just applied to a med school in ukraine

imported_guy

hey guys, i did my LC last year didnt get into med so i was doing mechanical engineering, boring as hell but passed my first year.

anyhow ive applied to a university in ukraine, the fee is like 3k USD which is alot less than if i do GEM here, and they are saying that its recognised globally etc. i dont know the name etc of the college but the website is http://www.****/ for the agencey their video http://www.****/video.html

anyone know anything about this? like is it pretty legit etc?

thanks

segaBOY

Exercise EXTREME caution, I have heard plenty of agencies simply taking students money and running. Furthermore, Ukraine is not within the EU so your degree may not be recognised over here. Do plenty of research on the net and google every name you come across! Heard of an agent by the name of SNIP who stole up to 100k from a student promising a place in a med school in Hungary that never materialised and now I believe a warrant is out for his arrest in the states.

imported_guy

segaBOY wrote: »

Exercise EXTREME caution, I have heard plenty of agencies simply taking students money and running. Furthermore, the Ukraine is not within the EU so your degree may not be recognised over here. Do plenty of research on the net and google every name you come across! Heard of an agent by the name of SNIP who stole up to 100k from a student promising a place in a med school in Hungary that never materialised and now I believe a warrant is out for his arrest in the states.

thanks for the heads up, yeah this is what im concerned about, any more tips? i just downloaded the prospectus am going through it right now

segaBOY

imported_guy wrote: »

thanks for the heads up, yeah this is what im concerned about, any more tips? i just downloaded the prospectus am going through it right now

I know a lot of guys go to Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland from here. I have heard that you do pre-med but only 50% will actually pass it so that's all that will go into 1st year. Also it will prob be a lot tougher to get a job. I would advise sticking to Ireland or the UK tbh. The GEM prog is v expensive at 13k a year but you will prob have better career development after. All I'd say is do plenty of research before you hand over any money, it could be a scam!

imported_guy

segaBOY wrote: »

I know a lot of guys go to Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland from here. I have heard that you do pre-med but only 50% will actually pass it so that's all that will go into 1st year. Also it will prob be a lot tougher to get a job. I would advise sticking to Ireland or the UK tbh. The GEM prog is v expensive at 13k a year but you will prob have better career development after. All I'd say is do plenty of research before you hand over any money, it could be a scam!

well i dont think these guys have any pre med courses, but probably i'll have to pass 1st yr to move on to 2nd etc, if it isnt fake, and my dad graduated from pakistan (prolly a worse off country than ukraine) and he has been working here in ireland for 7 years, and there are alot of doctors here from pakistan/india/africa who didnt go to like any college here in ireland, and i didnt have the points from LC to get into med college here, btw any chance of naming some colleges which teach in english in like poland or czech republic? ive heard if you go to hungary, you need to learn hungarian and stuff?

segaBOY

imported_guy wrote: »

well i dont think these guys have any pre med courses, but probably i'll have to pass 1st yr to move on to 2nd etc, if it isnt fake, and my dad graduated from pakistan (prolly a worse off country than ukraine) and he has been working here in ireland for 7 years, and there are alot of doctors here from pakistan/india/africa who didnt go to like any college here in ireland, and i didnt have the points from LC to get into college here, btw any chance of naming some colleges which teach in english in like poland or czech republic? ive heard if you go to hungary, you need to learn hungarian and stuff?

Warsaw in Poland has a good rep-all I'm saying is be wary mate.

gillo_100

I have to say looking at the Karabuts website I thought looked a bit dodgy.
They say it is IYHT Medical univeristy

Which is http://www.tdmu.edu.te.ua/eng/general/index.php

Looking at this website it seems to be all decent, I'd say have a good look through the website and probably better to go striaght to college rather than through agency

Edit:
Ok after a bit of a better look through website not a whole lot of information on the course, facilities or other stuff like that. I reckon its legit alright, as to the quality of it ???? Probably best to stay in EU

tallaght01

montjuic banned.

imported_guy

segaBOY wrote: »

Warsaw in Poland has a good rep-all I'm saying is be wary mate.

nice one i'll look into it

and gillo mate, i looked hard but couldnt find that site , might try talking directly with the college and see if the agency is legit, thanks alot

drzhivago

imported_guy wrote: »

hey guys, i did my LC last year didnt get into med so i was doing mechanical engineering, boring as hell but passed my first year.

anyhow ive applied to a university in ukraine, the fee is like 3k USD which is alot less than if i do GEM here, and they are saying that its recognised globally etc. i dont know the name etc of the college but the website is http://www.****/ for the agencey their video http://www.****/video.html
anyone know anything about this? like is it pretty legit etc?
thanks

At first glance it may well be recognised globally as a medical school however that does not mean it will be easy for you to practice medicine in Ireland

