Does religious practice have a positive affect on Christian epistemology?

Hotspace

I posit that religious practice has a positive affect on Christian epistemology. What do I mean by this? Christians engage in worship, prayer and communion. These, I would say, are among the core areas of Christian religious practice. Also, if we stretch the term “religious practice” we can include under that umbrella: witnessing and fellowship. If a Christian were to halt these practices then the belief, ‘Jesus is Real’ would not be so apparent and self-reinforcing. Indeed, some of the more fundamentalist Christians would say that to stop these endeavours would be to let Satan into their life and of course the belief ‘Jesus is real’ would be undermined.

When faced with this statement, I believe, there are only three possible answers. That religious practice has a positive affect, a neutral affect or a negative affect. One must surely agree that the affect is positive. Now, one must agree on the strength of this affect. I believe it is very strong.

I myself am an ex-Christian and from what I remember of my Christian life and the bible study groups that I attended we actually said something before every study that would seek to affirm my statement and the positive affect would be very strong. We prayed for God to help our understanding of the material we would study. Why could we not understand it ourselves? If we had the spirit and the bible was the spirit breathed word of God then surely that help was already there. Or perhaps, the prayer was for this spirit led understanding to be apparent. Let’s look at what theologians say about Christian epistemology, Thomas Aquinas, believed, "that for the knowledge of any truth whatsoever man needs divine help, that the intellect may be moved by God to its act." No other area of human knowledge asks for divine help when engaged in its study. Why is this?

Let’s delve deeper by looking at worship and fellowship. Worship has a very deep self-reinforcing affect of Christian epistemology. Beliefs are sung with joy to an uplifting emotional tune. From my memory, one of my favourite modern day hymns was, “Shine, Jesus Shine” by Graham Kendrick. Singing this would reinforce the belief that ‘Jesus is real’ in a strong and emotive way. Also, there are more powerful psychological factors at work and by that I mean worshipping as a group. Humans find groups and society very comforting; we are, after all, a very gregarious animal. And when we are in a group that shares similar views we see that the view is strengthened because others believe it too. It is clear in my mind that there is sanity in numbers. I like to turn these statements on their head and ask, “If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?” I’ve asked this question a number of times to Christians (well, Mormons – to be precise) and the answer is a resounding yes; a yes with a gleam of joy in their eye. But, deep down, I could tell that a difficult question had to be given with a positive answer and a ‘Jesus smile’.

So, there we have it. There is room for discussion, is there not? Let’s break it down into three questions prised out of the above:

• Does religious practice have an affect on Christian epistemology, if so to what degree?
• No other area of human knowledge asks for divine help when engaged in its study. Why is this?
• If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?

Discuss…

philologos

The most important part of Christians worshipping together, irrespective of how that is done is the relationships that form between them, and how people build eachother up in their respective faith.

I think if there wasn't a particular meeting place for Christians, people would organise Christian meetings of faith at peoples houses.

I don't think that singing hymns makes any more "real" the existence and presence of Jesus Christ. We have the Biblical text if we want to examine this hypothesis more closely from the perspective of Biblical prophesy and the Gospels.

I don't think worship has as big an impact on belief as you have made out that it does, but I do think that it is important for believers to meet together in some way.

prinz

Hotspace wrote: »

• Does religious practice have an affect on Christian epistemology, if so to what degree?
• No other area of human knowledge asks for divine help when engaged in its study. Why is this?
• If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?

Discuss…

1. More than likely yes. To what degree depends on the person, place, time, situation. Christianity and various denominations have survived being persecuted and almost wiped out. Especially in eras when religious practices were limited and punishable. Faith will find a way. Community always helps. Even hermit monks started living in communties and sharing knowledge and understanding. It follows that shared experience via religious practices will help encourage understanding and insight collectively.

2. I don't know about you but I know I ask for divine help when I'm studying other subjects from time to time.

3. Odd question, in what scenario? Are we to place ourselves back into the time of Jesus? Or if all other Christians were wiped out in the present day?

Hotspace

prinz wrote: »

3. Odd question, in what scenario? Are we to place ourselves back into the time of Jesus? Or if all other Christians were wiped out in the present day?

Sorry, let me be more precise, and this is a purely hypothetical question. If you were the only one who believed, in the present day (and that would entail all other Christians backsliding so that Christianity would die-out) would you still believe?

prinz

Hotspace wrote: »

Sorry, let me be more precise, and this is a purely hypothetical question. If you were the only one who believed, in the present day (and that would entail all other Christians backsliding so that Christianity would die-out) would you still believe?

Hypothetically yes.

Hotspace

prinz wrote: »

Hypothetically yes.

But you did agree that fellowship (in any degree) affects your Christian belief and understanding. If we take that fellowship away totally (even hypothetically) then you have less grounds for belief. For there is sanity in numbers and then that number would be 1.

robindch

Hotspace wrote: »

Does religious practice have an affect on Christian epistemology, if so to what degree?

