My Monday Afternoon Incident

DirkVoodoo

Hey guys,

Just a small disclaimer before I start off on what could potentially be considered a rant. I'm not trying to start a war, a helmet debate, or even a car versus bike debate.

Anyway, I was cycling out of town after having lunch with a friend and as I was coming down Morehampton road, just past Wellington place I had a slight incident. To anyone who doesn't know the road, there are little bays for cars to park just off the road and inside the cycle lane. I reckon I was going ~25 km/hr from the gradient and my cadence, so I wasn't rocketing. Anyway, a car parked in one of the bays suddenly began to pull out (it should be noted he did indicate, after he began performing the maneuvre). I braked to avoid him and once he was in the bus lane and I was alongside, I looked at him and flapped my hands about. He started to beep his horn. I admit I gave him the finger at this point. He started beeping again.

A bus was ahead of me as we continued down Morehampton road, so the guy rolled down his window and the two of us began exchanging pleasantries. I couldn't really hear what he was saying as the sound of the bus was drowning him out, I don't think I was making a compelling argument myself, lots of swearing. Anyway, as he became more flustered and I was still pinned by the bus in front, he decides to swerve his car towards me. I was really shocked and lost control of my bike slightly, wobling off towards the kerb before getting really ticked off and screaming some more.

The pedestrian light just before Donnybrook rd was read, so I coud now hear him as we continued to argue. He was accusing me of being a no good courier, speeding around and acting like I owned the road and he was going to report me to the Gardai. Not if I get there first I thought.

I went into Donnybrook Garda station and the officer there said he could only issue a caution. What happened next was what I have an issue with. The man entered as I was giving details and was about to go off again when the Garda said “calm down, I want to have a word with you.” He told me to wait outside while he spoke to him (the guy was saying he was now in a rush and had to pay for parking, the Garda was having none of it and told him to step inside). After a while he came out and asked me into the room. We sat down and he said that the guy was “ignorant, and that's putting it politely” and he admitted to pulling out dangerously. He said that as far as the swerving went (which I pointed out to him I considered borderline assault) it was my word against his. Anyway, he told me, and I'm quoting him almost directly here “if I could give you some advice, that road out there is absolutely lethal and you should either cycle on the footpath or take a different route”. I was nearly gawking at this point and told him that I cycle up and down it all the time without too much fuss but he wasn't interested. Now, to me this was almost saying that the driver was not at fault and it is down to poor planning that these incidents occur. While that may be true in some cases of cycle lane, there is little justification for it here. He didn't look, and then tried to run me off the road. The Garda, once more, was not interested. He said if I went to court with this, the judge would prosecute us both. I was actually getting pretty upset at this point, I mean what kind of protection am I being offered in these circumstances. Don't go out and cycle seemed to be the answer.

He decided that I was probably telling the truth, but the best solution at this point was for us both to shake hands and forget about it. When we did, the man made some comment about “we all make mistakes” and the Garda warned him again “I've already spoken to you!”.

Anyway, like I say, I'm not looking for “W00t! Bike rule, cars suck” or “were you wearing a helmet”, really just opinions on whether it is worth pursuing. The Garda gave me his name and number in case I changed my mind, but once again warned me off going to court. I would particularly like to hear the opinions of BrayBlue and Keano007 on the matter, as the Garda's advice had me baffled and upset by the end of it.

tomasrojo

I'm very sorry to hear it.

I personally had a horrible incident when I was run off the road after giving a driver the finger. I fight the urge very hard. You just never know how disproportionate the other person's response is going to be. It also puts you somewhat in the wrong, legally, I have the impression, as it's provocation.

I had another incident once where I went to the Gardai: dangerous driving, followed up by abusive, intimidating behaviour). They similarly advised me against going to court , as it was my word against his. They did put the driver on the caution register though, for verbally abusing me (there were witnesses to that bit).

zzzzzzzz

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just a small disclaimer before I start off on what could potentially be considered a rant. I'm not trying to start a war, a helmet debate, or even a car versus bike debate.

