of all quality reviews of academic units and services in Irish universities
- USI will be hosting an Education Forum this year and a Postgraduate Forum
- We worked closely with the Department of Education & Science on grant reform and got them to push forward some of the administrative reforms.
- Negotiations with TUI to push for performance review of academics and for extra training and development.

This is just some of the stuff; I am trying to write a conference paper so I am rushing this down.

I'm not trying to be self-aggrandising but just wanted to show some of the work on education quality USI does. After all, if you're a member, you're entitled to know what was done with your money.

TCDSU is campaigning for a Student Centre Cantab., a Junior Common Room already exists in two places. As for 'promiscuity packs', an SU exists to look after its members. Surely doing everything it can to prevent them catching dangerous illnesses, educating them about risks and helping to protect their health falls under that?

As for student politicians; I am like the worst politician ever. I just happen to be passionate about education to the point I am considering a PhD in Quality Assurance and HE policy. I can't deny being left-wing though. Also, I can probably be a gob****e too :P

Also, I do not think it's fair to wildly cast aspersions on the motives and effort of people working for the organisation to call everyone a 'wannabe politician' or a 'left-wing gob****e'. Disagree with USI's direction and strategy; fine.

It is not appropriate to call into question the motives, work ethic and commitment of the other 8 full-time Officers I had the honour of working with last year. USI is a member-led organisation - direct them to go a certain way and they will. But please respect the people who choose to get involved full-time. As I said, disagree with strategy all you want, but accept the fact they give their all for that strategy.

Much more than shop subsidies Ed. Nuanced answers don't make great puns though (Also: hello and I hope you are doing well)

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

2 decades ago was 1989. I think condoms had wormed their way onto campus by then.

You dont get it so I wont explain it

gamma23

Cantab. wrote: »

in theory I support the idea of the students' union, in practice they're a bunch of left-wing gob****es

You may be intrested to know that the TCD delegates to USI this year were said to be a bunch of right-wing conservatives by some of these so called gob****es.
Obviously not true like, most would have been left of centre, but it raises the question in my mind what would happen if trinity wasn't involved in USI????????

Bartron Prime

Having been at the last three Annual Congresses, TCDSU's delegates come from all over the political spectrum (barring the extreme right and left I have found). However, remember they have to vote according to TCDSU policy, which means supporting issues they may personally disagree with and vice versa.

In truth, all delegations have a wide mix of political views, tempered by their institutional view point and experience.

Cantab.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

TCDSU is campaigning for a Student Centre Cantab.,

Who says a "student centre" is such a great idea? It's a figment of the students' union's imagination. Why compartmentalize all student activity into one building at the back of College? College would only be too pleased to take house 6 off the students and turn it into bedrooms so they can milk even more money.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

a Junior Common Room already exists in two places.

I'm only familiar with the common room over in Goldsmith Hall. It's a kip. Why can't there be a proper common room with high quality facilities; a place that people respect and are proud of? Of all the places in College, the JCR is in Goldsmith Hall... Just shows what College think of their undergrads and how the students' union have allowed this attitude to fester.

Bartron Prime

Well, in 2008 when we surveyed students and ran a 'Know Your Union' Week to find out what students (a) thought of the current direction of the SU and (b) what they wanted us to work towards, the Student Centre was either the first or second issue they wanted addressed (the other was the Library). So the idea that nobody wants it is a figment of your imagination. Oh, and the SU won't be leaving House 6, as far as I am aware College have agreed to that (that was the position in my year).

The other JCR is the one in Halls.

As I have said, the 'common room' will be the Student Centre. I agree with you that College needs to invest much more in undergraduate facilities but to say this is the cause of SU 'neglect' is incorrect. The chief cause is financial then other ones are administrative (oh God the red tape) and a horrific conservative attitude personified by some of the Fellows.

So yes, I agree College needs to invest more in the non-postgraduate side of things but your argument is ill-informed.

Cantab.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

Well, in 2008 when we surveyed students and ran a 'Know Your Union' Week to find out what students (a) thought of the current direction of the SU and (b) what they wanted us to work towards, the Student Centre was either the first or second issue they wanted addressed (the other was the Library). So the idea that nobody wants it is a figment of your imagination. Oh, and the SU won't be leaving House 6, as far as I am aware College have agreed to that (that was the position in my year).