Yes, a massive and carefully choreographed effect. Wikipedia's List of Cognitive Biases lists many common errors that people make, of which groupthink is perhaps the most relevant.

Hotspace wrote: »

No other area of human knowledge asks for divine help when engaged in its study.

Most religious belief systems are recursive, and rely upon themselves to provide both the justification for their own existence as well as the epistemological framework without which they won't survive.

Hotspace wrote: »

Why is this?

Because if a religion didn't bend the epistemological rules, then nobody would accept it and it would disappear. The religions which have best survived are those which have evolved these mechanisms to preserve belief -- both social and epistemological.

Hotspace wrote: »

If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?

I'm not a christian, but if I were, I'd certainly be concerned if I were the only one. Having said that, pretty much all believers of any particular sect or denomination will differ amongst themselves to a greater or lesser degree concerning many of the details of the deity they believe they believe in, so the fact that people's beliefs differ seems relatively unimportant. What's important, at least from the point of view of the continuity and coherence of the religion, is the appearance of common belief.

BTW, Terry Pratchett's Small Gods is a good read -- it's about a god who has only one believer, but he's a True Believer

prinz

Hotspace wrote: »

But you did agree that fellowship (in any degree) affects your Christian belief and understanding. If we take that fellowship away totally (even hypothetically) then you have less grounds for belief. For there is sanity in numbers and then that number would be 1.

Not less grounds for belief. Less of an ability to explore the faith, and learn from the insights and understandings of others, more knowledgeable perhaps. But belief. Nope.

antiskeptic

Hotspace wrote: »

I posit that religious practice has a positive affect on Christian epistemology. What do I mean by this? Christians engage in worship, prayer and communion. These, I would say, are among the core areas of Christian religious practice. Also, if we stretch the term “religious practice” we can include under that umbrella: witnessing and fellowship. If a Christian were to halt these practices then the belief, ‘Jesus is Real’ would not be so apparent and self-reinforcing.

Insert the words talk to, do things for, think about and....wife into the above statement and reconsider your conclusion in the light of it. Certainly if I didn't do these thing w.r.t. my wife then my relationship with her would diminish qualitively. But to say the my doing things reinforces the apparent reality of her would be to talk in a strange manner.

I myself am an ex-Christian and from what I remember of my Christian life and the bible study groups that I attended we actually said something before every study that would seek to affirm my statement and the positive affect would be very strong. We prayed for God to help our understanding of the material we would study. Why could we not understand it ourselves? If we had the spirit and the bible was the spirit breathed word of God then surely that help was already there.

One can pray for understanding during a Bible study as one often hears our Lords prayer being prayed: rattled off in auto-mode. Or one might pray a prayer for understanding from the position of actively seeking understanding out of a desire for the presence of God that arises through understanding (or deeper understanding) of his Word. Why would one having the spirit not understand the full depth of the complete word of God on a single reading? Perhaps there's too much to take on board? Perhaps we're not ready to take it on board because of the consequences of exposure to it?

The sense of ones Christian walk being a progressive thing - involving deepening knowledge, deepening love of God, deepening holiness can hardly be missed. It's as unmissable as the sense that one one need not go deeper if one doesn't desire.

I suppose an earnest prayer is an expression of the desire to go deeper

Let’s delve deeper by looking at worship and fellowship. Worship has a very deep self-reinforcing affect of Christian epistemology. Beliefs are sung with joy to an uplifting emotional tune. From my memory, one of my favourite modern day hymns was, “Shine, Jesus Shine” by Graham Kendrick. Singing this would reinforce the belief that ‘Jesus is real’ in a strong and emotive way.

The relationship between God and man centres on love. And as anyone who loves anyone/thing will agree, love is something that requires expression of the joy that love causes to rise up within. When God instructed that this expression find itself in music he appears to;

a) have realised it is good for us to express the love we have for him

b) realised (in contrast) how awful it would be for us to love him but not have ways to express it

c) have understood music to be an excellent way to express love (whether for him or his closest approximation - another man/woman)

I'm not sure what self-reinforcing means but the way I'd see singing about God is the way I'd see singing any love song to anyone I loved - an mode of expression of that love.

Also, there are more powerful psychological factors at work and by that I mean worshipping as a group. Humans find groups and society very comforting; we are, after all, a very gregarious animal. And when we are in a group that shares similar views we see that the view is strengthened because others believe it too.

I'm not sure whether my belief that God exists is strengthened by others believing it (given that ones belief that God exists is (in my experience) arise out of God turning up personally). But it certainly helps my faith that there are others to share my faith with.

It is clear in my mind that there is sanity in numbers. I like to turn these statements on their head and ask, “If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?” I’ve asked this question a number of times to Christians (well, Mormons – to be precise) and the answer is a resounding yes; a yes with a gleam of joy in their eye. But, deep down, I could tell that a difficult question had to be given with a positive answer and a ‘Jesus smile’.

