giving gardaí details

Sparkles:)

Just wondering, does one legally have to provide ones name and address if asked by a member of an garda síochána?! and if so under what statute?!


Thanks

Sparklesxxxxxxx

Random

This discussion came up over on the ES form a while back. The garda needs to quote the law or whatever they're requesting your details under.

Otherwise they're just asking as a normal person and you can say no.


(I am not a legal expert though)

Hooch

Sparkles:) wrote: »

Just wondering, does one legally have to provide ones name and address if asked by a member of an garda síochána?! and if so under what statute?!


Thanks

Sparklesxxxxxxx

It would be easier if you give us a situation, and then we can answer.

Sully

To the best of my recollection, tecnically not. It depends entirely on the circumstances you are being asked - for example, if the guard believes you commited an offense and requires your details for that purpose.

If its just random, while its always good to co-operate, you can refuse. But the Guard may then state his reasons, ie what particular law he requires the information etc.

bazjnr

Just in case everyone starts refusing to give details to the Gardai, the most likely situation that you have to is when driving your car.

If stopped driving or stopped at a checkpoint you must give your name and address and even write your signature if demanded by the Garda under the Road Traffic Acts.

As Sully says it depends on the circumstances various Acts give powers to demand name of address

Random

bazjnr wrote: »

Just in case everyone starts refusing to give details to the Gardai, the most likely situation that you have to is when driving your car.

If stopped driving or stopped at a checkpoint you must give your name and address and even write your signature if demanded by the Garda under the Road Traffic Acts.

As Sully says it depends on the circumstances various Acts give powers to demand name of address

In the case of driving your car though the Garda will be quoting the relevant law or whatever he's quoted them under (in this case the RTA) so it's not just the garda "just asking for them".

Our man in Havana

S109 RTA 1961.

padser

Actually a similar question occured to me a few weeks ago - I was walking to a match at croke park and a guard stopped me heading into one of the roads leading to the entrance of CP and asked me to open up my backpack.

Are random searches of bags allowed without any reason? I considered objecting but had a feeling Meath were going to beat Dublin (turns out I was completely wrong) and didn't want to miss it

Sully

padser wrote: »

Are random searches of bags allowed without any reason? I considered objecting but had a feeling Meath were going to beat Dublin (turns out I was completely wrong) and didn't want to miss it

Not sure of the right act, but they have permission to search you if they believe you may be carrying drugs. If you refuse, you can be arrested.

Being searched is common enough these days. Saw a group of teenagers in a car park getting searched last night. Same group there every night, hanging out around their cars. One of two car parks in Waterford where large groups are and frequently get visited by Guards. I assume someone called the Guards last night as they were playing hurling in the middle of a busy road.

JohnK

But surely if they search you for drugs they must actually have reason for it right? Otherwise is it not just carte blanche to search anyone anywhere so long as they say drugs?

Sully

JohnK wrote: »

But surely if they search you for drugs they must actually have reason for it right? Otherwise is it not just carte blanche to search anyone anywhere so long as they say drugs?

They need to have reasonable suspicion. How far that can be extended to, is another question.

EDIT: Its under Section 23 Misuse of Drugs Act 1977/84. I believe they should ask for permission first but if you refuse, you open the door to being arrested (nothing to hide, why refuse?) and searched in the station.

Hooch

JohnK wrote: »

But surely if they search you for drugs they must actually have reason for it right? Otherwise is it not just carte blanche to search anyone anywhere so long as they say drugs?

Sully wrote: »

They need to have reasonable suspicion. How far that can be extended to, is another question.

Read the back of your tickets going to concerts and matches. Most if not all include that, as a term and condition of enter, you may be subject to search. This is want grants the power. You have a right to refuse, and unlike a search under legislation you cannot be forceably searched. But if you refuse......no entry. The power in essence is granted by the ticket holder. Same as if a Garda walks up to someone on the street and asks them would they mind emptying their pockets.........:)

bazjnr

Random wrote: »

In the case of driving your car though the Garda will be quoting the relevant law or whatever he's quoted them under (in this case the RTA) so it's not just the garda "just asking for them".

Hey Random, where did i say "just asking for them"???

Hooch

Sully wrote: »

Not sure of the right act, but they have permission to search you if they believe you may be carrying drugs. If you refuse, you can be arrested.

Section 23 Misuse of Drugs act 1977/84. You can be searched there and then, with reasonable suspision or you can require them to come to the station. If you refuse either, you are then arrested, conveyed to the station.....and searched anyway:D

PCPhoto

Sully wrote: »

They need to have reasonable suspicion. How far that can be extended to, is another question.

which translated means they can do it if they want and if you complain/disagree - then you break other laws which they can then do you for !!!

