Opening an online business

ben2k9

Hi.

So, I want to open an online business for the sale of products that I would be importing.

At this time I have nothing started. What do I need to open an online business and import products from abroad? Do I need to register a business with the government? I have no clue about this what-so-ever.

Now for the website part of this I want to go with a system that has a good 'cart' such as e commerce. I want a package that will include hosting, domain, cart, email and web building all in one as well as it being in ease to use as I would be working on it. I don't want to spend over 100 Euro or 20 a month. Can it be done?:S

Thanks. :cool:

sdanseo

To carry on a business you need to register with the Companies Registration Office. You can register as a sole trader but this means you will stand to lose, personally, any monies lost by your business activities. In short, if it fcuks up, they get your house.

You can also register as a limited company - to do that you'll need to draw up, or have drawn up, rticles and memorandum of association etc. www.cro.ie

Starting a business on €100 sounds like a tall order. A decent website with just a few pages would cost anywhere around €1000 to build professionally.

Good luck :P

100 Euro for a website ? Keep on saving, you won't even get a teenager to make you a frontpage website for that price.

What people need to understand is that just because the business is online, it's still a business that needs capital just like any other business. Expecting to get a website for 100 Euro is beyond preposterous.

I'm expecting to pay between 3 - 5K for my site.

sdonn

sdonn wrote: »

To carry on a business you need to register with the Companies Registration Office. You can register as a sole trader but this means you will stand to lose, personally, any monies lost by your business activities. In short, if it fcuks up, they get your house.

They can still get your house if you are a Ltd company. Depends how negligent the actions have been.

Osgoodisgood

ben2k9 wrote: »

Now for the website part of this I want to go with a system that has a good 'cart' such as e commerce. I want a package that will include hosting, domain, cart, email and web building all in one as well as it being in ease to use as I would be working on it. I don't want to spend over 100 Euro or 20 a month. Can it be done?

No it can't and if someone tells you that they have a product such as the one you describe for €100 I suggest you slowly back out of the room while making no eye contact.

W!zard

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

No it can't and if someone tells you that they have a product such as the one you describe for €100 I suggest you slowly back out of the room while making no eye contact.

I agree with that statement too!

The world online is not as simple as that, Hosting / Domains are renewals, there is not one off price. You could get a cheap host and domain price for one year just shy of 100 euro but then you will need to look at an Open Source CMS system + Cart system, this part takes the skill to merge the programs together. And you will need to live with the Ads that come with it in the free versions, otherwise you will need to pay and chances are it end up costing a few thousend. Or go with a web designer (costing from a few hundred to a few thousend, depending on the custom work) to use existing systems, code it togethere, buy a Template for 60 Euro on top of that and your online shop is now ready.

And lets not forget about Marketing / Advertising budgets .. Postage (I guess your selling products from the site), & beyond PayPal Merchant Accounts, you will need to pay setup fees to do online transactions.

It will take anywhere from 3+ months to get everything setup with Website / Merchant, to 10 months if you want to take better care of the custom work, depending on how much your selling. It will take a few months for Google + others to pick up your website through search engines and whatever your selling, it is going to be a heated market so you will need to be cost aware of your products, positioning of your target markets and offer plenty of "NEW" compared to your competitors to stand a chance.

Best wishes with it, and as you can see from above, this is good advice which you have got for free.

NullZer0

sdonn wrote: »

A decent website with just a few pages would cost anywhere around €1000 to build professionally.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I'd say a bit more

R3al

sdonn wrote: »

You can register as a sole trader but this means you will stand to lose, personally,

You can also register as a limited company - to do that you'll need to draw up, or have drawn up, rticles and memorandum of association etc. www.cro.ie

Registering as a limited company does not necessarily protect your personal assets as Banks will often ask you to guarantee a loan for your company with your own home etc.

spartacus93

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055637393

ben2k9

why would 100 euro be a small order when there are sites out there where you can get templates, hosting, bulding, cart, etc for free such as yola?

do i have to register as a business? i mean this is going to be pretty small scale. could i not register as a trader or something?

Well who is going to do it for you ? You or an expert ?

If it's small scale, and your product is generic (and not premium), why not sell on eBay and take advantage of a platform that gives you access to millions of people already ?

ben2k9

sorry

i just dont understand why there are companies out there offering these packages for 9.99 a month like http://www.iccmhosting.ie/

ben2k9

ben2k9 wrote: »

why would 100 euro be a small order when there are sites out there where you can get templates, hosting, bulding, cart, etc for free such as yola?

do i have to register as a business? i mean this is going to be pretty small scale. could i not register as a trader or something?

