Is brian lenihan looking like taoiseach material

johnnyc

Just wondering whats people opinions of brian lenihan? lately he seems to have the backbone to tackle the big issues unions, nama, mccarthy report which is sadly missing from the brian cowen.

Number Nine

johnnyc wrote: »

Just wondering whats people opinions of brian lenihan? lately he seems to have the backbone to tackle the big issues unions, nama, mccarthy report which is sadly missing from the brian cowen.

He needs to use his backbone to tackle the banks for there lack of lending to business,after all Irish people are propping up these banks. for what? The whole thing is a joke !:mad::mad:

deadhead13

I'd imagine FF are heading for a long time in the wilderness come the next election, so he will be waiting awhile. But of the main candidates, and without knowing where the loyalties of the backbenchers lies, Lenihan is looking the most likely to be the next leader of the party. At the moment anyway.

DrumSteve

funny i was just thinkin the exact same thing... he'd be better taoiseach material than cowen anyways. doesnt seem to give a bollix about the unions.

Before Cowen took the hot seat I would have said certainly Lenihan was a future leader. Now I'm jnot so sure at all. His first year as Minister was so riddled with errors and stupidity that he has slipped back a good bit - frankly while he may have got to grips with his portfolio to some extent, I would have said that he shouldn't even still be in that job since the whole 'I didn't read all the report, I'm far too busy for that' fiasco. His popularity within the party, I suspect, has also slipped as many will blame the Unholy Trinity of him, Mary and Brian C for the local election wipeout.

SkepticOne

What he seems to be good at is using his legal background to defend whatever position he has to defend. He is very sophisticated in the way he gets his points across though I would wonder whether he has lost the ability to see things as they really are rather than as challenges of presentation.

goldenbrown

to discuss issues, take questions, would be better than Mr. Cowen

d'Oracle

He frames his issue dodging better than Cowen.

And OP, Nama and McCarthy are basically his brief.
He has to address them.
Just because he is not an incompetent, lazy, political coward like a certain other minister doesn't make him good.

But he certainly does have the guts to use logic in debate, which is more than can be said than most of Fianna Fails cabinet.

Number Nine

goldenbrown wrote: »

to discuss issues, take questions, would be better than Mr. Cowen

Anyone can discuss issues or take questions. But the question is what is he doing about it .
But to his credit I heard him on Joe Duffy around six weeks ago and he showed some heart towards a distort woman caller.

spank_inferno

Being "not as bad as the others" doesnt make one worth of leadership of any nation.

He is more prevelent in the media because Cowen has gone to ground for the last while.

This doesnt mean he's taking more of a lead and by his performance record it certainly doesnt mean that he knows what he's doing.

JonathanAnon

Should have been sacked immediately after his "well it didnt jump out at me" episode.

The only Minister who made herself available for questioning on the Leas Cross report and was then subsequently asked about McCarthy report was Mary Harney. None of the rest of them had the balls to face the nation.

This report should have been presented to the media by the Minister For Finance and the Taoiseach. Not just dump the report in the media, and head off on holiday report that these w*nkers took. I'd say Coughlan and Cowan were propping up a bar somewhere when it was released.

irish_bob

Number Nine wrote: »

Anyone can discuss issues or take questions. But the question is what is he doing about it .
But to his credit I heard him on Joe Duffy around six weeks ago and he showed some heart towards a distort woman caller.

i heard that , i believe the caller in question was a teacher who said the pension levy would effect her ability to repay her mortgage on a bulgarian property

Mario007

i was thinking the same thing OP. lenihan seems to actually got the message that the country is in shambles, in fact even the opposition parties dont like to think much about correcting the economy. lenihan is not afraid to open issues that are very unpopular but would get the country out of the trouble.
i do agree that last year he wasnt too good, but this year he seems to have regained his composure and is doing very well. it even seems that he IS running the country with cowen always gone and the department of finance is pretty much the most powerful of all the departments, even the unions have actually noticed this.

