Handgun subtitutions??

daveob007

Does anyone know if we will be able to change a handgun which is currently licenced.
There is a section on the new form which allows this but does it refer to handguns or would a change of handgun be a new application.
The new bill bans all new handguns,but is that for first timers or everyone.
I want to change mine and realise that a dealer might not be able to sell it on so might have to get it destroyed or deactivated,or even converted to a .22 rimfire,which is easily done.
Big question is will the new bill allow for this????

fat-tony

I take it your current pistol is restricted?
As I read it the new Acts would not allow you to make an application for a new restricted pistol, but you could apply for an unrestricted pistol, while retaining your restricted one. The guidelines (which we are all waiting on) should make it clearer how a substitution would work in practice.

Bananaman

All pistols are restricted? Some are prohibited?

derek_g34

You'll have no problem making a substitution. But you will have a problem finding a buyer for your gun (unless of course it's something which is well sought after i.e. CZ 75 TS etc) Your other problem is going to be that there are no more centre fire pistols coming into the country.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

All pistols are restricted?

Definitely not...

fat-tony

Bananaman wrote: »

All pistols are restricted? Some are prohibited?

Are those meant to be questions? Are you not sure?
Pistols used in Olympic competition have not been restricted by the Minister. Other pistols are restricted to their current owners. Any firearms prohibited have always been prohibited in the Firearms Acts.

BornToKill

derek_g34 wrote: »

You'll have no problem making a substitution.

I wouldn't agree that that's the case. The new act says you are only allowed a new cert for:

'a short firearm for which the applicant for the firearm certificate held a firearm certificate on or before 19 November 2008.'

I'd believe that means the firearm you had licensed last year - hence no substitutions.

fat-tony

fat-tony wrote: »

Other pistols are restricted to their current owners.

Agreed BTK

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that that's the case. The new act says you are only allowed a new cert for:

'a short firearm for which the applicant for the firearm certificate held a firearm certificate on or before 19 November 2008.'

I'd believe that means the firearm you had licensed last year - hence no substitutions.

I've some difficulty parsing and analysing that one BTK. The section needs to be read together for the full sense and as such it would read.

As and from the date of commencement of this section, no application for a firearm certificate in respect of a short firearm shall be considered by an issuing person other than for a short firearm for which the applicant for the firearm certificate held a firearm certificate on or before 19 November 2008.

It reads a bit different when put like that or does it?

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

It reads a bit different when put like that or does it?

Not really, but then I'm a pessimist...

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Not really, but then I'm a pessimist...

Part of the cure is acknowledging the condition

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Part of the cure is acknowledging the condition

To quote Leonard Cohen: "I don't consider myself a pessimist. I think of a pessimist as someone who is waiting for it to rain. And I feel soaked to the skin."

fat-tony

This is the full text of the relevant section:

3D.—(1) As and from the date of commencement of this section, no application
for a firearm certificate in respect of a short firearm shall be considered by an
issuing person other than for—
(a) a device capable of discharging blank ammunition and to be used as a
starting gun or blank firing gun;
(b) a short firearm of a type specified at paragraph 4(2)(e) of the Firearms
(Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 (S.I. No. 21 of 2008) and
designed for use as so specified;
(c) a short firearm for which the applicant for the firearm certificate held a
firearm certificate on or before 19 November 2008.

RRPC - Your interpretation of para. (c) is that any firearms cert. holder (held prior to 19/11/08) can apply for a restricted short fiream?

My interpretation is that the reference is to the holder of the certificate, "renewing" the same certificate - not applying for one for a new gun.

BornToKill

fat-tony wrote: »

Agreed BTK

OK F-T, though you've quoted yourself there and not me.:)

rrpc wrote: »

It reads a bit different when put like that or does it?

I won't argue it because I just don't know. I think it means you have to have had that specific handgun licensed last year but an alternative interpretation would be that you could apply for a cert if you had that type of gun licensed previously. I lean to the former but, as I said, I just don't know.

fat-tony

Yeh I know I quoted a section of my reply to B'man, where I essentially said that restricted pistols were restricted to their current owners.

Like you, I lean to the interpretation that paragraph (c) means you can't substitute - you're stuck with existing firearm. But hey - we await the guidelines

BornToKill

Thanks - gotcha now. Yes, we'll see soon.

daveob007

i suppose it would be better to wait for the guidelines to figure it out,
Big question is that if i can replace my pistol (which is a glock) and could be banned in the future can i sell it at all,,don't want to scrap it either because it cost too much so can i get it deactivated and keep it as a display or collectors gun???
i could even get a .22 rimfire conversion kit for it but not sure if it will fall into the category of olympic class?????????????
confused..

rrpc

daveob007 wrote: »

i suppose it would be better to wait for the guidelines to figure it out,
Big question is that if i can replace my pistol (which is a glock) and could be banned in the future can i sell it at all,,don't want to scrap it either because it cost too much so can i get it deactivated and keep it as a display or collectors gun???
i could even get a .22 rimfire conversion kit for it but not sure if it will fall into the category of olympic class?????????????
confused..

