Jamaican drug positives

RoyMcC

Not on BBC or Sky (or RTE ) yet but this could be very sad news.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20090723T220000-0500_156040_OBS_DRUG_CHEATS.asp

RealistSpy

I am not so suprised. I hope all the cheaters get caught!

thirtyfoot

Worrying:(

RealistSpy

The sort of things makes me angry. I am here working my backside off to be a good decent sprinter to find out that there people still cheating grrrrr "Fuming"!

PainIsTemporary

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/5899092/Five-Jamaican-sprinters-fail-drug-tests.html

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20090723T220000-0500_156040_OBS_DRUG_CHEATS.asp

PainIsTemporary

Makes for depressing reading. No names mentioned. 4 men, 1 women. Christ!

Loomis

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

Makes for depressing reading. No names mentioned. 4 men, 1 women. Christ!

"two men and the woman, are members of the country's 4x100m relay squads. "


So half the men's world record breaking, Olympic gold medal winning team could have been on drugs when they did it. That's crazy.

myflipflops

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

Makes for depressing reading. No names mentioned. 4 men, 1 women. Christ!

Depressing but not surprising really.

sickpuppy

Anyone with half abrain knows most elete sprinters are drugged to the eyeballs
why i dont even bother watching the olympics or tour de france either cheats vast majority.

PainIsTemporary

"The newspaper also reports that three of the athletes, two men and the woman, are members of the country's 4x100m relay squads."

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

So half the men's world record breaking, Olympic gold medal winning team could have been on drugs when they did it.

That's assuming they were on the Olympic squad and not the squad for World Champs...not sure if its a different line-up. If it includes the Olympic Relay team we know who were the 2 fastest members on the day. Jasus it's got the potential to be very bad...of Ben Johnson proportions.

Blisterman

Shame. Any word on who it is yet? If they were stripped of their medals, would that mean their world record was null and void, and it would revert to the second fastest relay team?

PainIsTemporary

From main page of www.letsrun.com

*Unnamed source: "The positive tests does not involve any of the top male sprinters. (sic) " [Phew...hope it stays that way]
*Unnamed source: "[At the Jamaican trials] at least 40 to 45 tests were taken."
*Unnamed source: "The five athletes are four male and one female."
*Dr. Herb Ellito of JADCO: "We are waiting to get some information and we are waiting on the facts."

Gringo78

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

Makes for depressing reading. No names mentioned. 4 men, 1 women. Christ!

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but what I took away from the article was that some sprinters on the fringes who did enough at the recent Jamaican trials to merit selection for a relay pool of runners (i.e not good enough for the individual sprint events) have been caught doping. Am I the only one who thinks thats actually good, that the cheats are being caught before they arrive at the major championships?

limerickleader

http://www.trackalerts.com/?p=2104

ecoli

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

"two men and the woman, are members of the country's 4x100m relay squads. "


So half the men's world record breaking, Olympic gold medal winning team could have been on drugs when they did it. That's crazy.

This is the key word here as there are six runners on the squad two as substitutes meaning it could be the two who not part of the team

shels4ever

sickpuppy wrote: »

Anyone with half abrain knows most elete sprinters are drugged to the eyeballs
why i dont even bother watching the olympics or tour de france either cheats vast majority.

Terrible view of sport.

shels4ever

Blisterman wrote: »

Shame. Any word on who it is yet? If they were stripped of their medals, would that mean their world record was null and void, and it would revert to the second fastest relay team?

It says Relay tool and not squad so it may not be any of the members fo the olympic squad.

ecoli

sickpuppy wrote: »

Anyone with half abrain knows most elete sprinters are drugged to the eyeballs
why i dont even bother watching the olympics or tour de france either cheats vast majority.

With the imoprovements over years in drug detection this is completely unfounded sure there have been some, these have been caught and punished. Look at Dwain Chambers even back from his ban his career has been ruined so i dont feel that you can take such a narrow minded view on it

Noffles

Losers don't do drugs!