I think some of the posters are a bit naive to the costs of web design. Designers in ireland charge lawyers rates because they have been able to, that wont last. I remember putting a freelance project up and getting quotes back at 200 euro for 2 hours work from freelance designers. That kind of ridiculous fee just upsets me. People in ireland need to get real with the prices they are charging. I went in to a restaurant in town the other day and they had a "credit crunch lunch" advertised for 9.95 (bowl of pasta). Give me a break.

Ranting aside, I got this site done for 15,000 peso (about 250euro). www.sansonanddunne.com . Granted there is no backend to it, what you see is what you get, just a simple site to present the company if you are looking for it. But it does the job I need it for and it is nice and presentable. You could get yours done if it was very simple etc for less then that, by like you say buying a template and put a shopping cart on there.

Register a trading name in the CRO office, and setup as a Sole Trader ( was 30euro when I did it ten years ago).

Get your domain name and hosting package, and I reckon you could start this for 250euro in total. When you get some cash in, put it into improving your site etc.

Or you could think smart, and see if you have any mates in the business of web design and put a proposal to them that if they look after you now you will look after them in the future.
I started my first business with a printer and an old laptop. I got my mate to do the graphics for me and help with a website, he did it for free and he still works for me now 10 years later

ben2k9

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some of the posters are a bit naive to the costs of web design. Designers in ireland charge lawyers rates because they have been able to, that wont last. I remember putting a freelance project up and getting quotes back at 200 euro for 2 hours work from freelance designers. That kind of ridiculous fee just upsets me. People in ireland need to get real with the prices they are charging. I went in to a restaurant in town the other day and they had a "credit crunch lunch" advertised for 9.95 (bowl of pasta). Give me a break.

Ranting aside, I got this site done for 15,000 peso (about 250euro). www.sansonanddunne.com . Granted there is no backend to it, what you see is what you get, just a simple site to present the company if you are looking for it. But it does the job I need it for and it is nice and presentable. You could get yours done if it was very simple etc for less then that, by like you say buying a template and put a shopping cart on there.

Register a trading name in the CRO office, and setup as a Sole Trader ( was 30euro when I did it ten years ago).

Get your domain name and hosting package, and I reckon you could start this for 250euro in total. When you get some cash in, put it into improving your site etc.

Or you could think smart, and see if you have any mates in the business of web design and put a proposal to them that if they look after you now you will look after them in the future.
I started my first business with a printer and an old laptop. I got my mate to do the graphics for me and help with a website, he did it for free and he still works for me now 10 years later

Thats what I'm talking about!!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some of the posters are a bit naive to the costs of web design. Designers in ireland charge lawyers rates because they have been able to, that wont last. I remember putting a freelance project up and getting quotes back at 200 euro for 2 hours work from freelance designers. That kind of ridiculous fee just upsets me. People in ireland need to get real with the prices they are charging. I went in to a restaurant in town the other day and they had a "credit crunch lunch" advertised for 9.95 (bowl of pasta). Give me a break.

Ranting aside, I got this site done for 15,000 peso (about 250euro). www.sansonanddunne.com . Granted there is no backend to it, what you see is what you get, just a simple site to present the company if you are looking for it. But it does the job I need it for and it is nice and presentable. You could get yours done if it was very simple etc for less then that, by like you say buying a template and put a shopping cart on there.

Register a trading name in the CRO office, and setup as a Sole Trader ( was 30euro when I did it ten years ago).

Get your domain name and hosting package, and I reckon you could start this for 250euro in total. When you get some cash in, put it into improving your site etc.

Or you could think smart, and see if you have any mates in the business of web design and put a proposal to them that if they look after you now you will look after them in the future.
I started my first business with a printer and an old laptop. I got my mate to do the graphics for me and help with a website, he did it for free and he still works for me now 10 years later

I agree that the prices are considerably higher than other countries and that they are expensive, absolutely no doubt about that.

Did you live in the country where you got the site made ? How have you found support of dealing with these foreign companies ? Are there foreign companies out there that can provide the same sort of support as poppin into the web designer down the road ? Do you think start up companies can afford to take that risk ?

I'm not trying to drill you, I'm just looking for your opinion and experience of how you have found the above.

ben2k9

I just downloaded the RBN1 - Application for registration of a business name by an individual from CRO.IE. I'm going to fill that out and send it off. Ill be a registered business then, yes?

Where do I go to get a sellers permit?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree that the prices are considerably higher than other countries and that they are expensive, absolutely no doubt about that.

Did you live in the country where you got the site made ? How have you found support of dealing with these foreign companies ? Are there foreign companies out there that can provide the same sort of support as poppin into the web designer down the road ? Do you think start up companies can afford to take that risk ?