If you cant get in or cant afford Ireland first look to UK, then look to rest of EU, Hungary and Czech Republic have some good schools which because they are in the EU would make practice in Ireland that bit easier

Getting a degree does not mean you will be able to work as a doctor so you may well need to look into this a lot more before you make a decision which may well getting a worthless degree if you want to come back here to work.

smileypony

Yep Id be pretty careful mate. As drzhivago said having a medical degree does not at all mean you can practice as a doctor in Ireland. Ive had similar experience of this situation with friend who qualified in veterinary medicine overseas and cant get registered to practice in Ireland, and its a similiar situation in human medicine. Do your research and id check with the medical council about registering with a degree from Karabuts. Best of luck and lets know how u get on!

imported_guy

yeah im actully a bit worried about the accredation now as well, so im looking at the ones inside EU, and ones who are fully accredited in all 50 US states (well this one is a bigger priority than ireland for me) and if this doesnt work out i'll work on my 2.1 degree and GAMSAT/MCAT and see if i can get into college here or carrabien (but i think all carrabien schools need a premed B.S degree which i wont have cuz im doing mech eng), so right now im looking at poland, czech republic, slovakia, hungary (hearing bad things about hungary on some other forums),

maxheadroom

imported_guy wrote: »

yeah im actully a bit worried about the accredation now as well, so im looking at the ones inside EU, and ones who are fully accredited in all 50 US states (well this one is a bigger priority than ireland for me) and if this doesnt work out i'll work on my 2.1 degree and GAMSAT/MCAT and see if i can get into college here or carrabien (but i think all carrabien schools need a premed B.S degree which i wont have cuz im doing mech eng), so right now im looking at poland, czech republic, slovakia, hungary (hearing bad things about hungary on some other forums),

I went to trinity. In my year, there were 3 students who were qualified doctors from a former soviet state like Moldova or Belarus or the Ukraine. Not only was their degree unrecognised, they had to repeat almost the entire medical degree in Ireland and pay fees the whole time. Once qualified, these people have found it very difficult to get onto further training schemes. I've heard that it has been similar in other years. I would not reccomend this course of action.

The situation might be better for some of the new EU states from Eastern Europe. However, bear in mind that the equipment and practices are likely to be very different from Irish / Western European standards. While your theoretical knowledge is likely to be directly transferable, most of your practical knowledge won't be.

Even ignoring all of what I've just said, how will you overcome the language barrier? While the course may be taught in English, your patients won't speak it. While its a truism, a huge amount of what you learn in med school comes from interaction with the patients.

imported_guy

Even ignoring all of what I've just said, how will you overcome the language barrier? While the course may be taught in English, your patients won't speak it. While its a truism, a huge amount of what you learn in med school comes from interaction with the patients.

from what i can see, and hear on other forums, alot of the US students (in eastern europe/carrabien, not ukraine) transfer back to rotations in america for clinical years, i was thinking about trying and comming back to like UCC or UL etc and try and do the clinicals here, i dont know if it is possible though


actully it should be, because within the EU, all the university credits are standardised (60 credits per year) so im pretty sure once you get accepted into a med school, and do pretty good and get decent grades, you would be able to transfer after certain amount of credits

PSS, UCC website says this "- applicants must have the points score that applied for entry to the first year of the programme for which they are applying. "

im screwed. i guess i'll have to go the GAMSAT way if nothing else works out, or do 1 more semester and go to the carabien, (they require 90 credits, i have 60)

another way is to see if my parents let me go back to pakistan and study there, medical education is pretty much top class over there, and probably not hard to get into if you know people, and the accredation and stuff, my dad works in paediatrics in bonsecures in cork, theres 4 doctors in paediatrics, 3 of them are pakistani 1 is indian, so im guessing it wont be hard to come back here

maxheadroom

imported_guy wrote: »

from what i can see, and hear on other forums, alot of the US students (in eastern europe/carrabien, not ukraine) transfer back to rotations in america for clinical years, i was thinking about trying and comming back to like UCC or UL etc and try and do the clinicals here, i dont know if it is possible though


actully it should be, because within the EU, all the university credits are standardised (60 credits per year) so im pretty sure once you get accepted into a med school, and do pretty good and get decent grades, you would be able to transfer after certain amount of credits

PSS, UCC website says this "- applicants must have the points score that applied for entry to the first year of the programme for which they are applying. "

im screwed. i guess i'll have to go the GAMSAT way if nothing else works out, or do 1 more semester and go to the carabien, (they require 90 credits, i have 60)

another way is to see if my parents let me go back to pakistan and study there, medical education is pretty much top class over there, and probably not hard to get into if you know people, and the accredation and stuff, my dad works in paediatrics in bonsecures in cork, theres 4 doctors in paediatrics, 3 of them are pakistani 1 is indian, so im guessing it wont be hard to come back here

Again, just my personal experience, but I've never heard of an Irish university letting someone transfer back to do the clinical rotations. They generally have enough trouble trying to guarantee rotations for their own students.

