recreational drugs

thebaz

did anyone read the piece in the Sunday Tribune , where Neil Francis said he played with an internation who used heroin , and 2 others who used coke. I believe the coke bit, but heroin ??
I played rugby in America, where there was a lot more drug usage , coke and pot , but in Ireland i encountered very little, the odd bit of hash.
How could an international train to the required level, and then space out to heroin .... sorry can't believe this

amacachi

Heroin use doesn't always mean homelessness etc. With a steady clean supply it can have minimal impact on one's life, at least for a period of time.

Slumlion

thebaz wrote: »

did anyone read the piece in the Sunday Tribune , where Neil Francis said he played with an internation who used heroin , and 2 others who used coke. I believe the coke bit, but heroin ??
I played rugby in America, where there was a lot more drug usage , coke and pot , but in Ireland i encountered very little, the odd bit of hash.
How could an international train to the required level, and then space out to heroin .... sorry can't believe this

Why do you not believe heroin? Heroin and coke are both class A filth,that rots your body and brain.
People can take heroin without walking around like a matchstick with their eyes closed.

anonymous_joe

Alcohol's about as dangerous as most drugs, heroin's far and away the most dangerous drug to take, but in terms of damage, cocaine and alcohol both do a similar amount to each other (lots).

It's not at all unbelievable, drug users come in all walks of life, I know perfectly normal middle-class people who've taken lots of hard drugs at various times in their life, and while it's hardly something I'd do, it's something any of us could do.

thebaz

I'm just surprised , I have never heard of any other athlete taking heroin, as the article says many top atheletes in other sports including rugby, take coke.

anonymous_joe

thebaz wrote: »

I'm just surprised , I have never heard of any other athlete taking heroin, as the article says many top atheletes in other sports including rugby, take coke.

Pre-testing, you could probably take whatever the fcuk you wanted. Add to that, if you;re wealthy and vaguely sanitary you could avoid the worst of the associated problems.

amacachi

thebaz wrote: »

I'm just surprised , I have never heard of any other athlete taking heroin, as the article says many top atheletes in other sports including rugby, take coke.

Coke is more "glamorous" so will suit the ego of certain people moreso than heroin.

thebaz

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Pre-testing, you could probably take whatever the fcuk you wanted. Add to that, if you;re wealthy and vaguely sanitary you could avoid the worst of the associated problems.

I can understand for Junior rugby, but the intensity of international rugby , even back then , and the training ..... maybe it was just a once off

anonymous_joe

thebaz wrote: »

I can understand for Junior rugby, but the intensity of international rugby , even back then , and the training ..... maybe it was just a once off

I read an extract from Axel's autobiography where he said he came down to his first Ireland training session drunk not having slept. He also talked about how the Munster lads made sure they went in even harder on the Ulster player in the same position as Foley, who was well known for being very sober and working hard on his fitness. This was somehow felt to be cheating.

I've come across a few professionals round and about, and most of them have been absolutely rat-arsed drunk. That's really really really unhealthy, and they manage it fine (as do most of us.)

OldJay

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Alcohol's about as dangerous as most drugs, heroin's far and away the most dangerous drug to take, but in terms of damage, cocaine and alcohol both do a similar amount to each other (lots)

Alcohol is not illegal.

anonymous_joe

Justind wrote: »

Alcohol is not illegal.

I know.

That doesn't mean it's good for you. As I said, from a purely sporting perspective, prior to drug testing, alcohol and cocaine would both have been similarly bad for you, and heroin worse than both.

I'm not discussing the morals of drug-use, this is a rugby forum. We're speculating on whether an international could have used heroin and still played international rugby.

Four-Percent

Justind wrote: »

Alcohol is not illegal.

and? Pills containing BZP weren't illegal until a few months ago, and they were widely regarded as being more dangerous than E pills. Your point is invalid.

RuggieBear

your signature is too big.

change it before you post in rugby again.

