What do I need to claim back UK VAT on new car?

Apple Orange

I recently bought a brand new car in NI, it's now registered here and I've provided the dealer with a letter from the VRO proving this. He said this is not enough, which contradicts the UK Customs website criteria, whereby I don't even need to show proof I've paid ROI VAT, I just need to declare my intention to do so.

Does anyone have experience of this that can let me know what I should have to produce to the dealer in NI to get the UK VAT back?

I'm still waiting to hear back from him as to what I need :mad:

Dabko

should you not just have had given the NI dealer your irish vat number so he didnt charge you NI vat in the first place? Assuming you are claiming vat back through ROI registered company?

Saab Ed

Are you a VAT registered sole trader or did you buy it through a company?

Apple Orange

Sorry, it was just a personal purchase, I'm not a company or a sole trader!!

He told me I had to pay the UK VAT in order to take it out of the garage, and when I proved I had paid Irish VAT he would refund the UK VAT. That was before I bought it. Now the letter from the VRO proving I've paid doesn't seem to be enough

Saab Ed

Apple Orange wrote: »

Sorry, it was just a personal purchase, I'm not a company or a sole trader!!

Then you're not entiteled to the VAT back. Only if you are VAT registered in some way are you exempt from the VAT. If you were VAT reged then you wouldnt have had to pay the VAT at all at the point of purchase. The salesman was having you on.:( ( unless there's something Im missing here...VAT experts please )

keefg

Saab Ed wrote: »

Then you're not entiteled to the VAT back. Only if you are VAT registered in some way are you exempt from the VAT. If you were VAT reged then you wouldnt have had to pay the VAT at all at the point of purchase. The salesman was having you on.:(

Also, I don't think you can claim VAT back on a car even if it is a company car, I thought it was only commercial vehicles you could claim the VAT back on.

Apple Orange

No I know for a fact I am entitled to get it back, it says so on the UK Revenue & Customs website, and the VRO office here told me I was entitled to claim it back, before I'd even asked about it.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000165#P186_16875

Dabko

bit of a balls i think! Salesman was taking the urine with you. You must pay vat in all european countries, unless you are vat registered, whereby you are exempt from paying. Bummer.

Apple Orange

I know I have to pay VAT in all EU countries! As far as I know, if you buy a car in the UK that is more than 6 months old you pay VAT there and you do not pay VAT here in ROI (you only need to pay VRT here).

If you buy a brand new car in the UK to export to ROI, you're not liable for UK VAT once you declare your intention to export, and you need to declare you will pay VAT in the EU country you're bringing it to. IE I paid VAT in ROI so I'm entitled to claim back the UK VAT

Anan1

Apple Orange wrote: »

I know I have to pay VAT in all EU countries! As far as I know, if you buy a car in the UK that is more than 6 months old you pay VAT there and you do not pay VAT here in ROI (you only need to pay VRT here).

If you buy a brand new car in the UK to export to ROI, you're not liable for UK VAT once you declare your intention to export, and you need to declare you will pay VAT in the EU country you're bringing it to. IE I paid VAT in ROI so I'm entitled to claim back the UK VAT

This is my understanding too, although I think you have to provide proof that ROI VAT was paid in order to reclaim the UK VAT.

Dabko

Apple Orange wrote: »

No I know for a fact I am entitled to get it back, it says so on the UK Revenue & Customs website, and the VRO office here told me I was entitled to claim it back, before I'd even asked about it.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000165#P186_16875

Interesting, never seen that before. It does appear if you are re-selling the car, you can claim the UK vat back alright! My bad (i think?)

Apple Orange

Thanks Anan.

Thats the problem, I have provided the letter the VRO here gave me to claim to prove I have paid Irish VAT but the garage are telling me thats not enough, without telling me what they need. I'm still waiting to hear back from them re: what is enough proof.

Any ideas on what they will need?!

Saab Ed

Anan1 wrote: »

This is my understanding too, although I think you have to provide proof that ROI VAT was paid in order to reclaim the UK VAT.

