Technological innovation

Tony Almeida

Just wondering if anyone here has been involved in the development of a technological innovative product. Im sitting on an idea which can work in theory... But i have none of the technical knowledge in electrical engineering to develop the product. I would imagine it is very advanced, but as i say, would work quite simply.. taking existing technology and adapting it.

Kind of.

Im not giving much away obviously, but i suppose my general question is if anyone here has any knowledge if a company exists, which would take the technology and develop it for you.

And if so.... Who these people would be.. assuming money was no object.

maxwell smart

I'm sort of in the same boat as you Tony. My product idea is available off the shelf, but would need technical input to get it adjusted to where I want it.
There would be quite a few associated products for the model to function fully so what I am doing is getting details on all the different parts of the package I need.
I will then get together a proposal which I can bring to Enterprise Ireland. They have 3 criteria. 1. Is the product exportable? 2. Is the product capable of providing a certain number of jobs in Ireland (10 is the target) and 3. Can it be profitable.
This is the order they use to evaluate a product.

My plan is to raise some funds myself (through a venture I am launching in October), to fund this. Once I have some seed capital I will then approach EI and look for matching funding. They will put me in touch with companies which can help me out.

Why not look at where the existing technology is in use, then approach a company which is small enough to give you their attention, but that has a reasonable reputation? Then get them to sign a non-disclosure agreement before you discuss anything. This is what I do with anyone I have discussed my project with.

If you want to chat a bit more, PM me.

Tony Almeida

Hey i would PM you, but i hope to rise debate on the topic. I think PM stifles information which could benefit everyone...

Basically, this would be a revolutionary product.. which sounds cliched. Its current form is used by everyone. However i feel everyone would move to the new product.

It is theoretically possible, i have consulted with lecturers in my University about this two years ago, however would involve dealing with all the major computer manufacturers... I gave it away slightly...

It would take alot of revenue to develop. And, it can be implemented in every country, however, Ireland is more able for it than most...

Its not been done, anywhere yet... I've even contacted Eamon Ryan 4 times. This government is spending 400 million on obsolete technology.

I probably gave too much away.. Maybe i should go ahead and try to patent it. Would be a first step. Again however, i dont have the technical knowledge to specify on the patent the technicalities of the product! :mad::mad::mad:

maxwell smart

I'm assuming you got no response from the Minister?

What about your university? Do they have a department which specialises in this area? Could they come on board as a partner?
The business I am launching in October has been a great eye opener. I came up with the idea, but did not have the resources or skills in certain areas to proceed with it, so I brought complete strangers on board. Best decision ever. Even though I have give up 60% of the company to them, it means that at some stage my 40% will be worth something(I hope).

Maybe if you brought someone else on board with you to help you out on an equity holding basis? after all if the idea does not get off the ground then it ain't worth anything.

AndyJB

Hi Tony,
It's certainly a good idea to look for some input from board posters, but I see from some of your various other posts you are/were in college doing postgrads so I'd suggest you speak with some of your college lecturers about the idea.

After speaking with them and you believe it's still feasible you'll need a documented plan before you approach EI or any other potential partner.

Suggested plan headers are.........

1) Your CV and who you are. Details of relevant projects you may have worked on.
2) An overview of your product/service
3) A detailed description of the product/service giving the following...
3a) What it will do?
3b) How it does it? (high level only - put hi-tech info in an appendix at the back)
3c) What it will replace?
3d) Who is it aimed at? Domestic, Business or both?
3e) How will it be developed?
3f) How will it be brought to market?
3g) Costings to develop?
3h) Detailed projections on costs and sales for a 5 - 7 year period.

The above are only suggestions and many freely available business plan writing aids may suggest more or less.

Also put a call into your local EI office. If they're interested they'll assign you a mentor to help you along the way. Remember it's you're idea so you're the best person to write the plan. They can also guide you with patents etc.

Best of luck.
AJB

Tony Almeida

Hey Guys

Thanks for the replies. Lecturers have been a help in so far as they have provided an ear to bounce ideas of. However, they never offered anything further like. If i were to bring the university on board however, i would be afraid of losing all my equity stake in the venture. Not much point in that...

I would like to hold on to at least 50%

Its route to market, and what it will replace is all very obvious.. But to create a business plan, i need to know costs.. And do not have a CLUE about how much R&D will cost.

@Maxwell

Would you mind me asking who you brought on board that has provided you with the most support in your venture.. And if you could tell me a bit about your story?

Pm me if you must...


Also, bear in mind, im doing a masters at the minute... am in a full time job with a technological giant, and run a part time website design company....


And im starting a new masters now in September, to run simultaneously with the other one.. Im 21.

Im bloody clueless, but i think im sitting on a potential goldmine, and if i got the patent granted, it could be a worldwide innovation.....