I'm not trying to drill you, I'm just looking for your opinion and experience of how you have found the above.

I spend a lot of time in that country yes. Your points are valid, but it all depends on the complexity of your site. The OP's site sounds like its very simple so shouldnt need a whole lot of support in the beginning.
If you have a lot going on on the site and lots of updates and new functions then yes its better to be able to be face to face with your support to make sure they are dedicated enough etc. Its something I would apply over lots of areas not just web design. When you outsource anything its rare that the company you outsource to have the same amount of passion about the project as you will have, and that can be very frustrating.
I think the optimum scenario is actually to get your site designed outside the country and then employ people direct to maintain the site when its up and running that way I think you get the best of both worlds. Obviously its costly to employee people to do that so it would apply more to a company with good investment

blue4ever

Ent,

Go to a site like Elance. You will see numerous companies and individuals bidding for jobs. The prices are very competitive. The response, i find, is excellent.

You do have to have a good look at the portfolio of the people bidding for business, but like meeting people in person - you sometimes get a "feel" right ot wrong for you. And like anything in life - few shisters there. I was sent a 'portfolio' from a company who had included the New York Times Web as one of the sites in their portfolio! When I queried this and suggested that the NYT had their own development team that does their stuff - things went very quiet.

Also - when you fund a job (say in three equal amounts, beginning, middle, end), the money does not go into the developers account - it goes into the
Elance escrow account - only released when you are 100% happy.

I've used them al good bit - always happy.

As a matter of interest: I believe in 'supporting the cause' - of all the stuff i have put up I have never had a bid form an Irish Company! If they bid - I would look at them seriously. If they are not bidding - I can't help support them.

ben2k9

im just going to repost this as i want to get all the registration sorted today


I just downloaded the RBN1 - Application for registration of a business name by an individual from CRO.IE. I'm going to fill that out and send it off. Ill be a registered business then, yes?

Where do I go to get a sellers permit?

Pixelcraft

ben2k9 wrote: »

I just downloaded the RBN1 - Application for registration of a business name by an individual from CRO.IE. I'm going to fill that out and send it off. Ill be a registered business then, yes?

Where do I go to get a sellers permit?

Nope, you'll just have registered a business name. You may not need to register an actual company though, and I don't have a clue what a sellers permit is, or even if they exist in this country.

ben2k9

So when I register my business Ill get a business registration number or a taxpayer ID?

Pixelcraft

ben2k9 wrote: »

So when I register my business Ill get a business registration number or a taxpayer ID?

Read up on it on CRO website, yes you'll have got a registered business number. You seem to be coming with an amircan point of view, best to have a read of what's involved.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I spend a lot of time in that country yes. Your points are valid, but it all depends on the complexity of your site. The OP's site sounds like its very simple so shouldnt need a whole lot of support in the beginning.
If you have a lot going on on the site and lots of updates and new functions then yes its better to be able to be face to face with your support to make sure they are dedicated enough etc. Its something I would apply over lots of areas not just web design. When you outsource anything its rare that the company you outsource to have the same amount of passion about the project as you will have, and that can be very frustrating.
I think the optimum scenario is actually to get your site designed outside the country and then employ people direct to maintain the site when its up and running that way I think you get the best of both worlds. Obviously its costly to employee people to do that so it would apply more to a company with good investment

Good points, definitely ones to think about.

blue4ever wrote:

Ent,

Go to a site like Elance. You will see numerous companies and individuals bidding for jobs. The prices are very competitive. The response, i find, is excellent.

You do have to have a good look at the portfolio of the people bidding for business, but like meeting people in person - you sometimes get a "feel" right ot wrong for you. And like anything in life - few shisters there. I was sent a 'portfolio' from a company who had included the New York Times Web as one of the sites in their portfolio! When I queried this and suggested that the NYT had their own development team that does their stuff - things went very quiet.

Also - when you fund a job (say in three equal amounts, beginning, middle, end), the money does not go into the developers account - it goes into the
Elance escrow account - only released when you are 100% happy.

I've used them al good bit - always happy.

As a matter of interest: I believe in 'supporting the cause' - of all the stuff i have put up I have never had a bid form an Irish Company! If they bid - I would look at them seriously. If they are not bidding - I can't help support them.

Elance is a superb system and I totally agree with it, I think it benefits people who know what they are doing 100% though in terms of jargon etc, I know what I want from a site, I just don't know how to put it in "Web Spec" language for the developers if you get me. Any thoughts on that blue?

blue4ever

Ent.
You spec, they interpret! If you spell out what you want functionally its easy for someone to change this into an actual web site etc.

If you need anything, pm me and i will gladly help.

