Tenant looking for reduction in rent

loopyloulou

Need some advise people. My tenants are renting my house for the past 8 months, the 1 year lease is up in December. There are 3 of them, none are working, im signing forms for one of them as he is claiming rent allowance, the other two arent. They pay 800 euro a month for a two bed house. I knew that come December i would have to reduce the rent and i was prepared for that but last night they told me they are looking for a reduction in the next month or else they will have to look elsewhere. They asked for it to be reduced to 600 per month!! Now i seem to remember that the lease says that a review of the rent would be done when the lease is up but i dont want to refuse them a reduction as i dont want them to move out as theyve been good tenants. I said i could go to 700 per month and he tried to haggle to 650. I might go to 680 and tell them they have to sign another 1 year lease from December if i do and that if they move out before that then i will be keeping the deposit. Does that sound fair?? This is my first time being a landlord but i dont really want to lose the tenants as they have been great so far. Any advise appreciated. The house is not in Dublin by the way.

kmick

loopyloulou wrote: »

I might go to 680 and tell them they have to sign another 1 year lease.

Thats all you have to say dont mention the deposit keeping - that is implicit but if you mention it sounds threatening.

niceirishfella

They hold ALL the cards here - and will simply move out at the drop of a hat, deposit or no deposit. Whatever they'd loose in a deposit they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.
Move carefully here OP, or you'll have an empty house on your hands.

petes

niceirishfella wrote: »

They hold ALL the cards here - and will simply move out at the drop of a hat, deposit or no deposit. Whatever they'd loose in a deposit they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.
Move carefully here OP, or you'll have an empty house on your hands.

But if they move out before the one year lease is up the landlord can look for the reminaing rent due.

niceirishfella

Read my post again, Whatever they'd loose in a deposit/rent, they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.

lin lin

my landlord offered to lower the rent from €1,200 to €850 a month when i said i was moving out in august, thats how desperate he was. almost 33% in drop and this was bang on dublin city centre

petes

niceirishfella wrote: »

Read my post again, Whatever they'd loose in a deposit/rent, they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.

I did read your post and you only mentioned deposit. If they moved this month they could be liable for four months rent with no deposit back. I don't know about you but I wouldn't like to owe €3,200 (four months remaining on lease) as well as having to pay rent and deposit in new place.

seamus

niceirishfella wrote: »

Read my post again, Whatever they'd loose in a deposit/rent, they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.

But they'd still have to pay their rent until the end of the year, so they save nothing. The lease is up in December. If they move out at the end of August, then they owe 4 x €800 = €3200 in rent for breaking their lease.

Neither the landlord nor the renters want that hassle. The renters won't get a reference when they move out, and the landlord is unlikely to get all of his money.

OP, this is something going on everywhere by tenants, so I would advise that you're both flexible but firm. A tenant is entitled to a rent review once every 12 months.

Have a look on daft and see what the going rate is in the area (and comparable areas) for a similar property. The number of bedrooms isn't that important, the dwelling type is more important. Offer slightly under the going rate and you're dead right about the new lease - have them sign an additional one year lease (to Dec 2010) and stipulate that there will be no more rent reviews until December 2010 under any circumstances. If it was me, I'd also change the conditions of the rent payment - get it up front if you're not doing so already.

Sesame

I know not fully relevant to the discussion but I'm a tenant and this is the experience I had with a rent reduction request.
With 6 weeks to go to end of a year lease, I checked around to see how much similar houses to ours were going for in the area. We seem to be paying 200 too much per month. I rang landlord,said we'd be interested in getting another year lease, but at the market rate of 200 less.
He said he'd think about it and get back to us.
We've never bothered him, always paid on time, model tenants in my opinion.
Anyway, no word so we rang him again. by then it was a month to the lease end. He ranted on the phone about tenants screwing him. Not the nicest guy. He said no, so we said grand well this is our months notices so, we'll month out at the lease end.
There are lots of houses empty in our estate for 200 less than we paid. He's not going to get that money again. He hasn't had any agents over to look at the house for the last month and we are moving out next week.
It is likely he'll have an empty house for a while. So he has already lost the difference that we were offering to pay him.
To me, its crazy, I can't understand his thinking behind this at all.
But his loss, anyway we found a nicer house for 250 less per month and are delighted.