Help! Should i contact EI?

maxwell smart

Tony

I brought on board a selection of people who can help in a couple of ways. One person will do all the admin donkey work, one is organising the financial setup and the third is looking after the legal aspects.

Of course the best bit is to have people to bounce ideas off who have a vested interest in the company.

The actual project I am going live in October will revolutionise the market sector it is aimed at. Its a totally new concept with a familiar feel to it. It should turn over around 500k in the first 12 months in Ireland. In the UK with the same response rate it will hit 3.4million (nothing like dreaming).
It is exportable to every country in the world and can be run entirely from Ireland, apart from some local marketing efforts.
This venture will fund my actual product development and launch. Its actually something that I encountered around 2 months ago, and could not believe someone had not previously launched the product!! Like all good ideas it simple, of great benifit to vast amounts of people, and easy to use. People wont beileve they could have lived without it before!
And it will appeal to people who are both technofobes and technofans!

You look like you have alot on your plate, I would suggest involving someone else, diluted equity in a product that does launch is better than all of something that never sees the light of day.


I had only suggested a PM if you wanted to discuss something specific about your proposal;)

Patentnav

I think the most important thing you or any inventor can do is get a patent application filed at the irish patent office, if there is a working example. We have a free Invention Disclosure Form on our website which helps you draft a basic application www.patentnav.com (getting revamped soon). Either talk to a patent agent (www.aptma.ie or www.cipa.co.uk) or your enterprise authority asap too. Look at who else patents in this area for possible partners (espacenet).

515

Patentnav wrote: »

I think the most important thing you or any inventor can do is get a patent application filed at the irish patent office

I'd just caution on timing of this. The ideal is to deal in confidentiality agreements and only file the patent the day before you reveal the invention. Otherwise the patents can get very expensive before you can afford to pay them.

To the original question, yes there are companies who can help you develop it, and most of them will charge for that... you might find one that will take a punt on it for some equity... but that's difficult until it's proven.

Patentnav

515 wrote: »

I'd just caution on timing of this. The ideal is to deal in confidentiality agreements and only file the patent the day before you reveal the invention. Otherwise the patents can get very expensive before you can afford to pay them.

Sorry but I totally disagree, the priority date is essential to get asap. I`ve never heard of that sort of strategy. You have 12 months to get things moving from the priority date. Standard practice.

To the original question, yes there are companies who can help you develop it, and most of them will charge for that... you might find one that will take a punt on it for some equity... but that's difficult until it's proven.

Be very careful with so called invention promoters, very few of quality. Get your patent application sorted and filed, then talk with a CDA in place.

515

Patentnav wrote: »

Be very careful with so called invention promoters, very few of quality.

Agreed. But some TOP product design companies here if you have the money and some TOP engineering companies here and UK also.

Patentnav wrote: »

Get your patent application sorted and filed, then talk with a CDA in place.

TOTALLY DISAGREE!

Once you file your patent application you have to start paying renewal fees every year which go up hugely. With my first invention I did this (had to because it was a college project and HAD to be shown at end of year show for me to graduate). I ended up spending a HUGE amount of money on something that never got to market.

Deal with NDA/CDA for as long as possible, just be careful that you trust those you deal with.

Once you have a patent filed, there is no longer any need for CDA/NDA... except for parts of the invention that cannot be protected.

Patentnav, are you in the business of selling patents?

Also, in the interest of disclosure, I am not an invention promoter. I only develop my own inventions.

Patentnav

515 wrote: »

Agreed. But some TOP product design companies here if you have the money and some TOP engineering companies here and UK also.



TOTALLY DISAGREE!

Once you file your patent application you have to start paying renewal fees every year which go up hugely. With my first invention I did this (had to because it was a college project and HAD to be shown at end of year show for me to graduate). I ended up spending a HUGE amount of money on something that never got to market.

Deal with NDA/CDA for as long as possible, just be careful that you trust those you deal with.

Once you have a patent filed, there is no longer any need for CDA/NDA... except for parts of the invention that cannot be protected.

Patentnav, are you in the business of selling patents?

Also, in the interest of disclosure, I am not an invention promoter. I only develop my own inventions.

I`m still trying to get used to the reply mechanism here, but I do no sell patents, unbelievable. I think you have been poorly advised. Stop giving this advice, please. You need to get a patent agent and patent app in asap, you still need a CDA in place or an MDA ideally. I am trying to promote inventors and help them through the patent process, I am also an inventor, 10 years experience in patent business/profession, all on my website. Renewal fees usually start 3 years from filing, come on!

515

Patentnav wrote: »

I`m still trying to get used to the reply mechanism here, but I do no sell patents, unbelievable. I think you have been poorly advised. Stop giving this advice, please. You need to get a patent agent and patent app in asap, you still need a CDA in place or an MDA ideally. I am trying to promote inventors and help them through the patent process, I am also an inventor, 10 years experience in patent business/profession, all on my website. Renewal fees usually start 3 years from filing, come on!