C

RUDOLF289

ben2k9 wrote: »

Hi.

What do I need to open an online business and import products from abroad?

Thanks. :cool:

Hello Ben2k9,

in relation to importing from abroad, can you advise if your imports come from within the EU or outside the EU.

I can quote you chapter and verse either way, but knowing what you intend to do will narrow it down a small bit.

Important to consider registering for VAT (or not). If you sell goods, the threshold for registering is Euro 75000.00. However, if you are importing and register for VAT, you can claim the VAT back - even if you stay below the threshold.

Also, important to consider registering in the CRO as a sole trader or a Limited Company. You may need to take some advice from an accountant to give you all the pro's and cons.

If you send me a PM with an e-mail address I will e-mail you a document that covers some of the basics of importing (either from other EU member states or from outside the EU).

Best of luck with your venture

StephenM_smc

ben2k9 wrote: »

So, I want to open an online business for the sale of products that I would be importing.

Do you plan to import the products first and then sell them online, or do you plan to make a sale online then order them to be delivered to your customer? If its the first way you will more than likely need to pay upfront unless you can get good credit terms, in order to keep the working capital cost at its lowest. You may need to have some sort of capital to keep the goods flowing until the cash starts coming in.

In relation to a taxpayer ID, you will have to register with Revenue as a self employed person. Take a look at their website, they have some fairly good information about running a business as a sole trader (What you seem to be going for) as well as a company.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/running/registering-tax.html

padocon

Deleted User wrote: »

100 Euro for a website ? Keep on saving, you won't even get a teenager to make you a frontpage website for that price.

What people need to understand is that just because the business is online, it's still a business that needs capital just like any other business. Expecting to get a website for 100 Euro is beyond preposterous.

I'm expecting to pay between 3 - 5K for my site.

5K:eek: Whats your business?

ben2k9 wrote: »

why would 100 euro be a small order when there are sites out there where you can get templates, hosting, bulding, cart, etc for free such as yola?

do i have to register as a business? i mean this is going to be pretty small scale. could i not register as a trader or something?

What scale are you doing this on? Ireland only? Bear in mind that your website is your shop! 100 euro spent on a shop is very little. If you want to succeed get a good professional looking site, it will be your shop!

That 100 euro will only do for a DIY job & in my opinion for an extremely small business who does most of the dealings off-line.

ben2k9 wrote: »

sorry

i just dont understand why there are companies out there offering these packages for 9.99 a month like http://www.iccmhosting.ie/

Thats about normal for the spec. Shop around. The Irish mag PC live compares hosting packs on the back section of the mag each month.

sengann

I don't know why some of you are bulging your eyes at the notion of €5k for a website. I would pay nearly that much just for a logo. This is not being naive about the cost of design, on the contrary, it comes from awareness of the fact that you generally get what you pay for. Good designers/developers mostly charge lawyer rates because of their expertise, and because of the process behind the design. If you just want a stale template website on a slow/unreliable host then base your decisions solely on price. How many potential customers will turn away when they question the trustworthiness of the site? How many customers will remember your brand as distinct from the thousands of other template clones on the web? How many transactions will fail because the website times out when they hit "submit"? Are you going to ask your neighbour's kid for a refund when the E-Commerce cart he built for you gets hacked?

If you are going to the trouble of importing goods, why not go the extra half a mile and inject a personality into your online business. Give it a brand, give it a nice name, visually communicate what your company stands for through a decent web site, speak directly to your users, treat them well with a fast host, give them a positive user experience, and they will come back and they will recommend you to a friend.

The real naivety is the notion that you are saving money by skimping in the short term. If you are an online business, and your products can be bought elsewhere, then you depend on your brand to represent you. If you have no shop front, then you fully depend on your website to sell. So what are you going to do when you get a publicity, a spike of traffic, and your €2 per month web host pulls the plug on your site to ease the strain on their server?

An E-commerce site is not "very simple" - if you listen to El Rifle's advice and try to get this done for less than he paid for an awful static brochureware website from the Philippines, then to me it looks like you are admitting defeat from the word go. If this is just an unimportant side project for you, then by all means, get it out there however you can. But if it is more than that, then have a bit of respect for what you are trying to achieve.

As regards outsourcing to countries with cheaper labour... by all means, if you can find someone reliable enough. There are good designers in every country, and often the advantages to using a cheaper company abroad will outweigh the selection of someone local. But a few questions you need to ask yourself in either case:

• Do the guys understand your company, your brand, your target market, the project spec, and have the expertise to communicate it visually?
• Are the guys just going to churn through your project as quickly as possible to get onto the next one?
• Do you have enough technical knowledge to know whether or not they're just telling you what you want to hear?
• How much of a headache will you end up with from investing so much time and energy into getting this done as cheaply as possible?
• Is there a phone number you can ring / a door you can bang on if things go horribly wrong?

