Who Do You Prefer - Week 9: CM Punk vs Samoa Joe

Gerard.C

Week One - Stone Cold (49) b Ric Flair (5)
Week Two - The Rock (44) b Shawn Michaels (40)
Week Three - The Undertaker (36) drew with Bret Hart (36)
Week Four - Chris Jericho (58) b Rey Mysterio (7)
Week Five - Hulk Hogan (37) drew with Chris Benoit (37)
Week Six - Triple H (32) b John Cena (25)
Week Seven - Randy Savage (30) b Randy Orton (19)
Week Eight - The Dudleyz (35) b The Road Warriors (23)

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A few years ago Joe and Punk had two of the finest matches in not only Ring Of Honor, but wrestling History. They were the centre of that company in their day. Since then both have joined up with the Number 1 and 2 promotions in America and done particularly well for themselves. Who gets your nod?

I'm really torn between these two. Joe has had some UNREAL matches but I haven't seen anything of his really since his 3 ways in TNA with AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels. Punk is really coming into his own these days in WWE and is finally going to be used as the great heel he can be, though I did enjoy his run as a face too. I'm going to vote for Joe for the simple reason that I think he has a better back catalogue of Matches than Punk.

Gerard.C

yes, I forgot the 'a' in Samoa in the poll question, sue me

Machismo Fan

I voted Joe as I've only seen Punk's work in WWE and there was only really one match of his that really blew me away (with Mysterio). And while I've only seen Joe's stuff in TNA it is much better. Whether it's with Styles, Daniels, Christian, Angle or even a good match with Steiner (and his awesome match with Sabin at No Surrender 2005 (which was a fantastic PPV by the way)) most of it has been really, really great.

michael.etc...

Jesus Christ. Two of my favourite active guys.

I don't personally like the idea of comparing two modern day stars who are so completely different, but it's a good opportunity to recommend some stuff that others may have missed, and these two have had fascinating careers.

I'm going to pick CM Punk.

Punk is, in my book, the complete package, as far as a modern day pro-wrestler is. He's talented in the ring (to the point where he's underrated by some), is outstanding on the microphone, has the ability to work either as a face or a heel, is very knowledgable, and has a great mind for the business, and by being rather unique, is widely marketable. And right now, he's playing a compelling character, and producing some of the best material on TV all year. By contrast, as much as i love Joe, I think he'd have benefited from more sensible marketing and creative support over the past two years,his performances have suffered, and at points he's seemed almost resigned to his role. (that said, i think Joe could be a massive star, who could crossover and be one of the few to appeal to MMA followers). For me, and i genuinely feel bad about this- i think Joe has had his best days, and due to injury and health, will never again have the sort of matches he had when he was in his last couple of years in ROH.

In ROH, Punk raised eyebrows largely through his incredible promos, and by being involved in some hot angles (the Raven feud springs to mind). During these, he carried himself like a star, and stood out immediately as more than a bland Indy guy. And he had some top-drawer matches as well. His work in the tag ranks was pretty special, alongside Colt Cabana, and they had some fab clashes with the Briscoes. But i always thought he shined more in singles competition. of Particular note...

As ROH champion, he had some corking outings, against Jay Lethal, James Gibson, and in the Four-way where he lost the strap.
His title victory at Death Before Dishonor 3, over Austin Aries, was an absolute blast- but not as exciting as his shocking heel turn immediately afterwards. This is a grand example of how good he can be as a babyface.
Immediately before winning the title, he was having some of the most intense bouts of his career, against Jimmy Rave, including a top-drawer cage match at Nowhere to Run. He also had a cracker against Roderick Strong, and not long before that, one with Alex Shelley.

Plus, who can forget about his outstanding series against Joe himself?

Meanwhile, in WWE, while he has been limited by their format (especially in regards to time), and hindered because he works in an unconventional manner that can look awkward against those schooled only in the "WWE-style", he has shown his class each opportunity he's been given. Against John Morrison on ECW, Rey at Armageddon, Jericho on Raw, and most recently, Jeff Hardy, Edge, and Morrison, he's looked world-class.

Close call- but for me, Punk has untapped potential and has been in the position of late to show far more of it.

