New Credit Card License.

Red Renard

3 year License


What percentage of renewals do you think under the old 1 year license had some kind of clerical error, processing the license. Had you ever incorrect information printed on your license requiring it to be amended at the station. Typical errors
as follows.

• Wrong pulse number error.
• Incorrect firearm identifying number error
• Wrong firearm maker's name error
• Caliber error
• Wrong name and address / failure to process address change error.
• License not stamped error

It is reasonable to believe these type of clerical errors are common place and still will occur under this new 3 year license.
The manual format worked, amendments to a license previously were easily corrected locally; this is all set to change when the credit card sized license is issued. Similar to electronic voting, what looks at first- hand to be progress made modernising with a smart system, can often hit unforeseen / forceseen difficulty once made operational . The ease of amending errors is evident using the old licensing method of paper and ink. "If the new license card" is not user-friendly and infact may be the cause of many more problems than it solves; then this will not be the modernising of the system as intended!


Credit card license V European Pass / Passport page booklet.


Credit cards do suffer from wear and tear, fact.
They are small enough to be easily misplaced
Any clerical errors / changes will require the processing of a whole new application.

European Pass / Passport page booklet are used by millions of people as the most suitable form of document to produce to state officials on request. Should it not be the same for firearm-owner identification. Using this system all your firearms can be listed / processed in one practical booklet. Amendments are once again made easy fulfilling what supposedly is an updating of the system. Wanton waste of many unnecessary pages of paper work not relating to the most common firearm holder in the country, the farmer's shotgun. (seperate shotgun application forum in the uk ) does question the logic of this new license in credit card size.

rrpc

Many of the errorrs on the old system were caused by the fact that the applicant in many cases didn't fill out the form. I know that in the case of two of my licences and three substitutions I didn't even see the form other than to sign it.

This time we all get the form, so any mistakes will most likely be our own.

marlin vs

Have to say I never had a problem, hopefully it'll stay the same touch wood.

Our man in Havana

rrpc wrote: »

Many of the errorrs on the old system were caused by the fact that the applicant in many cases didn't fill out the form. I know that in the case of two of my licences and three substitutions I didn't even see the form other than to sign it.

I agree with you 100%. I never completed my own forms. "Sign here and we will do the rest" was all I was told. Thankfully there were no mistakes.

rrpc wrote: »

This time we all get the form, so any mistakes will most likely be our own.

So will the forms be sent out with the extension letters?

No6

I got my first licence recently and it had that I am a member of a club which I'm not and told the guard at the time, I gave him permissions, what should I do??

J.R.

rrpc wrote: »

Many of the errorrs on the old system were caused by the fact that the applicant in many cases didn't fill out the form. I know that in the case of two of my licences and three substitutions I didn't even see the form other than to sign it.

This time we all get the form, so any mistakes will most likely be our own.

When applying for a .22 LR rifle 5 years ago I filled in the application form stating calibre ....licence came back stating it was a .22 Hornet.....I pointed it out to FO ....he said it'll be amended on renewal.....pointed it out at renewal & it was scribbled on renewal....came back .22 Hornet....have pointed it out at each renewal & has come back incorrect each time!

Odysseus

Bond-007 wrote: »

I agree with you 100%. I never completed my own forms. "Sign here and we will do the rest" was all I was told. Thankfully there were no mistakes.


So will the forms be sent out with the extension letters?

Same here just signed the form, this resulted in me only being allowed to possess 100 pellets. There was also a mistake with the serial number, the one on the licence does not correspond to the barrell of the rifle. The FO has been on leave so I had to write a letter explaining everything, and hopefully he will get it today.

I must have gotton one on the shortest licences ever, issued on the 13/07/09 expires on 31/07/09.

jwshooter

i have 4 pulse id numbers and my date of birth is wrong on one .
the new licence will be a night mare .

do we expect any thing less from this incompetent police force we have.

expect the worst from them and they will not be disappointed

Our man in Havana

At least you will get the free extension.

I got my first rifle licence on the 21st of June a few years back. Only had 6 weeks shooting before I had to pay again.

