ROG on the Lions tour...

danthefan

From the Irish Times.

Monday, August 10, 2009 Irish Times

The tour that just didn't deliver

INTERVIEW: Back in the home of Munster rugby, Ronan O’Gara talks to JOHNNY WATTERSON about his Lions Tour and ‘that’ tackle in the second Test

OUTSIDE THE grounds of Thomond Park a man is pushing the mower in summer sun. He vanishes into the shadow of the west stand and all you can hear is the motor chugging and idle voices echoing around from a balcony up in the east stand.

It is early August and the Munster players have collected for the new term. They goof around, giddy with new-season promise and sprawl with bags of kit, boots, track suits and their new, even redder, shirts.

All have tales from around the world. Canada and the US and Eddie O’Sullivan’s Eagles; Japan and the under-20 World Cup; South Africa and the altitude of the high veldt. For the Lions players, it is their first week back. Others have been in pre-season for four weeks. Some like Tomás O’Leary and Jerry Flannery are still injured; Jean de Villiers has not yet arrived and the younger players, who are biting around the fringes, are coltish fit.

“The boys around here,” says Ronan O’Gara. “They’ve four weeks off and they’re f***ing back training after one.” Wiley dog O’Gara looks at their audacious efforts to gain an edge with suspicious approval. They look for angles. He smiles, but at 32 years old the outhalf remains vigilant and watchful of the other pack members. Today, though, he is grounded. So, niggles from “The Tour”?

“I’m struggling,” he says. “Knee, shoulder, hand – I’ve had them all checked. No major damage. I tried to hit the ground yesterday but I was off the pace.”

O’Gara-the-player would be nothing with out O’Gara-the-person. The two have never been easy to separate. In the merry dance that is a media interview he can be sullen and look at his shoe laces for 15 minutes or he can be engaging and provoking. Interestingly flawed and perhaps the most complex person in the squad, he can play the media but he has never been tiresomely corporate. Belligerent, clever, saturnine, intelligent, street smart and candid, he’s a product of Munster’s eternal belief that they are the best in the world, while reserving the right to savagely cut anyone down that believes in it too much.

But his tour to South Africa was not a happy one. A lasting image is of O’Gara holding the smoking gun as the hopes of the Lions crashed and burned in the second Test, triggering a thousand pub disagreements about what he should or should not have done in the dying seconds.

“For years you think you are the man and now that’s not the case . . . in their eyes,” he says somewhat discomfited by the realisation that for the first time in many years he has not emerged from a tour unblemished.

THAT KICK, that tackle. It was the second last kick of the second Test.

The kick O’Gara lofted high to Fourie du Preez and chased. The kick that led to his unconvincing tackle on du Preez that gave replacement outhalf Morne Steyn a fantasy ending to the match from 53 metres out, one that killed off Lions’ hopes of an historic series win.

And there was the earlier tackle on Pierre Spies that sent O’Gara wobbling to the defensive line before Jaque Fourie ran through him for the Springbok try. O’Gara’s 13 minutes on the pitch rocked with hapless incidents and prompted the self-serving former Lion and England centre Jeremy Guscott to say that he should “hang his head in shame”.

Captain Paul O’Connell, knowing the character of his Munster team mate, was more measured. “He was disappointed and very low but he is a tough guy and he is mentally very tough and that is his biggest strength,” said O’Connell. “What happened won’t be lost on him, no doubt about that.”

Plenty of supporters have been rolled out to list O’Gara’s lengthy honours list and revisit the matches he has won single-handed for Munster and Ireland. But sport is not about the mean average of a career and citations on the outhalf’s outrageous talent with the boot in other jurisdictions may serve to actually amplify the final disappointment.

In the meeting with Fourie, O’Gara’s luck was that he was required to perform his least accomplished part of the game, the tackle, when his head was still spinning from the earlier collision with Spies.