Don't change anything untill you have to. You hold a centre fire pistol licence before 19/11/08 and therefore are one of those entitled to have your application 'considered'.

daveob007

rrpc wrote: »

Don't change anything untill you have to. You hold a centre fire pistol licence before 19/11/08 and therefore are one of those entitled to have your application 'considered'.

have it for a year so will apply anyway,
just interested in changing for a proper competition target gun.
Was advised to try and get rid of the g17. though.
We all know that a lot of gardai do not like these and would prefer if we dont have them,,thats all.

rrpc

daveob007 wrote: »

have it for a year so will apply anyway,
just interested in changing for a proper competition target gun.
Was advised to try and get rid of the g17. though.
We all know that a lot of gardai do not like these and would prefer if we dont have them,,thats all.

Indeed. But it's unclear as to whether you'll get another centre-fire pistol other than the one you currently hold. We've been discussing this here and can't come to a conclusion as it's just too vague. If they refuse you a licence for the G17, you can decide what to do at that point, but I wouldn't be giving up straight away if I was competing regularly and using it all the time.

The guidelines will help, but I'm not sure how much

daveob007

rrpc wrote: »

Indeed. But it's unclear as to whether you'll get another centre-fire pistol other than the one you currently hold. We've been discussing this here and can't come to a conclusion as it's just too vague. If they refuse you a licence for the G17, you can decide what to do at that point, but I wouldn't be giving up straight away if I was competing regularly and using it all the time.

The guidelines will help, but I'm not sure how much

we hope they will anyway.
i will be applying for a .22 anyway soon as we get the info on them.

G17

daveob007 wrote: »

have it for a year so will apply anyway,
just interested in changing for a proper competition target gun.

I consider mine a proper competition gun. I shoot bullseye well. I don't remember having an embarrassing score at PPC when I did it for the first time. I shoot it one handed.

The guy who owned it before me bought a 210 and still can't hit anything. I'm a big Austrian unmentionable fan (on my third one) and it's not really helpful when people post on a public forum that one type of firearm or another isn't a competition gun.

If people aren't competitive with their Austrians, please don't blame the gun (not a dig at you personally daveob007).

Bananaman

I also own an Austrian unmentionable (34) and I have a good sized box of medals to prove it is well competitive in a whole range of sports.

I have seen plenty of lads go out and spend 1000's on 'superior' pistols only to have me beat them.

Granted - 50 metre precision is not my strong point but that is only because I have not done any practice in it - just the occasional comepetition.

That said - the first time I took a shot at 50 metres I aimed dead centre and I got an X - needless to say I unloaded, put it away and lived on the that story for a few weeks before I tried it again.

B'Man

PS: I also will be seeking a .22 once the dust has settled.

G17

Bananaman wrote: »

That said - the first time I took a shot at 50 metres I aimed dead centre and I got an X - needless to say I unloaded, put it away and lived on the that story for a few weeks before I tried it again.

Probably best!

PS: I also will be seeking a .22 once the dust has settled.

Do.

I'd a 9 then a .22 and a 177 IZH on the way, some will think I'm progressing some will think I'm wussing. Answers on a €20 to........

rrpc

G17 wrote: »

I'd a 9 then a .22 and a 177 IZH on the way, some will think I'm progressing some will think I'm wussing. Answers on a €20 to........

The IZH also doubles as a chest expander, so it'll save you money on your gym sub.

G17

rrpc wrote: »

The IZH also doubles as a chest expander, so it'll save you money on your gym sub.

Blasting me pecs and consistent 10.7s, bonus!!

Bananaman

While I may be seeking a .22 in the future I have no intention of giving up any of the centrefire disciplines I have shot so far.

There are always more nickel plated sissy pistols out there to be beaten by the trusty Glock.

B'Man

rrpc

G17 wrote: »

Blasting me pecs and consistent 10.7s, bonus!!

Only 10.7's?

You've actually made a good choice there G17. I'm regretting that I didn't buy an air pistol when I was starting off because it's so much more useful for training than even a .22.

Cost of ammo is negligible, targets likewise and as far as ranges go, well 10m is so easy to find anywhere.

Generally the weight is about the same (or in the case of the IZH; heavier), the only difference is the trigger weight being lighter, but not having good trigger control shows up very quickly at that range.

All in all, the air pistol is probably one of the best training tools out there and everyone interested in pistol shooting should have one, no matter what else they have.

daveob007

G17 wrote: »

I consider mine a proper competition gun. I shoot bullseye well. I don't remember having an embarrassing score at PPC when I did it for the first time. I shoot it one handed.

The guy who owned it before me bought a 210 and still can't hit anything. I'm a big Austrian unmentionable fan (on my third one) and it's not really helpful when people post on a public forum that one type of firearm or another isn't a competition gun.

If people aren't competitive with their Austrians, please don't blame the gun (not a dig at you personally daveob007).

fair enough on that,just that i was advised to try and get something else,
i might just keep it untill told otherwise cos i actually like it and it never jams or misfires (important in competition).
I used a laser bore sighter last week to adjust the sights and it made a big difference 6 bulls out of 10 shots at 25 yards.
is that competition material??
anyway just posted this thread to see if subs will be allowed.