Eoin Kelly (Tipp) v Henry Shefflin

Spiritoftheseventies

After weeks of intensive debate and voting, I can now announce that Eoin Kelly has won the Munster hurler of the decade. Attached link to the poll which shows how close it was in the end.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055624216&page=7

I am now putting him up against Henry Shefflin (Kilkenny) in a head to head for best hurler of the decade. Poll closes in two weeks time
Place your vote and anyone is free to talk up any other Leinster players in the process.

Tigerbaby

Sheflin

Spiritoftheseventies

Tigerbaby wrote: »

Sheflin

thanks for the contribution but can you place your vote in the poll.

premierstone

Very hard to compare and while Im sure Shefflin will win this poll, persoanlly I think if you had have put Eoin Kelly on that KK team over the last 10 years you might have a different result, Kelly has basically been a one -man forward in a stuttering team whereas Shefflin has been the shinning light in a star-studded all conquering team so obviously Sheeflin is going to stand out more.

I would say Shefflin is a better free-taker (Kelly has always had a very annoying habit of missing one every game - never anymore than one mind you) but skill wise I would rate Kelly higher for a guy with he's genuine lack of pace to win 6 all-stars on an under achieving team is phenomenal tbf

Spiritoftheseventies

premierstone wrote: »

Very hard to compare and while Im sure Shefflin will win this poll, persoanlly I think if you had have put Eoin Kelly on that KK team over the last 10 years you might have a different result, Kelly has basically been a one -man forward in a stuttering team whereas Shefflin has been the shinning light in a star-studded all conquering team so obviously Sheeflin is going to stand out more.

I would say Shefflin is a better free-taker (Kelly has always had a very annoying habit of missing one every game - never anymore than one mind you) but skill wise I would rate Kelly higher for a guy with he's genuine lack of pace to win 6 all-stars on an under achieving team is phenomenal tbf

Shefflin a consummate free taker but he was outstanding from play on Sunday. But take your point not as much pressure on him to deliver because so many Kilkenny forwards can step up at any time as had been in evidence this season.

premierstone

bayviewclose wrote: »

Shefflin a consummate free taker but he was outstanding from play on Sunday. But take your point not as much pressure on him to deliver because so many Kilkenny forwards can step up at any time as had been in evidence this season.

Yeah exactly I mean Shefflin has had off days but someone like Larkin or Brennan step up and its not as noticeable, but apart from this year invariably if Kelly had an off day Tipp lost

Sand Wedge

Has to be Joe Canning!

Tigerbaby

oops... myopia ... done now. thanks

Spiritoftheseventies

Sand Wedge wrote: »

Has to be Joe Canning!

Yes was tempted to put Canning in but he has only two seasons behind him so please god if we are all around in ten years he will be in the next poll!

premierstone

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes was tempted to put Canning in but he has only two seasons behind him so please god if we are all around in ten years he will be in the next poll!

Two seasons and one of them was decidedly ordinary to say the least and the year before that was held scoreless in what was his third minor AI anyone remember the Tipp player who never gave him a sniff of it that day despite the fact that he himself had another year minor left???

Spiritoftheseventies

premierstone wrote: »

Two seasons and one of them was decidedly ordinary to say the least and the year before that was held scoreless in what was his third minor AI anyone remember the Tipp player who never gave him a sniff of it that day despite the fact that he himself had another year minor left???

Think you are being a bit harsh on Canning. Last season he turned in arguably the display of the year against Cork and this year he has been good again. Problem is how to get quality ball into him.
And for such a young lad he seems to be incredibly mature for his age.

premierstone

bayviewclose wrote: »

Think you are being a bit harsh on Canning. Last season he turned in arguably the display of the year against Cork and this year he has been good again. Problem is how to get quality ball into him.
And for such a young lad he seems to be incredibly mature for his age.

I didnt think he was very good this year at all, think he scored what 1-2 from play in 3 matches?? He doesnt look anywhere near fit to me, Im not trying to knock the guy I think he has the potential to be up there with the all time greats but I feel that people are a bit too keen to build him up this soon when he hasnt actually delivered it consistently at the top level, if you take out the performance against Cork last year then he's senior inter-county career has been good but certainly not mind blowing like some people would have you believe.

Apologies for dragging this thread off topic

flahavaj

Shefflin by a considerasble margin. Hes the greatest player the game has ever seen. if you put him in the Tipp side the past decade he'd still be regarded as such.

Spiritoftheseventies

premierstone wrote: »

I didnt think he was very good this year at all, think he scored what 1-2 from play in 3 matches?? He doesnt look anywhere near fit to me, Im not trying to knock the guy I think he has the potential to be up there with the all time greats but I feel that people are a bit too keen to build him up this soon when he hasnt actually delivered it consistently at the top level, if you take out the performance against Cork last year then he's senior inter-county career has been good but certainly not mind blowing like some people would have you believe.

