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Citroen D S PALLAS
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29-07-2009 11:51pm#1
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Hi everybody,
I need some help again! I'm thinking of getting a '73 Citreon DS pallas.. Catherine
Is it this one?
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/9516790 -
That sentence is the most frightning the I've read all year. :eek: I dont know much about them but Im still condident enough to say I think you'd be crazy to take on one of these as your first classic. Like other posters said there's so much to them.
I have to agree with Saab Ed here... I mean don't get me wrong, the DS is probably one of the loveliest classics you can buy, but maybe something a bit less complicated would make a better first classic
unless of course you have a mechanic that specialises in hydraulics and have unlimited funds at your disposal 0 -
I think it depends on how much you can spend. If someone is looking at it as an alternative to a modern, does little enough mileage, is happy spending five figures on an excellent one and has a good mechanic then I could see the whole thing as working out very well. I know that's a lot of 'ifs', but still!I have to agree with Saab Ed here... I mean don't get me wrong, the DS is probably one of the loveliest classics you can buy, but maybe something a bit less complicated would make a better first classic
unless of course you have a mechanic that specialises in hydraulics and have unlimited funds at your disposal0 -
I think it depends on how much you can spend. If someone is looking at it as an alternative to a modern, does little enough mileage, is happy spending five figures on an excellent one and has a good mechanic then I could see the whole thing as working out very well. I know that's a lot of 'ifs', but still!
I have yet to find a decent mechanic in this country that knows about Citroëns
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Well Catherine, if you get a good DS, it's a dream... but be cautious, they can be a bit tricky to maintain... Get a good one to start with and keep on top of things. Main issues are rust (of course) and the hydraulics. The rest is pretty straight forward (beware, nearly EVERYTHING in the car is hydraulic)
On the upside, you can get most parts for it new and they don't have to be too costly either, except if you're talking about a new interior I've quite a few connections on the continent for parts
The DS is probably the most pleasurable classic to own because it gives you unrivaled ride comfort. I own a Mercedes S Class and believe me, the DS is way better (don't get me wrong, i love my S, but still it's no DS). 0 -
Not a bad price actually for a RHD Pallas... Provided the car is in very good condition of course... The name of the seller rings a bell.....
Try talking to ds20prefecture on here, i think it's the same guy 0 -
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I spoke with the guy, but he sold it before I had a chance to go see it ( it was a white one, LHD, on carzone for 6 grand in dublin a couple of months ago)
So, down to brass tacks, is this a reasonable price? ( the last one was 6 grand this is 10)
First of all you are not mad, a good one is easy to look after. I have a Citroen SM, so all the Citroen bits and a Maserati engine.
It is used nearly every day, my biggest problem is getting parts. Parts are not an issue with the DS, loads of suppliers acrosss the world selling second hand parts and making new ones.
Your biggest worry is rust. They rust like mad, the biggest area is inside the boot and near the rear suspension. Every panel bolts off in a few mins, so it is easy to check out the car. Next item of concern would be the suspension, but easy to fix in most cases. The engines rarely give trouble. There are different models and some are more complex than others, and there are three different styles. First ones were single headlight, second gen had four lights not behind glass and the last gen had the two lights behind glass with the inner ones turning with the steering (like the one on done deal).
The white DS went cheap because the lad who had it took it in against a very nice ds estate and just wanted to move it on. It was in great nick with no work needed. Went to a lad in Limerick.
Just remember that any classic is just a very old second hand car and you got to be willing to spend a lot of time checking out one before you part with your cash. Since it is your first one try and stay with the later ones with the green suspension fluid. The more basic the spec the less trouble you will have, the catch here is the the driving experience is better with a higher spec
If you want an idea of the problems people have join the DS group on Yahoo, You should also join the Citroen Car club in the UK the forum is active enough and you will be amazed how many of the cars for sale are known to the members who will alert you to any known problems.
As far as price goes, just paying a lot does not guarantee a good car. The problem with the DS is that you spend a lot of time correcting the repair jobs that other people have done. So buy wisely. Never just go for a DS..they made loads. There is always another one for sale. Get it checked out or try to talk to the mechanic who looks after it.0 -
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Hi again,
Re your dads car, any more info, price, milage, colour etc?
I susspect this is the car in question
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/9589110 -
Try talking to ds20prefecture on here, i think it's the same guy
That's not me, but that is my name He also has a black DS just like mine, the number plate is only 1 digit higher than mine. Spooky.
Anyway, Catherine I'd echo Lyre's advice - he's hit the nail on the head.
A couple of points to add
I wouldn't be afraid of the DS as a first classic. I've have mine as my first classic for 6 years and 60000km.
They are a pain to work on and therefore expensive to have someone else maintain. But if you're mechanically minded there's not much you can't do yourself and there's tons of great advice online.
As Lyre says they're prone to rust. Right hand drive one are typically ex-UK and they are generally in worse condition at a given price point than a LHD one.
LHD is not the pain you might think it is. Mine is LHD and a daily driver. You get used to it.
Set a budget in your head and buy the most rust free car you can afford. Mechanically the cars are quite simple and robust and everything is available new or refurbished online at reasonable cost.
Hydraulics - Generally very robust, particularly on later cars. Easy to work on too, once you follow basic safety precautions. New suspension spheres cost about €80 delivered and can be fitted in about 15 minutes.
Some hydraulic bits are expensive - steering racks are prone to failure after around 100,000 miles. Refurbished ones will set you back around €700 and rarely last as long as the originals. Easy to fit.
Brakes - The DS has inboard brakes which makes some jobs a real pain. If the car you buy has new discs, brake pads and handbrake pads you'll save yourself a lot of grief. Easy to check. Disc pads are easily replaced. Handbrake pads are difficult to fit in under a day's labour!
Pallas cars have more external and internal trim. The way Citroen attached it, this means lots more holes in the bodywork which means lots more opportunities for rust. Personally, I prefer the cleaner lines of the non-pallas cars.
Regarding which DS, your first question should be which gearbox. The manual is a nice column mounted gear change. Very easy to get the hang of. 5 speed options available on later cars. The semi-auto is a manual gearchange with an automatic hydraulic clutch and hydraulic gear change. It's fantastic, but only available with 4 speeds. Not that big a deal, the car will cruise quietly at 80mph in 4th. The full auto is to be avoided. Heavy, unreliable, sluggish and not particularly smooth, it uses a Borg Warner 3 speed that's difficult to get bits for now. They're very rare.
Next question is which engine. DS23efi is the most powerful with 145bhp. Its a fantastic high speed cruiser, but still a big heavy car so you're not going to win any races. It a large capacity 4 cylinder (2375cc) so not very smooth. The DS21 (2145cc) efi is rarer, smoother and only a little less powerful. Also more softly sprung which suits the character of the car.
Both DS23 and DS21 are the same engines with carburettors. They're thirstier and less powerful than the EFIs but a lot simpler mechanically and therefore more robust.
The DS20 (1985cc) is probably the smoothest of the later engines. With 100bhp the car will just keep up in stop-go traffic. On the open road it's happiest at about 75mph. I've seen 100mph on mine, but you really have to ask why you want to do 100mph in a 40 year old car.
Pre 1967 there's the DS19 (1911cc) with the older 3 bearing engine. It's about 85bhp.
All the engines are big heavy lumps. Frankly, they're the weakest point of the whole car. It really deserved the flat 6 they designed for it, but never productionised.
Attached is a buyers guide. As per PM, i'd be delighted to help in any way I can.0 -
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