Rew

Lads unless you have genuine error figures this is allot of hot air. I have 5 certs and no problems to date. The complexity of the system is being reduced and there fore the potential for error. Anyone want to point out ANY system in this country that dosn't produce some precentage of error? Have any of these erros cause anyone a problem?

jwshooter

yes when sending a euro pass to the uk for a visitor's permit as age and numbers did not match.

just because you did never have a problem dont dismiss every one else.
were dealing with firearms and our police force ,not a tv licence

Rew

jwshooter wrote: »

yes when sending a euro pass to the uk for a visitor's permit as age and numbers did not match.

just because you did never have a problem dont dismiss every one else.
were dealing with firearms and our police force ,not a tv licence

And just because you have had a problem don't assume that everyone else has.

Yes is firearms licensing but as I asked already have any of these errors actually been a problem for anyone?

bunny shooter

Rew wrote: »

And just because you have had a problem don't assume that everyone else has.

Yes is firearms licensing but as I asked already have any of these errors actually been a problem for anyone?

Post #10 you asked same question and in post #11 jw has just confirmed he has had a problem and you ask the same question in post #12 ?

What am I missing ?????????????

I have had the wrong information come back on licences fortunately it has not caused me any major problems so far though.

Sikamick

Rew wrote: »

Lads unless you have genuine error figures this is allot of hot air. I have 5 certs and no problems to date. The complexity of the system is being reduced and there fore the potential for error. Anyone want to point out ANY system in this country that dosn't produce some precentage of error? Have any of these erros cause anyone a problem?

________________________________________________________________

Re the complexity of the system: I would think it is more complex now than it was before. 9 documents per firearms application plus two photos with each one, plus club membership letter and or lands permissions, complexity of the system reduced I don't think so.

Re percentage of error, this is a fact of life, people make mistakes, I think the original question is not so much that errors can and will happen but the complexity of correcting them is going to be a major problem. It will no longer be a situation of going to your local FO and have him correct it.

Re your comment (hot air) that's your opinion and does not help to solve or answer the question of firearms holders that have concerns /worries about the new system.

I agree with the original poster the system could have been made much simpler.

A question for you Rew, if a person has 5 firearms and has 9 documents for each firearm application and now has to supply 10 photos, 2 per application where is the logic in this especially when none of which are going to be on the new plastic license.

Sikamick

bunny shooter

Sikamick wrote: »

________________________________________________________________

Re the complexity of the system: I would think it is more complex now than it was before. 9 documents per firearms application plus two photos with each one, plus club membership letter and or lands permissions, complexity of the system reduced I don't think so.

Re percentage of error, this is a fact of life, people make mistakes, I think the original question is not so much that errors can and will happen but the complexity of correcting them is going to be a major problem. It will no longer be a situation of going to your local FO and have him correct it.

Re your comment (hot air) that's your opinion and does not help to solve or answer the question of firearms holders that have concerns /worries about the new system.

I agree with the original poster the system could have been made much simpler.

A question for you Rew, if a person has 5 firearms and has 9 documents for each firearm application and now has supply 10 photos, 2 per application where is the logic in this especially when none of which are going to be on the new plastic license.

Sikamick

Exactly :cool: That sums it up pretty much. No amending paper licence in Garda station now. We will have to send off whole lot again :mad:

Rew

bunny shooter wrote: »

Post #10 you asked same question and in post #11 jw has just confirmed he has had a problem and you ask the same question in post #12 ?

What am I missing ?????????????

I have had the wrong information come back on licences fortunately it has not caused me any major problems so far though.

That was my fault for answering while doing a few different things missed that.

bunny shooter

Rew wrote: »

That was my fault for answering while doing a few different things missed that.

Aw, that's ok, there's always people here to correct your mistakes

IRLConor

I've only had one error, that was on a Europass (the rifle is a Walther KK200 in .22lr). In fairness, my local FO sorted it out very quickly.



I wonder how another country would respond if I turned up at the border with a howitzer with "Walther 149" stamped on it?

bunny shooter

IRLConor wrote: »

.......I wonder how another country would respond if I turned up at the border with a howitzer with "Walther 149" stamped on it?