“I’ve spoken about it,” he says flatly. “I got knocked out [by Spies] and I tried to get back into the defensive line and missed a tackle . . . I was aware of Shaun Edwards [Lions assistant coach] in my ear going ‘are you badly hurt, get back off the ground’. That’s exactly what I was trying to do. I wasn’t really badly hurt. I was knocked out and didn’t really know what I was doing. I can’t recall the incident . . . I was knocked out. I just remember trying to throw myself at Fourie and I couldn’t see him properly, you know. So I missed him.”

In the match footage O’Gara is later seen waving to Tommy Bowe to prepare to push up as he shapes to kick the ball out of defence in the dying seconds. “Under the posts I kind of had a little time to get myself together. I remember calling [Tommy Bowe] . . . to kick that ball, chase that ball and I remember that. But that [decision] doesn’t cost me a second thought because I’d do the exact same tomorrow. People ask me, ‘would you not kick it out’ but it never entered my head to kick the ball out. I couldn’t see what a draw would do for anyone.”

O’GARA’S strength is that he has always backed himself and it has paid off most of the time. Last year it brought Munster the Heineken Cup, this year Ireland their first Grand Slam since 1948. Backing his rugby instincts has been profitable.

His garryowen call, despite the Lions at that stage being down two first-pick props and two centres, may have worked but the decision was exacerbated by what 2001 Lions manager Donal Lenihan called “a reckless mid-air collision” on du Preez. “Some referees would give it [penalty]. Some referees wouldn’t,” says O’Gara, suggesting fate played a role but perhaps missing the point that maybe he shouldn’t have carelessly fouled the Springbok and afforded the referee an opportunity to make such a critical call at that stage of a Test match.

“The way I look at it you want the win. I know a draw is better than a defeat,” he explains. “But it didn’t enter my head [to

go for touch]. I kick a contestable garryowen and maybe we’d retain possession, score the other end of the pitch if we could put ourselves in possession and score a drop goal. That’s the way my mind works anyway.”

O’Gara remembers back to the Rugby World Cup in 2007. Unerringly optimistic, he sees a similar storyline unfolding. After a month in Bordeaux the motley crew of Irish under- performers found themselves in the same popularity league as Pol Pot and OJ Simpson.

“A lot of it is on par with World Cup 2007,” he says. “That was hugely disappointing and we had to come back from that and show how to play rugby. I suppose in a weird way or an evil way or whatever way my mind works, it makes for a very good two or three years ahead.”

With distance O’Gara can look back and say that it was an enjoyable tour. But it has taken the month or so away from the game and a holiday in Spain with his family for the wounds to heal. When the first Lions Test team was picked he was crushed as Ian McGeechan set him aside for Stephen Jones. After the team was announced he sought out the management and asked them to explain the call. They did. O’Gara prefers to keep what they specifically said to him private.

“I was sitting in the meeting fully expecting to be selected. I thought I was in poll position. When it was announced it was a big blow,” he says. “I did expect to come on at half-time in the first Test, but that didn’t happen. With 15 minutes to go it didn’t happen. I was saying, I’m seeing this game differently from everybody else. I just got back to my room and thought I don’t think I’m in with a shout here.

“They talk about combinations. I don’t belief for one moment it was about combinations. I’d have no problem playing with Mike Phillips.

“I didn’t disagree [with management] because there wasn’t much to disagree with in what they said,” he explains. “I felt I’d get an opportunity but that opportunity never came and that was disappointing.

“Maybe this management had their minds made up that they wanted Stephen. The game didn’t go well for him in the first Test but they picked him again. I’d set targets, I was happy with the form and I was playing really well.

“Obviously now people will remember my Lions [Tour] for the incidents in the second Test.”

The debate will inevitably rage about his decision to kick high rather than long, whether he had fully recovered from earlier hit by Spies and whether he would have had a more positive effect if selected from the beginning. But claims that he wasn’t given an opportunity may fall on deaf ears.

“What frustrated me was with Paul as captain, I thought it was a great opportunity to win a Test series,” he says. “It was a massive opportunity in both our careers and I felt we left the Test series behind. I find that hard to take and the fact that I didn’t have much to do with it.”