Just reading the OPs link. It doesnt say anything about reclaiming the VAT , more suggesting an initial exemption on the purchase so long as proof is given that the vehicle is being exported.....Sorry OP I probably shouldnt have commented so quickly but the link seems to suggest you shouldnt have paid the UK VAT at all!!!

Apple Orange

Yeah I don't think I should have had to pay it at all, cos I met all the other criteria there, and really its none of the garages business whether I pay in ROI or not, they should be just ensuring that I've declared to pay it in ROI, then if I don't it's my problem not theirs.

The garage told me I had to pay in UK before they could let me take the car, then they would refund the UK VAT once I proved I had paid ROI VAT. It's not going as smoothly as planned though!!

Saab Ed

Apple Orange wrote: »

Yeah I don't think I should have had to pay it at all, cos I met all the other criteria there, and really its none of the garages business whether I pay in ROI or not, they should be just ensuring that I've declared to pay it in ROI, then if I don't it's my problem not theirs.

The garage told me I had to pay in UK before they could let me take the car, then they would refund the UK VAT once I proved I had paid ROI VAT. It's not going as smoothly as planned though!!

I'll make a call. Maybe someone else will get back with the answer before.

mick.fr

Call the NI customs or revenue
They will probably be in a better position to help you out.

Darsad

If you paid Vat in the UK I am assuming therefore the car was UK registered.If it was your intention to export a new unregistered vehicle you should not have paid UK Vat but would be liable for Irish Vat. If you paid UK vat and the car is imported into Ireland you should get a credit for the UK vat rate paid.

mickdw

Some people are frightening the OP here. He is entitled to buy the car in the uk ex vat or claim it back, whichever way it goes. Everyone is allow to do this.
Firstly, you shouldnt have given them a penny of VAT in Northern Ireland. There is an export form to fill & that should be it. Then just pay them price excluding vat.
Its no big deal that you did pay it. They have to give it back anyway and I think a mention of a phone call to uk revenue/customs might get the wheels in motion for you.
I had dealings with a northern Audi dealer who tried to get me to pay the full amount and then they would give it back once vt paid in ireland. I told him to F off. I think its a tactic by audi uk & all manufacturers to make it harder for people to buy cross border as you need to come up with significant extra cash until the deal is completed.

Saab Ed

mickdw wrote: »

.
Firstly, you shouldnt have given them a penny of VAT in Northern Ireland. There is an export form to fill & that should be it. Then just pay them price excluding vat.
Its no big deal that you did pay it. They have to give it back anyway and I think a mention of a phone call to uk revenue/customs might get the wheels in motion for you.

Thats pretty much what my mate said. The only other thing he said was that sometimes the vendor will just hold on to the VAT and not pay it at all on the basis that you will provide proof that you are going to pay the relevant ROI taxes. Once this proof is provided then the vendor will just refund the difference to you ( atleast he should now anyway unless he's up to something). Again sorry that I shot my gob off without knowing the facts and thanks for teaching me something today

drunkmonkey

I'm a little confused with the company car / soletrader, if your either is it possible to not pay the vat if your in business. i.e can I buy a car in the UK and not pay the vat if I give them my irish vat number?

Dabko

Saab Ed wrote: »

Again sorry that I shot my gob off without knowing the facts and thanks for teaching me something today

+1! I guess you learn something new everyday!

Saab Ed

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm a little confused with the company car / soletrader, if your either is it possible to not pay the vat if your in business. i.e can I buy a car in the UK and not pay the vat if I give them my irish vat number?

No it doesnt matter if you are VAT registered or not , so long as you are buying a new car the VAT only has to be paid in one country i.e the country where its plated...or atleast thats my understanding of it now.

Apple Orange

Thanks everyone for the help!

I think I might have to put on my serious voice and ring them now. I tried not paying the UK VAT but they said they couldn't let it leave the garage without the payment even though I had filled in the export forms and everything.

The whole thing is very annoying!

Apple Orange

Saab Ed wrote: »

No it doesnt matter if you are VAT registered or not , so long as you are buying a new car the VAT only has to be paid in one country i.e the country where its plated...or atleast thats my understanding of it now.