Love to see ya shoot 3P with that See I even have the lingo now :eek:

IRLConor

bunny shooter wrote: »

Love to see ya shoot 3P with that

If I had one, I reckon I'd have to take up shooting from (a very reinforced) bench.

bunny shooter wrote: »

See I even have the lingo now :eek:

:eek:

Will whoever hijakcked bunny shooter's account please give it back!

It wasn't me!

IRLConor wrote: »

If I had one, I reckon I'd have to take up shooting from (a very reinforced) bench.



:eek:

Will whoever hijakcked bunny shooter's account please give it back!

I reckon I'll have him shooting standing and kneeling only in a year, canvas and leather jacket and trousers out in the field to keep nettles at bay, no bunny within 700 yards safe as long as he has five minutes and unlimited sighters to take the shot.

bunny shooter

IRLConor wrote: »

.............Will whoever hijakcked bunny shooter's account please give it back!

fish slapped

The issue of bunny in leather when going shooting just keeps coming up so here's the photo again



:D FS

bunny shooter

fish slapped wrote: »

The issue of bunny in leather when going shooting just keeps coming up so here's the photo again


:D FS

My, I have lost weight

fish slapped

And shaved your belly :D

bunny shooter

fish slapped wrote: »

And shaved your belly :D

Didn't stop at me belly

PJ Hunter

as a matter of interest, has anyone / sport bodies got a look at the new license before it's put in the post. what's the material used to make it. plastic paper / cardboard, what details will be on it.

marlin vs

PJ Hunter wrote: »

as a matter of interest, has anyone / sport bodies got a look at the new license before it's put in the post. what's the material used to make it. plastic paper / cardboard, what details will be on it.

I saw it, it's cardboard and if you get a hole in you'r boot it comes in real handy.

Trojan911

Sikamick wrote: »

________________________________________________________________

A question for you Rew, if a person has 5 firearms and has 9 documents for each firearm application and now has to supply 10 photos, 2 per application where is the logic in this especially when none of which are going to be on the new plastic license.

I heard about the nine forms per firearm... my buddy has a combination of eight firearms, that's 72 forms, 16 photos...... he's going to be writing for a bit then...

rrpc

Trojan911 wrote: »

I heard about the nine forms per firearm... my buddy has a combination of eight firearms, that's 72 forms, 16 photos...... he's going to be writing for a bit then...

Trojan, it's one form which has nine pages. Not all the pages will need to be filled out. Some are for Garda use and some would be for different firearms.

So if he's got eight firearms, he's got eight forms to fill out.

Chinese whispers aint in it :eek:

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

Trojan, it's one form which has nine pages. Not all the pages will need to be filled out. Some are for Garda use and some would be for different firearms.

So if he's got eight firearms, he's got eight forms to fill out.

Chinese whispers aint in it :eek:

________________________________________________________________


Nine documents some of which you will fill out and some will be completed by the Garda, nine pages per application, not Chinese whispers, Department of Justice information.

This is still nine pieces of paper x your number of firearms plus club membership letter and or letters of land permissions, plus two photos per application which will not be on the license. The license will not be a business card type it will be a laminated credit card size document.

This is not Chinese whispers, smoking mirrors, rubber dolls or what ever else turns you on rrpc, this is from the DOJ and FPU yesterday.

Information/Misinformation is rampant within the shooting sports, no leadership and division is all we see. There is a large number of shooters/hunters/farmers that are not members of clubs/associations that haven't got a clue as to what is going on re the Mis Bill / three year licenses.

Why haven't the NGB's posted on their websites or sent sample copies of the license application documents and license for their membership to see.

Please comment rrpc.

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

Nine documents some of which you will fill out and some will be completed by the Garda, nine pages per application, not Chinese whispers, Department of Justice information.

No Mick, it's a nine page form. The old form was a two page one, the passport form is eight pages, the self assessment tax form is 24 pages, the driving licence form is four pages etc. We don't call the pages for each of thiose forms a seperate form.

A nine page form is not nine forms. It's chinese whispers if someone converts nine pages into nine seperate forms.

This is still nine pieces of paper x your number of firearms plus club membership letter and or letters of land permissions, plus two photos per application which will not be on the license. The license will not be a business card type it will be a laminated document.