niceirishfella

Thanks Sesame, we'll at least you tried!
Re; the rest of the rent in the lease, if they leave and they're gone, its not much use to the OP as he's not going to get any remaining rent. He'll have the deposit sure, but as I said before,whatever they'd loose in a deposit, they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.
The tenents hold the cards alright.

petes

niceirishfella wrote: »

Thanks Sesame, we'll at least you tried!
Re; the rest of the rent in the lease, if they leave and they're gone, its not much use to the OP as he's not going to get any remaining rent. He'll have the deposit sure, but as I said before,whatever they'd loose in a deposit, they quickly save elsewhere paying cheaper rent.
The tenents hold the cards alright.

The landlord can sue for the remaining rent due as there was a one year lease signed.

Cookie_Monster

loopyloulou wrote: »

. I might go to 680 and tell them they have to sign another 1 year lease from December if i do and that if they move out before that then i will be keeping the deposit.

If a LL said that to me I'd leave regardless. Why should they be forced into a further years lease just because they are looking for a reduction on this years?
Keeping the deposit though is fair enough.

niceirishfella

Insurgent wrote: »

The landlord can sue for the remaining rent due as there was a one year lease signed.

:pac:lol...........and how's he going to do that?
They'll be gone, no new address for them........and to sue costs money anyway, lots of money so whatever he spends in legal fee's will gobble up what he'd be owed.

Again, the tenents hold all the cards.

petes

niceirishfella wrote: »

:pac:lol...........and how's he going to do that?
They'll be gone, no new address for them........and to sue costs money anyway, lots of money so whatever he spends in legal fee's will gobble up what he'd be owed.

Of course, I forgot. Once you move house no one can find you :rolleyes:


I said they could sue for the remaining rent. I doubt the OP or the tenants want the grief.

niceirishfella

Insurgent wrote: »

Of course, I forgot. Once you move house no one can find you :rolleyes:


I said they could sue for the remaining rent. I doubt the OP or the tenants want the grief.

Is that the best you can offer? If tenants move out and leave no forwarding address, what can the LL do?
Plus there's the probability that the 3 will split up and rent seperately? So, who's he going to chase if all 3 signed a lease? anyways, read my post again, the costs of going after someone would negate any lost rent reclaimed.
It's fraught will messyness!
They hold the cards, we all know it.:rolleyes:

ztoical

niceirishfella wrote: »

:pac:lol...........and how's he going to do that?
They'll be gone, no new address for them........and to sue costs money anyway, lots of money so whatever he spends in legal fee's will gobble up what he'd be owed.

Again, the tenents hold all the cards.

One of them is claiming rent allowance so unless they are planning to go totally underground with no forwarding address and not claiming anything it would be pretty easy to track them down.

niceirishfella

If you are thinking that the social will give the OP(the LL) the tenants (who's claiming)new address, they most certainly won't.

RentDayBlues

I asked for and got 2 rent reductions in the space of 9 months - and we were fully prepared to leave before the lease was up if we didn't get the second reduction. Unfortunately for LL's this is going to be commonplace and if they have good tenants they will hold onto them by giving the reduction.

And I know that everyone will say, what would we do in the reverse if the LL asked for 2 rent increases in that time? Well I'd tell him that as per our lease he cant ask for a rent review more than once every 12 months.

Its a renters market at the mo and we have all had to go through paying exorbitant prices for awful accommodation in the past - its swings and roundabouts.

Xiney

thing is, even if he gets the judgement against them - if they haven't got the money to pay, they can't pay. Woohoo you won, but you're not getting any money!

