STOLEN FIREARMS (NEW APPLICATION] ADVICE

MIDLAND

HI GUYS,

I HAD MY HOUSE BROKEN IN TO LAST DECEMBER, THE TOOK MY GUN CABNET, WITH 3 GUNS IN SIDE IT,

IM LOOKING FOR ANY ADVICE ON MY NEW APPLICATION,

I PUT A DEPOSIT ON 2 GUNS JANUARY THIS YEAR, SHOT GUN AND .22 RIFLE, GOT THE DETAILS, WENT TO LOCAL GARDAI, FILLED OUT THE FORMS ETC, GUN CLUB MEMBERSHIP CARD,

GOT A CALL IN MARCH , FROM THE GARDIA, THE WOULD NEED 3 FARMERS NAMES, NO PROBLEM DONE THAT STRAIGHT AWAY.

GOT A CALL IN JUNE , FIREARMS INSPECTOR, SHE WANTED TO CALL AND CHECK ,HOUSE AND GUN STORAGE, HOUSE IS ALARMED AND GUN BOX BOLTED TO WALL, HAD TO CAMOFLAGE THE BOX SHE SAYS, NO PROBLEM I SAID, DONE THAT I WEEK , GAVE HER A CALL , CAME OUT STRAIGHT AWAY. PERFECT JOB SHE TOLD ME, WILL PASS ON THE PAPER WORK TO SUPERINTENDANT, THAT WAS EARLY JUNE, HAVNT HEAR A WORD SINCE,

ITS GETTING NEAR THE 1 NOVEMBER NOW AND NO SHOTGUN,

SHOULD I RING THE LOCAL GARDAI , OR WHO COULD I CONTACT TO FIND OUT , WHATS GOING ON,

deerhunter1

MIDLAND wrote: »

HI GUYS,

I HAD MY HOUSE BROKEN IN TO LAST DECEMBER, THE TOOK MY GUN CABNET, WITH 3 GUNS IN SIDE IT,

IM LOOKING FOR ANY ADVICE ON MY NEW APPLICATION,

I PUT A DEPOSIT ON 2 GUNS JANUARY THIS YEAR, SHOT GUN AND .22 RIFLE, GOT THE DETAILS, WENT TO LOCAL GARDAI, FILLED OUT THE FORMS ETC, GUN CLUB MEMBERSHIP CARD,

GOT A CALL IN MARCH , FROM THE GARDIA, THE WOULD NEED 3 FARMERS NAMES, NO PROBLEM DONE THAT STRAIGHT AWAY.

GOT A CALL IN JUNE , FIREARMS INSPECTOR, SHE WANTED TO CALL AND CHECK ,HOUSE AND GUN STORAGE, HOUSE IS ALARMED AND GUN BOX BOLTED TO WALL, HAD TO CAMOFLAGE THE BOX SHE SAYS, NO PROBLEM I SAID, DONE THAT I WEEK , GAVE HER A CALL , CAME OUT STRAIGHT AWAY. PERFECT JOB SHE TOLD ME, WILL PASS ON THE PAPER WORK TO SUPERINTENDANT, THAT WAS EARLY JUNE, HAVNT HEAR A WORD SINCE,

ITS GETTING NEAR THE 1 NOVEMBER NOW AND NO SHOTGUN,

SHOULD I RING THE LOCAL GARDAI , OR WHO COULD I CONTACT TO FIND OUT , WHATS GOING ON,

Give them a call or dop in to see them that is what they are for. If you were being refused I would say you would have heard by now. They are probably waiting for the new licences. Good Luck

Rovi

Some off-topicness deleted.

Folks, if there's something that needs attending to, please use the Report Post button.
Thanks.


MIDLAND:
Please don't post in ALL CAPITALS, it's the Internet equivalent of SHOUTING.


As Deerhunter has already said, it's probably best to drop into the Station and have a chat.
It looks like the theft of your previous guns wasn't being held against you, as the new applications were accepted and the security inspection went well; I'd strongly suspect that your applications just got caught up in the changeover to the new licensing system.

MIDLAND

sorry about the capitals,

mid

endasmail

dont mind me asking mid ,but they just rip the safe off the wall completely?

gunshy

glad you posted midland about this ,i will look at my security arrangements...hope it turns out o.k for u in the future..