Anyway, I was cycling out of town after having lunch with a friend and as I was coming down Morehampton road, just past Wellington place I had a slight incident. To anyone who doesn't know the road, there are little bays for cars to park just off the road and inside the cycle lane. I reckon I was going ~25 km/hr from the gradient and my cadence, so I wasn't rocketing. Anyway, a car parked in one of the bays suddenly began to pull out (it should be noted he did indicate, after he began performing the maneuvre). I braked to avoid him and once he was in the bus lane and I was alongside, I looked at him and flapped my hands about. He started to beep his horn. I admit I gave him the finger at this point. He started beeping again.

A bus was ahead of me as we continued down Morehampton road, so the guy rolled down his window and the two of us began exchanging pleasantries. I couldn't really hear what he was saying as the sound of the bus was drowning him out, I don't think I was making a compelling argument myself, lots of swearing. Anyway, as he became more flustered and I was still pinned by the bus in front, he decides to swerve his car towards me. I was really shocked and lost control of my bike slightly, wobling off towards the kerb before getting really ticked off and screaming some more.

The pedestrian light just before Donnybrook rd was read, so I coud now hear him as we continued to argue. He was accusing me of being a no good courier, speeding around and acting like I owned the road and he was going to report me to the Gardai. Not if I get there first I thought.

I went into Donnybrook Garda station and the officer there said he could only issue a caution. What happened next was what I have an issue with. The man entered as I was giving details and was about to go off again when the Garda said “calm down, I want to have a word with you.” He told me to wait outside while he spoke to him (the guy was saying he was now in a rush and had to pay for parking, the Garda was having none of it and told him to step inside). After a while he came out and asked me into the room. We sat down and he said that the guy was “ignorant, and that's putting it politely” and he admitted to pulling out dangerously. He said that as far as the swerving went (which I pointed out to him I considered borderline assault) it was my word against his. Anyway, he told me, and I'm quoting him almost directly here “if I could give you some advice, that road out there is absolutely lethal and you should either cycle on the footpath or take a different route”. I was nearly gawking at this point and told him that I cycle up and down it all the time without too much fuss but he wasn't interested. Now, to me this was almost saying that the driver was not at fault and it is down to poor planning that these incidents occur. While that may be true in some cases of cycle lane, there is little justification for it here. He didn't look, and then tried to run me off the road. The Garda, once more, was not interested. He said if I went to court with this, the judge would prosecute us both. I was actually getting pretty upset at this point, I mean what kind of protection am I being offered in these circumstances. Don't go out and cycle seemed to be the answer.

He decided that I was probably telling the truth, but the best solution at this point was for us both to shake hands and forget about it. When we did, the man made some comment about “we all make mistakes” and the Garda warned him again “I've already spoken to you!”.

Anyway, like I say, I'm not looking for “W00t! Bike rule, cars suck” or “were you wearing a helmet”, really just opinions on whether it is worth pursuing. The Garda gave me his name and number in case I changed my mind, but once again warned me off going to court. I would particularly like to hear the opinions of BrayBlue and Keano007 on the matter, as the Garda's advice had me baffled and upset by the end of it.

Glad you're ok dirk.

Confused though as to what you'd be charged with if it went to court?? As far as I can make out all you did was "exchange pleasantries" with the driver.

ROK ON

@ Dirk - sorry to hear that man. Keep the chin up and stay safe.


Had a similar experience back in Feb - after an investigation the Gardai in Pearse St said it was my word versus the drivers, and because of that they would not be proceeding. I asked them would they proceed if I had been injured (I was thrown over the bonnet of a car that undertook me, while driving on a footpath). Gardai would not answer.
IMO, traffic crime in Ireland is not punished (not matter what you are driving/cycling). Gardai are interested in speed cameras, and insurance checking/NCT checking. Anything else is just too difficult for them to be bothered with.

tunney

I was creamed by a bus and was told by the police that there was nothing that could be done. Agree about vehicle related crimes.

ednwireland

glad your ok

god i'm glad i dont have to commute round a city anymore

kenmc

Wow, lucky escape there. good to hear you're alive to tell the tale.
I wonder if you had the incident on a video camera would it be taken more seriously, would it be more than 'his word vs yours'? Over to BrayBlue and Keano007 again

Lumen

I'd take the advice of the rozzer and leave it. You could always call him or drop in again for advice now that the adrenalin has ebbed and you''re feeling calmer.