I'd like to know your sample size, experiment conditions and how the experiment was designed. Let me guess: the usual SU hacks filling out a few forms in house 6.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

The other JCR is the one in Halls.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that place. Seems much more like a common room there (intimate, cosy and friendly) than what the SU are proposing on the arse end of campus (big, loud, rock-concerty, boozy, bad mannerly).

Bartron Prime wrote: »

As I have said, the 'common room' will be the Student Centre.

Says who? You? What power do you have exactly? The undergrads deserve much better common room facilities, but not the type of homogenised crap that you're harping on about.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

I agree with you that College needs to invest much more in undergraduate facilities but to say this is the cause of SU 'neglect' is incorrect. The chief cause is financial then other ones are administrative (oh God the red tape) and a horrific conservative attitude personified by some of the Fellows.

I hope the College tell you to go take a running jump when you try to get your hands on the Luce Hall. You can't even keep your room in house 6 in reasonable condition, let alone a building 100 times the size.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

So yes, I agree College needs to invest more in the non-postgraduate side of things but your argument is ill-informed.

Standard lamps, leather chairs, polished tables and thick rugs, books and magazines is what I want to see in a common room. Not the latest Kings of Leon tunes blaring out over a tinny sound system, dirty couches, dirty surfaces, trays, soggy tea bags, bad pool tables and posters sellotaped to the paintwork. Trinity students deserve better. Trinity students would be only too willing to pay an extra €20 or €30 a year on their invoices if the students' union didn't behave like a bunch of spoilt adolescents and students knew they were getting top quality facilities in return.

Fad

Cantab. wrote: »

Standard lamps, leather chairs, polished tables and thick rugs, books and magazines is what I want to see in a common room. Not the latest Kings of Leon tunes blaring out over a tinny sound system, dirty couches, dirty surfaces, trays, soggy tea bags, bad pool tables and posters sellotaped to the paintwork. Trinity students deserve better. Trinity students would be only too willing to pay an extra €20 or €30 a year on their invoices if the students' union didn't behave like a bunch of spoilt adolescents and students knew they were getting top quality facilities in return.

How many students actually want that?

How many students think of that when they think of a common room?

Bartron Prime

Cantab. wrote: »

I'd like to know your sample size, experiment conditions and how the experiment was designed. Let me guess: the usual SU hacks filling out a few forms in house 6.

Actually a survey was e-mailed to all undergraduates bringing at least a few thousand responses, a stand was set up in the Arts Building and the Hamilton Building every day from 10 am - 5pm, class addresses were done and 'feedback postcards' were posted to SU notice boards so people could simply collect them. The cards could be handed to the stands, the Hamilton SU shop or Front Office in House 6.

Cantab. wrote: »

Oh yeah. Forgot about that place. Seems much more like a common room there (intimate, cosy and friendly) than what the SU are proposing on the arse end of campus (big, loud, rock-concerty, boozy, bad mannerly).

Here again is a problem. When people were ased what the Student Centre should have, we were told they wanted Student Services located there and they would like a bar. We do as we are told.

Cantab. wrote: »

Says who? You? What power do you have exactly? The undergrads deserve much better common room facilities, but not the type of homogenised crap that you're harping on about.

None in TCD anymore but I am working off the common (forgive the pun) assumption of a 'common room' - a social facility for students. Oh, and by 'homogenised', you mean 'popular' and 'desired'. Remember, any SU is controlled by its membership so it campaigns for whatever they indicate (after a proper debate of course).

Cantab. wrote: »

I hope the College tell you to go take a running jump when you try to get your hands on the Luce Hall. You can't even keep your room in house 6 in reasonable condition, let alone a building 100 times the size.

If you're talking about my office the time I was Education Officer; no it wasn't the tidiest place on the planet. It had charm though College likes the idea of social facilities in any proposed Student Centre. it's only issue is who exactly should run the bar.

Cantab. wrote: »

Standard lamps, leather chairs, polished tables and thick rugs, books and magazines is what I want to see in a common room. Not the latest Kings of Leon tunes blaring out over a tinny sound system, dirty couches, dirty surfaces, trays, soggy tea bags, bad pool tables and posters sellotaped to the paintwork. Trinity students deserve better. Trinity students would be only too willing to pay an extra €20 or €30 a year on their invoices if the students' union didn't behave like a bunch of spoilt adolescents and students knew they were getting top quality facilities in return.