]

As per above, God turning up (as with anything turning up) is the reason I believe in the existance of him (or anything else that turns up). It might be that if no one else believed in Gods existance that I might be convinced that I'd dreamt it. Unless of course God persistantly turned up. In which case I'd have to decide between the ability of folk to persuade me that I was still dreaming it all up and Gods ability to convince me that I'm not. So far he's winning - as one would expect from any God worth his salt.

Point being: my belief in God doesn't rely on my ability to discern, decide, figure out - whether he does or doesn't. It ultimately relies on God's ability to ensure I believe.

PDN

I think antiskeptic makes a good point. Christianity is essentially about a relationship, not about believing a set of intellectual propositions. The more you are involved in 'doing' Christianity, the more Christ reveals Himself to you.

As for the song 'Shine Jesus Shine' - if anyone invents a time machine I would cheerfully go back to Graham Kendrick's childhood and strangle him in the cradle to save him from inflicting that piece of twaddle on the world.

Soul Winner

Does religious practice have an affect on Christian epistemology, if so to what degree?

Not sure what you mean by Christian epistemology? Are you talking about the origins of Christianity? If so then I would say no of course not. Worship came after the revelation not before. But maybe that is not what you meant. Epistemology is the study of knowledge and the origins thereof.

No other area of human knowledge asks for divine help when engaged in its study. Why is this?

That is a question for other areas of human knowledge and not for Christianity surely? Maybe what you meant was: "Why do Christians ask for help when they study?" And the answer to that is: "Because they recognize their need of God's help in the understanding of His word. You’d have to ask the other disciples why they don’t do this in order to get a definitive answer.

If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?


I came to faith because of a really strong tugging on my heart by a power that I beleive was the Holy Spirit. How I know it was real for me is because I never wanted to be Christian, especially not one who calls himself born again. But that's what I am I suppose. Explain that in natural terms? Is there something wrong with me? Anyway to answer your question. I would still believe even if there was no other Christians but I would need the direct help of that power which called me originally in order to keep my focus upward and not on the things of this world. In short I would need God Himself to guide me as He did the prophets of old when everyone else around them turned their backs on God. I must admit though it would be tough.

Some verses to ponder on:

“Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” Hebrews 10:25-27

“…men ought always to pray, and not to faint…” Luke 18:1

“Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” Ephesians 5:19-21

Fanny Cradock

I would think that epistemology really isn't what is being reinforced in the mind of the Christian on a typical Sunday; it's the core beliefs (i.e. a truth already accepted as such) that are being reinforced. To me the word "epistemology" suggests a deeper questioning or study of the very building blocks of a belief or a knowledge. This isn't the goal of gathering together, and I dare say that most people - even in a non-religious context - would find this deep questioning impossible to achieve on a regular basis.

Hotspace wrote: »

No other area of human knowledge asks for divine help when engaged in its study. Why is this?

I would have thought the answer was rather obvious. Other forms of study aren't involved in directly engaging God, or God - either in terms of a concept or a reality - isn't central to the field of study.

Hotspace wrote: »

Also, there are more powerful psychological factors at work and by that I mean worshipping as a group. Humans find groups and society very comforting; we are, after all, a very gregarious animal. And when we are in a group that shares similar views we see that the view is strengthened because others believe it too. It is clear in my mind that there is sanity in numbers.

I would agree. Furthermore, one could say that the passion felt by other groups can similarly dwindle without stimulation. So, whether you are talking about football fans, political ideologues, religious folks, trainspotters, the occasional atheist or whoever else, it seems that it is natural for to seek out the companionship of similarly minded people. Indeed, one can say the same of two lovers. Ever had a long distance relationship?

Hotspace wrote: »

I like to turn these statements on their head and ask, “If you were the only one to believe in Christianity would you still do so?” I’ve asked this question a number of times to Christians (well, Mormons – to be precise) and the answer is a resounding yes; a yes with a gleam of joy in their eye. But, deep down, I could tell that a difficult question had to be given with a positive answer and a ‘Jesus smile’.

I would think that the answer would be "no". By this I mean that if I were the only person out of 6,000,000,000 people to believe in the message of the bible, then I believe that I would eventually have to conclude that God had done such a terrible job of spreading the Word and saving his creations that he probably didn't exist as the Christian (singular) of the world believes.

Indeed, I would imagine that the weight of the unified opinions of 6,000,000,000 people (as above I'm assuming that that they did, do or will share the same opinion) would be enough to convince any one of us that black is actually white or that it's good to kill Jews. But if we are actually talking about objective truth, I don't actually see how the numbers of believers for or against a propositional truth has any effect upon its actual truth. Why, if this were the case, and we were to subscribe to the "wisdom of crowds" theory, then I would suggest that you and every other atheist and agnostic have it badly wrong.

Out of curiosity, if there were 6,000,000,000 convinced Christians in the world and you were the only non-believer, do you think you would face the world down? Or would you bend and buckle under the weight of opinion? Finally, what bearing, if any, would this have to the answer to the question, "is there a God?"?