FlutterinBantam

Interesting thread.

first of all I was very surprised and disappointed at the performance of Brian Cowen since he became Taoiseach.

He was the bulldog on the Fianna fail side in the Bertie era ,always the one sent in to blow away the opposition and get down to brass tacks viz a viz disputes etc.

Indeed I remember one News at One interview where he tonked the HSE consultants rep and wiped him out.

Seemed the kind of guy we needed to shag some sense into the vested interests.

Point of all this is that now Lenihan is the guy in the hot seat and in my opinion doing well in fairness.

However being Taoiseach seems to geld these people and strong performers in the background don't progress to be good leaders.

How would he perform as Taoiseach?

Very hard to judge until he gets the job, based on the Cowen experience.

irish_bob

irish_bob wrote: »

i believe the caller in question was a teacher who said the pension levy would effect her ability to repay her mortgage on a bulgarian property

Permission to laugh?

Don't want to sound callous, but ffs, I'll save my violin for the homeless guy looking through bins tonight to get his next meal, or the fellow who has just been made redundant and is going home to tell the wife and kids that their future is going to be very different.

andrewdeerpark

Please do not forget the banks walked all over him that night end September 08 when he gave the blanket government guarantee. He blinked first in the negotiations.

Also not closing Anglo Irish is his biggest mistake, everybody wants to see that place shut instead he gave a guarantee covering everything on its books.

Add in NAMA the scheme to look after the bankers and FF tent developer following and we have a shambles of a minister.

We will be paying high taxes for the next 20 years to cover those grave mistakes. Resigning he should be (with his top finance advisors) not going for the top job.

ragg

A bulgarian property, Remember when estate agents were telling you, you were a fool if you didn't bye property in bulgaria, bulgaria FFS..

personally I don't think anyone in FF is Taoiseach material. As much as I hate the thoughts of kenny\gimore combo i think the fact of the matter is, we need a change, we need new ideas.

Cowan to me is incompitant, i'm sure every one has heard the roumers about him alluded to by someone else on this thread, im not going to libel myself by repeating them.

Lenehin, has taken the worst role at the worst possible time & is doing OK. the NAMA experiment will be his legacy!!

andrewdeerpark

ragg wrote: »

Lenehin, has taken the worst role at the worst possible time & is doing OK. the NAMA experiment will be his legacy!!

Remember every scheme in Ireland like NAMA historically has always been a crooked setup with people in the know making a killing from their contacts. This will be no different.... only higher taxes for the peasants.

jmayo

johnnyc wrote: »

Just wondering whats people opinions of brian lenihan? lately he seems to have the backbone to tackle the big issues unions, nama, mccarthy report which is sadly missing from the brian cowen.

First off I think this thread title is being pretty presumious.
Who the f**k wants another FF taoiseach ?
Lets have a show of hands.

Now it was one thing for bertie to pass the batten to biffo, but it is quiet another thing for biffo to pass it on again.
The next move is when the whole f**king lot of them use their government cars, paid for by us the taxpayers, to drag their sorry ar**s upto the Arás to submit their resignations.

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Please do not forget the banks walked all over him that night end September 08 when he gave the blanket government guarantee. He blinked first in the negotiations.

Also not closing Anglo Irish is his biggest mistake, everybody wants to see that place shut instead he gave a guarantee covering everything on its books.

Add in NAMA the scheme to look after the bankers and FF tent developer following and we have a shambles of a minister.

We will be paying high taxes for the next 20 years to cover those grave mistakes. Resigning he should be (with his top finance advisors) not going for the top job.

He didn't bother reading a complete report on Anglo which is now a millstone around the necks of every citizen of this country, he was the one that actually put that millstone in place that by all accounts his department, the central bank and other banks warned against.

