4 Specs, which is best?

gimme5minutes

A.
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz
8Gb OCZ DDR2 PC2-8500
PowerColor HD 4870

B.
Intel Core 2 Quad Q660 2.40Ghz
Adata 4Gb 1066Mhz
Nvidia GTX 280

C.
Intel Core 2 Duo e8400 3.0Ghz
4GB OCZ 1150Mhz
Sapphire HD 4870 512Mb

D.
AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0Ghz
6GB DDR3 1333Mhz
Nvidia 9800GT 1 Gb

Which of these 4 specs is the best? If the AMD had a HD 4870 graphics card would it beat the rest?

Solitaire

What are you doing and what is your budget?

Without answers to those your question is a bit like randomly asking me if I want tomato sauce. Its nice on a burger but I don't want you to put it on my ice-cream!

A: CPU is fast but pricey, average performance in multithreaded apps even with OC but strong in single/dual-threaded ones. RAM is overkill. GPU is great for gaming at 1650*1080, decent enough at 1080p and a bit naff above that if its the 512MB version (you didn't say which!)

B: CPU is good at multithreaded apps but mediocre at single/dual-threaded ones without OC. May be overpriced as you neglected to put prices up (for anything!). RAM seems fair if under €50. GPU is great for 1080p+ and utter overkill for anything below. Probably ludicrously overpriced too.

C: CPU is fast but pricey, average performance in multithreaded apps even with OC but strong in single/dual-threaded ones. What RAM is that?! GPU is great for gaming at 1650*1080, decent enough at 1080p and a bit naff above that.

CPU is good to great at most things really Just hope that's the new-stepping 945 you've got there. RAM is... just wrong. AM3 is dual-channel! GPU is naff - 9800GT is weak and it doesn't even have the power to actually need the extra memory which you're probably paying a premium for!

If the AMD had a HD 4870 graphics card would it beat the rest?

Probably, not counting that stray GTX280 (wtf?) anyway, but what are you doing with it?

gimme5minutes

Cheers for the detailed answer mate. What I'll be using it for is mainly web design/development...will have a ton of firefox tabs/windows open at once, image editing app and music player open at the same time. Maybe 5-10% of the time I'd be using it for games but I've always liked to have a powerful graphics card in my machines even if I don't use it that much

I see you say the GTX 280 is probably ludicrously overpriced, what would be the the best card to get pound for pound at the moment? As in I know the top end cards can cost over twice as much as a middle range card, yet they are no way near twice as powerful.


I got the spec for D here - http://www.custompc.ie/gamer-amd-phenom-x4-cool-box-1266-p.asp , is the RAM being displayed incorrectly on the site? I thought this could be a good deal if I just got the system with the base gfx card and then stuck a good gfx card into that I could pick up second hand.

Oh yeah, my budget would be about 800-900, don't need a monitor. Can't afford to wait 2-3 weeks to get a pc off the german site hardwarevsand.de or whatever it is.

Solitaire

gimme5minutes wrote:

Can't afford to wait 2-3 weeks to get a pc off the german site hardwarevsand.de or whatever it is.

Ouch. Methinks you should bring protection - as you're now liable to get raped Rip-off merchants thrive on the desperate :mad:

EDIT: Spec for D now totally messed, showing 4GB instead of 6GB but that won't work on an AM2 mobo lads! Aside from the retarded options and price-gouging with the graphics cards (which on their own invalidate this option) the X4-940 option guarantees the mobo is AM2, but the killer is that its network and sound suggest its an ancient bargain-basement mobo that probably isn't even compatible with Phenom2, much less able to survive a 125W CPU!

don't need a monitor

So you need a monitor. I can tell, because you didn't say "don't need another monitor" Not strictly needed but for those who do heavy donkey-work on their PC the extended desktop workspace from a second monitor can be invaluable

But, completely seriously now, what resolution is your primary monitor? (y'know, the one you use for games ) For gaming, you only really need a HD4850 to support a 1650*1080 monitor. HD4870 512MB is nice, but unless there's virtually no price difference between it and a HD4850 you should only look at the 1GB version as that's the one with the little bit of added grunt to manage 1080p (1920*1080) without stressing itself a bit too much. If you want top performance from 1080p or higher then a HD4890 is very nice... if you don't pay out of your nose for one. Anything past it is overkill - both for your needs and on your wallet!

