Rational humans

Plowman

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togster

Plowman wrote: »

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LOL

Treora

It was an interesting post until you brought some of your own irrationality into the situation

Plowman wrote: »

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let me fix that for you: rational people are trying to understanding everything scientifically.

Economics, a pseudo-science under which we all are enslaved, is based on the principle that all things being equal rational men will do such in such. However the 2002 Noble medal for economics was part awarded to a psychologist on the grounds that people are fundamentally irrational open to anchoring (once you have an opinion it tends to stick) and suggestibility (once enough people say something you will probably copy them). These are sound principles under evolutionary psychology. The one I like the best is why people are mostly afraid of the unknown. The theory is long ago those that when it search of the unknown noise in the night mostly didn't return (bear attack etc) and those that said by the fire with fire brands survived and bred.

See, even understanding irrationality can be utterly rational. :P


Don't worry there is nothing to be afraid of when discovering things, just how you react to the discovery

ChocolateSauce

Long story short, education does not = rational. Humans are both rational and irrational, and it is an uphill battle against the latter.

Finally, I don't know why you brought class into this, but it is a not applicable to a discussion on rationality.

Goduznt Xzst

rational, rational, rational, rational... the word has lost all meaning to me now.

But at least I've added another post with that word in it so that when someone else decides to illogically draw parallels between the use of a word in this forum and it's relation to the ideals of the individuals in that forum that they can now have some more data to spuriously create conclusions from.

Ickle Magoo

OP,

I'm not sure how you make the leap from finding the supernatural aspects of theism less rational than other possible explanations to a general assumption that people are/are not rational?

I think many human beings exhibit both rational & irrational behaviour & thoughts - that's what got me thinking in the first place! There is an important distinction between employing verifiable scientific rationale to explain particular events and rationality as a factor guiding a persons behaviour in the day to day.

plowman/ wrote:

It seems that being a rational atheist actually means being middle class and having a good education.

That just sounds like a cheap shot with a dash of chip on your shoulder - and is complete crap to boot.

Plowman

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Ickle Magoo

If you are talking about absolute personal rationality, then I don't think anyone can claim that either but again, that's a different kettle of fish from claiming you take the rational position in an unverifiable scenario ie you don't make up things in place of the unknown and you question the possibility and validity of everything.

fitz0

Plowman wrote: »

OK, it is probably meant in jest, but even something like "Godwin's Law" sounds scientific and rational. It is a "law."

Theres no probably about it, it is a joke. Its called "Godwin's Law" because... why am I even explaining it?

*sigh*

Zombrex

No, humans are not rational, humans are instinctive. We are hugely biased towards accepting ideas about reality that match our instincts, independently of whether they are true or not.

That is why we very quickly ended up producing things like religion and why we eventually developed things like science.

Goduznt Xzst

Plowman wrote: »

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So you are admitting you are in fact irrational. I frankly don't have the time to be listening to an irrational individual try to reason on rationality. Why, whatever conclusions you may reach about being rational will be irrational due to your own admission. But if you conclude your argument is irrational, being irrational yourself would that make the argument rational, or would it still be irrational. Is an irrational human calling themselves irrational being rational?

Zillah

I would describe myself as an entity with arbitrary emotions who uses rationality as a tool.

I can use rationality to deduce that jumping out of a plane is more dangerous than not jumping out of a plane, but I'm going to do it. This is not necessarily irrational. If my primary axiom is to enjoy life and indulge my emotions (rather than 'always do the safest thing') then following my emotions is entirely rational.

To put this in terms of religion, both myself and a theist will always claim to have the axiom "believe something because it is true". I follow this, they pretend to. This is their irrationality.

Bizarrely enough, if someone had the axiom "Believe whatever the hell makes me happy" and were religious, that would make them more rational than the former religious group. Granted they'd probably have some issues with double-think though...

condra

I think when people categorise themselves as "rational", they mean, comparitively rational, more rational than average.

Morbert

womoma wrote: »

I think when people categorise themselves as "rational", they mean, comparitively rational, more rational than average.

I used to be a member of a congregationalist church (Think Calvinism without the presbyterian structure.) but I was never really a believer, so I can't say too much about that point of view. I will say that I feel atheism is a consistent view that has fit my experiences like a glove. It is perfectly reasonable to be an atheist.

starbelgrade

Wicknight wrote: »

No, humans are not rational, humans are instinctive. We are hugely biased towards accepting ideas about reality that match our instincts, independently of whether they are true or not.

That is why we very quickly ended up producing things like religion and why we eventually developed things like science.

I would say that this is a very rational explanation, but that's purely based on my instinctive reaction.