Loomis

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

"The newspaper also reports that three of the athletes, two men and the woman, are members of the country's 4x100m relay squads."



That's assuming they were on the Olympic squad and not the squad for World Champs...not sure if its a different line-up. If it includes the Olympic Relay team we know who were the 2 fastest members on the day. Jasus it's got the potential to be very bad...of Ben Johnson proportions.

ecoli wrote: »

This is the key word here as there are six runners on the squad two as substitutes meaning it could be the two who not part of the team

It's why I said "could" lads.

Initially when I read it it seemed more like fringe runners alright. But as others say the potential is there to be a very significant day for the sport.

ecoli

One way to check it out would be check the relay teams for Crystal palace this weekend and see is there any last min swaps

RoyMcC

BBC now understands they are 'low level' offences - maybe that funny stuff they smoke in Kingston

ecoli

Yohan Blake ran today so i say we can safely tick his name off the list

Woddle

Just wondering what you guys think but I'm watching the athletics on BBC and I can't help but get annoyed everytime I see that muppet track reporter trying to get a reaction from the Jamacan athletes, surely there there to race and not be asked about this, both Powell and Bolt still have a final later to run and surely thats where there focus should be.

ecoli

ecoli wrote: »

Yohan Blake ran today so i say we can safely tick his name off the list

Forget this theory as the athletes have not even been contacted at this stage so havent been suspended from competetion yet but it looks like they all failed for the same substance apparently as the IAAF official report referred to a "substance" rather than multiple

RoyMcC

Woddle wrote: »

Just wondering what you guys think but I'm watching the athletics on BBC and I can't help but get annoyed everytime I see that muppet track reporter trying to get a reaction from the Jamacan athletes, surely there there to race and not be asked about this, both Powell and Bolt still have a final later to run and surely thats where there focus should be.

Absolutely. I can't imagine why the BBC insist on doing these inane soundbites with the athletes anyway. And that particular half-baked guy gets me doubly annoyed :mad:

sickpuppy

ecoli wrote: »

With the imoprovements over years in drug detection this is completely unfounded sure there have been some, these have been caught and punished. Look at Dwain Chambers even back from his ban his career has been ruined so i dont feel that you can take such a narrow minded view on it

Ok lets look at past champions in premier race 100 metres sprint 1988 ben johnson drug user caught
1992 linford christie drug user caught
justin gatlin 2000 champion currently on a four year ban.
I can only imagine how hard it is to win by staying clean so personally i have no faith in sprinters and cyclists its just an opinion backed up by evidence.

ecoli

sickpuppy wrote: »

Ok lets look at past champions in premier race 100 metres sprint 1988 ben johnson drug user caught
1992 linford christie drug user caught
justin gatlin 2000 champion currently on a four year ban.
I can only imagine how hard it is to win by staying clean so personally i have no faith in sprinters and cyclists its just an opinion backed up by evidence.

3 athletes is a high number ill admit but what bout the other 18years in the time span you have laid out. There is a major world event (WC and Olympics) every 2 years so that 3 out of 12 but you are tarnishing 3/4 of the champions by not giving them a chance

ecoli

Here is another fact for you. 13 fastest of all time with legal wind

1 9.69 0.0 Usain Bolt Jamaica 16 August 2008 Beijing
2 9.72 +0.2 Asafa Powell Jamaica 2 September 2008 Lausanne
3 9.77 +1.6 Tyson Gay United States 28 June 2008 Eugene
4 9.79 +0.1 Maurice Greene United States 16 June 1999 Athens
5 9.84 +0.7 Donovan Bailey Canada 27 July 1996 Atlanta
+0.2 Bruny Surin Canada 22 August 1999 Seville
7 9.85 +1.2 Leroy Burrell United States 6 July 1994 Lausanne
+0.6 Justin Gatlin United States 22 August 2004 Athens**
+1.7 Olusoji Fasuba Nigeria 12 May 2006 Doha
10 9.86 +1.2 Carl Lewis United States 25 August 1991 Tokyo
−0.4 Frankie Fredericks Namibia 3 July 1996 Lausanne
+1.8 Ato Boldon Trinidad and Tobago 19 April 1998 Walnut
+0.6 Francis Obikwelu Portugal 22 August 2004 Athens