Four-Percent

RuggieBear wrote: »

your signature is too big.

change it before you post in rugby again.

All the subtlety of a sledghehammer

Persiancowboy

I can, with 100% certainty, name one of the 3 that Francis is alluding to in his article and what's more I believe most of my fellow Limerick men could do the same. Given the endemic use of class A drugs in this country one would have to be seriously deluded not to think that there are members of the rugby-playing fraternity who are not caught up in this.

I'm not a huge fan of Francis, either as a journalist or particularly as a player but that was a brave article to write and the subject deserves to be debated.

Aidric

Pretty ironic that Francis should put this piece out given that a lot of his articles sound like they've come from the pen of a coke addled misanthrope.

OldJay

Four-Percent wrote: »

and? Pills containing BZP weren't illegal until a few months ago, and they were widely regarded as being more dangerous than E pills. Your point is invalid.

Of course its relevant :rolleyes:

If a substance is banned from use in sport or entirely illegal in a civilian judicial sense, there will be appropriate action taken by an appropriate body if a person is caught using.
If a player has an alcohol abuse problem, there is no legal aspect involved unless they transgress other laws.

Micky Dolenz

Justind wrote: »

Of course its relevant :rolleyes:

If a substance is banned from use in sport or entirely illegal in a civilian judicial sense, there will be appropriate action taken by an appropriate body if a person is caught using.
If a player has an alcohol abuse problem, there is no legal aspect involved unless they transgress other laws.

I agree, if a pro sport person is drinking a few beers every night while watching tv, he breaks no civil laws, (he may break club law). Now if they were taking a few lines of coke or shotting up, he is breaking the law.

As already stated here and I agree, just because someone drinks, takes drugs does not mean they are addicts. I think the legality of a subtance is very relevant.

topper75

What I don't understand is, whether you like him or not, Francis is not a fool: what did he expect to happen after his 'revelation'?

- players themselves to step forward ?
- other journos to do more digging and reveal what he wouldn't?

I would like to get into his head on this one.

I take a drink myself and am not a diehard puritan. But I'm disappointed by the story as, for me, elite sporting endeavour is the very antithesis of all substance abuse, in terms of mentality required and setting example.

Riskymove

topper75 wrote: »

I take a drink myself and am not a diehard puritan. But I'm disappointed by the story as, for me, elite sporting endeavour is the very antithesis of all substance abuse, in terms of mentality required and setting example.

well i think that is the key point in such stories. Growing up we dream of being able to play at a such a level, whatever the sport, and then we see people throwing it all away...it is hard to understand..think George Best!

but at the same time it has a lot to do with our society (and that of UK which is basically the same) where drinking and socialising is such an entrenched part of our lives...and then add in the money and hangers-on etc to young people...its inevitable that some will get mixed up in these things

gcgirl

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I agree, if a pro sport person is drinking a few beers every night while watching tv, he breaks no civil laws, (he may break club law). Now if they were taking a few lines of coke or shotting up, he is breaking the law.

As already stated here and I agree, just because someone drinks, takes drugs does not mean they are addicts. I think the legality of a subtance is very relevant.

Drink is IMO worse than any other drug, It causes more crap at the weekends though anybody can get their hands on it!
Any pro should refrain from drinking, it was not that long ago with my self and i'm far from being a pro i had to along with the team i played for abstain from drink witch lasted basically a whole summer till we were knocked out of the competition!

JC 2K3

Heroin has a (deserved in the grand scheme of things) reputation for being incredibly harmful, but it's not physically harmful in itself - in fact, it, like most opiates, is very safe when taken in pure form.

The problem with it stems from its addiction potential, which is a major issue when the less well off get addicted. It's also not likely to be pure on the streets.

Well off addicts are much less of a problem, and with some purpose/goals in life, such as an international rugby career, one is much less likely to get addicted in the first place.

So personally, I'm not that surprised and doubt it was a regular thing anyway.