Just as there are good designers, there are cowboys everywhere, in Ireland, in the Philippines, on eLance. You could get lucky on your first try and find some great guys who do everything right for a super low price. Word of mouth referrals are better if you know anyone who has been through this and has a website you like, but eLance is fine too if you are on a tight budget. If you're not on a tight budget and are aiming for success, then you should rethink your attitude. Still, at this point, if you genuinely don't understand the difference between what the likes of Yola/ICCM are offering and what you should be getting when you pay more, then you need to speak to some people with a better understanding of internet business.

It's the difference between selling your product out of the back of a van in Ballymun or opening up a department store in Grafton St. Either of these options can work fine, you just need to be aware of your target market and where you want to be in that spectrum. And for the record, €5k is nowhere near the high end... you're still in a stall on Moore St, relatively speaking. When it comes to E-Commerce, I would be very uncomfortable to launch for less than this, all-in.

I'm sick of Irish people launching businesses that are 100% online, and then meanly skimping on the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING to their business - the web presence. It is not the same thing as starting a chip shop in Tullamore. Check your County Enterprise Board and there is probably a couple of grand there straight away to help you build a better website.

@Padocon

Sengann you make some good points, how about you back that up a bit more by showing some visual examples of web sites and the fundamental differences between them ?

And when you say 5K is still a stall in Moore street for an "all in" site, does "all in" refer to SEO and Internet marketing also ? Or are you talking exclusively about the design of the site ?

And can you recommend an agency or two ?

@Padocon, business is going to be a retail site online.

sengann

sengann wrote: »

I don't know why some of you are bulging your eyes at the notion of €5k for a website.

You are just an overpriced designer trying to convince people they should pay your ridiculous prices. You'll be out of business before you can say "awful static brochureware website"

I have used expensive design companies before. On another project I had a partner spend over 6k on a site only to have to have it stripped down and redone much cheaper because the designers were so know it all about everything they wouldn't follow instructions and make changes. And then when you want a change done you get a bill for a grand ++

Just because you charge a high price doesnt mean you are anymore intelligent then a guy in the philippines. If I can buy a bottle of heineken for a euro in one place, does it mean its better if I pay a fiver for it in ireland?

padocon

Deleted User wrote: »

Sengann you make some good points, how about you back that up a bit more by showing some visual examples of web sites and the fundamental differences between them ?

And when you say 5K is still a stall in Moore street for an "all in" site, does "all in" refer to SEO and Internet marketing also ? Or are you talking exclusively about the design of the site ?

And can you recommend an agency or two ?

@Padocon, business is going to be a retail site online.

Ah, online is Ok. I thought you had an offline business.

Generally I think the amount of money you spend on a site should depend on ones projected profits & previous profits. Then again a site is only something you will spend the most of your money on in the 1st year.

sengann wrote: »

I don't know why some of you are bulging your eyes at the notion of €5k for a website. I would pay nearly that much just for a logo.

It seems to be the OPs job but if it was for an entrepreneur that allready had a job & is just starting a business. 5k is allot to spend on a website when most of business will be done offline. And you also have to invest in a premises too.

You must have a large business.

sengann

Deleted User wrote: »

Sengann you make some good points, how about you back that up a bit more by showing some visual examples of web sites and the fundamental differences between them ?

People have written books on less, but as a starting point, take an extreme example with a well developed brand that everyone knows - Innocent Smoothies. This is not necessarily an example of good web design, but it shows how you can visually communicate your brand through the website. A template approach could not do justice to this individual identity. It is tweaked for search engines. It loads really fast, and it won't go offline if 50 of us click it at once. These guys paid a fortune on their branding, and they paid a fortune on their web strategy. El Rifle might tell them that they got ripped off, they should have got his dude in the Philippines to sort them out.

On a smaller scale, the same process applies. You have an identity, something that makes you different from your competitors, you've done market research, you have an idea of what your audience is. Your website is an extension of your brand. If you're a mechanic with a string of customers, get a template site with your contact information. If you're selling stuff online, don't sell yourself short for the sake of a few hundred quid.

Deleted User wrote: »

And when you say 5K is still a stall in Moore street for an "all in" site, does "all in" refer to SEO and Internet marketing also ? Or are you talking exclusively about the design of the site ?

The coding of your website and its SEO potential are intrinsically linked. If you are getting freelancers, I would get a designer for the design, and a developer for the development. These are two different worlds, and it is rare to find people who can walk between them really well.