Faithful to himself and in the comfort of Thomond Park, O’Gara believes it. It’s another of his strengths. Not the first or last time that he will filter the rugby world through his own prism.

Thoughts? He seems to think getting himself knocked out in the tackle is some sort of legitimate excuse.

jdivision

Yeah, precisely. Making excuses. He should have taken himself off, it's always about the team not the individual

Riskymove

danthefan wrote: »

Thoughts? He seems to think getting himself knocked out in the tackle is some sort of legitimate excuse.

as an excuse for missing the tackle?, yes he seems to be suggesting he had not recovered and this contributed to the try

not with regard to the last kick incident

danthefan

Riskymove wrote: »

as an excuse for missing the tackle?, yes he seems to be suggesting he had not recovered and this contributed to the try

not with regard to the last kick incident

If he learned to tackle maybe he wouldn't get knocked out in the first place though.

SpAcEd OuT

Am I the only one who thinks he comes across as extremely cocky and self centered in this interview?

_blank_

This better not turn into a RoG bashing excercise.

wixfjord

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks he comes across as extremely cocky and self centered in this interview?

He does aye, and has done before, but is that a bad thing for an international out half? I for one would rather him to be cocky and willing to step up than a sheep. Doesnt mean I have to like the guy, and he is confident and yes cocky, but thats the way he is and this has stood to him when taking pressure kicks. His book reads the same. Sexton has the same temprement, and this may be why there is a percieved dislike between the two.

danthefan

Des wrote: »

This better not turn into a RoG bashing excercise.

Will all due respect, have you read the article? He comes across terribly.

Wreck

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks he comes across as extremely cocky and self centered in this interview?

I dunno about self-centred, but he has always been confident to the point of being cocky, and this is one the reasons he has achieved so much in the sport.

Wreck

danthefan wrote: »

Will all due respect, have you read the article? He comes across terribly.

Very much a matter of opinion.

jayteecork

Belligerent, clever, saturnine, intelligent, street smart and candid

Are you kidding me?

_blank_

jayteecork wrote: »

Are you kidding me?

This type of comment no longer allowed.

DO NOT pick random words from the article and leave a one-sentence commentary please.

If you disagree with the piece, say why.

But say it in a constructive way also.

I am closely monitoring this thread.

Hyperbullet

He may come across as cocky but when you're doing something at a world class level, be it in a sport or elsewhere, you have to believe that you are the best, and carry that confidence into what you do. I dont mind if he comes across as arrogant, as long as he can land those kicks for Ireland and Munster.

wixfjord

Wait a minute now guys, Derek Foley has a piece on this intwerview in todays star. (No link sorry) Its basically the same interview, but with one very imporatnt difference. The piece goes (exact quote):

However having taken the "snap", O Gara decided to attempt a Garryowen rather than ping it straight into touch. "I was composed, Id a little bit of time to get myself together, and I knew what I was doing", he insists dodging the convenient concussion excuses.

Bit of selective editing from the Irish Times journo, which changes the whole story. :rolleyes:

wixfjord

Hyperbullet wrote: »

He may come across as cocky but when you're doing something at a world class level, be it in a sport or elsewhere, you have to believe that you are the best, and carry that confidence into what you do. I dont mind if he comes across as arrogant, as long as he can land those kicks for Ireland and Munster.

Exactely the same as Leinster fans feel about Sexton. Doesnt mean we cant dislike O Gara, but we should be fair towards him. What are your reactions to the Star piece Dan?

Tim Robbins

It's not as if it's the first time he's said something arrogant. He said in an interview (I think this year) that he enjoys playing in the Irish team now, sort of inferring he didn't before. Another time he inferred the Munster lads put more into it. Another time he said the English teams were over hyped.

Anyway, I'd say he gets a rush of blood to the head and says things without thinking them through as he usually says the opposite in the next interview.