Yep that is fine leadership material although in ff circles, he probably rates a genius :rolleyes:

Number Nine

He didn't bother reading a complete report on Anglo which is now a millstone around the necks of every citizen of this country, he was the one that actually put that millstone in place that by all accounts his department, the central bank and other banks warned against.

I would say it read it fully and just pulled a FF stroke as per normal . Now the wheels are off the wagon

Number Nine

Deleted User wrote: »

Permission to laugh?

Don't want to sound callous, but ffs, I'll save my violin for the homeless guy looking through bins tonight to get his next meal, or the fellow who has just been made redundant and is going home to tell the wife and kids that their future is going to be very different.

I understand what you are saying . But there was more to it that just a property in Bulgaria the woman was crying about.

manicmonoliths

Around the time when Cowen was announced to replace Bertie as Taoiseach I was disappointed that Lenihan didn't get the nod. He seemed much more competent, definitely the more professional of the 2 Brians at the time. I'm slightly embarrassed at the thought of Cowen meeting other world leaders as I generally wouldn't class him in the same calibre, I'm not saying I would consider Lenihan up there either but I think he'd certainly present a better image of Ireland than Cowen.

If in say 10 years time when the country has gotten tired of a FG/Lab government and decide it's time to switch back to FF, I'd like to see it led by Lenihan, he's definitely the best the party has to offer at the moment anyway.

Liam Byrne

manicmonoliths wrote: »

Lenihan .... seemed much more competent, definitely the more professional of the 2 Brians at the time.

Obviously looks can be deceiving; competence and "not reading important f**king reports don't go hand-in-hand.

manicmonoliths wrote: »

If in say 10 years time when the country has gotten tired of a FG/Lab government and decide it's time to switch back to FF

...I'll emigrate.

manicmonoliths wrote: »

I'd like to see it led by Lenihan, he's definitely the best the party has to offer at the moment anyway.

Probably true, but it's by no means a vote of confidence. A monkey throwing darts would do a better job than any of them.

Cowen had some potential, in that he didn't bull**** and arse-lick like that plonker before him. Unfortunately, he's lost that one-and-only commendable facet, and is now a complete disaster, spouting cliches and defending the indefensible, just like Haughey, Ahern, etc before him.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Mario007

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Obviously looks can be deceiving; competence and "not reading important f**king reports don't go hand-in-hand.

as i said many times lenihan last year and lenihan this year are like two different people, he definitely got much better in his department and right now he's the only one of the politicians can be trusted(but this is just judging the performance this year)

Liam Byrne

Mario007 wrote: »

as i said many times lenihan last year and lenihan this year are like two different people, he definitely got much better in his department and right now he's the only one of the politicians can be trusted(but this is just judging the performance this year)

Doesn't matter. He f**ked up in a SPECTACULAR way last year, and we'll be paying for it for decades. NOTHING he can do can excuse/repair that damage.

Besides, if the Irish electorate finally manage to see sense, he'll be retired by the time the FFers get back into power.

Mario007

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Doesn't matter. He f**ked up in a SPECTACULAR way last year, and we'll be paying for it for decades. NOTHING he can do can excuse/repair that damage.

Besides, if the Irish electorate finally manage to see sense, he'll be retired by the time the FFers get back into power.

well he did mess up in the way that he extended the guarantee on anglo, true. he can claim that that was the advice he got from his staff(which he does) and that he kicked out that staff got new experts in and thus the progression into being good minister for finance this year(this latter part he never said).

about FF getting into power when he retires...well i think we shouldn't have FG and Labour for that long...i mean as your sig says they'll get corrupted with power...

Liam Byrne

Mario007 wrote: »

well he did mess up in the way that he extended the guarantee on anglo, true. he can claim that that was the advice he got from his staff(which he does) and that he kicked out that staff got new experts in and thus the progression into being good minister for finance this year(this latter part he never said).

Nice try. But it was FAR too big a f**k up, and if you and he blame "the advice from the staff", why the f**k are we paying the idiot for ? His f**king signature on the odd document that he didn't even read ?