Would you like to tell us how you know this Mick?

Information/Misinformation is rampant within the shooting sports, no leadership and division is all we see.

You'll see anything if it suits your purpose and you're looking for it.

There is a large number of shooters/hunters/farmers that are not members of clubs/associations that haven't got a clue as to what is going on re the Mis Bill / three year licenses.

They are either members of the IFA, the NARGC or the IDS etc. Anybody that doesn't fall into those groupings will unfortunately have to learn about it when the letter arrives in the post. Unless you are intending to identify them and let them know yourself.

Why haven't the NGB's posted on their websites or sent sample copies of the license application documents and license to their membership to see.

Perhaps because we haven't got any. The Gardai (who are producing these documents) haven't posted them on their website either. Perhaps you should phone them and point out their omission?

Please comment rrpc.

Glad to.

Traumadoc

Talked to my local Firearms officer, he has to deal with 450 applications!

This is going to tie up a lot of resources.

Our man in Havana

Nakatomi wrote: »

Talked to my local Firearms officer, he has to deal with 450 applications!

This is going to tie up a lot of resources.

No doubt that some people who apply in good time will find themselves in a pickle when their new licences don't come before the expiry of the extension period.

Processing 250,000 applications will be a massive task.

Hezz700

I'm sure this is not the only story like this...

I called into a neighbours last saturday for a chat and after a while talk turned to shooting. He asked had i got my renewals yet and was wondering why his had not yet arrived.
This man has has a .22lr for maybe 25years or so for abit of vermin control and was totally unaware of anything regarding the changes.

I dread to think how much confusion will ensue once these letters are popped through letter boxes.

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

No Mick, it's a nine page form. The old form was a two page one, the passport form is eight pages, the self assessment tax form is 24 pages, the driving licence form is four pages etc. We don't call the pages for each of thiose forms a seperate form. You are playing with words rrpc, as I have said nine pages that's it

A nine page form is not nine forms. It's Chinese whispers if someone converts nine pages into nine separate forms. If you have one firearm you will get one nine page document, if you have multiple firearms you will have one document x 9 pages for each firearm, not all need to be competed by you is that clear enough for you rrpc . Each set of documents has a page which is applicable to the firearm you are applying for.

Would you like to tell us how you know this Mick? I phoned the DOJ who directed me to the FPU and they were happy to answer my questions, maybe you would like to do the same and confirm my posting,[/S]

You'll see anything if it suits your purpose and you're looking for it.
They are either members of the IFA, the NARGC or the IDS etc. Anybody that doesn't fall into those groupings will unfortunately have to learn about it when the letter arrives in the post. Unless you are intending to identify them and let them know yourself.

I await your reply, hoping it will be after you call FPU and correct me if I am wrong.

In Sport.

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

You are playing with words rrpc, as I have said nine pages that's it

No Mick you said: "Nine documents some of which you will fill out and some will be completed by the Garda, nine pages per application"
So you said both.

In any case you attempted to correct me whan I responded to Trojan who was told that it was nine forms. For the rest of the world a form is a document that you fill out, not a single sheet of paper, so referring to each page as a seperate form is misleading and unhelpful.

If you have one firearm you will get one nine page document, if you have multiple firearms you will have one document x 9 pages for each firearm, not all need to be competed by you is that clear enough for you rrpc . Each set of documents has a page which is applicable to the firearm you are applying for.

It's one form, not a set of documents and surely there's more information required than details of firearms. Wouldn't they be interested in the applicant? Or is there a seperate form for that?

daveob007

I wonder are these new credit cart licences will be chip and pin???
good idea and better than a dealer having a book with the names and details of gun owners.
just buy your ammo and enter your pin and thats that,no book for the dealer to fill in and info would go into the garda database.

rrpc

daveob007 wrote: »

I wonder are these new credit cart licences will be chip and pin???
good idea and better than a dealer having a book with the names and details of gun owners.
just buy your ammo and enter your pin and thats that,no book for the dealer to fill in and info would go into the garda database.

Wouldn't it be great? I want the job of putting all that technology into the dealers.