If they've been good tenants, I would give them the reduction to 680 that you mentioned.



We had a similar situation to Sesame, moved into our place end of Aug 08. Sent a letter to begin rent negotiations 6 or 7 weeks before the end of the lease. Was ignored for 3 weeks, despite countless phone calls to the office: "I haven't had a chance to speak to the landlord yet, when I do I'll let you know". By our calculations we were paying at least 150-200 euro more than we should be.

Then the office went on vacation for more than two weeks (the message on the answering machine told me so). I'd been on the phone to them the Friday prior and they didn't mention anything. This is our only contact for the landlord - what if something had gone wrong in those two weeks? I sent my notice the day I found out they were on vacation.

Found a bigger place down the road for 200 euro less than what we were paying. Signed lease and paid deposit. Got an email a few days later from the office: aparently she'd sent an email the Friday before going on vacation but it hadn't sent. Yeah, right. Oh, and the Landlord was willing to reduce the rent 100 euro. oooh. Well it's too little too late and I told them so.

Brian Griffin

Insurgent wrote: »

I did read your post and you only mentioned deposit. If they moved this month they could be liable for four months rent with no deposit back. I don't know about you but I wouldn't like to owe €3,200 (four months remaining on lease) as well as having to pay rent and deposit in new place.

Little wrong here.

Landlord can sue to get the rent of tenants for the rest of the rent.
He can use the deposit to off set the amount of rent owed but landlord wont get the four months rent and the deposit.

Also its loss of earnings , so if the landlord rents the house out again during these four months, these earnings will be taking into account when the amount is awarded in court.

Brian Griffin

Sesame wrote: »

He ranted on the phone about tenants screwing him.

Haha tenants screwing landlords thats funny.

Landlords in this country have been screwing tenants for a long time. Standered of accommodation is poor and rent is though the roof, compared to europe.

I'm glad to see the rent coming back down and think it will come down more but unfortunately i cant see standered of places getting better. ah well

tbaymusicman

I want to ask my landlord but i keep putting it off!!We are paying 650 for a 2 bed but the neighbours are paying 550 and there is 3 and 4 beds in the area for 650

Cookie_Monster

tbaymusicman wrote: »

I want to ask my landlord but i keep putting it off!!We are paying 650 for a 2 bed but the neighbours are paying 550 and there is 3 and 4 beds in the area for 650

:eek: do it today, and use those examples!

timothy44

loopyloulou wrote: »

Need some advise people. My tenants are renting my house for the past 8 months, the 1 year lease is up in December. There are 3 of them, none are working, im signing forms for one of them as he is claiming rent allowance, the other two arent. They pay 800 euro a month for a two bed house. I knew that come December i would have to reduce the rent and i was prepared for that but last night they told me they are looking for a reduction in the next month or else they will have to look elsewhere. They asked for it to be reduced to 600 per month!! Now i seem to remember that the lease says that a review of the rent would be done when the lease is up but i dont want to refuse them a reduction as i dont want them to move out as theyve been good tenants. I said i could go to 700 per month and he tried to haggle to 650. I might go to 680 and tell them they have to sign another 1 year lease from December if i do and that if they move out before that then i will be keeping the deposit. Does that sound fair?? This is my first time being a landlord but i dont really want to lose the tenants as they have been great so far. Any advise appreciated. The house is not in Dublin by the way.

I have been tenant in this country in the last 7 years and have to tell you: if a tenant find a cheaper flat or house he will move out in 2 days if u are not able to reduce the rent.
Because of the recessions there are lots of houses waiting for tenants and most of the landlords are in trouble now....As far as you can see nothing else just empty houses...
If they've been good tenants, I would give them the reduction to 680 that you mentioned otherwise you can logg in to daft.ie and start to worry....

niceirishfella

Brian Griffin wrote: »

Little wrong here.

Landlord can sue to get the rent of tenants for the rest of the rent.
He can use the deposit to off set the amount of rent owed but landlord wont get the four months rent and the deposit.