There's never been any evidence he can tackle so I didn't think there would be on a Lions tour. he's prone to miss a few big ones in big games so much so EOS changed the defensive system so that someone always covered him remember Trimble came off the blind side wing in the French game WC 2007. Kidney did the same taking someone out of the Lineout for this specific purpose.

TheBigGuy

when you are on top of your game you can afford to be cocky, but in sport and most things in life you are only as good as your last game..

are posters allowed to have negative opinions of ROG?

danthefan

Hyperbullet wrote: »

He may come across as cocky but when you're doing something at a world class level, be it in a sport or elsewhere, you have to believe that you are the best, and carry that confidence into what you do. I dont mind if he comes across as arrogant, as long as he can land those kicks for Ireland and Munster.

I do not believe his talk was backed up by actions. How he can have a go at Jones for playing poorly then go on to say he has no regrets about his own game in the 2nd test is just beyond me.

wixfjord wrote: »

Exactely the same as Leinster fans feel about Sexton. Doesnt mean we cant dislike O Gara, but we should be fair towards him. What are your reactions to the Star piece Dan?

I don't read the Star.

Edit - I see the quote is on the previous page, I'm not sure how it changes the whole story really.

Amabokke

I looked at his tackled on Du Preez again and convinced it was just an accident, stupid but not deliberate. He went for the ball.

As for his tackle on Fourie, far from his fault. Where was the other winger, Phillips and number 21?? They had a better chance than ROG on Fourie.

_blank_

The next idiot comment earns a month ban.

SpAcEd OuT

TheBigGuy wrote: »

when you are on top of your game you can afford to be cocky, but in sport and most things in life you are only as good as your last game..

are posters allowed to have negative opinions of ROG?

Exactly. The fact that ROG has admitted he would do the same thing again shows me hes learned nothing from his Lions experience which is worrying. Times up, your drawing with all to play for in the final test and are in your 22 and you decide to kick a 50/50 ball? Really? And after what happened you say you'd do it again!

Instead of making excuses ROG should just admit he has poor tackling and needs to work on it because this isn't a once off and I very much doubt his excuse seeing he misses tackles all the time. Theres confident and then theres deluded to the point where its affecting your game. ROG had big questions to answer after that tour and it seems hes ignored them.

wixfjord

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

Exactly. The fact that ROG has admitted he would do the same thing again shows me hes learned nothing from his Lions experience which is worrying. Times up, your drawing with all to play for in the final test and are in your 22 and you decide to kick a 50/50 ball? Really? And after what happened you say you'd do it again!

Instead of making excuses ROG should just admit he has poor tackling and needs to work on it because this isn't a once off and I very much doubt his excuse seeing he misses tackles all the time. Theres confident and then theres deluded to the point where its affecting your game. ROG had big questions to answer after that tour and it seems hes ignored them.

All was not to play for in the final test. I can see his reasoning that a win is a win and a draw is as good as a loss. Where he chose to do it from was wrong I agree, but all was not to play for.

Secondly, If you read the full thread you will see that he wasnt making excuses.

Im ROG's biggest criticiser, and have never liked or rated him, but a bit of fairness is needed.

danthefan

wixfjord wrote: »

All was not to play for in the final test. I can see his reasoning that a win is a win and a draw is as good as a loss. Where he chose to do it from was wrong I agree, but all was not to play for.

Secondly, If you read the full thread you will see that he wasnt making excuses.

Im ROG's biggest criticiser, and have never liked or rated him, but a bit of fairness is needed.

If he's not making excuses it's because of the fact he hasn't accepted he actually did anything wrong.

subfreq

It must have been a mental hell for him over his holiday knowing that eventually he would have to face these questions and have to make a public explanation of minute instinctual decision in a game.

No other player from the tour will be put under this inspection as the new season starts. For example when BOD clashed heads and was walking concussed he came flying out of the defensive line at the next phase of play and the Boks scored. I don't hear anyone here saying he was out of order for staying on the field.

ROG had two lines he could have taken with the explanation. Genuflect and take the wrap for the entire loss or stand firm on why you put yourself in the two positions he was in.