Micky Dolenz

gcgirl wrote: »

Drink is IMO worse than any other drug, It causes more crap at the weekends though anybody can get their hands on it!
Any pro should refrain from drinking, it was not that long ago with my self and i'm far from being a pro i had to along with the team i played for abstain from drink witch lasted basically a whole summer till we were knocked out of the competition!

We are not talking about substances in the general public sense, we are talking about pro rugby players taking banned substances. There's nothing wrong with a player drinking after a game,(heineken,bulmers, gunniess etc) because it's not a banned substance. Taking narcotics is different because it is banned.

JC 2K3

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We are not talking about substances in the general public sense, we are talking about pro rugby players taking banned substances. There's nothing wrong with a player drinking after a game,(heineken,bulmers, gunniess etc) because it's not a banned substance. Taking narcotics is different because it is banned.

Are you just talking about people in general or rugby players?

The thread doesn't appear to be about legality, and not really about morality, more the practicality of a rugby player taking heroin.

dub_skav

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Are you just talking about people in general or rugby players?

The thread doesn't appear to be about legality, and not really about morality, more the practicality of a rugby player taking heroin.

I agree with this view. This doesn't appear to be a thread about legality, more about practicality.

The OP asked was it possible for an International rugby player to be a drug user. others have stated that as with alcohol unless you are a drug abuser you should be able to play sport at any level.
As you grow older or use more of any substance you will be less able

Micky Dolenz

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Are you just talking about people in general or rugby players?

The thread doesn't appear to be about legality, and not really about morality, more the practicality of a rugby player taking heroin.

I'm talking about rugby players.

If a rugby player drinks a few beers every week, it would be fine in my opinion. Now if he were to snort a few lines at the weekend or shot up, this is completey wrong, for many reasons but the main reason would be the player failing a drugs test if it were to happen.

Because someone takes drugs or drinks does not make them addicts. For a sports person to allow themselves have banned substances in their system is very foolish.

gcgirl

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We are not talking about substances in the general public sense, we are talking about pro rugby players taking banned substances. There's nothing wrong with a player drinking after a game,(heineken,bulmers, gunniess etc) because it's not a banned substance. Taking narcotics is different because it is banned.

Drink still screws up a players body regardless, it may not be banned but still any player should abstain from it!
IMO drink does as much damage to a players body as coke,hash,cigs or bloody heroin!

JC 2K3

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

the main reason would be the player failing a drugs test if it were to happen.

Would they actually test for heroin?

It'd hardly be a performance enhancer...

Micky Dolenz

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Would they actually test for heroin?

It'd hardly be a performance enhancer...

neirther is hash/weed.

banned substance lists include many different chemicals. I would be surpised if opium and morphine weren't on it.

itsallaboutheL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

neirther is hash/weed.

banned substance lists include many different chemicals. I would be surpised if opium and morphine weren't on it.

They are

thebaz

dub_skav wrote: »

I agree with this view. This doesn't appear to be a thread about legality, more about practicality.

The OP asked was it possible for an International rugby player to be a drug user.

thats my point , just curious how any international could take heroin .
I have heard stories of people taking a line or 2 of coke before a game (wrong IMO), i have witnessed people smokin a joint after a game like a beer (ok IMO).

But taking heroin, would be like taking 2 sleeping tablets (except worse) before kick -off.

American football and baseball which have a history of drug usage, its all coke and weed, never heard of heroin.

Just surprised.

Hugh_C

I wonder if those players were taking heroin as a painkiller or as a recreational buzz?

Nobody has mentioned nicotine yet, more addictive than heroin or any other class A drug, and possibly more damaging in the long run, since it's tolerated in society.

I knew a lot of players who were smokers when I was playing, I presume things haven't changed that much.

shanagarry

Hugh_C wrote: »

I knew a lot of players who were smokers when I was playing, I presume things haven't changed that much.