Bounty Hunter

CM Punk to win by a landslide as the masses (WWE viewers) have seen him wrestle

flahavaj

I'm going to have to mull this one over. Gerard C you are an evil genius.

DM_7

I am in no position to compare both Guys in ROH and the Indy's. I have watched matches here ane there and enjoyed both guys work.


Punk, took a WWE development deal, served his time in the lower part of the card, has really capitalised on his positioning in recent month made a real impact as a main event guy.

Joe, Started in a great spot in TNA, was pushed hard, Got a great chance to be a star when he fueded with Angle, He has had some great matches and there is no questioing his ability. Since his Angle feud he hasn't really capitalised on it (As far as I can see) for whatever reasons (Maybe lacked enough support?).

At the moment I am comparing the position both are in

Punk is in WWE and Involved with the star of Wrestling Jeff Hardy

Joe is in TNA and becoming an Apprentice to Tazz.

As King first said on behalf of JR , Punk Wins, Punk Wins, Punk Wins.

DM_7

Gerard.C wrote: »

yes, I forgot the 'a' in Samoa in the poll question, sue me

Should change the A you included to u

I went for a fat joke, sue me........

JP Liz

Punk is on fire as of late especially his heel turn and feud with Jeff Hardy but i still picked Joe even though not keen on him joining MEM

Machismo Fan

DM-ICE wrote: »

Joe, Started in a great spot in TNA, was pushed hard, Got a great chance to be a star when he fueded with Angle, He has had some great matches and there is no questioing his ability. Since his Angle feud he hasn't really capitalised on it (As far as I can see) for whatever reasons (Maybe lacked enough support?).

That's because the second they got Angle in they forgot all about Joe as they had a "real star" in Angle. Sure the first thing they did with Angle is throw away a year and a half's work building up Joe in favour of concentrating on Angle. Joe, the star many thought would carry TNA to new levels, was abandoned, forgotten about and really only ever treated as an afterthought since (even during his title run to an extent).

flahavaj

Decided on Punk. Hes now showing the world on Smackdown what I and others have known since 2002. Awesome promos, really good worker, seems to have a great mind and passion foir the business, this guy is going all the way to the top. Michael etc has done a far better job than I could at summarising his awesome ROH run. Certainly the "Summer of Punk" when he won the belt and kept hold of it when he was supposed to sign for WWE and when he turned on the ROH fans was absolutely epic, compelling stuff, as good as anything this decade. When they do another "best heel" poll in another 10 years' time, I boldly predict that not only will Punk be on it, he'll win the whole thing. He really is that damn good in my honest opinion.

If we had done this poll in 2005/6 I'd have said Joe. Around that time he had legitimate claims to being the best in the world. He was putting on match after match of stunning quality, inclusing the first 5 star match in North America in donkey's years against Kobashi. But he has deteriorated quite shockingly of late. Yes, he has been treated shockingly by TNA management after an awesome initial push, but he has also piled on the pounds and the young hungry (no pun intended!) guy who seemed determined on having match of the night everytime out ion ROH has been replaced by a guy whos just as happy to coast through TNA. Such a pity as I loved the guy.

DM_7

flahavaj wrote: »

has been replaced by a guy whos just as happy to coast through TNA. Such a pity as I loved the guy.

Good post, but your a bit harsh to say he is happy to coast along. He can't go out and kill himself every week when doing so saw him end up in a poor spot for the work he put in.

He could probably do with taking three of four months off to have a rest and make TNA appreciate his talent.

flahavaj

DM-ICE wrote: »

Good post, but your a bit harsh to say he is happy to coast along. He can't go out and kill himself every week when doing so saw him end up in a poor spot for the work he put in.

He could probably do with taking three of four months off to have a rest and make TNA appreciate his talent.

The coasting thing was more a reference to the fact hes piled on the weight etc. He just doesn't seem like the same guy to me that set the world alight in 2005. I don't necessarily blame him either, hes been misused so badly by TNA.

smilerf

i went with punk
joe overweight and it looks as if he couldnt b arsed
punk keeps in shape and is decent in the ring

CMpunked

I base this soely on todays activities.

Punk was a face and went over, but he became a heel and has raced to the top of the ladder, somewhere that his rival, Jeff Hardy, has taken years to accomplish.

Joe the same, became huge as a face and rightly so.
But he turned heel and maybe its TNAs booking, or the whole MEM idea, but it didnt intrege me as much as punk.