I will never understand why he kicked away possession with the last play of the game but at least he isn't hiding from the decision he made.

Hopefully now that he has got it out in the press it can finally be put to bed and we all focus on the season at hand.

razorblunt

I'm amazed at people sniping at O'Gara for being cocky, yet thats exactly what you want outhalfs to be like, and people were calling for Sexton to get that bit of cockiness about him too.

O'Gara missed the tackle on Fourie but Bowe did too and is getting off scot free. There's no excusing the tackle on Du Preez though.

sock puppet

subfreq wrote: »

It must have been a mental hell for him over his holiday knowing that eventually he would have to face these questions and have to make a public explanation of minute instinctual decision in a game.

No other player from the tour will be put under this inspection as the new season starts. For example when BOD clashed heads and was walking concussed he came flying out of the defensive line at the next phase of play and the Boks scored. I don't hear anyone here saying he was out of order for staying on the field.

ROG had two lines he could have taken with the explanation. Genuflect and take the wrap for the entire loss or stand firm on why you put yourself in the two positions he was in.

I will never understand why he kicked away possession with the last play of the game but at least he isn't hiding from the decision he made.

Hopefully now that he has got it out in the press it can finally be put to bed and we all focus on the season at hand.

Brian O'Driscoll should have gone off earlier. A lot of players do the same though. I remember Simon Webster (I think) got knocked out cold against Wales this year and continued on playing. He was stumbling around the pitch for a while before he was finally taken off. It's not right.

subfreq

I totally agree with you SP. I think both should have gone off but in this case only ROG has to answer for it, so unfortunately for him he has to put himself before the gallery in this way.

TO be fair for his own sake he has to come out and give an interview like this so it doesn't follow him around any further.

buck65

Delighted to hear that Ronan's back training, hope he can put it behind him. Would expect he will get plenty of abuse from the opposition players and terraces but he is a strong character.
I genuinely like the guy but his up and under was misjudged. A pity that this happened to him as he had a very decent tour and was scoring well.
Jones did prove the selectors right and played well in the 2nd and 3rd tests.

re the article I fail to see his cockiness at all. He really is just talking himself into a positive mindset for the season ahead. He accepts what he did and has no regrets - good for him, no point wallowing in self pity for the season. He, like it or not is badly needed by both club and country.
Also in regards BOD missing a tackle that caused a try, that really is a nonsense, how many tries did he score, set up and prevent.

Micky Dolenz

I didn't see too much cockiness either, What do people expect him to say. That he forever holds his high in shame and retires.

As a pro sports person he has to put it behind him and move on. His mistakes certainly played a part in losing the series, but the mistakes from the squad and mangement were plentyfull, i can see why he doesn't have to shoulder all the blame.

sock puppet

buck65 wrote: »

Delighted to hear that Ronan's back training, hope he can put it behind him. Would expect he will get plenty of abuse from the opposition players and terraces but he is a strong character.
I genuinely like the guy but his up and under was misjudged. A pity that this happened to him as he had a very decent tour and was scoring well.
Jones did prove the selectors right and played well in the 2nd and 3rd tests.

re the article I fail to see his cockiness at all. He really is just talking himself into a positive mindset for the season ahead. He accepts what he did and has no regrets - good for him, no point wallowing in self pity for the season. He, like it or not is badly needed by both club and country.
Also in regards BOD missing a tackle that caused a try, that really is a nonsense, how many tries did he score, set up and prevent.

I think his point wasn't that he missed a tackle, but rather that he missed it because he played on while injured.

edit: I'm refering to BOD. ROG made a mistake going for the up and under but that's sport.

Hyperbullet

People keep talking about,"when you are at the top of your game ..." eg

Hyperbullet wrote: »

He may come across as cocky but when you're doing something at a world class level, be it in a sport or elsewhere, you have to believe that you are the best, and carry that confidence into what you do. .

The guy hasnt been at the top of his game since before the world cup!