As for nVidia? Ignore GTS240 or lower. Ignore GTS250 unless cheaper than the cheapest HD4850 option. Don't look at GTX260 unless listed as 216core or 55nm versions, and even then don't bother unless around the price of a HD4870 1GB. Ignore GTX275 unless cheaper than HD4890. GTX280/285 is complete overkill and probably a third of your budget on their own. Note that unlike ATi they can accelerate Adobe CS4 apps but I don't know if you're using Adobe's stuff, and if you are I don't know if you're processing/editing RAW images heavy enough to make much of a difference.

Do you think any etailer will ship a full build for you any faster than HWVS? :rolleyes:

cronos

Solitaire wrote: »

Ouch. Methinks you should bring protection - as you're now liable to get raped Rip-off merchants thrive on the desperate

HAHAHA LOL

gimme5minutes

Solitaire wrote: »

Ouch. Methinks you should bring protection - as you're now liable to get raped Rip-off merchants thrive on the desperate :mad:

I know, have no option though, I can't wait for delivery.

EDIT: Spec for D now totally messed, showing 4GB instead of 6GB but that won't work on an AM2 mobo lads! Aside from the retarded options and price-gouging with the graphics cards (which on their own invalidate this option) the X4-940 option guarantees the mobo is AM2, but the killer is that its network and sound suggest its an ancient bargain-basement mobo that probably isn't even compatible with Phenom2, much less able to survive a 125W CPU!

Well that's that option ruled out, cheers for helping me dodge that bullet.

So you need a monitor. I can tell, because you didn't say "don't need another monitor" Not strictly needed but for those who do heavy donkey-work on their PC the extended desktop workspace from a second monitor can be invaluable

I have two Dell 20 inchers. I would love another, bigger monitor but it would be a pure luxury, I get by perfectly fine with the dual 20 inchs.

But, completely seriously now, what resolution is your primary monitor? (y'know, the one you use for games ) For gaming, you only really need a HD4850 to support a 1650*1080 monitor. HD4870 512MB is nice, but unless there's virtually no price difference between it and a HD4850 you should only look at the 1GB version as that's the one with the little bit of added grunt to manage 1080p (1920*1080) without stressing itself a bit too much. If you want top performance from 1080p or higher then a HD4890 is very nice... if you don't pay out of your nose for one. Anything past it is overkill - both for your needs and on your wallet!

As for nVidia? Ignore GTS240 or lower. Ignore GTS250 unless cheaper than the cheapest HD4850 option. Don't look at GTX260 unless listed as 216core or 55nm versions, and even then don't bother unless around the price of a HD4870 1GB. Ignore GTX275 unless cheaper than HD4890. GTX280/285 is complete overkill and probably a third of your budget on their own. Note that unlike ATi they can accelerate Adobe CS4 apps but I don't know if you're using Adobe's stuff, and if you are I don't know if you're processing/editing RAW images heavy enough to make much of a difference.

Good info cheers.

Do you think any etailer will ship a full build for you any faster than HWVS? :rolleyes:

No, although I think you can do a same day pick up from elara, I might have a look at their prices. At the moment I'm looking at getting something second hand off adverts.ie. However it seems that most of the guys selling pcs their haven't grasped the concept of second hand goods and are looking for abou 85-90% of the original costs of their machines which is ludicrous, even more so when we are talking fast changing technology like pc components. I think hardwareversand offer brand new pcs with the same/higher specs for the same prices as the second hand ones on adverts.ie. If only I could afford to wait.

Solitaire

gimme5minutes wrote:

I have two Dell 20 inchers. I would love another, bigger monitor but it would be a pure luxury, I get by perfectly fine with the dual 20 inchs.

Thanks Still need the maximum resolution though! Guessing 1650*1080 but you never know with 20" units...