Either he has a responsible job, and gets paid accordingly, or he abdicates all responsibility (as FF have done consistently since the crash, blaming ONLY international stuff and arrogantly ignoring their own contribution to the LEVEL of crisis) and in that case, we shouldn't even be paying him.

Advice can be taken or ignored; they chose to ignore it when they were warned what was on the horizon, and they took it when inappropriate. The buck stops with HIM - no-one else.

Mario007 wrote: »

about FF getting into power when he retires...well i think we shouldn't have FG and Labour for that long...i mean as your sig says they'll get corrupted with power...

Well, apparently the Irish electorate tolerate, condone and reward incompetence and corruption for at least 3 terms, so that'll give us 15 years from this term.....

And whatever about power corrupting, I can't honestly see it EVER doing the same level of damage as it has for the past 10 years; the Irish electorate won't stand for this **** anymore, and so - even assuming they're as arrogant and corruptable as FF - FG & Labour will have to stay on their toes and not drop into the mire that FF are now associated with.

If anything good has come out of the last 15 years, it's the fact that people have woken up to the fact that we can no longer blindly trust business, banking and politicians to be ethical and work in our best interests, so we'll have an eye on them from now on.

Raiser

I'm confused - has Brian Lenihan actually gotten something right that I'm not aware of?

There's the publicly admitted gross failure to simply read critical documents, the raising VAT mistake, rushed Budgets drafted by his Babysitter, the multiple Bank fiascos - the most recent of which was him telling us all yesterday how happy we should be with PTSB raising rates.

- Or what about Brian Lenihan holding up a hastily made Sock Puppet called An Bord Snip Nua when serious cutbacks have to be made??? "Oh don't blame me the lowly Finance Minister of this Banana Republic - its really my friend Socky Snip who is making all the cuts" :mad:

That idiot could never, ever inspire trust or confidence in any thinking person for Gods sake - and whoever said above that Lenihan will be paying for key mistakes for decades..... Well that just sums up Irish Politics right there; there is no level of abject failure and demonstrated incompetence that will ever see an Irish Politician lose his job.

goldenbrown

have to decide whether brian cowen or brian lenihen should be government leader just now... I would choose Brian Lenihen as Brian Cowen might be seen as


'....the lesser of two evils....'

:cool:

eoinbn

He has tackled the big issues like nama, unions and the mccarthy report? Could you expand that and tell us how he did that? We don't know much about Nama and it hasn't done a single thing yet. The pension levy was the lesser of two evils in the case of reducing public sector pay. If the government cut pay it would of also cut the pensions of the retired PS workers- i.e a key voter group.

Finally the McCarty report- it's funny that you put it that way- don't you mean the An Bord Snip report? FF are just outsourcing the blame for the cuts that they will try, and fail, to implement and have the fall guy in place already! Heck they have given that report a new name and a face to go along with it.

Mario007

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Nice try. But it was FAR too big a f**k up, and if you and he blame "the advice from the staff", why the f**k are we paying the idiot for ? His f**king signature on the odd document that he didn't even read ?

Either he has a responsible job, and gets paid accordingly, or he abdicates all responsibility (as FF have done consistently since the crash, blaming ONLY international stuff and arrogantly ignoring their own contribution to the LEVEL of crisis) and in that case, we shouldn't even be paying him.

Advice can be taken or ignored; they chose to ignore it when they were warned what was on the horizon, and they took it when inappropriate. The buck stops with HIM - no-one else.

i agree with you that he does have to take the responsibility and blame. but with regards to anglo i think the only mistake he did was not reading the report(or not getting some of his staff to read it and refer back to him) and extending the guarantee to anglo. but then again you can argue that with the collapse of anglo and the 64bn in it would mean a total collapse of the irish economy. and yet again you could argue that a total collapse is what we need right now to finally see the end and start climbing up.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well, apparently the Irish electorate tolerate, condone and reward incompetence and corruption for at least 3 terms, so that'll give us 15 years from this term.....