DMZ

MIDLAND wrote: »

HI GUYS,

I HAD MY HOUSE BROKEN IN TO LAST DECEMBER, THE TOOK MY GUN CABNET, WITH 3 GUNS IN SIDE IT,

IM LOOKING FOR ANY ADVICE ON MY NEW APPLICATION,

I PUT A DEPOSIT ON 2 GUNS JANUARY THIS YEAR, SHOT GUN AND .22 RIFLE, GOT THE DETAILS, WENT TO LOCAL GARDAI, FILLED OUT THE FORMS ETC, GUN CLUB MEMBERSHIP CARD,

GOT A CALL IN MARCH , FROM THE GARDIA, THE WOULD NEED 3 FARMERS NAMES, NO PROBLEM DONE THAT STRAIGHT AWAY.

GOT A CALL IN JUNE , FIREARMS INSPECTOR, SHE WANTED TO CALL AND CHECK ,HOUSE AND GUN STORAGE, HOUSE IS ALARMED AND GUN BOX BOLTED TO WALL, HAD TO CAMOFLAGE THE BOX SHE SAYS, NO PROBLEM I SAID, DONE THAT I WEEK , GAVE HER A CALL , CAME OUT STRAIGHT AWAY. PERFECT JOB SHE TOLD ME, WILL PASS ON THE PAPER WORK TO SUPERINTENDANT, THAT WAS EARLY JUNE, HAVNT HEAR A WORD SINCE,

ITS GETTING NEAR THE 1 NOVEMBER NOW AND NO SHOTGUN,

SHOULD I RING THE LOCAL GARDAI , OR WHO COULD I CONTACT TO FIND OUT , WHATS GOING ON,

Bad news for you, the legislation is very clear in the matter of the time lapse from when the application was made, if you have not received a response in three months, then unfortunately in law your applications are deemed refused.

Unfortunately it is a case where you as a victim are now being victimised, unfortunatley you would have had 30 days to appeal the refusal to the district court and this appears to have passed also.

The complication here of course is that you have been badly advised, you need not have made fresh applications for your fireamrs as you are already licenced for them, you should have had your current firearms certificates updated with the new descriptions and numbers, technically your licenses are still in force and like everyone else you should have received extensions in the mail, now it would not be beyond the Gardai to cancel or revoke your existing certificates without telling you, anything could have happened, either way you are being punished for being the victim of a crime against you.

My advice would be to discuss your problems with the Garda Firearms Policy unit 6661911, that is what they are there for and failing a reasonable outcome I would then proceed to the Garda Ombudsman.

Happy Hunting!

rrpc

DMZ wrote: »

Bad news for you, the legislation is very clear in the matter of the time lapse from when the application was made, if you have not received a response in three months, then unfortunately in law your applications are deemed refused.

That law has only been commenced and if it was true in your case, you would also have to have a notice of refusal and the reason for the refusal.

The rest of what DMZ said being based on incorrect reference to uncommenced statute law (at the time of application) should also be ignored.

Your first port of call is your Garda Station or your Superintendent's office to see what the hold up is. It's quite probably (as Rovi said) a result of crossing into the transition period of the new licences and either way you're going to have to fill out the new form. So talk to them and see what they want.

There's no point going to any other agencies until you know there actually is a problem and what that problem is.

jwshooter

im i wrong i saying if you made a application for a firearm or mod in writing there obliged to notify you in writing if they refuse you,under section 10 of the garda code of conduct.
you can also look for the reason for the refusal.

rrpc

jwshooter wrote: »

im i wrong i saying if you made a application for a firearm or mod in writing there obliged to notify you in writing if they refuse you,under section 10 of the garda code of conduct.
you can also look for the reason for the refusal.

The chap hasn't been refused as far as I can tell, and he hasn't even contacted his Garda station!

Calm síos

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

im i wrong i saying if you made a application for a firearm or mod in writing there obliged to notify you in writing if they refuse you,under section 10 of the garda code of conduct.

Yes, you are, both because there's a Section in the Firearms Acts that was introduced in the 2006 Criminal Justice Act that states that if you apply and haven't heard back from the Super three months later, you're deemed to have been refused and notified; and because the Garda Code of Conduct has no legal weight. You can't prosecute a Garda for not following it, ergo, it has no real meaning. It's like the signs in Tesco car parks saying the management accepts no liability for damage done to cars parked there - meaningless, and only designed to discourage lawsuits.