You are perfectly entitled to have your vision of what a Student Centre should encompass. When it is opened for consultation, I suggest you make your recommendations known to the SU, if you wish to see them implemented. Do remember though, it will be decided based on the wishes of the majority of students who may have slightly different tastes to you.

As for your adolescent remark, you seem to misunderstand the nature of representation and advocacy but that is understandable. Also, I would like the point out the irony of your remark and the entirety of the post preceding it.

Cantab.

Fad wrote: »

How many students actually want that?

How many students think of that when they think of a common room?

Hardly surprising given the way the student populace has been dumbed down over the years and happily accept sub-standard facilities.

Perhaps bringing back fees will be a good thing - will force students into demanding better.



The Phil Council room has aspirations towards the above, as does the graduate common room (unfortunately, someone decided to buy horrible cheap couches there about 2 years ago...).

Bartron Prime

The Phil Council Room is required to be closed and locked at all times there is not a Council member present.

Again, differing facility preferences do not serve as comparators of quality.

Anyway, shouldn't we go back to the topic?

Fad

Cantab. wrote: »

Hardly surprising given the way the student populace has been dumbed down over the years and happily accept sub-standard facilities.

Perhaps bringing back fees will be a good thing - will force students into demanding better.

The Phil Council room has aspirations towards the above, as does the graduate common room (unfortunately, someone decided to buy horrible cheap couches there about 2 years ago...).

Why would they demand that though?

They'd demand something they actually want, a comfortable common room that inst trying to be something it's clearly not and never will be*

*

Cambridge

Cantab.

Inspirational surroundings are conducive to inspirational work.

What's going on down the East end of campus where postgrads are packed in like sardines inside the poured concrete monstrosities like the Lloyd building is nothing short of a disgrace. What is the students' union opinion on this?

Cantab.

Cantab. wrote: »

What is the students' union opinion on this?

Uh, go and ask?

EGaffney

Cantab. wrote: »

Inspirational surroundings are conducive to inspirational work.

What's going on down the East end of campus where postgrads are packed in like sardines inside the poured concrete monstrosities like the Lloyd building is nothing short of a disgrace. What is the students' union opinion on this?

I for one welcome our new sardine overlords.

gamma23

Cantab. wrote: »

What is the students' union opinion on this?

Go ask one of the sabbats, but don't be suprised if they say their position is just to support the GSU opinion.

SU website schedule 8 wrote:

In order that the two students' unions might avoid discord, and work together to promote the interests of the students of the College, the unions formally agree to cooperate in the general area of student representation, and in particular agree to the following.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Cantab. wrote: »

Standard lamps, leather chairs, polished tables and thick rugs, books and magazines is what I want to see in a common room. Not the latest Kings of Leon tunes blaring out over a tinny sound system, dirty couches, dirty surfaces, trays, soggy tea bags, bad pool tables and posters sellotaped to the paintwork. Trinity students deserve better. Trinity students would be only too willing to pay an extra €20 or €30 a year on their invoices if the students' union didn't behave like a bunch of spoilt adolescents and students knew they were getting top quality facilities in return.

This, I absolutely agree with 100%.

JCR in Goldsmith Hall at the moment seems to be overrun with Engineering types in hoodies who don't care at all for the traditions of Trinity.

I'd love a pleasant JCR where you can pop in for your afternoon tea and discuss politics or history or the latest news, or just quietly read a newspaper and enjoy the surroundings. That seems to me the kind of JCR that Trinity ought to embody.

Jonathan

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

JCR in Goldsmith Hall at the moment seems to be overrun with Engineering types in hoodies who don't care at all for the traditions of Trinity.

Sorry about that.

godtabh

Cantab. wrote: »

I'd like to know your sample size, experiment conditions and how the experiment was designed. Let me guess: the usual SU hacks filling out a few forms in house 6.


Oh yeah. Forgot about that place. Seems much more like a common room there (intimate, cosy and friendly) than what the SU are proposing on the arse end of campus (big, loud, rock-concerty, boozy, bad mannerly).



Says who? You? What power do you have exactly? The undergrads deserve much better common room facilities, but not the type of homogenised crap that you're harping on about.


I hope the College tell you to go take a running jump when you try to get your hands on the Luce Hall. You can't even keep your room in house 6 in reasonable condition, let alone a building 100 times the size.