Quotes like

I was sitting in the meeting fully expecting to be selected. I thought I was in poll position. When it was announced it was a big blow

Maybe this management had their minds made up that they wanted Stephen. The game didn’t go well for him in the first Test but they picked him again. I’d set targets, I was happy with the form and I was playing really well

I mean the first quote would indicate that this guy doesnt realise how badly he is playing on the international stage at least ,he is dilusional in this aspct at least and then the second quote is a bit off form.

You dont say things like that about team mates,just because you didnt get picked you cant bag the guy playing.

I havent ever met him so I dont know what he is like and im not going to comment on that like others but I will say in any interview I have ever read he comes across badly and seems to just say the exact wrong things.
You would have thought he would have a good PR person behind him coaching him to keep his more outlandish views reigned in.


My thought on the actual match were that Tommy Bowe is lucky he hasnt been made scapegoat by Rog for not chasing.The kick was absolutely reckless,he made no attempt to even jump for the ball,wasnt looking at the ball and the penalty was 100% correct.

anonymous_joe

Confidence is rarely popular amongst opposition fans. Think of how much we in Ireland resent Martin Johnson etc.

The only thing to really take from that is that he should have taken himself off, and doesn't seem to think he made any mistakes. So that tells us a lot about how he plays the game, which is definitely interesting.

[Jackass]

O'Gara threads are more dangerous than a week in Afghanistan.

All I will say is his attitude sounds arrogant in that piece...he passes the buck and makes excuses for poor decisions and poor performance, even bemoaning the fact that he wasn't selected. I don't think he deserved to be selected on form, and McGeehan seemed to agree, and then when he got his chance, look at what he did.

He would be as well as to keep his head down and say nothing rather than talk like that.

I think the flaws in his game are becoming more obvious, more exposed. I don't know if it's years catching up with him, or being found out by the opposition, but I think O'Gara's place for Ireland should legitimatley be under serious consideration, to at very least give alternatives (namley Sexton) an extended run of oppertunities.

LOTS of players take heavy knocks and play on, it's part of the game, I don't think making those excuses cut it, and I think it makes the performance and situation worse for him to talk like that, like "I did nothing wrong, I'm a victim here".

My thoughts on it anyway.

chupacabra

[Jackass] wrote: »

O'Gara threads are more dangerous than a week in Afghanistan.

Haha, brilliant.

pulldownthemaul

Amabokke wrote: »

I looked at his tackled on Du Preez again and convinced it was just an accident, stupid but not deliberate. He went for the ball.

As for his tackle on Fourie, far from his fault. Where was the other winger, Phillips and number 21?? They had a better chance than ROG on Fourie.

Where was 21 !!! exactly you *%"£$** . O'Gara was 21.

Pathetic tackle by o'gara. The selectors should hold some blame as O'Gara has been a weak / very poor tackler his whole career & they know this. You play him knowing this but in Ireland's case it is a trade off for what he brings in attack & the absence of other 10s.
His decision at the end though was dreadful.
How he can defend himself and not just eat humble pie is a shame.

Diom

Lost much respect for ROG over the last while. He's a fantastic kicker, and he can read a game well, but not being able to tackle in the modern game is a huge flaw. His defensive work has improved, but it is still not up to the standard required.
I appreciate that recently he has become a lot more committed to Ireland, and has looked to rally his team mates on occasion, but I still cannot forgive his inability to put down a man in his channel.

EDIT:
Just to add, we have the option now with Keatley and Sexton. They have complimentary styles, both can tackle, Sexton has the better boot, and Keatley has the better eye and strength with the ball in hand. We should use them.

wixfjord

Diom wrote: »

Lost much respect for ROG over the last while. He's a fantastic kicker, and he can read a game well, but not being able to tackle in the modern game is a huge flaw. His defensive work has improved, but it is still not up to the standard required.
I appreciate that recently he has become a lot more committed to Ireland, and has looked to rally his team mates on occasion, but I still cannot forgive his inability to put down a man in his channel.

