Climbing

Captain Havoc

I'm poor in all aspects of cycling but the one that's really frustrating me is climbing. I can't spin up the hills, everyone passes me out. I can't grind up them, works perfect on small yolks but anything of a decent size then my legs go jelly like, I fall apart and everyone passes me out. Now I really don't mind everyone passing me on hills but climbing 5+ minutes behind everyone else on a Mickey Mouse climb is annoying me. I've played with hand positions and gearing. Physically I'm 1m65 and weigh 70kg, I've a bit of a belly but not much. I would really appreciate any tips you guys could give me. Cheers

Nietzschean

you can't spin or you can't grind? what sort of gearing are you using to go up the hills in?

FrankGrimes

Not saying to be smart but there really are some excellent pretty recent threads on here with lots of great tips on climbing - if you do a search for them I'm sure you'll find everything you need.

lukester

What Frank said.

Also, lose the belly, and just keep practising on hills. You will get fitter and faster.

Lots of tips here too: http://www.cptips.com/climb.htm

Captain Havoc

Triple, 52-39-30/ 10 speed 12-25. I was trying bottom ring in low gear which was slow. This weekend I tried to get some momentum and forget the group, which I think annoyed people and just made me blow all my energy. I don't mind on the large sportives like the ROK and so on, but I was on a smaller one recently and I blessed to find a groupe arrière to drag me.

Lumen

Most people climb as fast as they can; the difference between suffering and feeling fine might be only 10%.

This means you only need to have a small power/weight disadvantage and you'll feel like you are completely crap compared to others, when in reality you're just a bit worse.

"A bit of a belly" probably translates to 5kg at least. Each mm of fat spread over your entire surface area weighs about 1.8kg.

Train consistently and drop the excess weight and you'll start to fly up the hills.

Raam

Learn to suffer. Sounds easy, right?

Lumen

If you want to feel good about your hillclimbing, don't go cycling with Raam.

If you want to make it to the top without being involved in an accident, start behind him.

Captain Havoc

Does Raam have a white planet-x bike? I saw one boardsie on the ROK heading up the first climb with one and I was :eek:

Raam

jerseyeire wrote: »

Does Raam have a white planet-x bike? I saw one boardsie on the ROK heading up the first climb with one and I was :eek:

Sounds like Astra Monti. I was in manly pink on a red bike.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah that would be Astra-"F**ktheGarmin"-monti.

For longer climbs you really need to break it up into 3 parts in your head, going at it very easy in the beginning (spinning faster than you would normally do) then gradually ramping it up until you push over the summit. Going hard at the start can give you the "jelly leg" feeling, as a steady climb doesn't give you many opportunities to sit back and recover.

Just follow Sastre's approach and you will be fine.

FrankGrimes

Follow Lumen's advice on losing the weight for sure but do dig out the old threads on here too.

I'd advise getting something like a 12-27 cassette on the back - that has really helped my climbing compared to a 25. I'm actually going for an 11-28 now just to have in reserve as I'll be tackling the Alps soon. Will be advertising my 12-27 for sale on here shortly.

Start the climb in your easiest gear and keep a high cadence and up the gears if you feel you can take it is the essence of the advice you'll find in the older threads. I followed that advice and whereas I used to really suffer on climbs, I now keep heart rate below 160bpm and am going up them much easier. Not flying up given I'm 89kg but defo a big improvement: on Saturday I did Glanmalure x 4 and Slieve Mann x 3 and wasn't on the edge at any point cos I was kept under my threshold. I then do intervals up to Cruagh during the week (Edmonstown Rd is tougher imo than Stocking Lane but I mix it between both) where I go flat out for at least part of the climb. Recommend it - I found it really discouraging when I wasn't making progress a few months back and it wasn't until I changed my approach to the above that I noticed improvements so stick with it.

ROK ON

@Jerseyeire: I am a fair bit bigger than you (25kg to be exact), and am a very slow climer.
Last year I couldnt get up anything, this year there is nothing that I have met that I cant get up, now that is a huge turnarond for me.