And whatever about power corrupting, I can't honestly see it EVER doing the same level of damage as it has for the past 10 years; the Irish electorate won't stand for this **** anymore, and so - even assuming they're as arrogant and corruptable as FF - FG & Labour will have to stay on their toes and not drop into the mire that FF are now associated with.

If anything good has come out of the last 15 years, it's the fact that people have woken up to the fact that we can no longer blindly trust business, banking and politicians to be ethical and work in our best interests, so we'll have an eye on them from now on.

i do hope you're right there and that the electorate can change from one party to another if the current government is corrupt and arogant. what we need right now is a clear left right axis to be formed and then we'll finally have a proper political system

Mario007

eoinbn wrote: »

He has tackled the big issues like nama, unions and the mccarthy report? Could you expand that and tell us how he did that? We don't know much about Nama and it hasn't done a single thing yet. The pension levy was the lesser of two evils in the case of reducing public sector pay. If the government cut pay it would of also cut the pensions of the retired PS workers- i.e a key voter group.

Finally the McCarty report- it's funny that you put it that way- don't you mean the An Bord Snip report? FF are just outsourcing the blame for the cuts that they will try, and fail, to implement and have the fall guy in place already! Heck they have given that report a new name and a face to go along with it.

well nama legislation will be published this week and we'll have to wait and see how it is. i like the nama idea, i've lived through something similiar in slovakia when the banks fell from big loans to people that people could not pay back, back then the government created the 'state consolidation bank' which took on the loans.

he does tackle the unions, in fact he's probably the most hated man by the unions because he talks about issues that need to be done to salvage the economy. in fact even FG aren't doing this(and i am very disappointed) because up until now it was 'we can't tax but we need to cut' and when the unions stand opposed to cuts as well FG changes its rhetoric into 'we can't just cut everything'.

the an board snip nua report was a good thing, it was good that it was outsourced but the government should not hide away from it. i believe lenihan and harney were the only once to publicly defend it.

JonathanAnon

Mario007 wrote: »

he does tackle the unions, in fact he's probably the most hated man by the unions because he talks about issues that need to be done to salvage the economy.

I'm sorry Mario but this is not correct. Bertie gave the unions benchmarking without making provision for the fact that private sector wages could go down. This was a massive oversight in the agreement for which that government should be held responsible.

The government have done nothing to renegotiate this agreement, which they are perfectly entitled to do considering the situation in the private sector. The private sector has to pay for the public sector after all. They took 5% from the public sector, which is just to try to pay for their pensions, but besides this they have done nothing.

Words mean nothing from politicians, so just because he "talks about issues that need to be done", doesnt mean that he is going to take ACTION, which is what we need.

ynotdu

is,nt there a saying to the effect that people get promotions up to their level of incompetance?:D

seriously though as posters have said Lenihan took about a year to seem to be in any way on top of his department(and to be fair an economic tsunami hit him very shortly after his appt)is it a good time for a change of Govt?
the whole cabinet would be learning their portfolio from scratch at a Crucial time in our history.
Tired and stale though FF are on a purely SAVE IRELAND basis i,m going to bring up the old chestnut asking if a Govt of National Unity should be formed until the time an election is a Constitutainal imperitive?

Do they care enough about us to do this?

tlev

Brian Lenihan is about as competant as this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmt06yRlexY

Choosing from the current crop of FF ministers is liking picking from different venerial diseases, some are slightly less unpleasent but in the end you are still screwed.

ynotdu

Hi tiev i think you forgot to stop at the = while copying from youtube!
no worries sure the planet seems to have lost the ability to realise that 2+2=4:D:D:D

tlev

It was an ironic statment made by me...haha, I meant to do that :rolleyes:. He is as competant as someone who can't even put a youtube link into a forum post !

ynotdu

tlev wrote: »

It was an ironic statment made by me...haha, I meant to do that :rolleyes:. He is as competant as someone who can't even put a youtube link into a forum post !