Standard lamps, leather chairs, polished tables and thick rugs, books and magazines is what I want to see in a common room. Not the latest Kings of Leon tunes blaring out over a tinny sound system, dirty couches, dirty surfaces, trays, soggy tea bags, bad pool tables and posters sellotaped to the paintwork. Trinity students deserve better. Trinity students would be only too willing to pay an extra €20 or €30 a year on their invoices if the students' union didn't behave like a bunch of spoilt adolescents and students knew they were getting top quality facilities in return.

I cant believe how out of touch you are with the average student. College or the SU shouldnt revlove around you.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

kearnsr wrote: »

I cant believe how out of touch you are with the average student. College or the SU shouldnt revlove around you.

How the hell is wanting a nice JCR being out of touch with the average student?

Presumably the 'average' student with absolutely no taste and no interest in the traditions and historical surroundings of Trinity will be no less happy in a nice, tasteful JCR as they would be in something that looks like a set from Byker Grove (i.e. what we have at the moment). While those of us more discerning will be infinitely happier.

Seriously, I don't understand how you people can argue with something so obvious. I know you guys don't particularly like Cantab., but really, do you actually believe what you're saying or are you just arguing with what is obvious for the sake of it?

Also, if you people all hate the idea of Trinity so much, why didn't you just go to DIT or something.

Bartron Prime

People continue to assert that there is only one specific 'tradition' in Trinity and that deviation from it naturally equals degradation, decline and inferiority. They maintain the belief that 'holding the line' against something they view as 'modern anathema' can only spell the 'fall' of the college. Their arguement is that there is a tradition, or culture if you will allow the extension, that is inherently 'Trinity' in its look or appearance and nothing else s permitted.

This vision of one 'definition' of Trinity couldn't be further from the truth.

The defining 'definition' of Trinity has been, is and shall hopefull remain, diversity. It was the first university in the British Empire to award degrees to Catholics and Jews after the repeal of the Penal Laws. It saw the first proper college society (The Hist) established. The system of education that people decry as some form of American-isation, where you attend the college and pick your subjects when you get there, was the system until the 1960s. It has gone far beyond it's original four pillars of Arts, Divinity, Medicine and Law. It's a university that saw ground-breaking work in SCiences and the first proper teaching of Modern Languages in Europe.

Trinity is a place where you have the ability to partake in any number of activities in any number of venues in any number of contexts. In my time I liked to read newspapers and discuss news in comfortabke surroundings too. I went to the GMB (because of my society involvement) and other places. I also liked to grab a roll from Donovans, sit in the JCR and just simply relax with friends, have a laugh and listen to some music.

The 'tradition' that people try to make exclusive permits and encourages that. Cantab's version of Trinity is there too and has laudable points. The central weakness in it and his err in interpreting that vision, is that is all there is to the college.

Trinity's strength has come from its ability to respond to change. From no female students just over a century ago to a student body that is at least 61% female. Two Roman Catholic Provosts in a row - both profound changes.

So yes Cantab, you can have your Common Room with the fine chairs, lamps and shelves creaking with books. Were I still a student, I would probably go there often.

But, students who want a place to relax away fro their course can have that too. The mistake you have made is to conflate social choices with intellectual ability and/or personal value.

Trinity is a university whose defining value has been diversity and a willingness to question standard assumptions. That's the 'tradition' I remember and that's the one that should be upheld at all costs.

Cantab.

Bartron Prime wrote: »

People continue to assert that there is only one specific 'tradition' in Trinity and that deviation from it naturally equals degradation, decline and inferiority. They maintain the belief that 'holding the line' against something they view as 'modern anathema' can only spell the 'fall' of the college. Their arguement is that there is a tradition, or culture if you will allow the extension, that is inherently 'Trinity' in its look or appearance and nothing else s permitted.

This vision of one 'definition' of Trinity couldn't be further from the truth.

The defining 'definition' of Trinity has been, is and shall hopefull remain, diversity. It was the first university in the British Empire to award degrees to Catholics and Jews after the repeal of the Penal Laws. It saw the first proper college society (The Hist) established. The system of education that people decry as some form of American-isation, where you attend the college and pick your subjects when you get there, was the system until the 1960s. It has gone far beyond it's original four pillars of Arts, Divinity, Medicine and Law. It's a university that saw ground-breaking work in SCiences and the first proper teaching of Modern Languages in Europe.

Trinity is a place where you have the ability to partake in any number of activities in any number of venues in any number of contexts. In my time I liked to read newspapers and discuss news in comfortabke surroundings too. I went to the GMB (because of my society involvement) and other places. I also liked to grab a roll from Donovans, sit in the JCR and just simply relax with friends, have a laugh and listen to some music.