Deleted User wrote: »

And can you recommend an agency or two ?

I don't want to mention anyone specific because I don't want it to look like I'm selling something here - I am correcting a few myths and have no vested interest in any of this. Agencies are usually pretty expensive, and I would only recommend them if you're speccing a project for a big company and you want to cover your ass. As an entrepreneur, ideally you should aim to find a top designer with big agency experience, and a ninja coder that you can trust, and build a long term relationship with these guys. If you don't want to have to deal with the headache of going through this, then there are other options.

Deleted User wrote:

You are just an overpriced designer trying to convince people they should pay your ridiculous prices. You'll be out of business before you can say "awful static brochureware website"

Wrong. Don't get sensitive just because your I said website is awful. If you want a detailed critique on why it is so bad, post on the Web Development Board here instead of lashing out bitterly. The short version, just for starters: it is a standard template but an ugly one at that, typos (in the title on every page, no less), it is slow (loads badly too), it is built all in tables and is not valid XHTML, I use Safari and the site doesn't load properly for me... big white blocks where the images should be. I won't even get started on how it is not well primed for search engines. All of these things add up to a big red flag that says "this guy paid €250 for this site and it shows." Might be OK in your case if you don't rely on the site, but for somebody starting an online business that will be selling exclusively through the web, then it is an entirely different story. The reason you can't see this is because you think you're buying a bottle of Heineken. You don't understand the importance of an effective web presence.

As for me going out of business... well you don't have a clue about my situation and I'm not even a designer, but I'll respond to this anyway. I don't have time to explain again why there exists a range of design and development outfits, but it is not going to change. There will always be a market for college kids and guys in the Philippines that can do your website for €300. There will always be a market for the mid-range designers charging €5 - €10k. There will always be a market for the big boys where they start at €50k+. I'll say this once, NONE OF THESE PRICES are "ridiculous"; they cater for DIFFERENT MARKETS. There are cowboys who are ripping you off in every category. In fact, El Rifle, I would go so far as to say that you website was not even worth the €250 you paid for it, and the boys who did it are also cowboys. And then there are good reliable companies in every category. The hard part is knowing how to spot one of the good ones.

The fundamental issue is - if you are a real estate company with an office in town that gets the occasional referral through the web, you can get away with a mickey mouse brochureware site. If you are an online shop that depends fully on your web presence, then you are in a different category.

Deleted User wrote:

I have used expensive design companies before. On another project I had a partner spend over 6k on a site only to have to have it stripped down and redone much cheaper because the designers were so know it all about everything they wouldn't follow instructions and make changes. And then when you want a change done you get a bill for a grand ++

Just because you charge a high price doesnt mean you are anymore intelligent then a guy in the philippines. If I can buy a bottle of heineken for a euro in one place, does it mean its better if I pay a fiver for it in ireland?

Your friends made some poor choices when it came to picking who they worked with, and I could just as easily respond with a thousand horror stories from guys who tried to get the thing done as cheaply as possible and it ended up costing them so much that they should have just done it right to begin with. As I said before, in every bracket there are cowboys and there are reputable guys. And it's not about intelligence, it is about the process, reliability, expertise. By all means, get it done cheaper abroad if you can find the right people to work with.

padocon wrote:

Generally I think the amount of money you spend on a site should depend on ones projected profits & previous profits. Then again a site is only something you will spend the most of your money on in the 1st year.

It seems to be the OPs job but if it was for an entrepreneur that allready had a job & is just starting a business. 5k is allot to spend on a website when most of business will be done offline. And you also have to invest in a premises too.

You must have a large business.

What I said was mostly targeted at the guy who does not have a real shop and has everything online. For the others, who are not relying on the web to generate business, there are still lots of advantages to building an effective web presence, and there is usually money available from the CEB that will help you with this.

gavney

Hi Erifle, just FYI, I have to agree that I had some problems opening your page- it's taking forever to load (I use google chrome btw)

padocon

sengann wrote: »

What I said was mostly targeted at the guy who does not have a real shop and has everything online. For the others, who are not relying on the web to generate business, there are still lots of advantages to building an effective web presence, and there is usually money available from the CEB that will help you with this.

Central entertainment Bureau?

sengann

padocon wrote: »

Central entertainment Bureau?