If you have a non EU medical degree, you'll need to consult the medical council's website to see what rules will apply with regards to registration. Some countries medical degrees are accepted for this, some aren't.

YFlyer

imported_guy wrote: »

from what i can see, and hear on other forums, alot of the US students (in eastern europe/carrabien, not ukraine) transfer back to rotations in america for clinical years, i was thinking about trying and comming back to like UCC or UL etc and try and do the clinicals here, i dont know if it is possible though


actully it should be, because within the EU, all the university credits are standardised (60 credits per year) so im pretty sure once you get accepted into a med school, and do pretty good and get decent grades, you would be able to transfer after certain amount of credits

PSS, UCC website says this "- applicants must have the points score that applied for entry to the first year of the programme for which they are applying. "

im screwed. i guess i'll have to go the GAMSAT way if nothing else works out, or do 1 more semester and go to the carabien, (they require 90 credits, i have 60)

another way is to see if my parents let me go back to pakistan and study there, medical education is pretty much top class over there, and probably not hard to get into if you know people, and the accredation and stuff, my dad works in paediatrics in bonsecures in cork, theres 4 doctors in paediatrics, 3 of them are pakistani 1 is indian, so im guessing it wont be hard to come back here

Remember you can do science based degree and then apply for the Post Grad medical course in UL. Not sure about mechanical engineering.

imported_guy

YFlyer wrote: »

Remember you can do science based degree and then apply for the Post Grad medical course in UL. Not sure about mechanical engineering.

they take any 2.1 degree and its not just UL anymore, its all unis except NIUG

but GAMSAT just makes me puke, and i did all 3 sciences for LC and got over a C in all of them (honours) but i guess i still have 3 more years to go

wayhey

It looks a bit dodgy... and maxheadroom raises a major point, even if you can go somewhere else for rotations won't it be a bit of a downer to go to a university where you can't commuicate comfortably with the majority of students? Secondly, you're doing mechanical engineering, seems worlds away from Medicine to me, you sure you really want to do it? It'd be win-win if you go to a careers expert. They'd be able to help you get you definite assurances on what degree would be valid from where and look at other careers you might enjoy if you don't want to go through with the GAMSAT and the whole ordeal of a massive course. Good luck with it!!

dubcitycentre

YFlyer wrote: »

Remember you can do science based degree and then apply for the Post Grad medical course in UL. Not sure about mechanical engineering.

U can do a music degree or degree in ancient civilization and still apply for post grad medicine in Ireland. It doesnt matter what the degree, all you need to have is a 2.1 in it, and do well in the GAMSAT exam. Having said all that, a science degree would better prepare you for the GAMSAT than a music degree.

To the OP: If you interest is to do medicine, why the hell did you do a mechanical engineering course? WHy not science, biology, biochemistry or something relevant to medicine?
I would recommend you get your degree, do well in it and do the GAMSAT and get into an irish university, or as others have suggested try the UK. There are 3 year honours degrees in the UK so you could go there and do an appropriate degree in 3 yrs and then do medicine here, or there. Alternatively, you could repeat yourleaving cert and get the required 480 points and sit the HPAT (if that is alowed). 480 points isnt that hard to get and if you cant get 480 points, you will probably struggle to keep up in medicine.
As for Carribean Universities...they are about 30,000 euro per year. There are only 4 of them that are worth going to, mainly Ross, AUC, St George and Saba. Ive looked into them all. They have their own problems and u are prettymuch on your own with them, all they want is you money. Some ofthem take in far too many students, knowing a lot will fail, some do not have enough clinical spots for all their students and some raise the pass mark if not enough people fail, so to ensure enough people to fail sothey can give clinical spots to their passing students.
Moral of the story is....exhaust every avenue ini reland and the UK before considering anywhere else. Good luck with it

imported_guy

exhaust every avenue ini reland and the UK before considering anywhere else. Good luck with it

yeah ive changed my mind about ukraine, and more than likely going to go for the GAMSAT, and study for it next summer, well i always believed i wanted to do medicine, and if not something like chemical engineering and then do medicine, but i didnt get chemical engineering or medicine so i took this, and also my cousin from america did chem-eng, and is doing med in saba, ive only heard good things about it, ive written to saba and xavier, xavier have a pre med, but i dont think saba do, but i just think if i can graduate from saba or xavier, with both USMLEs, cleared, i wouldnt really care about getting residency matched stright out of med school, id look at other options such as PLAB etc first, and if i dont get in as undergrad/pre med in carabbien, i'll forget about that, cuz they dont take engineering graduates without the pre med requirements completed, and just do GAMSAT and apply here.