My local dealer won't take even take laser or credit card, no way he would be able handle this! Would be pretty cool though.

rrpc

Just one other point on the "ohmigod nine pages to fill in!" mullarkey. I've not seen the form yet, but if it takes the approach of other forms, I'd say quite a lot of it will be explanatory.

It's not as though it's going to be nine pages of boxes with one word descriptions for each box. :rolleyes:

For those who do want to write for nine pages, I'm sure there's a facility for attaching essays

"What I did on my shooting holidays by ........"

Our man in Havana

Or simply nothing will change and the Gardaí will continue to complete the form themselves.

rrpc

Bond-007 wrote: »

Or simply nothing will change and the Gardaí will continue to complete the form themselves.

No, I think the form will come with your renewal. I'm not sure about this, but we'll know very shortly. It's also supposed to be downloadable, as are the guidelines.

fat-tony will tell you the story of how he was told he couldn't have a form because "you'd never know what you might do with it"

rrpc

rrpc wrote: »

No, I think the form will come with your renewal. I'm not sure about this, but we'll know very shortly. It's also supposed to be downloadable, as are the guidelines.

fat-tony will tell you the story of how he was told he couldn't have a form because "you'd never know what you might do with it"

The masked paper cut strikes again!
Its worse then a JCB or so I've heard!

fish slapped

I was talking to 2 lads I know, both in their early 30's, and shooting came up. I asked them what they thought about the new licence and form....

"what new licence ... what new form.... They can't do that, they haven't told anyone about it.... I'm not filling out NO F***ing form.... F***, F*** etc."

I asked them were they not told through their clubs or associations or read about it in ISD?

" ah sure those wa**ers they only bollox about talking sh1t, I wouldn't be bothered with them..."

This I fear is what we are seen as and is it any wonder the minister thinks he has it all his own way.:mad::mad::mad:

Sparks

Most folks don't bother to listen, read or anything else, and then they get all annoyed several years after it would have done any good. It's the far end of the 2% rule.

rrpc

fish slapped wrote: »

I asked them were they not told through their clubs or associations or read about it in ISD?

" ah sure those wa**ers they only bollox about talking sh1t, I wouldn't be bothered with them..."

This I fear is what we are seen as and is it any wonder the minister thinks he has it all his own way.:mad::mad::mad:

Or it's the usual defensive stance people take when they're confronted with something they should have known about.

Sparks' comment about the other end of the 2% rule is about right. There actually are people who would never bother to get involved and that's their prerogative and their funeral. :rolleyes:

Hezz700

There goes that 2% rule again.:)

You really are getting bitter in your old age Sparks:D:D:D:D

But seriously though, you are right.

PJ Hunter

jwshooter wrote: »

yes when sending a euro pass to the uk for a visitor's permit as age and numbers did not match.

just because you did never have a problem dont dismiss every one else.
were dealing with firearms and our police force ,not a tv licence

is there a problem friday if the extention letter is not in the post by today.
i know lads that are off tomorrow shooting over the long weekend:eek:

PJ Hunter

daveob007 wrote: »

I wonder are these new credit cart licences will be chip and pin???
good idea and better than a dealer having a book with the names and details of gun owners.
just buy your ammo and enter your pin and thats that,no book for the dealer to fill in and info would go into the garda database.

canadian possession license card. personal & firearm details on the magnetic strip.

after spending millions changing the licensing laws in canada, it now in trouble
many don't bother renewing:eek:





















http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=1496906&p=1
http://www.libertyincanada.ca/
http://www.pierrelemieux.org/policecanada/cafc-cfc.html
http://www.pierrelemieux.org/policecanada/hudson071101.html

PJ Hunter

Rew wrote: »

Lads unless you have genuine error figures this is allot of hot air. I have 5 certs and no problems to date. The complexity of the system is being reduced and there fore the potential for error. Anyone want to point out ANY system in this country that dosn't produce some precentage of error? Have any of these erros cause anyone a problem?

Got mine today, extended to 31/12/09.
Details of both guns incorrect (guns I sold late last year), but why am I not surprised? = milkerman

one genuine error coming up:o