Laser Chip and Pin issue : Money debited in error

RangeR

Hi guys,

Just a quick one. I'm being passed from department to department by my bank. I want this sorted today. Looking for advice.

Was in my local convenience store yesterday. Tried to purchase some supplies with my c'n'p Laser. The transaction was declined. Store person also showed me the display. Slight embarrassment but I'll live. I then paid in cash.

Today I noticed that the money was actually taken out of my account yesterday for that same amount. I want the money back in my account today. It's mine.

/me throws toys out of pram

I rang my branch and they told me to fook off as I'm not a business customer. They said I had to ring their phone banking. I told them that they took money from me and want it sorted now. She said "tuff", in a round about way but not nice.

I rang the phone banking. They said that their system were down. I'm getting close to boiling point as I was waiting on hold for quite a while.

I rang the branch that I live close to, in Naas. They were much more helpful Probably because I have a business account with them too. they saw the error. They said they won't be able to confirm the location of the purchase until tomorrow. they will then contact Laser and see if they have the money, then Laser will liaise with my original "local" branch. In all, might take 2 or 3 days.

I told her that, considering the way I was treated when I rang my Dublin 1 local branch, I don't care what steps they have to take. I want my money NOW!!!!.

She said no.

What are my options?
What do Laser guidelines state about money taken in error
What do Chip and Pin guidelines say about money taken in error?

I want to be fully aware of my rights before I ring them back again at 2pm.

TIA.

EDIT : I know it's petty but I'm moving my accounts today to a different bank. And yes, I know they are "all the same" but I'm voting with my feet on this one "after 15 years of loyal service".

Saruman

Quickest thing to do is contact the shop maybe?
It is probably easier for them to put it back on the card than the bank take it from the shop bank account.

Cabaal

You won't get your refund today, same as your laser payment isn't taken the same day you use it.

Banks have timeliness for money transfers so there is no way in hell you'll get it back today so just focus on getting it back in a reasonable time frame such as 3-5 days. (yes this is a very reasonable timeframe for a refund)

Don't get irate with bank staff you won't get anywhere, stay calm yes your pissed but shouting etc will not make things easier

RangeR

Cheers. I should have also said that I am now doing this on point of principal and want to see how easy it is to rectify a situation when something goes wrong, without having to go to the shop. It's not the shops fault. Their machine said payment declined. I don't see how it's anything to do with the shop at this point.


So far it's all in favour of the banks and not the customer [again, when something goes wrong]


I've looked at here, here and here but not seeing much information on fraudulent transactions or transactions in error.

RangeR

Cabaal wrote: »

You won't get your refund today, same as your laser payment isn't taken the same day you use it.

Banks have timeliness for money transfers so there is no way in hell you'll get it back today so just focus on getting it back in a reasonable time frame such as 3-5 days. (yes this is a very reasonable timeframe for a refund)

Don't get irate with bank staff you won't get anywhere, stay calm yes your pissed but shouting etc will not make things easier

Cheers cabal. I may be [overly] furious on the inside but always calm over the phone with them as I know it's not the reps fault.

However, if I owed them money they would be straight on to me with demanding letters.

It's just not roight.

dudara

Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions

dudara

GerardKeating

RangeR wrote: »

Hi guys,

Just a quick one. I'm being passed from department to department by my bank. I want this sorted today. Looking for advice.

Was in my local convenience store yesterday. Tried to purchase some supplies with my c'n'p Laser. The transaction was declined. Store person also showed me the display. Slight embarrassment but I'll live. I then paid in cash.

Today I noticed that the money was actually taken out of my account yesterday for that same amount. I want the money back in my account today. It's mine.

/me throws toys out of pram

I rang my branch and they told me to fook off as I'm not a business customer. They said I had to ring their phone banking. I told them that they took money from me and want it sorted now. She said "tuff", in a round about way but not nice.

I rang the phone banking. They said that their system were down. I'm getting close to boiling point as I was waiting on hold for quite a while.

I rang the branch that I live close to, in Naas. They were much more helpful Probably because I have a business account with them too. they saw the error. They said they won't be able to confirm the location of the purchase until tomorrow. they will then contact Laser and see if they have the money, then Laser will liaise with my original "local" branch. In all, might take 2 or 3 days.

I told her that, considering the way I was treated when I rang my Dublin 1 local branch, I don't care what steps they have to take. I want my money NOW!!!!.

She said no.

What are my options?
What do Laser guidelines state about money taken in error
What do Chip and Pin guidelines say about money taken in error?

I want to be fully aware of my rights before I ring them back again at 2pm.

TIA.

EDIT : I know it's petty but I'm moving my accounts today to a different bank. And yes, I know they are "all the same" but I'm voting with my feet on this one "after 15 years of loyal service".

Your bank might have actually authorsed the transaction, but the response did not arrive back to the machine in time, so as far as your bank is concerned, it is waiting for the machine to completed the transaction, when this does not happend after 48/72 hours, the funds will return to your account. In this case the fault is not with your bank, but the bank that processes transacions for the merchant.

RangeR

GerardKeating wrote: »

Your bank might have actually authorsed the transaction, but the response did not arrive back to the machine in time, so as far as your bank is concerned, it is waiting for the machine to completed the transaction, when this does not happend after 48/72 hours, the funds will return to your account. In this case the fault is not with your bank, but the bank that processes transacions for the merchant.

Thank you for that. The transaction DID take a long time to decline. Normally it's a successful 5 second wait.

However, the point remains. It's not MY problem that the system messed up the transaction. Being a developer, my bank shouldn't have released funds until the destination bank acknowledged same. If this is in fact the case.

3DataModem

Gerard Keating is right. This is probably a timeout issue. If the bank waited for the recieving bank to acknowledge reciept then the laser system wouldn't work... you'd need to wait days for transactions to complete.

"You're a developer" so should understand that a multiple million-user real time transaction system sometimes times out (e.g. If your bank, or the shops phone line, or something else, craps out.

If you are not willing to accept this possibility with a Laser card then use cash.

GerardKeating

RangeR wrote: »

Thank you for that. The transaction DID take a long time to decline. Normally it's a successful 5 second wait.

However, the point remains. It's not MY problem that the system messed up the transaction. Being a developer, my bank shouldn't have released funds until the destination bank acknowledged same. If this is in fact the case.

It's also not your banks fault, (unless they are also the acquirer for the merchant). They issued they auth to the merchant and the merchant has 48 hours to present the transaction.

RangeR

My bank credited my account today. I'm relatively happy with the outcome other than the rep in my local branch in Dublin 1.

Thank you for the insights.