So in short, Punk gets my vote (suprise suprise )

geeky

Leaning towards punk, but I wanna see some of Joe's supposed masterpieces in early TNA/ROH - anyone have links to his best matches, or the Joe vs Punk series?

chopperbyrne

Punk.

I've seen their ROH series of matches and since then, Punk has gone on to bigger and better things while Joe has gone on to get fatter than he was, get lame tattoos and have lots of crap matches in TNA.

His feud with Angle should have been the start of something really big for him, but he has just gotten worse and worse since then.

Punk is currently on a huge push in WWE and is probably their biggest heel right now.

gimmick

geeky wrote: »

Leaning towards punk, but I wanna see some of Joe's supposed masterpieces in early TNA/ROH - anyone have links to his best matches, or the Joe vs Punk series?

^ you will have to buy some DVDs and scour Youtube my friend.

I went for Joe, by a whisker. For a man of his size, his catalogue of matches are incredible. he is responsible for bring ROH to the public attention with his almost 2 year title run, helped build TNA and had his fair share of great matches there as well.

In ROH had some great feuds with Homicide, Christopher Daniels, Brian Danielson and CM Punk. He can cut a decent promo as well.

If both men were in the same promotion this would be an easier one to gauge, as there is no saying how WWE would have treated Joe - a bona fide contender, or lumber him with some god awful fat samoan gimmick.

rossie1977

flahavaj wrote: »

If we had done this poll in 2005/6 I'd have said Joe. Around that time he had legitimate claims to being the best in the world. He was putting on match after match of stunning quality, inclusing the first 5 star match in North America in donkey's years against Kobashi. But he has deteriorated quite shockingly of late. Yes, he has been treated shockingly by TNA management after an awesome initial push, but he has also piled on the pounds and the young hungry (no pun intended!) guy who seemed determined on having match of the night everytime out ion ROH has been replaced by a guy whos just as happy to coast through TNA. Such a pity as I loved the guy.

this for me, the angle series should have turned joe into the next superstar in waiting, instead he has been gradually treated worse and worse since that angle, his billing of 280 is quite conservative too these days looking at him in dublin in january

personally i think joe needs a change of scene, he has gone as far as he will go in tna, wwe might be an option but they would probably just have him bare his a*s on screen and scream and rant some crazy island speak

Handsome Bob

I didn't much care for Punk as a face, however with this heel turn he has become one of the few superstars that I go out of my way to catch each week. I've become slightly bored of Joe now, the novelty at first of a big guy being so agile was a breath of fresh air but for me the affect has worn off. Punk for me, just.

I just hope once this feud with Jeff is over that Punk can mantain the high standard he has set himself. I have my reservations though as Jeff is the perfect foil to Punk's straight egde gimmick. I just hope that it is not downhill from here.

Fozzy

Based on their ring work I'd vote Joe, although as great as he once was he just isn't near that level anymore

But Punk entertained me more than any other wrestler for a period of about two years where everything he did was just great. Finally a lot more people are starting to see what he's really good at

bigeasyeah

I didnt vote for Punk because something about him grates on me.

michael.etc...

geeky wrote: »

Leaning towards punk, but I wanna see some of Joe's supposed masterpieces in early TNA/ROH - anyone have links to his best matches, or the Joe vs Punk series?

You should fork out for a few DVD's sometime. The service from ROH is excellent, and most of the DVD's available, featuring Punk (or Joe for that matter) are part of their frequent ten dollar sales.

I'd recommend...

Punk: The Final Chapter (vs Cabana, Punk's last ROH match)
Redemption (vs Joe/Daniels/Gibson- awesome match)
Escape from New York (vs Roderick Strong)
Death Before Dishonor III (vs Austin Aries)
Nowhere to Run (vs Jimmy Rave in a Steel Cage match)
Manhattan Mayhem (vs Jimmy Rave in a dog Collar match)
Joe vs Punk 2
World title Classic (joe/punk 1)
All Star Extravaganza 2 (Joe/Punk 3)
Death Before Dishonor 2 Night 1 (w/Cabana vs the Briscoes)
Generation Next (great show, confrontation with Ricky Steamboat)

Gerard.C

30-10 to punk