Ah sure it WORKED from the email link,and now its WORKING here.
Glad work&working were not included in the blasphamy laws or we all be fined:D

thebman

ynotdu wrote: »

is,nt there a saying to the effect that people get promotions up to their level of incompetance?:D

seriously though as posters have said Lenihan took about a year to seem to be in any way on top of his department(and to be fair an economic tsunami hit him very shortly after his appt)is it a good time for a change of Govt?
the whole cabinet would be learning their portfolio from scratch at a Crucial time in our history.
Tired and stale though FF are on a purely SAVE IRELAND basis i,m going to bring up the old chestnut asking if a Govt of National Unity should be formed until the time an election is a Constitutainal imperitive?

Do they care enough about us to do this?

FF are on a save FF policy at the moment, nothing has changed.

Why would the opposition help FF save FF?

tlev

thebman wrote: »

FF are on a save FF policy at the moment, nothing has changed.

Why would the opposition help FF save FF?

You are right. It is much funnier to watch them bumble about by themselves. Maybe after a while the opposition will feel sorry for them.

Liam Byrne

Mario007 wrote: »

i agree with you that he does have to take the responsibility and blame. but with regards to anglo i think the only mistake he did was not reading the report(or not getting some of his staff to read it and refer back to him) and extending the guarantee to anglo.

So let me get this straight; you think his "ONLY" mistake was the humdinger that cost us SIXTY-FOUR-BILLION ?

And you STILL think he's capable of leadership ?

Can someone move this thread to the "jokes" forum ?

tlev

In a business he would have been fired for that humdinger! Or he could have had the decency to resign after that.

Liam Byrne

Anyone see the latest from this idiot ? He won't stop TSB raising interest rates because he doesn't want to "interfere with the running of a commercial operation" !!!!

Of course, giving them BILLIONS of OUR money isn't interfering; but telling them to cop on when they try to fleece us, and reminding them that they wouldn't have a business left only for us is a step too far ???? :mad:

We're expected to take the hit for the good of the country; meanwhile the banks can take that cash, and in addition then screw the average Joe to make more profit, without Lenihan lifting a fvcking finger to even wag at them saying "tut, tut" ? :mad:

AMAZING how when they're asked to stand up to the plate and represent the electorate, FF have a "hands-off, don't interfere" approach to so-called "regulation" and running businesses, and never want to interfere with the "free market" (first Aer Lingus, now TSB).

But when they're screwing us and abusing our money, they dive in there head-first without reading reports or seeing what's good for the country.

Can someone lock the doors of Leinster House while this shower of incompetent assholes is away for the summer, so they can't fvck us up any more than they already have ? PLEASE ?

To answer the OP's question; if you judge criteria for Taoiseach based on Haughey & Ahern, Lenihan would be PERFECT.

But if you judge it based on competence, consistency and the urge to do what's right for the country, responsibly doing what you're being paid to do.....

...then no chance.

Sand

Lenihan is better than Coughlan I guess.

Is that a recognised qualification?

Liam Byrne

Sand wrote: »

Lenihan is better than Coughlan I guess.

Is that a recognised qualification?

In FF it probably is.

But in terms of what the country needs and deserves.......not a hope!

funnyname

On mature recollection maybe not

johnnyc

In my opinion at the moment the department if finance can see the problem facing the counrty compared to the other departments.. Brian Cowen should be thrown into jail even the average joe soul can see the problems and how to solve these issues.

rcecil

So we replace one group of corrupt sell outs with another group. If you want an American style health care system where nearly 100 million have to tell their kids they can't see a doctor because their private hospital and their private doctor only accepts insurance they can't afford. Yes, I know the figure without insurance is ONLY about 46 million. But what about the others whose insurance is WORTHLESS and covers nothing? I had to pay 13,000 a year for blue cross/blue shield. As a victim of that system who nearly died I worry daily about the Harneys of FF and the privatizers of FG who can't wait to get their checks from the big corporations now stealing Ireland under your noses.