MIDLAND

thanks guys,
a lot of comments, bit confused now, i taught my self the would of given me a reason for refusal,or at least a call or letter,
best to get in contact with the local first,

im shooting 20 years now,well i was, on till this happened,

endasmail, i wont go into exact detail, to long of a storey,

i build a new house last year, just moved in when all this happend, the box was hid away in a walkin wardrobe, the house was full of family christmas present, not a thing touched, from the alarm details there were 3 people and there were in the house for 2 minutes, whice is hard to belive,
i think myself , the new exactly where the were going, cops said probly travelers, anyway its of to the local gardai.
mid

rrpc

MIDLAND wrote: »

anyway its of to the local gardai.
mid

That's all you need to do right now.

Call in and see what needs to be done.

pajero2005

MIDLAND wrote: »

HI GUYS,

I HAD MY HOUSE BROKEN IN TO LAST DECEMBER, THE TOOK MY GUN CABNET, WITH 3 GUNS IN SIDE IT,

Just a tip on bolting a gun safe to the wall. If you can get your hands on some "hilti hit 150" pump it into the holes before putting in the bolts. It is used for chemically anchoring re bar into concrete and sets like a rock. Only problem is if you ever want to move house you wont be bringing your gun safe.:eek:


http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:uLZbsKmywImLPM:http://www.northlandconstruction.com/products/1522/orig/05-7492%2520copy.jpg

It looks like this

Rovi

HILTI Chemical Anchors

Wonderful stuff, and is replacing conventional expanding bolts and the like in many concrete fixing situations.

MIDLAND

pajero, bang on,

thats the stuff i used this time, rock solid, the chimley may come down now if the want the box,

funny enought i heard a while back 2-3 year ago, this happened in wicklow somwhere, the f*****g broke a upstairs window , put a big strap around the chimley and pulled it down with a jeep, took the box with something like 10 firearms,

the more secuirty the better,

if any has any tips post here,

mid

rrpc

MIDLAND wrote: »

if any has any tips post here,

mid

Well if it's a plastered wall, take all the render off the blockwork and fix the safe directly to the blockwork. Plaster back up to the edge of the safe and nothing can get behind it.

Somebody else suggested welding chain to the inside of the safe at trigger height and pull that through the trigger guards and padlock it.

Have another safe for rifle bolts, shotgun fore ends and another one for ammo.

Always conceal your safes, and never leave the keys in the house.

Bananaman

And don't tell anyone who shouldn't know that you are the owner of a firearm.

Some scobe on patrol is not going to take your safe - he's after the shiny stuff - someone who took your safe knew it was there and came for it specifically.

Loose tongues.......

B'Man

Grizzly 45

If anyone has anyone leaving heavy construction equipment in the neighbourhood of your house,a quiet word about disabling the things at night/weekends might be in order??Considering that I doubt anyones house is able to withstand an a Bulldozer attack.Seriously it's abit extreme the situation BUT, if they have no scruples in ripping out an ATM,would they think twice about demolishing your house to get the guns??
Dissambling is fine,but some guns like revolvers,or target pistols are impossible to do.
So best to do there is get a newer version of the trigger locks.Or hide the pistol safe somwhere as well.
Personally,despite the safes,alarms etc.I feel having all the stuff in one box isnt a good idea.They get the safe they have the lot... BUT,if thats the way "The Man" wants it...so be it.
I still think a "dispersal" of everything broken down,in "stashes" around the house,[and only you know those hidey holes,which everyone has in their property;)],is still one of the safest.I had practical expriance of this back in the 1980s when our place was burgled,one gun went missing ,three survived.They walked over and under them at least a dozen times.
If you can do it and it is affordable,maybe single gun safes in one of these stash points is a option,and to prevent multiple keys lying around get them "keyed alike".[IE one key opens multiple locks]This is a locksmith job,but is very doable.

TIME is a burglars enemy,the longer he has to search or jemmy the better his chances of being caught.So deny him the time as much as possible.