There was no actual harm done. The driver obviously got a earful, and is now more likely to check mirrors and indicate, which is a good thing.

Personally, I'd have dragged him out of his car, tied him up and gagged him, put him in his own boot, driven to a bike shop, bought tools to remove my crankset, driven to McQuillan Tools, bought a shovel, driven to Sally Gap, got him to dig his own grave while I removed my crankset, beaten him to death with the crankset, buried him in a shallow grave for jwshooter to find once deer season starts, then reattached the crankset, burned out the car and cycled home.

Still, you'll know for next time.

ROK ON

tunney wrote: »

I was creamed by a bus and was told by the police that there was nothing that could be done. Agree about vehicle related crimes.

I meant to post about that - I mean, you got the reg, you were injured (pretty seriously), what was it that they couldn't do.

Have you taken the issue up with Bus Eireann - you could take a civil case to recoup medical costs/bike repair etc. Sorry for going tangentally, but I was hit by a car and was lucky to walk away unharmed. You ended up in hospital!!!!

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

I'd take the advice of the rozzer and leave it. You could always call him or drop in again for advice now that the adrenalin has ebbed and you''re feeling calmer.

There was no actual harm done. The driver obviously got a earful, and is now more likely to check mirrors and indicate, which is a good thing.

Personally, I'd have dragged him out of his car, tied him up and gagged him, put him in his own boot, driven to a bike shop, bought tools to remove my crankset, driven to McQuillan Tools, bought a shovel, driven to Sally Gap, got him to dig his own grave while I removed my crankset, beaten him to death with the crankset, buried him in a shallow grave for jwshooter to find once deer season starts, then reattached the crankset, burned out the car and cycled home.

Still, you'll know for next time.

I always took you for a placid, genteel sort of chap. I'll know better than to cross you. It's the quiet ones you have to be wary of.

CheGuedara

Sorry to hear about the incident Dirk - no one needs that, and the attitude from the authorities seems to be a uniform standard (from what I've heard both on boards and from incidents back home).

I'd have to agree with ROK ON at this point; if you're not doing over the limit, past the date on the NCT/tax/insurance or using the 'wrong type' of diesel it seems like you're by and large not worth the time.

Still you've 'Cart Bleu' to cycle on the footpad now and the officers number to back it up!

tunney wrote: »

I was creamed by a bus and was told by the police that there was nothing that could be done.

I can't believe that. that's actually shocking - pi$$ed of for you big time:mad:

CheGuedara

Lumen wrote: »

Personally, I'd have dragged him out of his car, tied him up and gagged him, put him in his own boot, driven to a bike shop, bought tools to remove my crankset, driven to McQuillan Tools, bought a shovel, driven to Sally Gap, got him to dig his own grave while I removed my crankset, beaten him to death with the crankset, buried him in a shallow grave for jwshooter to find once deer season starts, then reattached the crankset, burned out the car and cycled home.

Still, you'll know for next time.

ROK ON wrote: »

I always took you for a placid, genteel sort of chap. I'll know better than to cross you. It's the quiet ones you have to be wary of.

LMAO !!

Almost sounds too well planned out to be off the cuff doesn't it?

DirkVoodoo

Thanks for the replies and the advice guys. I guess I will leave it so, I don't think he took the Garda's advice to heart though, he was an older guy (angry looking too) and I'm pretty sure he is set in his ways. Anyway, I'm not injured but it was just the attitude of "that road is lethal (it's not if people drive responsibly, its pretty straight and a main traffic artery) and you should take a different route (Baggot street, the coast road, ranelagh, etc. are equally lethal if people drive like that).

Hopefully with more people cycling we will see some more protection for cyclists. If motorists think that they can swerve their car at cyclists to threaten them and can get away with it, things need to change.

kenmc

I ain't never going over the gap in a group with Lumen again. Specially if he has a crank remover and a shovel strapped to the crossbar....