* athletes banned for doping


1 in 13 really dont paint the whole picture

sickpuppy

ecoli wrote: »

3 athletes is a high number ill admit but what bout the other 18years in the time span you have laid out. There is a major world event (WC and Olympics) every 2 years so that 3 out of 12 but you are tarnishing 3/4 of the champions by not giving them a chance

right so these guys just took whatever banned substance once and got caught
how unlucky:rolleyes:
anyone even a big fan of these sports knows that widespread drug abuse is rampant the ones not getting caught obviously have better chemists.
and until people stop getting caught there appeal will lessen.

ecoli

sickpuppy wrote: »

right so these guys just took whatever banned substance once and got caught
how unlucky:rolleyes:
anyone even a big fan of these sports knows that widespread drug abuse is rampant the ones not getting caught obviously have better chemists.
and until people stop getting caught there appeal will lessen.

Oh i forgot that anyone who is a chemist obviously making drugs as opposed to making detection methods. Billions is put into detection research now while i do feel there are few who manage to to slip through the net but at the end of the day drugs are rampant in all sports it does not mean that all athletes are tarnished with the same brush. Football, Cricket, Swimming cycling are just a few who have reported cases that come to mind off hand.
When you can come back with any shred of fact to back up your accusation come back to me because so far you havent presented anything but hear say regarding drug manufacturing, drug detection or any other aspect of your argument

A P

I still watch the 100m & 200m with interest, but a roll-call of Tim Montgomery, Linford Christie, Kelli White, Marion Jones, Torri Edwards, Dwain Chambers, Justin Gatlin, Kenteris, Thanou etc make me watch the races with scepticism. Same with the cycling.

I'd highly recommend reading 'Game of Shadows' by Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada. It goes through the Balco scandal - the likes of Montgomery, Jones and Chambers were taking drugs that couldn't be detected at the time. If a sample of THG hadn't been sent in anonymously to the drug detection agency, their results and times would still stand. How many other THG's are out there is the question. I'd like to think that the drug testers are catching up with the cheats, but with people like Victor Conte on this planet - I have my doubts.

ecoli

A P wrote: »

I still watch the 100m & 200m with interest, but a roll-call of Tim Montgomery, Linford Christie, Kelli White, Marion Jones, Torri Edwards, Dwain Chambers, Justin Gatlin, Kenteris, Thanou etc make me watch the races with scepticism. Same with the cycling.

I'd highly recommend reading 'Game of Shadows' by Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada. It goes through the Balco scandal - the likes of Montgomery, Jones and Chambers were taking drugs that couldn't be detected at the time. If a sample of THG hadn't been sent in anonymously to the drug detection agency, their results and times would still stand. How many other THG's are out there is the question. I'd like to think that the drug testers are catching up with the cheats, but with people like Victor Conte on this planet - I have my doubts.

I think the new rule that a sample can be held and tested for up to 8 years will provide a major breakthrough as it will give the detection technology time to catch up

A P

Indeed - that's a very welcome step, as is the blood passport profile used in cycling.

eon1208

Woddle wrote: »

Just wondering what you guys think but I'm watching the athletics on BBC and I can't help but get annoyed everytime I see that muppet track reporter trying to get a reaction from the Jamacan athletes, surely there there to race and not be asked about this, both Powell and Bolt still have a final later to run and surely thats where there focus should be.

Would it not be great if we had that guy in Ireland on RTE promoting athletics as a TV spectacle here in Ireland. The coverage the sport gets is a disgrace as it is.

Running Bing

I think the timing was unfortunate as it threatened to overshadow the racing. I do think BBC could've toned it down a bit though and I think it was unfair to ask athletes right after a race about how they felt about their countrymen/women being caught.