County Enterprise Board... their support varies from county to county. Dublin one for example is here:

There is currently limited funding for Website Grants.
Funding Terms

• Grant covers 50% of eligible costs up to a maximum of €2,500, excluding VAT
• Only certain 3rd party costs qualify i.e. cost of work you have commissioned others to do.
• Eligible costs include domain name registration, hosting, web site development and ecommerce applications (online payment systems).
• Photography and internet promotion for example Google ads are not eligible expenses.
• Expenditure incurred prior to grant approval is not eligible.
• Participation on the Dublin City Enterprise Board 'Website Development' training course is required

Not ideal, but other county enterprise boards have different offers. Definitely worth looking into if it gives you some new options.

skelliser

Erifle, i have to echo what sengann has said, ur site is terrible, there is little or no seo on your site, in fact your site is just the template the designers used for there site tweeked a good bit.

skelliser

skelliser wrote: »

Erifle, i have to echo what sengann has said, ur site is terrible, there is little or no seo on your site, in fact your site is just the template the designers used for there site tweeked a good bit.

hosting company in the states was down hence the loading delays.

Theres no SEO for a reason, I have agents to market my property who spend a lot on their SEOs so I would be competing directly with them. As I said the site is there to simply present what we are doing and Im happy it does that

Pixelcraft

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said the site is there to simply present what we are doing and Im happy it does that

This isn't really the place for a website critique, but I have to respond to this. That's a bad attitude to have, you're thinking of your site for you, and not your users. What about people with disabilities for example, do they not matter? or people on macs, you get the point...

R3al

ben2k9 wrote: »

So when I register my business Ill get a business registration number or a taxpayer ID?

Ben

When you register with CRO you will receive an RBN (registered business number) however CRO is a separate entity to Revenue Commissioners (www.revenue.ie), you will need to register for VAT with Revenue Commissioners if you sell goods and your annual turnover will be in excess of 75000.00. (and €37500 for supplying services) see http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/registration/index.html

You can register for VAT if you are below these thresholds on a voluntary basis, this allows you to claim back the VAT when you make purchases for your business.

Regards

skelliser

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres no SEO for a reason, I have agents to market my property who spend a lot on their SEOs so I would be competing directly with them. As I said the site is there to simply present what we are doing and Im happy it does that

so you told them to code it badly! lol!
your site still takes ages to load up

Axwell

There will always be the debate over getting stuff done abroad for cheaper and the whole price vs quality issue. At the end of the day I think a big part of the problem is people dont value the work and time put into developing and coding a web site to standards and doing it professionally. When a professional says its going to cost 2k upwards people faint and think they are being taken for a ride but they forget the time and skill involved to produce the site. Also there is the cost of living here in Ireland which pushes up the rate of pay which is not comparible with those other countries.

There are so many factors involved in all of this but it comes down to personal choice in the end. Pay an irish company more oney for a professional job and have support and be able to contact them during office hours or have face to face meetings as opposed to paying someone abroad less money, never metting them, different timezones, language barrier, maybe support, maybe not, will they ever be on skype again or email you back once you pay them. Piece of mind and being able to meet the designers face to face or pick up the phone and call them has to be worth it to someone serious about their online presence and their business. In most cases also the person looking to get the site done wont be knowledgable in the area so being able to talk to the designer and discuss things, ask questions etc is crucial.

At the end of the day the cheapest option is not always the best option and as a business or entrepreneur its up to you to decide how important your online presence is to you.

skelliser

skelliser wrote: »

so you told them to code it badly! lol!
your site still takes ages to load up

skelliser, I think its fairly straightforward. As you know an SEO system costs extra per month.
If my agents are paying for an SEO system, I do not want to compete with my own stakeholders, therefore when asked do you want an SEO system in the package, I declined it. I cant really make it any clearer. I outsource my sales = cannot compete direct, otherwise it breaks the terms of our agency agreement

The bottom line for this whole thread is that a guy wanted to do a website on a low investment. He got told he cant. So the message is to him, ok he cant afford a full bells and whistles site for 5K so he better give up now and not try at all. Good thats a great way to help a young guy that wants to start a business.

This is an entrepreneurs forum after all not a graphic design/web design forum. I as an entrepreneur will recommend the guy to get started, rather then not try at all which is what the graphic designers have said in a roundabout way. He can get started if he wants, so what if its not perfect? He is just starting out obviously, and doesnt need to be told he cant do things. If he makes a mistake so be it, he will learn and maybe get more investment the next time.

Im telling him he can if he wants. It wont have all the things that designers think businesses rise and fall with but it will be there and it will be a start for him and he can build from it.

If you want to tell me my site is awful etc, fair enough thats your opinion. I know myself its fine, I have had enough feedback from the general public to know that.
When I launched that particular site I sent it to my existing buyers who were happy with it and replied so. I put myself in their shoes when I look at it, not in the shoes of a technical person. A regular person cant see what a designer sees.
The difference is you see the site with the eyes of a technical person, not the average person. What they see, they are happy with, what you see is a site that isnt optimised, you just dont seem to be able to understand why its not optimised.