BE Aware.[your country needs wares! LOL].Start noticing things around your neighbourhood/property that dont fit in.Like lads parked up in cars,that have been there almost all the time ,same time everyday.
Odd phone calls,can be somone seeing is anyone home.There is loads of stuff like that,and without writnig an essay on it.Basic common sense on some personal security helps alot.Actually,ask your local Garda,who inspects your alarm and safe for some personal security tips on this.

foxshooter243

rrpc wrote: »

Well if it's a plastered wall, take all the render off the blockwork and fix the safe directly to the blockwork. Plaster back up to the edge of the safe and nothing can get behind it.

Somebody else suggested welding chain to the inside of the safe at trigger height and pull that through the trigger guards and padlock it.

Have another safe for rifle bolts, shotgun fore ends and another one for ammo.

Always conceal your safes, and never leave the keys in the house.

spent two days on mines last week doing the very same, then fitted angle iron straps to the sides and bolted those to the wall as anti-jemmy devices, its alaways a good idea if possible to fit your safe into a left hand corner as this makes it very awkward to use a jemmy on the door. I then screwed it down into the joists through the floor and alarmed the room .

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dissambling is fine,but some guns like revolvers,or target pistols are impossible to do.

Be a bloody funny target pistol that you couldn't break down to several parts Grizzly, the smallbore ones break down the same way the fullbore ones do for cleaning and maintenance.
Airguns - the hand-cranked type rather than the precompressed type - are about the only kind of target shooting firearm I can think of that won't disassemble. And maybe the single-shot 50m pistols, but those aren't really going to be targets as such. It's mainly shotguns the opportunistic thieves go for.

Sparks

Oh, and a minor point - if you're in an area prone to flooding and your safe's going to be below the waterline in the event of flooding, raise it up when mounting it...

Lesson #320 from DURC's underground range!


And someone mentioned last year on here that if you used silicone sealing compound around the edge of the back of the safe before attaching to the wall, that that would also act as an anti-jimmying measure.

bigred

Sparks wrote: »

Airguns - the hand-cranked type rather than the precompressed type - are about the only kind of target shooting firearm I can think of that won't disassemble.

Jaysus Sparks, you seem to forget your own one that strips itself after about 10 shots every time :P:P

Sparks

Well, mine's a special case bigred
The newer hand-cranked air pistols like the FWB103 and the hand-cranked air rifles like the FWB600 series, they don't dissassemble too readily. Not in a quickly repairable way anyway

BornToKill

foxshooter243 wrote: »

spent two days on mines last week

A bit extreme! Is that in the accommodation order?

DMZ

rrpc wrote: »

That law has only been commenced and if it was true in your case, you would also have to have a notice of refusal and the reason for the refusal.

The rest of what DMZ said being based on incorrect reference to uncommenced statute law (at the time of application) should also be ignored.

Your first port of call is your Garda Station or your Superintendent's office to see what the hold up is. It's quite probably (as Rovi said) a result of crossing into the transition period of the new licences and either way you're going to have to fill out the new form. So talk to them and see what they want.

There's no point going to any other agencies until you know there actually is a problem and what that problem is.

Why are you so agressive, the commencment order which enacted Section 43 of of the CJA 2006 was SI 390 of 2006, this was effective 1st August 2006, what is your problem.

The substantial issue with this situation is that the chap should never have had to make new applications for firearms, the fact that they were stolen means that he was a victim, he should have simply purchased similar firearms and made application for amendment on his current certificates which are still in force even now.

He was badly advised in having to make new applications.

You are very agressive on the point that because in your opinion I erred in law that the rest of my post be ignored? Where are you coming from?

foxshooter243

BornToKill wrote: »

A bit extreme! Is that in the accommodation order?

secured to a solid wall is the requirement-however!- most break ins are in order to grab high value portable gear, its pretty hard to open a gunsafe unless you have cutting gear with you , I reckon my safe would take quite a bit of work to prise free from the wall and anyone that wants it is gonna have to put the time in to get it;)-time on site is what they dont like:)

Rovi

foxshooter243 wrote: »

secured to a solid wall is the requirement-however!- most break ins are in order to grab high value portable gear, its pretty hard to open a gunsafe unless you have cutting gear with you , I reckon my safe would take quite a bit of work to prise free from the wall and anyone that wants it is gonna have to put the time in to get it;)-time on site is what they dont like:)

WHOOOSH!