I have had patent agents. I have spent a FORTUNE on patents.

Year 0 - File an Irish short-term patent to set a priority date - If you use a patent agent (which I DO recommend) it could cost a couple of thousand for them to draft and file.

Year 1 - File any further patents you want. If you are talking about a global product your best option is a Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT) Application which effectively files in most industrial countries worldwide. This costs about another 3.5k or did last time I filed it.

Year 2.5 (Depending on how fast the process goes, this can vary) - you now have to file in each country individually. This can cost about 5/600 per country. Europe can still be treated as one country for now. You probably will have to have the patent translated (at a high cost too) for some countries. If you're looking at a global product this can cost tens of thousands.

Year 4 (ish) - You now have to file in each euro country you want - another 5/600 per country... again plus translation fees. Many more thousand.

Then you get into the renewal fee fun... probably 500 or so per country per year (note too that it INCREASES each year)... again this can cost a FORTUNE depending on how much protection you need.

In my opinion you don't want to start this process until your product is fully developed and able to pay for it. I don't believe I have
been given bad advice.

Patentnav

Dear 515, if you could not get a licensee or funding that is not the patent systems fault. It is relatively expensive but if the invention is a commercial flier, then these costs are well worth paying. If it is not commercially attractive then its not a great investment. There are ways to reduce the costs, I managed large portfolios of patents and I know what I am talking about. If you did not have external funding, and did not have any sort of partner, its a pity. I`d love to see your patent family, why don`t you send me your patent numbers? I still advise any inventor to talk to a patent agent and get as early a priority date as possible. Thats my point. If you can`t afford a patent agent, although not really ideal, you could try to file yourself. I have heard your complaints many many times before unfortunately. One of the services we provide is how to reduce the costs.

515

Patentnav wrote: »

Dear 515, if you could not get a licensee or funding that is not the patent systems fault... If you did not have external funding, and did not have any sort of partner, its a pity.

Wow, that is incredibly condescending for someone who is supposed to be helping inventors... and quite rude and unprofessional to suggest I might add. I actually did have significant support for my inventions.

Patentnav wrote: »

I still advise any inventor to talk to a patent agent and get as early a priority date as possible. Thats my point. If you can`t afford a patent agent, although not really ideal, you could try to file yourself. I have heard your complaints many many times before unfortunately. One of the services we provide is how to reduce the costs.

Talk to a patent agent definately. They will advise not to file immediately.

Not only does the clock begin on the expenses, but there is also a maximum of 20 years protection, which also starts as soon as you file.

If you file immediately, then spend 2 years developing it into a commercial product, take another year to get it to market and allow 6 months for it to start to catch on you only have 16 years of sales left. If you file just before it's released you have 19 years. And those last 3 are when it will be most established and profitable.

I have stated my case and anyone reading should talk to a patent agent early and let them tell them not to file too early. It is the biggest rookie mistake made by inventors.

And I do take umbrage at your early swipe at my inventions... l no longer wish to participate in this discussion.

Patentnav

Ah well, when you make your millions, you will not complain about costs. Remember to file your next patent application as early as possible!

CathalMc

Firstly, 515, your advice on not patenting immediately needs to be tempered somewhat. 16 years of sales might be a objectionable prospect for an IBM, but not for a start-up where the patent and IP protection is everything. Nominally as an early stage start-up, you are throwing your idea against every willing and unwilling ear when searching for capital, customers or even employees. A provisional patent is the absolute minimum to success here, practically from day one.

Tony, depending on how complex the technology is, pitching investors with a prototype in hand - or a technical demo - will increases your success probability countless times over. Works-like and looks-like prototypes are enough to win over a early stage crowd, assuming you haven't any easily identified and seemingly unsurmountable technical issues.

As an EE person myself, I suggest cheap information and first stage prototypes are available from competent postgraduate electrical engineers at your local university. This is probably your cheapest option, especially since bargaining is in your favor for labor in this economic climate.

There is also numerous prototyping companies that cater exactly to what you require, of which I personally have no knowledge of in Ireland. This is probably a safer, more streamlined but inevitably more costly approach compared to the postgrad approach.

My own experience is a biomedical device product development abroad (crossing optical, electronics and mechanical fields), where I'm coming from the technical side, and joined forces with other specialized engineers, medical and business folk. I'll echo a previous sentiment, that bringing on people with expertise and experience is essential.

I'd be very interested to see where this all ends up, please do update us.

cerebus

CathalMc wrote: »

Nominally as an early stage start-up, you are throwing your idea against every willing and unwilling ear when searching for capital, customers or even employees. A provisional patent is the absolute minimum to success here, practically from day one.

Just to add my $0.02 here, I'd agree with the comment above on the capital front - if you're trying to raise money from a VC fund one of the first questions they will ask is about the intellectual property associated with your product and how defensible your position is.