Dont get me wrong I'm not against the Gardai - and dont want to take this off topic.

My understanding of the situation is that you must give details to a garda on demand - but I've only been asked for my details when I was reporting crimes. (yes....some people still do that)

Trojan911

Sparkles:) wrote: »

Just wondering, does one legally have to provide ones name and address if asked by a member of an garda síochána?! and if so under what statute?!


Thanks

Sparklesxxxxxxx

Your question was touched on in this thread.

bazjnr

padser wrote: »

Actually a similar question occured to me a few weeks ago - I was walking to a match at croke park and a guard stopped me heading into one of the roads leading to the entrance of CP and asked me to open up my backpack.

Are random searches of bags allowed without any reason? I considered objecting but had a feeling Meath were going to beat Dublin (turns out I was completely wrong) and didn't want to miss it

Section 21 and 22 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 gives Gardai powers to put up barriers around an event like a match or concert and Gardai the power to search a person going to an event where a barrier has been erected. It allows Gardai to seize intoxicating liquor or any disposable container or any other article which could be used to cause injury.

This law also allows a Garda to refuse to allow someone to proceed to the event where they refuse to surrender or give up the intoxicating liquor, disposable container or other article concerned.

Name Changed

padser wrote: »

Actually a similar question occured to me a few weeks ago - I was walking to a match at croke park and a guard stopped me heading into one of the roads leading to the entrance of CP and asked me to open up my backpack.

Are random searches of bags allowed without any reason? I considered objecting but had a feeling Meath were going to beat Dublin (turns out I was completely wrong) and didn't want to miss it

There is a provision under the Public Order Act that you can be searched by the Gardaí at an event in case you have intoxicating liquor on you. Normally it is not enforced but it depends on the circumstances.

Name Changed

Sparkles:) wrote: »

Just wondering, does one legally have to provide ones name and address if asked by a member of an garda síochána?! and if so under what statute?!


Thanks

Sparklesxxxxxxx

If you are committing any offence under the Public Order Act, or the Gards suspect that you are or might commit an offence, he/she can demand your name and address.

If you are stopped whilst driving, the Gardaí can demand your name and address if they allege an offence. You don't have to give it if they do not allege an offence. They can simply ask for your driving licence and your name and address should be on that. If you don't have your licence that is an offence and they can demand your name and address!!

Our man in Havana

Actually you are wrong on the driving end.

A member of AGS can under Section 109 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 demand certain information from the driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle. No offence needs to be alleged to compel the driver to give the information.

Name Changed

Bond-007 wrote: »

Actually you are wrong on the driving end.

A member of AGS can under Section 109 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 demand certain information from the driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle. No offence needs to be alleged to compel the driver to give the information.

As far as I am aware, an offence does need to be alleged. That is what the Gardaí are thought and that is also what it specifies in the Road Traffic Act.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0107.html

Our man in Havana

Which totally flies in the face of what it says on pages 131 and 132 of the current rules of the road book. I know it is not the law but it should not be over stating the powers of the Gardaí.

Name Changed

I wouldn't mind the rules of the road though. I'd be taking the Road Traffic Act itself as the bible.

The Gardaí can't demand your name and address unless they allege an offence. They can ask for your name and address though and it'd be easier to give it. Otherwise they can a) ask you for your licence anyway or b) examine your car and any fault would be classed as an offence.

Most people would have no problem giving their names anyway.

Our man in Havana

Indeedy. Easier just to comply.

cushtac

It's Section 107 of the RTA that gives the power to demand driver details.

Our man in Havana

Yes. Section 109 is the power to stop.

Hooch

Name Changed wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the rules of the road though. I'd be taking the Road Traffic Act itself as the bible.

The Gardaí can't demand your name and address unless they allege an offence. They can ask for your name and address though and it'd be easier to give it. Otherwise they can a) ask you for your licence anyway or b) examine your car and any fault would be classed as an offence.

Most people would have no problem giving their names anyway.

When would a Garda ask for you name.....when you do not have your licence on your person as required when driving.....offence not to have your licence.....power to demand name and address.:D

Victor

Sparkles:) wrote: »

Just wondering, does one legally have to provide ones name and address if asked by a member of an garda síochána?! and if so under what statute?!

Offences Against the State Act

padser wrote: »

Actually a similar question occured to me a few weeks ago - I was walking to a match at croke park and a guard stopped me heading into one of the roads leading to the entrance of CP and asked me to open up my backpack.

Are random searches of bags allowed without any reason? I considered objecting but had a feeling Meath were going to beat Dublin (turns out I was completely wrong) and didn't want to miss it

AFAIK there are powers under the public order acts for large events, the same act is used to closed roads in the vicinity, etc.