Apologies for dragging this thread off topic

No problems. Anyway anyone want to put out any other Leinster players that stand out from the last ten years and not necessarily nearing the end of their careers.

premierstone

bayviewclose wrote: »

No problems. Anyway anyone want to put out any other Leinster players that stand out from the last ten years and not necessarily nearing the end of their careers.

This probably wont be popular but Im speaking strictly from a hurling point of view, to me Tommy Walsh has to be on any shortlist the guy is a genius (flawed no doubt but arent they all) he's versatility and will to win mark him out for me, just remember he started out and won an All-star as a wing forward and also has an All-star at cornerback nad is not regarded as one of the most dependable wing backs in the game, put it this way if you were and intercounty wing forward who is the last guy you would want to mark, think the majority would like to avoid Tommy.

flahavaj

I agree with premierstone, the name that crossed my mind out of the dozens of fine KK hurlers of the last decade is Tommy Walsh. Unbelievable hurler. no one has ever even come close to cleaning hm out on any given day. I've been to most major hurling matches of the past 5-6 years and I always pay attention to watching him closely and hes just something else. Unreal ability to field a high ball, made all the more impressive considering hes a smaller guy. Hes the consumate all round hurler and as you say has won All stars all over the field. If he keeps present form up he could even surpass Shefflin as the greatest ever.

The other name that comes to mind perhaps is Cha, though he may need a few more years at the top.

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

I agree with premierstone, the name that crossed my mind out of the dozens of fine KK hurlers of the last decade is Tommy Walsh. Unbelievable hurler. no one has ever even come close to cleaning hm out on any given day. I've been to most major hurling matches of the past 5-6 years and I always pay attention to watching him closely and hes just something else. Unreal ability to field a high ball, made all the more impressive considering hes a smaller guy. Hes the consumate all round hurler and as you say has won All stars all over the field. If he keeps present form up he could even surpass Shefflin as the greatest ever.

The other name that comes to mind perhaps is Cha, though he may need a few more years at the top.

+1 on Walsh. His reading of the game is excellent. Terrific catcher.

Warper

Sand Wedge wrote: »

Has to be Joe Canning!

Joe Canning is over-hyped. Take away his frees in this years Championship and he was very average. How much did he score from play against Clare, Cork or Waterford - a couple of points? Plus he had the last chance of the game against Waterford to pull it level and he missed it. That is the difference between the great players like Kelly or Shefflin and Canning.

Daysha

Ken McGrath

HHH

premierstone wrote: »

Two seasons and one of them was decidedly ordinary to say the least and the year before that was held scoreless in what was his third minor AI anyone remember the Tipp player who never gave him a sniff of it that day despite the fact that he himself had another year minor left???

Padraig Maher from sars wasn't it? Tipp had great minor team that year!

premierstone

HHH wrote: »

Padraig Maher from sars wasn't it? Tipp had great minor team that year!

Correct and right, gave an exhibition that day

deisedude

Has to be Shefflin. Unreal first touch, works hard and wins a lot of dirty ball. Can score from anywhere and a great free taker. Even if a back does hold him scoreless he creates a world of scores for other forwards.

Going a bit off topic but who do you think is/was better in their prime,
DJ Carey or Shefflin?

deccy15

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes was tempted to put Canning in but he has only two seasons behind him so please god if we are all around in ten years he will be in the next poll!

R U SERIOUS????

deccy15

premierstone wrote: »

This probably wont be popular but Im speaking strictly from a hurling point of view, to me Tommy Walsh has to be on any shortlist the guy is a genius (flawed no doubt but arent they all) he's versatility and will to win mark him out for me, just remember he started out and won an All-star as a wing forward and also has an All-star at cornerback nad is not regarded as one of the most dependable wing backs in the game, put it this way if you were and intercounty wing forward who is the last guy you would want to mark, think the majority would like to avoid Tommy.

totally agree with ya prem, has been kilkenny's best player by far during their current dynasty!!! voted 4 eoin kelly!! think he's been more consistent scoring from play over the years than shefflin has!!

MfMan

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes was tempted to put Canning in but he has only two seasons behind him so please god if we are all around in ten years he will be in the next poll!

So why not Ollie Canning? Exceptional consistency all through the decade and his club record is sublime. Not saying Henry is overrated or anything but he plays one good game a year and he is being deified a-la DJ. Don't forget, he was nowhere near JC in the club semi-final in Thurles last Spring.

MfMan

premierstone wrote: »

I didnt think he was very good this year at all, think he scored what 1-2 from play in 3 matches?? He doesnt look anywhere near fit to me, Im not trying to knock the guy I think he has the potential to be up there with the all time greats but I feel that people are a bit too keen to build him up this soon when he hasnt actually delivered it consistently at the top level, if you take out the performance against Cork last year then he's senior inter-county career has been good but certainly not mind blowing like some people would have you believe.