Jawgap

Sounds like a frightening experience.

If it had been me I'm not sure I would've stopped at giving him the finger - cleats on the paintwork and a quick sprint off down some side road would probably have been my preferred conclusion.

I think the copper is right - difficult to prove to the satisfaction of a court who is legally wrong, even though he (the Guard) seems to be fairly well on your side - I'd say he was an older Guard?

There's also the possibility that yer man parks around there regularly - maybe keep an eye out for his car and............

ROK ON

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Anyway, I'm not injured but it was just the attitude of "that road is lethal (it's not if people drive responsibly, its pretty straight and a main traffic artery) and you should take a different route (Baggot street, the coast road, ranelagh, etc. are equally lethal if people drive like that).

Hopefully with more people cycling we will see some more protection for cyclists. If motorists think that they can swerve their car at cyclists to threaten them and can get away with it, things need to change.

That is what is not understood by most people. Roads are rarely lethal, it behaviour of the people using them, that determins their relatively safety.

kenmc

It might be worth a letter to his station superindentent though, expressing your dissatisfaction with how he dealt with it, and highlight how he told you to break the law by cycling on the path, and did nothing whatsoever about the dickhead trying to kill you. Worth a go, nothing to lose.

Lumen

I think I maybe just have a repressed desire to beat someone to death with a crankset.

Anyway, the other question is: what's the best way to "win" a post-incident in/on-vehicle altercation?

I've tried having a car-car shouting match, and it tends to be frustrated by inability to hear at the same time as you're shouting.

I think possibly the route to victory involves making your opponent so angry that they crash their car through a shop window. Various flavours of gurning and maybe a bit of "belm", "duh" type aggravators might do the trick, but to really get under the skin you maybe need to employ Brüno style come-ons.

kenmc

Jawgap wrote: »

There's also the possibility that yer man parks around there regularly - maybe keep an eye out for his car and............

I predict TA jumping up and down on his conclusions mat very soon.

DirkVoodoo

Jawgap wrote: »

seems to be fairly well on your side - I'd say he was an older Guard?

Nope, reckon he was mid to late twenties (or else just a very young looking older garda).

He was very nice about the whole thing and yep, he didn't like yer man at all, but he didn't seem to be too clued up on cycling by the cycling on the footpath advice, to me that is far more dangerous than holding your position in the cycle lane. Unfortunately it's a just a case of people never looking before pulling out.

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

I think I maybe just have a repressed desire to beat someone to death with a crankset.

Anyway, the other question is: what's the best way to "win" a post-incident in/on-vehicle altercation?

I've tried having a car-car shouting match, and it tends to be frustrated by inability to hear at the same time as you're shouting.

I think possibly the route to victory involves making your opponent so angry that they crash their car through a shop window. Various flavours of gurning and maybe a bit of "belm", "duh" type aggravators might do the trick, but to really get under the skin you maybe need to employ Brüno style come-ons.

I've tried the shouting, the hand gestures suggestive of self-abuse and using one or two fingers - I've even amassed a modest collection of wing mirrors (2), but my preferred response could best be summed up as follows:-



I find it winds them up more than any insult!!!

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

He was very nice about the whole thing and yep, he didn't like yer man at all, but he didn't seem to be too clued up on cycling by the cycling on the footpath advice, to me that is far more dangerous than holding your position in the cycle lane.

Write him a nice letter explaining the issues. He'll could be doing that job until he retires in 30 years time, and will no doubt deal with a few more cyclist/motorist incidents. It might at least be cathartic.

blorg

It is a difficult one, at the end of the day it IS your word against his. I think the garda in question was obviously on your side but what can he do? If there were independent witnesses I am pretty sure it would have a different outcome, and they would have pursued it further. I think a caution is more than reasonable in the circumstances.

To be honest the Garda is right that you should not cycle on that cycle lane, I would not cycle on any lane that puts me in the "door zone" of parked cars. I would be further out on the road though, not the footpath. Again the garda is applying common sense here and I presume is being no hypocrite, I am sure he has never collared a cyclist for not using a dangerous cycle lane.