I have done a few things
(1) Spin - I have similar gearing to you (52/39/30). On any climb more than 3km with an avg gradient of at least 5% I go into the 30 ring straight away, and vary the gears in order to keep spinning. Thi means that I keep cycling. However it means that I am slow (very slow) on the climbs.
Yet there are several climbs on my training routes tat have 10-20% sections that I can spin up. CPTIPS cited by Lukeseter is a good starting point

(2) As Raam has said - learn to suffer. To be honest at 70kgs with the gearing you have there is very little that you should struggle on. You may not be pushing yurself hard enough. But a reasonable Heart Rate monitor, and use it to gauge how much you are able for. For example, my theoretical max HR is 184 (however I have done 202). When climbing, I have figured out that if I keep my HR below 175hr, that I can spin away for a reasonably long time without getting into trouble breathing. I also know that if i spend too much time above 180bpm that I will simply run out of oxygen. I try to keep around 170-172, and usually keep enough in reserve so that I can bust a gut if I want to (a very steep bit or the top of a climb). I keep my HR at that level by spining consistently and counting my breaths. If it goes up too much, I spin a little slower and try to hold my breath a little longer. Takes practice and will come.
A HRM is not perfect, but it is a reasonably cheap way of measuring roughly how much pain you can take.

(3) Try and stay seated. Your HR will tend t rise as you stand to power up.

You will find that once you get into a spinning rythym that it becomes sort of hypnotic.

Ignore everyone else on a climb and focus on your own climbing.

Find a distraction from the climb - I focus on the few meters ahead, and often count (white lines in the middle of the road, telegraph/electricity poles etc). You can take your mind off the pain by focusing on something else.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

If you want to make it to the top without being involved in an accident, start behind him.

You don't know how many times I nearly slammed into the back of you the other day. I really wish you would sprint faster up those hills

FrankGrimes

ROK ON wrote: »

Ignore everyone else on a climb and focus on your own climbing.

Lots of great advice from ROK ON there but that one stands out: while you're building up to a certain decent level of climbing do totally ignore everyone around you on a climb. Don't let the ego force you into busting a gut to stay up with a faster climber as you'll burn out soon enough. It's your climb so climb it at your pace. When you've progressed a long way then you can start using others as competition to spur you on, but forget that for now.

It's very much a horses for courses thing though: are you aiming to improve your time on a short steep hill on a 40km time trial route or are you looking to pace yourself up long climbs in long distance endurance events (like W200, Sean Kelly 160)? The answer should help select the heart rate zone to spend most of your training time in but do make sure that you do get at least one flat out climbing interval session in each week.

Diarmuid

It's quite easy

• Lots of training
• Learn to suffer and find out you limits (HR monitor is a good idea)
• Lose weight

The rest (high/low gearing, in saddle/out of saddle) is secondary IMHO.

cunnins4

cycle at your own pace man, and keep at it. The weight will come off due to the extra exercise and this in turn will help you climb. I'm just under 6ft and 14stone so I'm a bit heavy for climbing-about 6 months ago I was much closer to 13 stone and it was so much easier without the extra weight (about 6kg, similar to what Lumen suggested you could do with losing).

Just keep at it and the climbs will come. Nothing better than getting to the top, almost vommiting whilst happy with the effort you've put in to get you there. Just keep spinning!

lukester

Just came across this in my bookmarks by Jonathan Vaughters, no doubt posted before but worth a re-read:

Jonathan Vaughters wrote:

Rule 1: Get on with it.

Climbing mountains on a bike is not fun. So, to do it properly, you need to accept this fact and get on with it. I see so many people looking for that secret technique or training method that will make climbing painless and suffer-free. This will never happen. Training and techniques will make you suffer slightly faster up hills, not suffer any less. Climbing is painful, period. The sooner you just accept that and stop looking for ways around it, the better you will learn how to climb. Let the suffer-meter serve as your internal tachometer, letting you know how close to your limit you are. Accepting and really allowing yourself to feel that pain will make you a better rider. Trying to ignore it will distract you from the task at hand and make you ride slower.

Rule 2: Don’t be self-conscious.