I dont really get the attitude though "ah sure their all on something"

If I was to count the athletes who have tested positive versus those who have not over the years it would be very one sided. Now granted if you have inside information about athletes taking drugs your making an informed opinion but to just pluck the idea out of the air that everybody is taking something, with no proof whatsoever, just seems cynical for the sake of being cynical.

I do believe doping is a serious problem and is more common than the tests suggest but when people say they wont watch athletics because everybody is cheating it just seems to blow things out of proportion.

RJM22

Sickpuppy are you kidding me...."their chemist's"

No - one has money for chemist's - look all that Roids/THG/HGH will do is make you recover faster from training- typically they'll just go into the gym and put on more weight and get slower.

I think freezing peoples pee is the best step yet.

But they should continously re-test anyone with spots on their back or wearing braces in my opinion.

To be honest I love watching the spirnts and I still have the utmost confidence in all the athletes competing that they're clean - most of the people that got caught we're obvious when you saw then line up at their blocks, you can almost pick them out. Still suspicious of Shawn Crawford and of Mo Greene's Athens Olympic season and of anyone associated with HSI though.

ecoli

The five have been named and it not good news for the sport. 2 of Bolts training partners included

Gazzetta dello Sport reported this morning that athletes involved are Yohan Blake, the 19-year-old training partner of Bolt, 200m runner Marvin Anderson, Commonwealth Games 100m champion Sheri-Ann Brooks, and 400m runners Allodin Fothergill and Lanceford Spence.


This will give Bolt skeptics fuel for the fire

RJM22

I'm pretty certain it will be marijuana as it mentions one substance and and misdemeanors.

Bans? maybe but certainly a non selection fro Yohan Blake for WC.

ecoli

RJM22 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain it will be marijuana as it mentions one substance and and misdemeanors.

Bans? maybe but certainly a non selection fro Yohan Blake for WC.

As far as i know no sanctions will be put in place until the b Samples come back and give the length of Ramzi's b sample testing the results of these might not be back in the next three weeks leaving him to be elegible to run

ecoli

A Reuters source seemed to confirm that notion.

"It's frightening, but all five tested positive for the same drug, although the five trained almost under different circumstances," the official said. "I can tell you that none of the world stars are involved. The drug itself is not an anabolic steroid and is considered a minor drug, meaning that with a good explanation at a hearing, the athlete could get off with a reprimand."

Elliott added that when all of the athletes were officially informed of the test results, a hearing would be held and a request made for the B sample to be tested. That hearing could come as soon as this week. According to JAAA regulations, no sanctions can be levied against the athletes until after that hearing and the possible testing of the B sample.

Pherekydes

The drug was actually named as methylxanthine.

According to WADA's files it's not even banned, but does belong to a banned category.

How are athletes supposed to know?

RealistSpy

Can't methylxanthine be found in some coffies?

ecoli

Pherekydes wrote: »

The drug was actually named as methylxanthine.

According to WADA's files it's not even banned, but does belong to a banned category.

How are athletes supposed to know?

Word is that it was in something in a product that was being sold at the Jamaican Trials. If so just a good thing the crowd werent tested to

Pherekydes

RealistSpy wrote: »

Can't methylxanthine be found in some coffies?

It's closely related to caffeine and I'm speculating that it's found in the same plants as caffeine. Consequently, it's probably found in your tea, chocolate, coke, etc.

Anyone for a dope test?

ecoli wrote: »

Word is that it was in something in a product that was being sold at the Jamaican Trials. If so just a good thing the crowd werent tested to

I think it's only fair to say that the product is Nutrilite, endorsed by many world class athletes such as Liu Xiang and Asafa Powell.

ss43

ecoli wrote: »

As far as i know no sanctions will be put in place until the b Samples come back and give the length of Ramzi's b sample testing the results of these might not be back in the next three weeks leaving him to be elegible to run

Positive A sample means provisional suspension as far as I know. Lagat missed World Championships when he had the positive A sample and negative B sample.

ecoli

ss43 wrote: »

Positive A sample means provisional suspension as far as I know. Lagat missed World Championships when he had the positive A sample and negative B sample.