The 'tradition' that people try to make exclusive permits and encourages that. Cantab's version of Trinity is there too and has laudable points. The central weakness in it and his err in interpreting that vision, is that is all there is to the college.

Trinity's strength has come from its ability to respond to change. From no female students just over a century ago to a student body that is at least 61% female. Two Roman Catholic Provosts in a row - both profound changes.

So yes Cantab, you can have your Common Room with the fine chairs, lamps and shelves creaking with books. Were I still a student, I would probably go there often.

But, students who want a place to relax away fro their course can have that too. The mistake you have made is to conflate social choices with intellectual ability and/or personal value.

Trinity is a university whose defining value has been diversity and a willingness to question standard assumptions. That's the 'tradition' I remember and that's the one that should be upheld at all costs.

Seriously mate, you should have just applied to DCU and made all of our lives much easier.

Brian

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

This, I absolutely agree with 100%.

JCR in Goldsmith Hall at the moment seems to be overrun with Engineering types in hoodies who don't care at all for the traditions of Trinity.

I'd love a pleasant JCR where you can pop in for your afternoon tea and discuss politics or history or the latest news, or just quietly read a newspaper and enjoy the surroundings. That seems to me the kind of JCR that Trinity ought to embody.

Best place I've found for a quiet read is the sofas in the basement of the Ussher.

Unregistered.

Jonathan wrote: »

Sorry about that.

And the shorts! Attire should be restricted to pressed slacks and crisp shirts I say.

M450

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

JCR in Goldsmith Hall at the moment seems to be overrun with Engineering types in hoodies who don't care at all for the traditions of Trinity.

I'd love a pleasant JCR where you can pop in for your afternoon tea and discuss politics or history or the latest news, or just quietly read a newspaper and enjoy the surroundings. That seems to me the kind of JCR that Trinity ought to embody.

I can't believe I just read that!

EGaffney

The sad truth is that many students could not care less about Trinity - they are getting their degrees and enjoying their extended childhoods, which explains hoodies (for clique identification of course) etc. There is nothing you can do about these hedonistic people, they exist in every university in the country and reflect the apathetic quality of Irish people towards community in general.

Jonathan

EGaffney wrote: »

The sad truth is that many students could not care less about Trinity - they are getting their degrees and enjoying their extended childhoods, which explains hoodies (for clique identification of course) etc. There is nothing you can do about these hedonistic people, they exist in every university in the country and reflect the apathetic quality of Irish people towards community in general.

Meh.. Hoodies are comfortable and warm.

Should we all run around in gowns to keep up the traditions of Trinity? :rolleyes:

Brian

I'd look pretty natty in slacks and a shirt.

Cantab.

Jonathan wrote: »

Should we all run around in gowns

I think gowns should be much more prevalent. Saw Joe O'Gorman sporting his the other day.

Napoli

EGaffney wrote: »

The sad truth is that many students could not care less about Trinity - they are getting their degrees and enjoying their extended childhoods, which explains hoodies (for clique identification of course) etc. There is nothing you can do about these hedonistic people, they exist in every university in the country and reflect the apathetic quality of Irish people towards community in general.

I'm going to have to +1 this.

The majority of incoming, and even current students, are unaware of Trinity's history and traditions. Some even feel belligerent towards tradition and would rather be in an "American Pie" style party college. Hence the monstrosity that is the JCR. I sometimes think it's just there for show. The games consoles and pinball machines are never turned on and you'll be run out of the place if you're caught eating lunch.

These people will be here for a few years and then leave with no sense of connection to the alma mater. They may as well have gone to DCU or any of the other countless generic colleges in the country.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Napoli wrote: »

I'm going to have to +1 this.

The majority of incoming, and even current students, are unaware of Trinity's history and traditions. Some even feel belligerent towards tradition and would rather be in an "American Pie" style party college. Hence the monstrosity that is the JCR. I sometimes think it's just there for show. The games consoles and pinball machines are never turned on and you'll be run out of the place if you're caught eating lunch.

These people will be here for a few years and then leave with no sense of connection to the alma mater. They may as well have gone to DCU or any of the other countless generic colleges in the country.

Definitely...