Also its loss of earnings , so if the landlord rents the house out again during these four months, these earnings will be taking into account when the amount is awarded in court.

Brian, live in the REAL world will ya!:P
As Xiney right posted earlier,even if he gets the judgement against them - if they haven't got the money to pay, they can't pay. Woohoo LL wins, but they're not getting any money! :rolleyes:

Brian Griffin

Oh i agree,

i'm just saying whats the intitlement of the landlord.

If these guys dont have jobs, no money. you would be better off trying to get blood from a stone.

loopyloulou

Thanks for the replies everyone. I spoke to the letting agent i used initially and asked him what the going rate was around the area. He said he had recently rented out a two bed house for 650 per month but it was a 3rd letting and the house wasnt in great condition. He said 700 per month would be plenty to offer. I might offer this (even though when i said it last night they werent keen) and then maybe drop it to the 680.
I didnt know i would be entitled to the rest of the rent money up to December if they move out but to be honest if theyre not working then i have two hopes of getting any of that so i wont even think about it.
When i give this reduction i dont want them thinking then that they can expect another one in December when the lease is up so ill have to draw up something to say they wont get another rent review until August next year. Does that sound ok?

Cookie_Monster

loopyloulou wrote: »

When i give this reduction i dont want them thinking then that they can expect another one in December when the lease is up so ill have to draw up something to say they wont get another rent review until August next year. Does that sound ok?

No.If the market continues to go south you won't have much of a choice, 600 is better than 0 after all. Do you honestly think they'd sign that?

We got a reduction in july and will be looking for another when lease is up in october. (well i'm outa there but the others will be)

RentDayBlues

When we got our second reduction in June, we signed a new lease from then onwards even though the old one wasnt up. Only thing that we made sure of was a 6 month break clause - give us a way out if rents drop much further this year

loopyloulou

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

No.If the market continues to go south you won't have much of a choice, 600 is better than 0 after all. Do you honestly think they'd sign that?

We got a reduction in july and will be looking for another when lease is up in october. (well i'm outa there but the others will be)

So what was the point in drawing up a 1 year lease which says that the rent will be reviewed after that year is up? Which they all signed and agreed to by the way. I understand that rent has fallen and im willing to drop it aswell but does that signed document not mean anything nowadays?? As people have said already, they hold all the cards.

Cookie_Monster

loopyloulou wrote: »

So what was the point in drawing up a 1 year lease which says that the rent will be reviewed after that year is up? Which they all signed and agreed to by the way. I understand that rent has fallen and im willing to drop it aswell but does that signed document not mean anything nowadays?? As people have said already, they hold all the cards.

That is the problem unfortunitly. They know they can ask you to lower it, they know if you refuse they can leave and it's not cost effective to track them for it, they know they can get (potentially) cheaper or equal elsewhere.

It's not a great situation to be in but like all business at the moment you just have to get though it. Be as flexible as you can afford to be towrds the customers (tennants) you have as you may not get more.

You seem like a decent person from what you've posted here so far, I hope it works out for you.

loopyloulou

Thanks, i really dont want them to leave as theyre good tenants but i dont want to be taken for a ride either. I'm trying to make ends meet too and its not like im making anything off this at all..

niceirishfella

loopyloulou wrote: »

Thanks, i really dont want them to leave as theyre good tenants but i dont want to be taken for a ride either. I'm trying to make ends meet too and its not like im making anything off this at all..

Hi Loopy,

You know, you've got the right mindset and approach, I'd like you as a landlord.
Here's a tip - say to then, can we reach a price on rent that suits you and suits me to nail down for the next calendar year. And to sweeten it, why not offer to freshen up a room or 2 with some paint or the like......or some sort of goodwill gesture. In my experience, these are the kind of things that mean something in these situations.

Hope it works out for them and for you!:)

Good Karma

Reduce the rent.