According to JAAA regulations, no sanctions can be levied against the athletes until after that hearing and the possible testing of the B sample.


http://www.universalsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=13055&DB_OEM_ID=23000&ATCLID=204765482

DangerMouse27

Sorry E_Coli..i had to post a response to the comment for anyone to stop the hear say and stick to the facts...Did you read Dwain Chambers book?

He says that the guys on stuff would want to be having an awfully bad day to get caught.Such is the level of awareness of what the testers do, that the majority of illegal supplement taking goes on outside of season so the testers dont test as much.
FACT.they dont test as much out of season.
FACT.Jamaica is very lax implementing random drug tests.

There is a rule as used by Christine Ohorogou that miss three random tests and your banned.If you have missed two deliberatley, the counter goes back to zero after 18 months.
One of the ways to avoid the testers is the 'Duck and Dive' technique wherby athletes fill up their voicemails and avoid the testers leaving messages for tests. Thats fact!

I for one cannot take any doping bans,testing seriously until they annul the one world record that is beyond doubt illegal...womens 100m.
Then we can believe.

ChickenTikka

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

One of the ways to avoid the testers is the 'Duck and Dive' technique wherby athletes fill up their voicemails and avoid the testers leaving messages for tests. Thats fact!

I had thought the testers didn't give you notice of a test. Last year, the Sports Council's Anti-Doping Unit had a stand at the Irish Junior T&F championships in Tullamore, with officers from the unit giving information to athletes on the anti-doping and testing process. One of them explained that they just show up at your house and sit and wait for you ... that others in the house are not allowed to phone you to alert you or get you back early.

The following doc seems to support the 'no advance notice' policy:
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/Whereabouts%20Policy.pdf

Maybe its not the same in other countries?

eon1208

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

Sorry E_Coli..i had to post a response to the comment for anyone to stop the hear say and stick to the facts...Did you read Dwain Chambers book?

He says that the guys on stuff would want to be having an awfully bad day to get caught.Such is the level of awareness of what the testers do, that the majority of illegal supplement taking goes on outside of season so the testers dont test as much.
FACT.they dont test as much out of season.
FACT.Jamaica is very lax implementing random drug tests.

There is a rule as used by Christine Ohorogou that miss three random tests and your banned.If you have missed two deliberatley, the counter goes back to zero after 18 months.
One of the ways to avoid the testers is the 'Duck and Dive' technique wherby athletes fill up their voicemails and avoid the testers leaving messages for tests. Thats fact!

I for one cannot take any doping bans,testing seriously until they annul the one world record that is beyond doubt illegal...womens 100m.
Then we can believe.

What about the womans 10000m, surely as culpable here or am I off the radar.

ss43

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

Sorry E_Coli..i had to post a response to the comment for anyone to stop the hear say and stick to the facts...Did you read Dwain Chambers book?

He says that the guys on stuff would want to be having an awfully bad day to get caught.Such is the level of awareness of what the testers do, that the majority of illegal supplement taking goes on outside of season so the testers dont test as much.
FACT.they dont test as much out of season.
FACT.Jamaica is very lax implementing random drug tests.

There is a rule as used by Christine Ohorogou that miss three random tests and your banned.If you have missed two deliberatley, the counter goes back to zero after 18 months.
One of the ways to avoid the testers is the 'Duck and Dive' technique wherby athletes fill up their voicemails and avoid the testers leaving messages for tests. Thats fact!

I for one cannot take any doping bans,testing seriously until they annul the one world record that is beyond doubt illegal...womens 100m.
Then we can believe.

FACT. The above post is uncontestable due to having "FACT" written before the major points.

eon1208 wrote: »

What about the womans 10000m, surely as culpable here or am I off the radar.

Depends on whether you belive she was training way harder than the rest, taking a drug that nobody else can find or a combination of these or other factors. It's debatable nad has been discussed here before - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055564763&page=3