Suffering isn’t pretty. It isn’t meant to be. If you are going about your business of climbing properly, you will be breathing like a water buffalo, sweating like a chain gang, and probably have snot dribbling off your chin. If this is not the case, you aren’t doing this correctly. Over the years I’ve ridden with so many people who are always worrying about breathing too hard in front of their buddy. You’re supposed to be in pain and you’re supposed to be breathing hard, I mean the harder you breath the more o2 you’ll get to your muscles, so let the image thing go, and get down and dirty with the hill. Anyway, if your buddy is two miles behind you, he can’t hear you breathing anymore, can he?

Rule 3: Relax.

O.K., I know this seems a bit contradictory to rules 1 and 2, but this is the real Zen of climbing right here. You have to learn to accept the pain, breath like a warthog, and keep everything else relaxed. Gripping your handlebars with white knuckles and doing brake lever pull-ups does not make your pedals go around any faster. Your hands should be so relaxed that if you had to, you could play the piano. Your shoulders, arms, and upper body should be so relaxed that you just sort of rhythmically flop along with the pedals, like Stevie Wonder in concert. Also, if you look at all the op pros, notice how they look like they have a pot belly when climbing? That’s because they let their diaphragm relax and drop. They breath by expanding the soft tissue of their belly as opposed to trying to expand the bones of their ribcage. This is the opposite of what you do at the beach, where it’s belly in, shoulders back, chest out. This is belly out, shoulders relaxed, and forget about your chest.

Rule 4. Pedal all the way around.

Momentum is what you don’t have very much of when going up a hill. So, if you just push the pedals down and let the chain go slack the other 250 degrees of the pedal stroke, you will be losing momentum with each and every dead spot. On a flat road this doesn’t matter too much, but on a hill this will cost you dearly. So, keep the tension on the chain the whole way ‘round, especially at the 12 o’clock and 6 o’clock pedal position. Push outward with your quadriceps at the 12 and pull back, like you’re scraping mud off your shoes, at the 6. This will help keep that precious little momentum from slipping away.

Rule 5: The Little Engine That Could.

“I think I can, I think I can, I think I can…”….Think I’m joking? No, I am not. The rhythm of your breath and thoughts are crucial to grinding your way up long Cols. You must synch your breath, your pedaling, and your thoughts in one monotonous, focused, and plodding rhythm. Exhale forcefully and inhale naturally in time with every contraction of your muscles; let your body sway to the rhythm that creates; then set the metronome in your head and be The Little Engine. Laugh all you want. It works.

...

If all else fails, you can just stop on the side of the road and rest, right? Maybe ask for your mommy and curl up in a fetal ball while you’re at it? Which brings me to the most important rule of all when it comes to climbing: Never give up.

Captain Havoc

Thanks everyone for the advice, some good stuff there for me to think about and pre-thanks to any more that does come in. I think I got a little frustrated this weekend (can't wait to see how cheesed off I get next weekend ) and it is the area I'm concentrating on, which added to the frustration. Anyway, good stuff and I'm looking forward to seeing some of you this weekend. Switching off now as Rebecca (my bike) needs to be cleaned and then I have a soccer match.
Thanks

Blowfish

Rule 5: The Little Engine That Could.

“I think I can, I think I can, I think I can…”….Think I’m joking? No, I am not. The rhythm of your breath and thoughts are crucial to grinding your way up long Cols. You must synch your breath, your pedaling, and your thoughts in one monotonous, focused, and plodding rhythm. Exhale forcefully and inhale naturally in time with every contraction of your muscles; let your body sway to the rhythm that creates; then set the metronome in your head and be The Little Engine. Laugh all you want. It works.

I'm convinced this is the only reason I'm able to get up hills at all. It's also the main reason I never stand on climbs, anything that breaks my rhythym sets me back ridiculously and makes the climb feel twice as hard.

showry

from "The Rider"

Climbing is a rhythm, a trance; you have to rock your organs' protests back to sleep.

AstraMonti

jerseyeire wrote: »

Does Raam have a white planet-x bike? I saw one boardsie on the ROK heading up the first climb with one and I was :eek:

Now that just made my week! :eek: The truth is that i hammered the first climb because i was in an urgent need of painkillers for my knee.. lol (oh the irony..)

The only advice i can give for the climbs is ignore all the others and pace yourself on your own rhythm. Music helps a lot, just don't have any ballads