EDIT:
Just to add, we have the option now with Keatley and Sexton. They have complimentary styles, both can tackle, Sexton has the better boot, and Keatley has the better eye and strength with the ball in hand. We should use them.

Sexton hasnt a bad eye either, when he was o/h last year the Leinster backline looked a lot more fluid than with conters. See the Scarlets game or the Fitz try against wasps.

Glad to see that posters have backed up their points and this hasnt turned into a I hate/love ROG thread!

Crash

I'd actually say at the moment Sexton has the better distribution of the two.

Stev_o

Article is to do with ROG so why is Sextons name cropping up? Can't we leave that discussion for a more appropriate thread?

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

Article is to do with ROG so why is Sextons name cropping up? Can't we leave that discussion for a more appropriate thread?

Well one thing to say about him that the tour proved in my mind is this:

He's still a really good out-half. The guy I'd compare him to is Ruan Pienaar. Both are really talented, but both are a little bit shy of the physical contact.

In the second test, Pienaar was so scared of the Lions defence he was playing about a yard back from where he should be and totally shutting down the Boks attack. O'Gara's problems with the tackle are well documented here.

Basically, we saw him for what he is - a very clever talented out-half, with great vision, a decent boot and a couple of flaws - unhappy with the physical work and a little bit staid and predicatable when running with the ball in hand. It's nothing new. He's not all of a sudden any worse, he's still Ireland's best out-half, we just need to be more open to judging him fairly, and without bias.

remus808

Two lines I'm suprised noone has taken issue with yet, as they stood out clear as day to me:

They talk about combinations. I don’t believe for one moment it was about combinations. I’d have no problem playing with Mike Phillips.

This is ridiculous coming from a professional rugby player IMO: surely he knows that combination refers to the partnership Phillips and Jones have from playing together with Wales - Ronan, you may think Mike is a swell guy and a great passer of the ball and whatever else, but that does not a 'combination' make. Comes across as very disrespectfull to the management, when he should know full well what they mean by a combination.

I couldn’t see what a draw would do for anyone.

In the dying moments of a Lions test series that was currently in the balance at 1-0? Really Ronan, your telling us you couldn't see the advantage of giving us a chance to level the series? Again, from a professional with huge experience in tournament and knockout rugby, I find this incredible.

Based on the above, ROG could really do with a bit more perspective.

anonymous_joe

karmabass wrote: »

Two lines I'm suprised noone has taken issue with yet, as they stood out clear as day to me:



This is ridiculous coming from a professional rugby player IMO: surely he knows that combination refers to the partnership Phillips and Jones have from playing together with Wales - Ronan, you may think Mike is a swell guy and a great passer of the ball and whatever else, but that does not a 'combination' make. Comes across as very disrespectfull to the management, when he should know full well what they mean by a combination.



In the dying moments of a Lions test series that was currently in the balance at 1-0? Really Ronan, your telling us you couldn't see the advantage of giving us a chance to level the series? Again, from a professional with huge experience in tournament and knockout rugby, I find this incredible.

Based on the above, ROG could really do with a bit more perspective.

I think a lot of people would laud him for such dedication to winning.

If you asked your average fan 'would you settle for the draw in the last minute or go for the win' a large number would demand the win.

pulldownthemaul

pulldownthemaul wrote: »

Where was 21 !!! exactly you *%"£$** . O'Gara was 21.

Pathetic tackle by o'gara. The selectors should hold some blame as O'Gara has been a weak / very poor tackler his whole career & they know this. You play him knowing this but in Ireland's case it is a trade off for what he brings in attack & the absence of other 10s.
His decision at the end though was dreadful.
How he can defend himself and not just eat humble pie is a shame.

Come again?

remus808

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think a lot of people would laud him for such dedication to winning.

If you asked your average fan 'would you settle for the draw in the last minute or go for the win' a large number would demand the win.