I met a lot of the Lions squad out after a test and I was shocked at the number of smokers among them, given the elite level they are playing at. Surely it must affect their performance? And most of them were backs, who would probably benefit most from increased lung capacity.

topper75

shanagarry wrote: »

I met a lot of the Lions squad out after a test and I was shocked at the number of smokers among them, given the elite level they are playing at. Surely it must affect their performance? And most of them were backs, who would probably benefit most from increased lung capacity.

Jaysus! Scouts honour on that?

Lenguy

Rugby was a different game back in the 80's and 90's, both on and off the field, and I guess we have to take Neil Francis's recent article for what it is. The social element to the game was as much part of the game itself and a lot of drinking (and probably drug taking) took place, but the real debate should centre around what influence drugs plays in rugby today.

Without naming individuals, there are many rugby heroes in green, red, and blue, who are loved by the thousands of kids (and big kids) due to the recent popularity and success in Irish rugby. Many of these heroes are young guys, and we all know what it's like to be a young guy (or gal). However, one would imagine that there are IRFU structures in place and personal discipline surrounding the issue of drugs. A few drinks with the lads should not be condemned, but drug taking (and all that comes with it) is a totally different issue, and whatever about the legalities, is less socially acceptable, particularly given the players' status and resulting responsibility.

As a huge fan of Irish rugby, I would be very disappointed with the players and IRFU if this was not nipped in the bud, because the PR damage to the game here could be huge, and recovery would be tough. We have a lot to lose.

OldJay

shanagarry wrote: »

I met a lot of the Lions squad out after a test and I was shocked at the number of smokers among them, given the elite level they are playing at. Surely it must affect their performance? And most of them were backs, who would probably benefit most from increased lung capacity.

Loads of sports have 'party-smokers' taking part in them. Always have done. Always will.
Having a cig on a night out is no worse than sitting in a traffic jam with the windows open in your car.

OldJay

Lenguy wrote: »

As a huge fan of Irish rugby, I would be very disappointed with the players and IRFU if this was not nipped in the bud, because the PR damage to the game here could be huge, and recovery would be tough. We have a lot to lose.

There are drug testing programmes in place. There was nothing of even the fractional degree in place when Neil Francis was playing.

Have you seen any positive test results out there? No.
'Bud' nipped.

Webbs

Justind wrote: »

There are drug testing programmes in place. There was nothing of even the fractional degree in place when Neil Francis was playing.

Have you seen any positive test results out there? No.
'Bud' nipped.

Are you saying that a player would have been clean when he was say for arguments sake at Ulster and decided that when he moved to an English rugby club that they were so much more lax with their drug testing that he felt safe to take a banned substance.
Also do you think a club like Bath that can have 5 players suspended for taking drugs or failing to take a test is alone in having players taking drugs?

OldJay

Webbs wrote: »

Are you saying that a player would have been clean when he was say for arguments sake at Ulster and decided that when he moved to an English rugby club that they were so much more lax with their drug testing that he felt safe to take a banned substance

I wouldn't know and, keeping up with the presumptuous nature of all this guessing, I'd say neither would you.

Webbs wrote: »

Also do you think a club like Bath that can have 5 players suspended for taking drugs or failing to take a test is alone in having players taking drugs?

This, again, is presumption.

D.U.M.B

If an athlete uses cannabis to ease the pain of training that shouldn't be a problem. According to most it would be anti-performance enhancing. Michael Phelps comes to mind, all that gold and he enjoys the herb

Micky Dolenz

D.U.M.B wrote: »

If an athlete uses cannabis to ease the pain of training that shouldn't be a problem. According to most it would be anti-performance enhancing. Michael Phelps comes to mind, all that gold and he enjoys the herb

Maybe Ronnie O Sullivan would disagree with you.

D.U.M.B

Maybe he would, will find out next time he is on boards

itsallaboutheL

D.U.M.B wrote: »

If an athlete uses cannabis to ease the pain of training that shouldn't be a problem. According to most it would be anti-performance enhancing. Michael Phelps comes to mind, all that gold and he enjoys the herb

Your Username is quite appropriate.

wixfjord

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Your Username is quite appropriate.