Jawgap

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Nope, reckon he was mid to late twenties (or else just a very young looking older garda).

He was very nice about the whole thing and yep, he didn't like yer man at all, but he didn't seem to be too clued up on cycling by the cycling on the footpath advice, to me that is far more dangerous than holding your position in the cycle lane. Unfortunately it's a just a case of people never looking before pulling out.

Ring Traffic in the Castle and see if they can offer any more help, if you're inclined to pursue it.

Complaining to the Super or anywhere else I don't think will change anything.

zzzzzzzz

If it was me I'd pursue it as far as I could - but then, I'm a stubborn b*stard.

It'd be different if yer man had been apologetic at the end of it all, but to be honest, from the sounds like he'd do it all over again in a heartbeat. Even after the garda talking to him he still tried to make out that you were somehow in the wrong AFTER admitting he pulled out dangerously/without looking.

Maybe that's just me though.

Dr_Colossus

A question, what would happen in the above shocking incident when you were cycling along and the car swerved trying to run you off the road which could have litterally killed you, if you were carrying a U Lock and proceeded to break the drivers passager door window as a form of retubition? I presume you'd be done for vandalism even though you're only trying to protect yourself since a body has no defense against a heavy motorised vehicle.

A similar sort of incident happened with me and a bus coming from Fairview in towards Connelly station about 6 months ago. I was passing the bus on the outside as he was stopped at a bus stop, he then put on the indicator and pulled out immediately even though I was at his window at this stage and forced me into the next lane of traffic. As I preceeded to overtake him and go back into my cycle lane he pulled up beside me and opened the door shouting all sorts of profanities. I shouted back saying putting on an indicator didn't give him to right to pull out into oncoming traffic and he should watch where's he's going. He completely lost the rag and proceeded to call me a boll_x cyclists before swerving the bus into the cycling lane (broken white line) and nearly running me off the road into the high kerb. I was really shocked and it took all my control to stay on the bike. He slowed down again further up, still with the door open and I just shouted I'd report his dangerous driving if he wasn't unemployed before then.

Obviously reporting such dangerous driving and lunatic drivers doesn't make any difference with the authorities and is alot of red tape and agro for both you and the guards. Still if I was carrying a U lock or other such implement at the time I'd have found it difficult to resist the urge of not trying to break a wing mirror or other sort of damage he'd have to explain. Obviously wouldn't concern the bus driver since it's the tax payer that would foot the bill but it would yield some sort of satisfaction.

Not trying to advocate violent behaviour either, have never acted out of line on the road but some drivers and thick ignorant and dangerous and when the law doesn't serve us more vulnerable cyclist then what's to be done?

Jawgap

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

A question, what would happen in the above shocking incident when you were cycling along and the car swerved trying to run you off the road which could have litterally killed you, if you were carrying a U Lock and proceeded to break the drivers passager door window as a form of retubition? I presume you'd be done for vandalism even though you're only trying to protect yourself since a body has no defense against a heavy motorised vehicle.

A similar sort of incident happened with me and a bus coming from Fairview in towards Connelly station about 6 months ago. I was passing the bus on the outside as he was stopped at a bus stop, he then put on the indicator and pulled out immediately even though I was at his window at this stage and forced me into the next lane of traffic. As I preceeded to overtake him and go back into my cycle lane he pulled up beside me and opened the door shouting all sorts of profanities. I shouted back saying putting on an indicator didn't give him to right to pull out into oncoming traffic and he should watch where's he's going. He completely lost the rag and proceeded to call me a boll_x cyclists before swerving the bus into the cycling lane (broken white line) and nearly running me off the road into the high kerb. I was really shocked and it took all my control to stay on the bike. He slowed down again further up, still with the door open and I just shouted I'd report his dangerous driving if he wasn't unemployed before then.

Obviously reporting such dangerous driving and lunatic drivers doesn't make any difference with the authorities and is alot of red tape and agro for both you and the guards. Still if I was carrying a U lock or other such implement at the time I'd have found it difficult to resist the urge of not trying to break a wing mirror or other sort of damage he'd have to explain. Obviously wouldn't concern the bus driver since it's the tax payer that would foot the bill but it would yield some sort of satisfaction.