If surpasshosting.com has a power problem I and their other 500,000 clients cant do too much about it unfortunately. Murphys law it has a problem when under scrutiny!!!


@axewell - we arent talking about zumpty here

W!zard

Many good points from many sources. Yes the poster can setup a website for near nothing without the skills but I belive that many here have simply pointed out the pros & cons, and if we can not do that on this forum, then we are not very entrepreneurial in giving back hard earned experience.

What we need here is a reply from another person who did pay 100 Euro (or there abouts) to setup their online presense, who are now doing well and can show that it is possible, which I am sure it is with abit of luck involved.

Great constructive comments from many posters, that should be taken on board. Anyone can make a basic website these days but can it be turned into a business or a decent support / sales structure to their offline business is another days work.

skelliser

Deleted User wrote: »

skelliser, I think its fairly straightforward. As you know an SEO system costs extra per month.

If surpasshosting.com has a power problem I and their other 500,000 clients cant do too much about it unfortunately. Murphys law it has a problem when under scrutiny!!!

sorry but Where are you getting this idea that SEO is charged by the month?!
what is a "SEO system"? sounds like your web developers have been spieling you bs.

I suggest you read up a little on SEO, any web designer worth his salt knows how to implement basic SEO into a site, yours hasnt.
They will also develop a strategy for increased Page rankings.

your right about the way i see sites but your missing the point entirely, how can i see the site if i cant find it!

As regards the hosting company, i use one particular crowd here in ireland and never once have i had any issue with the page not loading or taking ages either. And any outages im notified ahead of time. Your site is consistantly slow.
If your happy with the above so be it. You paid 250euro for a site, you got 250euros worth of a site.


At the end of the day All im saying is that if your gonna do something, do it right and do it right first time. First impressions and all that.

skelliser

skelliser wrote: »

sorry but Where are you getting this idea that SEO is charged by the month?!
what is a "SEO system"? sounds like your web developers have been spieling you bs.

I suggest you read up a little on SEO, any web designer worth his salt knows how to implement basic SEO into a site, yours hasnt.
They will also develop a strategy for increased Page rankings.

your right about the way i see sites but your missing the point entirely, how can i see the site if i cant find it!

As regards the hosting company, i use one particular crowd here in ireland and never once have i had any issue with the page not loading or taking ages either. And any outages im notified ahead of time. Your site is consistantly slow.
If your happy with the above so be it. You paid 250euro for a site, you got 250euros worth of a site.




At the end of the day All im saying is that if your gonna do something, do it right and do it right first time. First impressions and all that.

Of all the sites Ive got done - over the last few years, the SEO has always been quoted as an extra - either a once off extra payment or monthly. So I assumed that this is the norm, from what your saying its not and there are other options?

The people who would be viewing my site would be taking the address off a brochure or a business card so Im not worried about them looking on search engines. If you type in Sanson and Dunne it comes up which is all I need.

RE the hosting, from what I thought I had one of the best companies out there for it just to avoid problems like whats happening right now. Is this kind of thing not just part and parcel of IT though ie. once or twice a year there might be a server issue? Ive had a few email problems with them over the last two years before buts its generally sorted within a day so cant complain. I got an email from them this morning saying there was a power outage so Id expect it to be sorted within 24 hours

Axwell

Deleted User wrote: »

Of all the sites Ive got done - over the last few years, the SEO has always been quoted as an extra - either a once off extra payment or monthly. So I assumed that this is the norm, from what your saying its not and there are other options?

Basic SEO should really be implemented by the designer/coder when doing your site for you. By basic this would bbe the title meta, meta keywords and general SEO with the content using correct heading types and techniques to get you up and running in Google at the beginning.

After that you could pay a fee or a monthly payment to have ongoing SEO improvements to improve your rankings based on performance and traffic etc. This would be more aimed obviously at improving your ranking and getting you listed closer to the top of page one ahead of competitors etc so this may or may not be necesaary.

But basic SEO should really be implemented when the site is being done and withing the overall price, for example your site only uses the title Meta tag which gives the title "Sanson & Dunne MLC | Realestate Development Corporaation in Boracay Island, Philippines" across the top of the browser and this would be the site title in Google. However there are no keyword meta tags going with it. Also I should point out to you the word corporation is spelt wrongly...

As regards your hosting, thats a power outage and email issues you have had. I use a well known Irish host and have never had an outage in all the years i use them or email problems. I get emails when work is going to be done but they move stuff over to another server at the backend of things so there is no interference in service. Most hosting companies will say they offer 99.9% uptime..so look back and see how you find yours compares to that.

skelliser

the above is what i was trying to say, me fail english!