I don't consider it as 'settling' for a draw though - it's a different from, say, a league match... in the overall scope of the test series, a draw was definitely a good enough outcome. Put it this way, if you ranked the outcomes in order of preference:

1. Win (keeps us in the series)
2. Draw (keeps us in the series)
3. Daylight
4. Loss (series lost; game over for another 4 years)

As I said, I am particularly suprised at ROG for not being more savvy in this regard - how long have Munster with him at the helm been lauded as 'intelligent', 'pragmatic' etc for the way they approach the HEC - by doing whatever is necessary to keep them in the hunt.

Riskymove

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think a lot of people would laud him for such dedication to winning.

If you asked your average fan 'would you settle for the draw in the last minute or go for the win' a large number would demand the win.

I agree,

if the lions had got the ball, gone upfield and won, how many posters would be on here castigating ROG?

would people REALLY have wanted the Lions to just kick the ball out when in possession and settle for a draw? Is that what the Lions or indeed any professional outfit should be about?

If it had been IRL v Wales for the grand slam and the teams were level would you have wanted ireland to just kick it out to settle for a draw?

Riskymove

karmabass wrote: »

1. Win (keeps us in the series) and allows us a chance at winning series
2. Draw (keeps us in the series) and allows us to draw the series at most
3. Daylight
4. Loss (series lost; game over for another 4 years) but at least we tried to win

It would be settling as you could no longer win the series

smurphy29

I ws involved in a discussion/argument about the value of the draw yesterday. ROG was involved in the discussion with O'Connell on 77 minutes when the team elected to go for the three points rather than a tryand level the game - which reflects that the draw was at least an acceptable outcome to the rest of the team. Having been involved in the process (he did appear to suggest going for the try btw), I fail to see where he came up with the idea that a draw was 'of no use to anyone'. Regardless of his own philosophy on the draw/win, he should have been playing to the ethos of the team.

I too find his attitude a bit disappointing, especially the criticism of Jones and the management, and he compares unfavourably with Donncha O'Callaghan' comments on the tour in today's Times.

yupyup7up

I actually completely agree with ROG even though he can be a bit of a gowl. Whats the point in drawing the series? I'd rather try win a game and fail than try draw and succeed... I think the villain of that game was Stuart Dickinson for not calling Fouries try to be in touch. Dickinson was told by the assistant ref that Fourie was out and Dickinson overruled him. He tried the same bull-honkey in the third test too as the TMO but was overruled by Bryce Lawrence. Also Dickinson and Berdoz couldnt even f*cking communicate!!! Referees fault IMO

dub_skav

You have to also add in the probability of both approaches succeeding.

Long kick to touch, extremely good chance of a draw

Rog chasing his own garryowen with no centres or props on the pitch and a completely makeshift backline. Chances of winning extremely unlikely.

If he was that keen on winning the best chance would probably have come from a long kick to space with a good chase rather than a garryowen with only him chasing which was landing right on the halfway line.

By all means laud a player for not accepting mediocrity but not when the approach they took was so obviously flawed

Riskymove

smurphy29 wrote: »

I ws involved in a discussion/argument about the value of the draw yesterday. ROG was involved in the discussion with O'Connell on 77 minutes when the team elected to go for the three points rather than a tryand level the game - which reflects that the draw was at least an acceptable outcome to the rest of the team. Having been involved in the process (he did appear to suggest going for the try btw), I fail to see where he came up with the idea that a draw was 'of no use to anyone'. Regardless of his own philosophy on the draw/win, he should have been playing to the ethos of the team.

1. They are two different situations, in one you are behind and have the chance to level and then have a go at winning. In the other you are level and are in possesion and its the last play

2. You say ROG wanted to go for try....and therefore he kept this mentality when making his decision to kick later on...to suggest he went against the ethos of the team by wanting to win???...crazy

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think a lot of people would laud him for such dedication to winning.

If you asked your average fan 'would you settle for the draw in the last minute or go for the win' a large number would demand the win.

True but i think alot of people felt that the risk was too much to go for the win and that it would be seen as a triumph and a switch of momentum if the Lions managed a draw.