I think BTK was referring to one particular word in your previous post:

foxshooter243 wrote: »

spent two days on mines last week

foxshooter243

Rovi wrote: »

WHOOOSH!


I think BTK was referring to one particular word in your previous post:

ah ok:D:D:D-good idea-who sells them:pac::pac:

BornToKill

Rovi wrote: »

I think BTK was referring to one particular word in your previous post:

Ah surely was. The anti-personnel mines are security level five!

elius

A vicous dog always helps.. More so when its election time ;-).. Endasmail also got a first hand greating.. "get this dog off me" haha

rrpc

DMZ wrote: »

Why are you so agressive, the commencment order which enacted Section 43 of of the CJA 2006 was SI 390 of 2006, this was effective 1st August 2006, what is your problem.

Being emphatic is not being aggressive last time I checked

Section 43 is only of use if the person has been refused, which is not the case here. Secondly you had stated that he was deemed refused if he hadn't got a response within three months of applying which isn't the case as that section of the act wasn't commenced at the time he applied.

The substantial issue with this situation is that the chap should never have had to make new applications for firearms, the fact that they were stolen means that he was a victim, he should have simply purchased similar firearms and made application for amendment on his current certificates which are still in force even now.

This is quite true, but of not much use to the chap as he has now gone down the road of reapplying by some considerable distance. Telling him this is akin to giving someone directions on the basis that "I wouldn't start from here"

You are very agressive on the point that because in your opinion I erred in law that the rest of my post be ignored? Where are you coming from?

Emphatic, not aggressive . The purpose of the emphasis was to make sure that the OP didn't become confused with incorrect and contradictory advice that flew in the face of all the advice given by everyone else here; namely that he contact his Garda Station first.

And finally, the advice given by the FPU at the Ranges conference is that individuals should first contact their associations who will then contact the FPU on their behalf.

You said that his application was deemed refused which was wrong, you then said that his appeal period was expired (wrong again) and finally stated he should contact the FPU which was the wrong way to go yet again. The only thing you got right was that he started from the wrong place :rolleyes:

MIDLAND

so, i should have looked for amendment on the stolen firarms,
on the day of the robbery the cop, who called to the house, told me thats it , you might never get a firearm again, yeah right i said, but he did say you may start all over again, leave it for a year or 2,(what no way) i said,

any way , went to the local gardai, very nice lad, but not helpful,

its completly out of my hand he said, you may just wait,
the delay must be with the 3 year applications,

looks like i may borrow a friends shot gun for the 1 november,
the foxys are running everywhere now, the know there safe,

mid

rrpc

MIDLAND wrote: »

any way , went to the local gardai, very nice lad, but not helpful,

its completly out of my hand he said, you may just wait,
the delay must be with the 3 year applications,

From what you're saying, the application was never processed. It's probably still with the Superintendents office if it's no longer in your station.

The problem is that we are now into a new licensing regime and you've missed the boat because you weren't on the system when the extensions came out and you've an application in that was made under the old system.

At this stage, you should contact your district Superintendent, ask what the status of your application is and also ask does he need a new FCA1 form filled in for your new firearms.

pajero2005

MIDLAND wrote: »

the foxys are running everywhere now, the know there safe,

mid

Have tools, will travel:D:D:D

foxshooter243

just some info that I have been made aware off, it s just become known to me that a lad i know that had a 9mm pistol and a 243 rifle stolen earlier this year had his certs amended to show the serial numbers of replacement firearms..he had his security checked first though....good luck with yours;)

MIDLAND

foxshooter243 wrote: »

just some info that I have been made aware off, it s just become known to me that a lad i know that had a 9mm pistol and a 243 rifle stolen earlier this year had his certs amended to show the serial numbers of replacement firearms..he had his security checked first though....good luck with yours;)

what part of the country was that foxshooter,

i wish i knew all this infomation in the early days, im sure i would have my guns well sorted by now,
anyway, thanks for all the info,
mid

deerhunter1

MIDLAND wrote: »

what part of the country was that foxshooter,

i wish i knew all this infomation in the early days, im sure i would have my guns well sorted by now,
anyway, thanks for all the info,
mid

Limerick area