Not trying to advocate violent behaviour either, have never acted out of line on the road but some drivers and thick ignorant and dangerous and when the law doesn't serve us more vulnerable cyclist then what's to be done?

Should've reported it to Dublin Bus at least - all the buses have CCTV - they'd have followed that one up no problem!

Lumen

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

A question, what would happen in the above shocking incident when you were cycling along and the car swerved trying to run you off the road which could have litterally killed you, if you were carrying a U Lock and proceeded to break the drivers passager door window as a form of retribution? I presume you'd be done for vandalism even though you're only trying to protect yourself since a body has no defense against a heavy motorised vehicle.

Retribution is not defensive.

markpb

ROK ON wrote: »

IMO, traffic crime in Ireland is not punished (not matter what you are driving/cycling). Gardai are interested in speed cameras, and insurance checking/NCT checking. Anything else is just too difficult for them to be bothered with.

I totally agree with your first point but I feel the Gardai don't bother with "minor" offences because they're hard to prove. It takes a lot of time and effort for a Garda to bring someone to court and it's all wasted if the judge feels the case is frivolous or lacks evidence.

ROK ON

markpb wrote: »

I totally agree with your first point but I feel the Gardai don't bother with "minor" offences because they're hard to prove. It takes a lot of time and effort for a Garda to bring someone to court and it's all wasted if the judge feels the case is frivolous or lacks evidence.

An offense is only "minor" if the result does not then result in injury - this is not the point at all.
The law should exist to punish those who break the law (intent), and to protect society. If I plan on murdering/raping/driving you off the road, but fail, it is my intent that needs to be investigated and punished if found guilty, not whether or not I actually succeed in my lawbreaking endevours.

blorg

I can guarantee from personal experience they pursue these things if there are independent witnesses willing to make a statement. If there are no such witnesses, it is difficult to see what they can do.

Stark

"Pfft, attempted murder. They don't give out Nobel prizes for attempted physics."

(Sideshow Bob)

TinyExplosions

I'd be inclined to write a letter the Donnybrook Superintendant, along with one to the Garda Ombudsman if I was in that situation. Also, I would take it all the way to court, just to inconvienience the fecker in the car.

Having said that, if it was me, once I saw him stopped at the red light, I would have either ripped his door open, or dived in the window and given him a severe hiding. Sometimes (generally if my life is endangered) I can be a bit ott.

Glad you're ok though

seamus

Sounds like a pretty ****ty experience, glad nothing bad came out of it.

The Guard is right in terms of going to court. On the stand, the driver will testify that you were cycling at speed and swerving all over the road, that indicated in plenty of time but you "came out of nowhere", f'ing and blinding at him and kicking the side of his car. You'll agree with the judge that some harsh words were exchanged. The Garda will relay his side of the story about the driver being an ignorant prick, and the judge will decide that you were probably in the right, but you'll be fined for your conduct and the driver will probably be fined too.

Net result: Driver is still a pissed-off moron and you're lighter in the pockets (and patience).

ROK ON

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Having said that, if it was me, once I saw him stopped at the red light, I would have either ripped his door open, or dived in the window and given him a severe hiding. Sometimes (generally if my life is endangered) I can be a bit ott.

Glad you're ok though

Thats perfectly reasonable behaviour I think.
Hijacking a car, kidnapping a bloke, having him dig his grave, and beating him with a crankset is OTT.

blorg

ROK ON wrote: »

Thats perfectly reasonable behaviour I think.
Hijacking a car, kidnapping a bloke, having him dig his grave, and beating him with a crankset is OTT.

I don't know, was it a carbon crankset or an aluminium crankset?

stevie_b

if a car swerved towards me purposely i think i'd lose the plot. i can only imagine how good a well aimed kick to the wing mirror would feel, then followed by a quick bunnyhop onto the pavement and away into the distance while the car gets stuck behind granny gumdrops in the micra....... jawgap's 'smile and wave' strategy would be best implemented at this point

Bunnyhopper

Glad to hear you're ok, Dirk. Sounds like a frightening and very frustrating encounter. Even if his advice wasn't very satisfactory, the guard does seem to have been more sympathetic to you than he was to the driver.