As a similar point, while I'm not surprised that the majority of people aren't interested in engaging with Trinity and leaving with a sense of connection, I am surprised at how openly hostile people are in this thread to the idea, sneering and ridiculing any point of view that feels the 'Trinity experience' is an important aspect of the college, and that the face of Trinity as a historical college with great depth of character and tradition should be promoted.

Señor Juárez

I must say that while I don't think the Cantab and ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI version of a student centre should be top of the list, I do think that if a sizable amount of space is available, there is no reason why there could not be a small to medium sized reading room (preferably with no food or drink allowed inside) along these lines.

I would certainly use it, and I would certainly not have any use for a cliquey hackish hoodie-fest full of pseudo Marxists guffawing and congratulating each other on their slices of 10c subsidised dry toast.

As regards getting back on topic, I don't think the way which the €8 levy is charged is very acceptable - there should be a documented method of exclusion, perhaps with some facilitation agreed between the SU and the fees office to allow students to opt out.

M450

There is a serious sense of superiority in this thread... we didn't all go to King's Hospital you know. You'd probably prefer if it was a requirement on the bloody CAO! Sure why not stick with your precious traditions and ban all Catholics while you're at it...

I may not walk around sipping tea and discussing history and politics in my spare time but I am very proud of my Trinity degree and, believe it or not, I do feel that I have made a connection with the place. So much so that I'm continuing on here as a post graduate...

So why dont you keep your comments to yourself or start a new thread on how the hoodie wearing peasants of Ireland are allowed to attend Trinity College :eek:

And no the SUI Levy is not compulsory but it's only €8, 5 of which goes to the USI and 3 goes to TCD.

shay_562

ZWIE VIER ZWIE wrote:

I am surprised at how openly hostile people are in this thread to the idea, sneering and ridiculing any point of view that feels the 'Trinity experience' is an important aspect of the college, and that the face of Trinity as a historical college with great depth of character and tradition should be promoted.

Actually, I think the sneering and hostility comes about as a result of some people on this thread having the breath-taking arrogance to assume that they (and they alone) can define what "the Trinity experience" ought to be, what people ought to be focusing on in their college years and suggesting that, if someone doesn't believe that there's any point in fulfilling Cantab's dream of "Standard lamps, leather chairs, polished tables and thick rugs" they might as well have gone to any random college anywhere in the country. People can establish links and emotional connections to Trinity in a number of different ways. Not everyone wants to memorise the college statutes over breakfast, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the place. Sometimes people wander around wearing their clique-y hoodies because the emotional connection they've made to Trinity is highly linked to some society or club or class that they're a part of. You can have respect for the traditions and the institution that is Trinity College without wanting to follow every single one of them, or without wanting to sacrifice the other parts of college life that are also quite enjoyable (like drinking and partying Animal House-style).

EGaffney

M450 wrote: »

There is a serious sense of superiority in this thread... we didn't all go to King's Hospital you know. You'd probably prefer if it was a requirement on the bloody CAO! Sure why not stick with your precious traditions and ban all Catholics while you're at it...

I may not walk around sipping tea and discussing history and politics in my spare time but I am very proud of my Trinity degree and, believe it or not, I do feel that I have made a connection with the place. So much so that I'm continuing on here as a post graduate...

So why dont you keep your comments to yourself or start a new thread on how the hoodie wearing peasants of Ireland are allowed to attend Trinity College :eek:

And no the SUI Levy is not compulsory but it's only €8, 5 of which goes to the USI and 3 goes to TCD.

Can you make a critique without anti-Protestant invective? I doubt most of the people you're disagreeing with are Protestants.

Señor Juárez

All of that particular post is worthless and should be ignored. Nobody was arguing that Cantab's vision was for everyone, or should be forced upon everyone, or even that it should be the primary focus of college life. It was simply that it might be a nice thing to have for those interested, I think.

Señor Juárez

I just received the following rather unsurprising email.

Dear Señor Juárez,

Unregistered. has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - USI Levy - Compulsory? - in the TCD forum of boards.ie.

This thread is located at:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055656554&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by Señor Juárez)--- It was simply that it might be a nice thing to have for those interested, I think.
---End Quote---
I'm interested in your ma, can I have her!
***************


For once he decided that it was too retarded, and deleted the post, thought I'd just disclose it here anyway. Once again pointing out that "Unregistered." is a rereg account for banned user "Peslo", and requesting that the mods ban him from our hallowed forum.

Unregistered.

Lies.

Jonathan

Unregistered. wrote: »

Lies.

Silly boy.