Wow thats a great argument you put forward there.

In my opinion, its nobodys business whether rugby players are doing drugs such as weed and cocaine, becuase they are in no way performance enhancing, and in fact usually effect performance negatively, and are a lifestyle choice, the same as alcohol or cigarettes. Im not going to start a drugs debate, but in my opinion, some illegal drugs can actually be less bad for you than binge drinking, if you know what you are taking.

Micky Dolenz

wixfjord wrote: »

Wow thats a great argument you put forward there.

In my opinion, its nobodys business whether rugby players are doing drugs such as weed and cocaine, becuase they are in no way performance enhancing, and in fact usually effect performance negatively, and are a lifestyle choice, the same as alcohol or cigarettes. Im not going to start a drugs debate, but in my opinion, some illegal drugs can actually be less bad for you than binge drinking, if you know what you are taking.

I see your point but disagree. I support a certain team, if one of our star players goes on a bender of coke and weed and gets a long ban, it becomes my business and the business of the team set up and all supporters.

Now if the same guy goes on a bender with booze, shows up for training hungover, has to take a random drug test and passes. Then I won't hear about and won't care.

regardless of what we think about drugs and booze in general life, as a pro sports player drugs on the banned list have to be a no go area.

wixfjord

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I see your point but disagree. I support a certain team, if one of our star players goes on a bender of coke and weed and gets a long ban, it becomes my business and the business of the team set up and all supporters.

Now if the same guy goes on a bender with booze, shows up for training hungover, has to take a random drug test and passes. Then I won't hear about and won't care.

regardless of what we think about drugs and booze in general life, as a pro sports player drugs on the banned list have to be a no go area.

What if he goes on a week long bender of booze and has a drunken injury, or goes drink driving. What you say is just picking and choosing scenarios. I think drugs like that shouldne be on the banned list, and shouldnt be tested for. If a player gets caught with a kilo of weed in his boot fair enough, but from what you say, a player could drink 15 pints and come into training the next day to no repercussions, or smoke one joint, get caught for a random drug test the next day and be banned. That to me doesnt make sense.

D.U.M.B

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Your Username is quite appropriate.

Thanks

itsallaboutheL

wixfjord wrote: »

What if he goes on a week long bender of booze and has a drunken injury, or goes drink driving. What you say is just picking and choosing scenarios. I think drugs like that shouldne be on the banned list, and shouldnt be tested for. If a player gets caught with a kilo of weed in his boot fair enough, but from what you say, a player could drink 15 pints and come into training the next day to no repercussions, or smoke one joint, get caught for a random drug test the next day and be banned. That to me doesnt make sense.

It's the Legalities of it, Alcohol is a banned subtance in competetion in alot of sports too.

Micky Dolenz

wixfjord wrote: »

What if he goes on a week long bender of booze and has a drunken injury, or goes drink driving. What you say is just picking and choosing scenarios. I think drugs like that shouldne be on the banned list, and shouldnt be tested for. If a player gets caught with a kilo of weed in his boot fair enough, but from what you say, a player could drink 15 pints and come into training the next day to no repercussions, or smoke one joint, get caught for a random drug test the next day and be banned. That to me doesnt make sense.

I hear you, but in the context of pro sportspeople, drinking a few pints is ok because it is legal and not on a banned substance list. All narcotics are illegal and are rightly on that list. this isn't/wasn't meant to be a for or against drug debate.
Bottom line this lads do a job with rules, they know the rules, if they break them, there are harsh penalties.

Micky Dolenz

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

It's the Legalities of it, Alcohol is a banned subtance in competetion in alot of sports too.

Like what?

we are not talking about being drunk or high at work (on sports arena) but traces of substance in blood test.

itsallaboutheL

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