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

If motorists think that they can swerve their car at cyclists to threaten them and can get away with it...

Trouble is, it seems as if they can do just that - unless you happen to be fitted with 360-degree on-bike HD-CCTV or have a professional witness following you at all times.

Maybe you could just have Lumen following you at all times, which brings me to...

Lumen wrote: »

Personally, I'd have dragged him out of his car, tied him up and gagged him, put him in his own boot, driven to a bike shop, bought tools to remove my crankset, driven to McQuillan Tools, bought a shovel, driven to Sally Gap, got him to dig his own grave while I removed my crankset, beaten him to death with the crankset, buried him in a shallow grave for jwshooter to find once deer season starts, then reattached the crankset, burned out the car and cycled home.

Ah, I wondered where all those burnt patches of grass dotted around the Sally Gap came from - that explains it

crazydingo

Jawgap wrote: »

If it had been me I'm not sure I would've stopped at giving him the finger - cleats on the paintwork and a quick sprint off down some side road would probably have been my preferred conclusion.

Make sure that's a very fast sprint! I didn't sprint fast enough after an incident with a driver and he grabbed my bag so I had to ditch the bike and a scrap in the middle of the road ensued. Luckily when his mate got out of the car all he wanted to do was get the driver away from me after I had him pinned, otherwise I wouldn't have fancied my chances against another joker as well :pac:

CheGuedara

Life's Ironic side at work -- New Bikeradar feature entitled: 'Health: Cycle away from stress'

If only they knew the truth...

(getting wiped out by busses, the exchanging of 'pleasantries' with motoring morons, TTing to Garda Stations, beating an offending idiot with a 172.5mm, 39/53 crank arm (question - R or L arm?) - I feel less stressed thinking about it...

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

I don't know, was it a carbon crankset or an aluminium crankset?

"Judge, in fairness I'd bought an SRAM Force crankset, and I just wanted to turn it Red".

Coat! Taxi!

Tayto2000

Sorry to hear you had this happen to you, glad to hear you got through it unhurt.

Tbh, I'd have sympathy for the Garda in that situation, two people come in both pointing the finger at the other with no witnesses. Very hard to prove intent on the swerving thing, especially if there's no actual harm done.

From the sounds of it, he was on your side, and since there were no injuries it's just not going to be taken as seriously as if he'd knocked you off. Perhaps he pointed out to the driver that he would have been 100% at fault if he'd knocked you off and injured you?

...but wtf was that about cycling on the footpath? That's really bizarre advice from the Gardai...

bbosco

stevie_b wrote: »

if a car swerved towards me purposely i think i'd lose the plot. i can only imagine how good a well aimed kick to the wing mirror would feel, then followed by a quick bunnyhop onto the pavement and away into the distance while the car gets stuck behind granny gumdrops in the micra....... jawgap's 'smile and wave' strategy would be best implemented at this point

I've had a van swerve at me simply for having the cheek hold my lane position on a roundabout and not let him attempt the ridiculously dangerous overtaking manouevre he had in mind. He forced me off the road into some road works where I came to an abrupt halt on my arse in a pile of dug up road. It's damn scary and I completely understand the OP's anger and frustration at both the incident and the subsequent the Garda handling of the situation. It just strengthens the feeling that the roads are the Wild West as far as cyclists are concerned. In this case it's just good that the cyclist was unhurt.
On the 'smile and wave' approach I have a slight variant which is the deadpan look along with slow, deliberate tapping of side of head with index finger. Results in fast dissolve into apoplectic rage in 80% of cases.

Gavin

Sorry to hear about that Dirk, even small confrontations can be extremely disturbing when you're not used to them (which I am not). I find I tend to replay them in my mind constantly, making myself angrier, they are hard to forget about.