Just had another look at D... doesn't even include a DVD burner as standard! And I know for a fact that all those GPU prices are twice the going market rate. Cheeky [CENSORED]! :mad: But if you could point me to where you got A/B/C from I can give them a second look and see if they're servicable.

gimme5minutes

Maximum res on those monitors is 1600x1200. I've already pmed you about one of the pcs im looking at, ill pm you links to the other two now.

Solitaire

The one for €999 is a bit overpriced but given the monitor there may be wiggle room... your monitor resolution means a 512MB HD4870 is more than ample. Haven't seen any PC9200 DDR2 systems for a while

The one for €1250 is difficult as I don't know what the seller will accept for just the system on its own; there's tons of extras thrown in. You might not be able to get it within budget, which is a shame; a Q6600 at 3GHz and a stock GTX280 is great kit, and the Q6600 might go even further. If you could get rid of the random stuff and drive the price down a fair bit you might be onto a winner...

The one for €850 is also good; not OCd but the HD4870 is a 1GB version, which is almost overkill for you If you can't get the above system down enough this is a good second choice; just wish that was a quad CPU for all the apps work...

gimme5minutes

Ok cheers, I might make an offer for the quad core, see if i can bring him down a bit.

I also have one other option, and that is to go for komplett who can have the goods ready to pick up in 2 days, which is about as long as I can afford to wait. I put together this build, would you mind pointing out any flaws you see in it to me and if you have any suggestions on how I could shave €200 off Id love to hear them. Also would the motherboard i selected have ethernet and wireless built in?

The laptop im using to post this is so crap i cant fit the build in one image, have to use two lol.

Solitaire

Lots of issues:

CPU and mobo are fine, though seeing as you probably don't need RAID5 you could get away with a cheaper 770/SB710 mobo, they don't lag at all performance-wise and you probably don't need CrossFire in the immediate future.

RAM: ?! Why are you trying to buy 8 1GB sticks? That won't physically fit! Just get a single 2x2GB kit.

GPU: Overkill. Even if you want CUDA. The GTX280 in that Adverts system was just a nice bonus, for a new build you simply don't need that amount of firepower. If you're dying for CUDA then a cheap (55nm) GTX260 is the absolute maximum; otherwise look for an even cheaper HD4870 (512MB version is fine at your resolution). Even a HD4850 will suffice at a pinch.

HDD: WTF?! :eek: Get a normal SATA2 HDD, 500GB+. Should not set you back more than €80 even for 1TB.

Case: Very nice. Bodering on overkill, but very nice

PSU: That is overkill. Wallet-rapery overkill. No need at all for a good-brand 850W, so long as you don't try to add a second graphics card or abuse watercooling or something mental I don't see the need for anything past 650W. Hell, even a VX550W would work if you don't go nuts OCing everything!

Solitaire

I'm on the warpath:



I sure as hell hope Operation: Liberation doesn't rely on a fast delivery - DHL Express is weight-dependent. For a full system the Express delivery is €199 :eek:

Effluo

yeah i was just comparing prices with a site i found.

Delivery ended up being over 80 euro!

gimme5minutes

Solitaire wrote: »

I'm on the warpath:



I sure as hell hope Operation: Liberation doesn't rely on a fast delivery - DHL Express is weight-dependent. For a full system the Express delivery is €199 :eek:

Hehe, I had put together a revised build but I'm not gonna bother posting it as that is prob alot better than what i came up with. About the 8x1Gb, I actually thought I had selected 4x2Gb

One issue I have though is the HD 4870. It seems there are still issues using ATI cards with linux, ive asked around on the linux forums but seems i can't get a straight answer. So with that in mind I would prob switch the 4870 for a gtx 260.

Im not sure where you are getting the 199 express delivery from, as far as I know you can collect your components from komplett's pick up point for little or no fee?

So mate, do you think i'd be better off shelling out 800 for this system from komplett as opposed to getting the second hand quad core off adverts.ie?