Anthony16

Even ignoring all of what I've just said, how will you overcome the language barrier? While the course may be taught in English, your patients won't speak it. While its a truism, a huge amount of what you learn in med school comes from interaction with the patients.[/quote]

Students in eastern europe are opbliged to learn the native language in order to be able to communicate wit patients.Also,only 4-6 weeks of 6th yr(intern year in east europe) Has to be done there.Students can organise to do their training in english speaking countries eg usa,canada,south africa etc.Iv looked into this and spoken to students overseas so i know this

drzhivago

Anthony16 wrote: »

Students in eastern europe are opbliged to learn the native language in order to be able to communicate wit patients.Also,only 4-6 weeks of 6th yr(intern year in east europe) Has to be done there.Students can organise to do their training in english speaking countries eg usa,canada,south africa etc.Iv looked into this and spoken to students overseas so i know this

Organising this easier said than done.
Many if the US unis/hospitals will want cash to take you on for prolonged periods of time

Certainly wont be able to do this in Ireland with the pressure on clinical student places now and going into future with increased numbers of students

tallaght01

PLus I believe there's quite a bit of pressure on intern places too. It would be hard to get a place if you;re not an Irish grad AFAIK.

drzhivago

tallaght01 wrote: »

PLus I believe there's quite a bit of pressure on intern places too. It would be hard to get a place if you;re not an Irish grad AFAIK.

AFAIK (getting used to the lingo now)
Intern place would be an easier option than student placement

Intern is employment, governed by equality and national law, open to challenge (even though noone has done so, it can be challenged legally)

Student placement at whim of particular uni if you are from outside Ireland

Mentioned here before graduating from some countries in Europe and EU you are not required to do an Internship as in IReland

The Qualifications from those countries enable a person to get on the general register fully registered
This is an advantage and a disadvantage

The disadvantage is the only job you can apply for is an SHO job but you have never worked before so will be ranked a poor candidate--catch 22

The registration type will not allow you to work in an Intern post per se

Anthony16

drzhivago wrote: »

Organising this easier said than done.
Many if the US unis/hospitals will want cash to take you on for prolonged periods of time

Certainly wont be able to do this in Ireland with the pressure on clinical student places now and going into future with increased numbers of students

Yes,this is true,they want cash and you would want to be organising it 2 or 3 years in advance but,if u have the dosh then its a very realistic possibility.
Ya,not possible in Ireland and itd be very hard for an eastern european graduate to get onto a training scheme in ireland................

opinion guy

I don't think it would be recognised here to be honest. I know severl docs originally from former Soviet nations who had to requalify when they came here.

check with the irish medical council perhaps

eth0_

OP - if your dad qualified in Pakistan then he's either had to do a load of training and exams to enable him to be recognised by the Irish Medical Council, or he's been working as a locum for 7 years which means no training and no promotion opportunities.

Going outside the EU is a bad idea.

Can I ask why you didn't just repeat your leaving cert? It would have been a lot easier than what you're doing now.

imported_guy

eth0_ wrote: »

OP - if your dad qualified in Pakistan then he's either had to do a load of training and exams to enable him to be recognised by the Irish Medical Council, or he's been working as a locum for 7 years which means no training and no promotion opportunities.

Going outside the EU is a bad idea.

Can I ask why you didn't just repeat your leaving cert? It would have been a lot easier than what you're doing now.

he did mrcp 1 and 2 when he came here (he had already done FRCS 1 in pakistan, and i dont know what the story/regonition is for that), he actully came here first in 1990, and got perminant registration with Irish medical council (back then the only thing you needed to practice was a medical degree, but then he came back to pakistan and worked there/did FRCS and went back to ireland in 2001 and did MRCP 1 and 2, he continued to work because he was already fully registered since 1990) so he has been working as an SHO since he came (2001), he hasnt done much locum at all, and hes been working in the same hospital for the past 5 yrs (as an SHO paeds),

and i didnt feel like repeating the LC, because i would have had to repeat everything again, because of the HPAT, and get ready for the HPAT the same year, so i just said F that, and am in 2nd yr mechanical engineering, and will stick this out until the end, and im going to do the GAMSAT in 2010 or 2011

eth0_

Yes I said he either did additional training and exams or must have decided to work as a locum, which doesn't allow for promotion.

I was just pointing out how things could be for you too, if you did a medical degree outside the EU, but I see you've decided to do GAMSAT now which is a much safer idea. Good luck!

briankirby

drzhivago wrote: »

Organising this easier said than done.
Many if the US unis/hospitals will want cash to take you on for prolonged periods of time

Certainly wont be able to do this in Ireland with the pressure on clinical student places now and going into future with increased numbers of students

Uk hospitals dont charge for this.Irish ones do.Bottom line:if u have money in your pocket a lot of things are possible

Remmy

OP best of luck with whatever route you decide to go!