Forget about deposits and legal position. Leases mean nothing. If they want to move out, they will regardlesss of a signed lease - what are you going to do? Sue them? Yeah it will cost you just as much in legal cost not to mention your time and hassel.

If your paying interest and capital and can't make up the difference, change your mortgage to interest only, it might make it easier.
Worst case scenario, would be that they pay you nothing and it will take you six months to get them out!!

Just do some research into what the current rate is in your area and match it. If your property is a dive you'll have to reduce it further. If your property is luxury, use this as a convincing tool to say same rent, quality property.

hideous ape

At least the OP is thinking about this situation logically.

I have moved house recently and I was shocked at how many landlords and agencies still think its 2005. Some landlords seem to think they are separate from the business world. If any business gets itself into a position where it has to overcharge just to stay afloat, it won't be long going out of business.

My previous apartment was over-valued by about 250e, I payed that rent for the last year and never asked for a reduction. I said I liked the apartment and would be interested in staying if there was a drop in the rent to match other apartments in the same building. She said no way the rent will not drop. So I got my own luxury house for 900e while she wanted 1100e for a pretty nice apartment. There are at least 10 other apartments sitting empty in that building now and all are much cheaper than 1100e. Is she mental!

I fully accept some landlords are in a financial hole but seriously some people just waded into the rental market without proper consideration for if/when things went downhill. Hope the OP strikes a fair deal for both parties involved.

mikemac

Some landlords have no concept of market rates.

In 2008, I offered to renew a lease, I was a tenant for two years.
They put up the price on me.

For a miserable 50 euro per month, they lost a long standing tenant. Sure who knows what the next tenant would be like and if they'll pay rent on time for two years.

Why would you do this as a landlord?
And even if your tenant was paying market rate or slightly lower surely it's in your interest to keep them.
Sure the 50 euro per month rate rise I was charged could be wiped out in a few weeks of vacancy. And since there was an agent involved the landlord definitly had to spend money to get my replacement

Good Karma

As a landlord, I would never put the rent up, no matter how long a tennant has been there. I always buy christmas presents and get anything fixed fast.

One of my tennants rang me recently and asked for a reduction. I always rent my property at a slightly reduced rate anyway which never increases, I had a good tennant and did accordinaly what they requested.

I did think though, that I had never increased the rent in the good times but now I had been asked to reduce it in the bad - not a great deal for me but another sucessful rental - why lose a good tennant over fifty or hundred euro.

Victor

loopyloulou wrote: »

I might go to 680 and tell them they have to sign another 1 year lease from December if i do

Why not ask them for a 1 year lease now - it will keep the place full for next summer.

meglome

I'm looking at the moment and of all the places I've looked at only one guy wouldn't negotiate on the rent and surprise surprise it's been on daft for weeks. They used to get 2k a month for the place now can't get 1,400.

loopyloulou

Update - so i spoke to one of the tenants last night and offered him the 680, he was delighted, so happy days theyre staying . Ill draw up a new agreement when i get back from hols but everyone is happy now. Thanks for all the advise
Lou

niceirishfella

loopyloulou wrote: »

Update - so i spoke to one of the tenants last night and offered him the 680, he was delighted, so happy days theyre staying . Ill draw up a new agreement when i get back from hols but everyone is happy now. Thanks for all the advise
Lou

Great! fair play.:)

RentDayBlues

Great news!

jhegarty

Victor wrote: »

Why not ask them for a 1 year lease now - it will keep the place full for next summer.

What's the point in a new lease when it's clear they don't respect the current one ?

Pixelcraft

mikemac wrote: »

In 2008, I offered to renew a lease, I was a tenant for two years.
They put up the price on me.

For a miserable 50 euro per month, they lost a long standing tenant. Sure who knows what the next tenant would be like and if they'll pay rent on time for two years.

Exact same thing happened with me, and while I would have been happy staying at the current rate at the time, the fact they upped the rent while the market was falling made me look elsewhere. Since then as far as I know it's been unoccupied and is now for sale.