Yes thats correct. If the car was second hand I wouldn't have to pay VAT in ROI at all, just VRT. But since it's new I have to pay ROI VAT and that's why I don't need to pay UK VAT.

Carawaystick

Have you a receipt from the garage clearly showing the vat paid?
Can you ring the revenue to confirm the vat number on the receipt is correct and what the proceedure to reclaim the vat is.

The garageman might be trying to pull a fast one, the vat has to go to the revenue fairly sharpish, so I'd think they would be reclaiming it or providing some official letter showing the vat was paid for a credit here.

Padraig Mor

You should never have paid the UK VAT in the first place - just filled out form VAT 411 which declares your intention to pay VAT in another European country. Whether you do so or not is absolutely no concern of the NI dealer - it's your problem, not his. It would probably been a good idea to check this out in advance BTW!

Apple Orange

Thats exactly what I was saying!! It's none of his business whether I pay or not, it's my problem if I didn't pay and got caught. I filled in Form VAT 411 before I took the car from the garage. Therefore my declaration that I'm exporting from UK means I'm not liable for the UK VAT.

I rang them twice there but no answer. Eeeek!

I thought I had checked it out, but my checking out was by asking the dealer though, ooops!!

drunkmonkey

Saab Ed wrote: »

No it doesnt matter if you are VAT registered or not , so long as you are buying a new car the VAT only has to be paid in one country i.e the country where its plated...or atleast thats my understanding of it now.

So you would have to pay the Irish Vat even if your vat registered and you can't claim it back unless it's a commercial vehicle, correct?

Is there much of a difference between the base price of a car in the UK & Ireland, i.e before vat and vrt

Saab Ed

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So you would have to pay the Irish Vat even if your vat registered and you can't claim it back unless it's a commercial vehicle, correct?

Is there much of a difference between the base price of a car in the UK & Ireland, i.e before vat and vrt

No you dont have to pay the UK VAT at all so long as its new and being exported straight away, any type of vehicle, private or commercial entity purchasing the vehicle. The irish VAT must then be paid and if you are VAT reged it can then be reclaimed again from the Irish revenue. But this has just lead me to another question in my head for the OP. What did you buy from the dealer ( a car I presume ) and why? Pre VRT and VAT most cars are still cheaper here now given the curent exchange rate!

Apple Orange

Its a Civic Hybrid. Cost me £17,000 (incl UK VAT!), cheapest I could get in Republic on a non demo brand new one was €25,500 at the time. And that had no leather seats and cheaper alloy wheels!

So once I get the UK VAT back it will have cost me just over €22k to buy in the North.

Saab Ed

I found this fairly handy
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Honda/Civic/Hybrid-+/200925194373860/advert?channel=CARS

which as you said is a demo but my guess is that any dealer worth their salt and chasing the deal could have matched with a pre reg or something over here. You can be sure there's 1500 quid off that price. Might have saved youself a lot of hassle but anyway...

Apple Orange

Believe it or not I contacted them about that very car! There was no moving them from a bottom price of 23 and a half, since it was already reduced.

Didn't want a demo either, and mine has upgraded alloys, which cost £785 extra!

And I actually haven't had any hassle up til now with the whole thing, hopefully this will sort itself out fairly rapidly too! Once it does I'll be happy enough it worth my while!!

drunkmonkey

Saab Ed wrote: »

The irish VAT must then be paid and if you are VAT reged it can then be reclaimed again from the Irish revenue. !

I must be picking you up wrong, so if i'm vat registered in Ireland I can buy a new car and claim back the vat? I use the car for personal use as well as commerical.

mickdw

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I must be picking you up wrong, so if i'm vat registered in Ireland I can buy a new car and claim back the vat? I use the car for personal use as well as commerical.

It has to be a commercial vehicle As far as I know but yes you can claim the VAT back.
The flip side of this though is when you go on to sell the commercial vehicle, your selling price will be including VAT so you will have to return the VAT part of the price to the revenue. If the vehicle is a few years old, it would be a tiny figure though. This means you cannot simple buy a jeep, claim the VAT back and then sell it off for cash to a private buyer to make a profit from the VAT transaction.