Corporate control promises a better life but only delivers the perks to the 5% at the top and their political shills....... The rest are considered sheep.

ninty9er

eoinbn wrote: »

If the government cut pay it would of also cut the pensions of the retired PS workers- i.e a key voter group.

A key FG/Labour voter group.

thebman wrote: »

FF are on a save FF policy at the moment, nothing has changed.

Why would the opposition help FF save FF?

Another way to put that is that if the opposition gave a **** about the electorate, it would be demanding it rather than an election it knows is not going to happen.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So let me get this straight; you think his "ONLY" mistake was the humdinger that cost us SIXTY-FOUR-BILLION ?

Can I see a breakdown of that 64bn and when the cheques were lodged please??

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Anyone see the latest from this idiot ? He won't stop TSB raising interest rates because he doesn't want to "interfere with the running of a commercial operation" !!!!

The banking system needed to be rescued....INTERNATIONALLY. In comparison to other countries, we're not half as bought into our banks. The British government is the majority shareholder in the majority of it's banking system...that's ridiculous.

Commercial issues like interest rates, are obviously changed for commercial and profitability reasons. The shareholders in these companies are entitled to that. The state is entitled to have it's money repaid, and if we want that to happen, we need to ensure these companies still exist.

If you're a PTSB customer and don't like it, then move!

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

The banking system needed to be rescued....INTERNATIONALLY. In comparison to other countries, we're not half as bought into our banks. The British government is the majority shareholder in the majority of it's banking system...that's ridiculous.

True, which is why I have absolutely no issue with rescuing the banks that behaved [relatively] ethically. But the "hands off" is applied far too selectively; if the banks have been rescued because they were essential to the economy, then they should now - having been rescued by us - act with at least some gratitude.

ninty9er wrote: »

Commercial issues like interest rates, are obviously changed for commercial and profitability reasons. The shareholders in these companies are entitled to that.

You're assuming that profit is the only driving force; the "interests of the shareholders" also take precedence, and since WE are now shareholders, OUR interests are also factors.

Also, those shareholders that you were so worried about were COMPLETELY screwed if it wasn't for OUR input; they'd have had NOTHING. So if they get no profit in the short-to-medium term - tough! They should be glad that we've given them even half a chance to have profit in the long-term.

Robbing dog-food from the St Bernard that rescues you is despicable; and it's also short-sighted and arrogant if he's the only one that can give you the route down from the mountain.

ninty9er wrote: »

The state is entitled to have it's money repaid, and if we want that to happen, we need to ensure these companies still exist.

BECAUSE Lenihan & Co f**ked up. We HAVE ensured that they "still exist". That's OUR job done. We have NO obligation to line their pockets further.

That's the key issue that I have with FF; they go on and on about how the situation that we're in NOW means they HAVE TO do certain things, and they accept NO responsibility for the fact that the situation we're in now is BECAUSE of their actions.

ninty9er wrote: »

If you're a PTSB customer and don't like it, then move!

I'm not. But I don't like to see ANYONE screwed over. But fact is that if PTSB get away with it, others will follow to ensure that they're not at a profit disadvantage.

And if my bank DOES follow suit, I'll be moving my cash to the Credit Union, or keeping it under the mattress.

bmaxi

Perhaps the question posed should have been "is Lenihan looking like leader of FF material", in which case the answer would have to be a resounding yes.
He has all the right qualifications. He has f*cked up his brief, he has misled the public and the Dáil, he is adept in sidestepping and avoiding awkward questions, in fact the only failing I can see is his, so far, inability to surround himself with fawning sycophants.