The Guard sounded pretty reasonable, apart from his cycling comments. A letter probably isn't a bad idea, perhaps thanking him and generally explaining cycling on the footpath is illegal, cycling on the main road is safe and completely within a cyclists rights. If it's couched in reasonable terms it might make him think about the situation a bit more the next time he encounters a cyclist.

Well done on going into the station at all, it wasn't a bad result, the guy was cautioned and hopefully the incident is on record should be ever do the same again. As Blorg, Seamus and others have said, with no witnesses there is nothing the Gardai can do.

I don't agree with any of the kicking wing mirrors, smashing crap with ulocks in revenge or any of that bull****. We're not bleedin animals (apart from Lumen). Get a licence plate number and report it

BostonB

There might be a business along there with a CCTV that covers the road at the incident. They'll most likely delete it every week. So check it now not later. That would go a long way.

copacetic

blorg wrote: »

I don't know, was it a carbon crankset or an aluminium crankset?

this is key, it could take you hours to lightly tap someone to death with a carbon crankset, trying not to weaken it for the ride home.


I wonder what pedals would be best, spds would be rough enough, my speedplays wouldn't be great.

blorg

copacetic wrote: »

I wonder what pedals would be best, spds would be rough enough, my speedplays wouldn't be great.

You want downhill pedals for that job I reckon, something along these lines:

SerialComplaint

Two suggestions;

1) Tell the guard that you want to make a formal statement. This will take 15-45 minutes. There are two benefits arising from this for you. First, he will have to get the driver to come in and make a statement giving his side of the story, so you will cost the guy an hour or two out of his busy day. Secondly, it means that the details of the incident go first to the inspector, who makes a decision as to whether to prosecute or not. Most court cases are 'one person's word against another', so this shouldn't hold you back from pushing forward.

2) Check if they have any cycling gardai in Donnybrook, have a friendly word, and get them to explain to your guard that cycling on the pavement is not a great idea.

brayblue24

seamus wrote: »

Sounds like a pretty ****ty experience, glad nothing bad came out of it.

The Guard is right in terms of going to court. On the stand, the driver will testify that you were cycling at speed and swerving all over the road, that indicated in plenty of time but you "came out of nowhere", f'ing and blinding at him and kicking the side of his car. You'll agree with the judge that some harsh words were exchanged. The Garda will relay his side of the story about the driver being an ignorant prick, and the judge will decide that you were probably in the right, but you'll be fined for your conduct and the driver will probably be fined too.

Net result: Driver is still a pissed-off moron and you're lighter in the pockets (and patience).

Dirk, I was going to post exactly what Seamus says. As a guard (and a cyclist I might add) he's absolutely correct. You can make a statement if you wish but when your man comes to make one he won't tell the truth and by then end of it he'll probably be claiming you pointed an AK47 at him! It's not yours or the garda's fault in this instance-the law's an ass! In the absence of witnesses you are going nowhere unfortunately.

I had a strikingly similar incident myself, won't bore you with the details as I posted it somewhere else here before but other guy had a rant, langauge, threats etc. I made absolutely no response but like you no witnesses either. I reported him and here's where (I think) it gets interesting. When the guards called to his house he lost the head completely-mostly about the neighbour's seeing them there etc. At least his attitude to them vindicated any doubt there may have been about my behaviour. He insisted the all correspondence went through his solicitor so the whole thing dragged out-all the time costing him lolly with his solicitor. Like your incident, I knew it was going nowhere and eventually he was cautioned. He didn't go to court (where nothing would have happened to him anyway) but he was many €€€€€s down. To me-result because he was a pr**k.

Your man was not driving a VW was he?

DirkVoodoo

brayblue24 wrote: »

Your man was not driving a VW was he?

Thanks for the replies guys, I don't think I'll be pursuing it. Hopefully with the increase in the numbers of cyclists appearing this year, incidents like this will be treated more severely (and more likely to have another cyclist behind you who sees the incident).

He was driving a silver Skoda Octavia, older chap, late 50s/early 60s with a real mean looking face

brayblue24

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Hopefully with the increase in the numbers of cyclists appearing this year, incidents like this will be treated more severely (and more likely to have another cyclist behind you who sees the incident).

+1