Apologies for dragging this thread off topic

He wasn't up to his usual standards this year, and is struggling probaby with injuries and fitness. He has delivered at *every* level he has played at; minor,U-21 (hurled Cork on his own in the closing stages of the '07 semi-final in Semple - were you there?), Fitzgibbon etc. In his Senior debut he was excellent v Cork in the league semi' and dragged Gaway back into it v Tipp in the final (were you there?) In the big club head to head this year he comprehensively outplayed Henry et al in Thurles (were you there?) Had effective games v KK, Cork, Clare and W'ford this year, if as I said not quite up to his high standards. He's better than Henry or DJ ever were at his age. Both aforementioned hurlers from KK had a lot of good but not mind-blowing games for their county - indeed both twice played on losing sides v Galway, when both were quiet. Perhaps they're the ones that are overhyped?

Apologies for dragging this thread off topic

deisedude

MfMan wrote: »

He wasn't up to his usual standards this year, and is struggling probaby with injuries and fitness. He has delivered at *every* level he has played at; minor,U-21 (hurled Cork on his own in the closing stages of the '07 semi-final in Semple - were you there?), Fitzgibbon etc. In his Senior debut he was excellent v Cork in the league semi' and dragged Gaway back into it v Tipp in the final (were you there?) In the big club head to head this year he comprehensively outplayed Henry et al in Thurles (were you there?) Had effective games v KK, Cork, Clare and W'ford this year, if as I said not quite up to his high standards. He's better than Henry or DJ ever were at his age. Both aforementioned hurlers from KK had a lot of good but not mind-blowing games for their county - indeed both twice played on losing sides v Galway, when both were quiet. Perhaps they're the ones that are overhyped?

Apologies for dragging this thread off topic

Nobody is saying he isnt a good hurler though I'd have to agree with Premierstone that his performances were nothing exceptional this year. Its crazy to compare him to Shefflin and Kelly after only 2 seasons of senior intercounty hurling. Those guys have been performing at a high level for nearly an entire decade. To call them overhyped is simply ridiculous.

Spiritoftheseventies

deisedude wrote: »

Nobody is saying he isnt a good hurler though I'd have to agree with Premierstone that his performances were nothing exceptional this year. Its crazy to compare him to Shefflin and Kelly after only 2 seasons of senior intercounty hurling. Those guys have been performing at a high level for nearly an entire decade. To call them overhyped is simply ridiculous.

On the canning issue. Joe Canning Im sure if he lives up to the early promise will be up there with the greats in ten years time. I don't think anyone would dispute that. His scoring stats are phenomenal and if he was on that Kilkenny team nobody would be debating his merits.
But back to the topic. Any more names from Leinster that warrant a mention?

Alfie Boon

deisedude wrote: »

Has to be Shefflin. Unreal first touch, works hard and wins a lot of dirty ball. Can score from anywhere and a great free taker. Even if a back does hold him scoreless he creates a world of scores for other forwards.

Going a bit off topic but who do you think is/was better in their prime,
DJ Carey or Shefflin?

Skill wise very similar.
Dj was alot faster but went missing sometimes unlike Henry.
But no one could rise a crowd like Dj and for me was the better of the 2.

Peadar87

would have to say king henry

Gingy

Henry 6 - Eoin 1.

CyberDave

Both have brilliant skill but Shefflin is much more of a leader than Kelly. Not to mention Shefflin has a few more All-Ireland medals and All-Stars than Kelly.

Spiritoftheseventies

CyberDave wrote: »

Both have brilliant skill but Shefflin is much more of a leader than Kelly. Not to mention Shefflin has a few more All-Ireland medals and All-Stars than Kelly.

Well you cant count all ireland medals really in the equation. Kelly took his goal well today.

lightning_saa

can only be shefflin

Johnnnybravo

lol King Henry DUH:rolleyes:

CyberDave

bayviewclose wrote: »

Well you cant count all ireland medals really in the equation. Kelly took his goal well today.

Of course you take All-Ireland medals into account. Why wouldn't you?

road_high

CyberDave wrote: »

Of course you take All-Ireland medals into account. Why wouldn't you?

.....cos Eoin Kelly has so few of them of course

deisedude

CyberDave wrote: »

Of course you take All-Ireland medals into account. Why wouldn't you?

You are taking into account how good an individual player is not how good the team he plays for is. If for instance Henry Shefflin played alongside junior b hurlers would that mean he is any less talented? No it wouldnt, it would just mean the team he is playing for isnt great as a whole. If Eoin Kelly was from Kilkenny he would have a few Celtic crosses to his name.

Sir Graball

deisedude wrote: »

If Eoin Kelly was from Kilkenny he would have a few Celtic crosses to his name.

He might have a job gettin' his place:D