Solitaire

gimme5minutes wrote:

It seems there are still issues using ATI cards with linux, ive asked around on the linux forums but seems i can't get a straight answer

Probably because they're all using different distros and old drivers. ATI has made a huge push into Ubuntuland recently; they've had solid Linux drivers for a good few, er, weeks now But some old distros could be causing problems with the new driver packages that up-to-date users aren't getting. And given the fast development of the drivers (which up to recently were naff) anyone who's still using outdated and/or unstable beta drivers deserve all the glitches they get and have no right to complain :P

Im not sure where you are getting the 199 express delivery from, as far as I know you can collect your components from komplett's pick up point for little or no fee?

Then you're fine, I was talking about the super-dee-duper express delivery option. Didn't know you were within range of blanch for a pickup

So mate, do you think i'd be better off shelling out 800 for this system from komplett as opposed to getting the second hand quad core off adverts.ie?

Toughie. Both are good systems This one is a little more powerful and a little more up-to-date plus upping the CPU speed is a matter of simply raising the multiplier, but if you can force the price down the second-hand system is still a seriously tasty piece of kit

gimme5minutes

OK I think ill go for the komplett build, as i said earlier most guys selling on adverts.ie dont grasp the concept of second hand goods so i dont myself getting the intel quad core for less than this brand new system from komplett. Can't for the life of me figure out how these guys expect to get so much for second hand 6-12 month old pcs when brand new more up to date specs can be bought online for the same price or cheaper.

Ok cheers for all the help mate.

marco_polo

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Hehe, I had put together a revised build but I'm not gonna bother posting it as that is prob alot better than what i came up with. About the 8x1Gb, I actually thought I had selected 4x2Gb

One issue I have though is the HD 4870. It seems there are still issues using ATI cards with linux, ive asked around on the linux forums but seems i can't get a straight answer. So with that in mind I would prob switch the 4870 for a gtx 260.

Im not sure where you are getting the 199 express delivery from, as far as I know you can collect your components from komplett's pick up point for little or no fee?

So mate, do you think i'd be better off shelling out 800 for this system from komplett as opposed to getting the second hand quad core off adverts.ie?

There is no denying that there have been serious issues even up to the recent past, but I think those days are largely gone and not coming back, <fingers crossed>. I have a HD4870 and I have only had an issue with compiz and full screen video but apart from that the latest ATI properitory drivers (9.6) are pretty rock solid, and reading around the impression (again hard to get solid info on linux forums) I got was that the compiz issue is not entirely ATIs fault.

I hate compiz anyway so it is not an issue for me, far too flash IMO
But if you want to watch fullscreen video and compiz, it simply a matter of turning it off currently, untill it is sorted (hopefully 9.7).

I don't think it justifies not getting a HD4870, which gives you a better back for your buck than the 260.

gimme5minutes

Ok the pc is ordered, prob be ready for pickup tomorrow but Im away for a few days. Made two changes, I bought a second hand gtx 285 for about the same as the new gtx 260 was gonna cost me...and upgraded the psu to 750w.

So whats the deal with putting it together.....do I need to get some extra stuff such as thermal paste/etc or will nothing extra be needed?

What's the deal with cooling, I won't be overclocking it so I take it I won't need to get any extra cooling stuff?

Are there any potential pitfalls to watch out for when putting it together?

Cheers.

Solitaire

gimme5minutes wrote:

So whats the deal with putting it together.....do I need to get some extra stuff such as thermal paste/etc or will nothing extra be needed?

If you stuck with the Antec 900 it comes with a fine bevvy of fans so no problems there And if you're not OCing the X4 and didn't get an aftermarket cooler then the one which comes with it will do fine (given the case it'll be in ) and comes with a pre-applied thermal sheet so no issues there either

As for putting it together? Just take your time and make sure all connections are solid. Be careful not to fumble the mobo as you're inserting it into the case so you don't gouge it on the standoffs; pretty unlikely though given the amount of room you'll have to work with inside the 900

Also bear in mind that while not essential with a non-backplate cooler the CPU cooler can be easier to install before you screw the mobo down inside the case!

gimme5minutes

Cheers for all the help solitaire, new pc is an animal!