Element Six Closure - Disgrace of Government Inaction To Deal With Competitiveness

dixiefly

I posted this on the jobs board earlier -

I cannot express my anger enough at the way that manufacturing industry has been let rot in this country by the various governments over the last 10 years. It has been obvious since 2001 / 2002 that our cost base has been eroding. The signs have been there for everyone to see where well run manufacturing plants have closed and no effort by government to understand WHY this has been happening. I have experienced it myself at first hand and, man, it is not a pretty sight.

Every time there is a closure announcement we have the same lines from the same people while those that were paid a fortune ( and continue to be paid a fortune) to manage our economy did nothing about it and in reality f*cking ignored what was happening. Bertie didnt give a sh1t about it because he was too busy feathering his own nest and patting himself on the back for stuff he had a tenuous involvement in. Mary Coughlan is out of her depth, however is it her to blame for her incompetance or the idiot that picked her???

In industry, in order to be competitive, there are systems to investigate when problems occur and put in corrective action in order to prevent if at all possible in the future. Our so called leaders should have been looking for answers in 2002/ 2003/ 2004 as to why there was a steady drip of companies leaving. If they had then the corrective action may have been put in and the rot could have stopped. It mighnt have helped the company I worked for but it may have stopped the closures of the relatively higher end companies like Element Six, SR Technics, Dell, Boston Tullamore, Bausch & Lomb, Waterford Glass, ABB etc etc.

Did these half wits in Government not realise that if a number of companies were closing then it was pretty likely that other companies were also hurting and that eventually they would go the same way if something wasnt done about ie??? What were the senior civil servants & IDA guys saying? They should have been camped on Bertie's door instead of accepting their criminally high benchmarking payments.

I actually think that we have already crossed into the abiss on manufacturing and it will be so so so difficult to build any sort of a manufacturing base again considering the investments needed and how much of a foothold that China & Eastern Europe has taken.

Some people in the country dont care, various professionals etc who havent been effected by the recession - I overheard some the other evening and all they were talking about was holidays FFS!

Another one, there is as much talk about the redundancy payments. In my opinion the major issue is that hose jobs are gone for future generations and that there are less jobs in the area and so many more businesses will be effected.

mikemac

dixiefly wrote: »

Some people in the country dont care, various professionals etc who havent been effected by the recession - I overheard some the other evening and all they were talking about was holidays FFS!

Are they supposed to be miserable to show their solidarity?
What's wrong with discussing holidays? Everyone has done it, you've done it too!

Though I wonder why did Minister O'Dea and Coughlan went to Texas when it was too late?
For Dell, everyone knew it would close some day.
I forsaw it two years ago but that's nothing, there are posts on boards about Dell closing further back then that. Everyone saw it coming!

I don't know a whole lot about De Beers plant. Sad to see the place close, it's a prestigious company for sure.

drunken_munky52

Yes, the govt are partly responsible.

The bottom line is that we allowed our trade unions to demand massive increases in the minimum wage and the gvnt were happy to give this as times were good, so blame the trade unions aswell.

Trade unions should have predicted that the world market would eventually slow down and squeeze companies profits, thus causing many to move away from Ireland. Its all well and good the increased wages, but wouldnt it have been better to keep wages a bit lower rather than having no jobs at all.

Shame of every greedy Irish man and woman in this country for been too ignorant to see this coming, we the people let this happen.

Lets not forget the productivity problem i.e. we are lazy when it comes to work and thats why we dont have good quality goods and services.

Its all well and well giving the baby too much food and then trying to take it back from him before it makes him sick, what does the baby do > he cries

No. 11

Element Six Job Massacre a "Disgusting Stab in the Back of Workers"

The announcement by Element Six that it is to close its manufacturing base in the Shannon Free Zone has been slammed as "a disgusting stab in the back" and the redundancy package was called "derisory" by the Limerick Socialist Party this morning.

Spokesperson for the Socialist Party, David Vallely, said "The plan of Element Six to sack 370 workers is a disgusting stab in the back of workers who made this the biggest diamond company in the world.

"After forty years of making profits off the back of their workers in Ireland, they now want to jump ship. Workers must ask: where have the millions in profits from the last 40 years disappeared to? Element Six should be forced to open the books from over years, and explain where these profits have gone, especially considering the derisory redundancy package that has been offered. The profits the company made during the boom must now be reinvested in the recession to safeguard jobs.

"Losing your job in this economic climate means long term unemployment, which is why workers must fight not just for improved redundancy, but also to save the jobs. The sit in protest in February in Element Six is a miniature example of the kind of fight that now must be waged. Workers in Waterford Crystal and the Visteon factory in Belfast have shown that through organisation and workplace occupations, concessions and victories can be won. This fight is needed to draw a line under the race to the bottom being imposed by the bosses in an attempt to slash and burn all wages, making the crisis worse."

Santa Claus

dixiefly wrote: »

Some people in the country dont care, various professionals etc who havent been effected by the recession - I overheard some the other evening and all they were talking about was holidays FFS!

I got made redundant a few months ago so safe to say I've been affected by the recession but shock horror even though I'm unemployed and actively looking for work I'm still taking a holiday (it's a week in donegal but still) !

maddogcollins

and the sad thing about it is your week in donegal will prob cost the same if not more than a week in spain or somewhere hot!

Clareman

I was made redundant last year and all I got was statutory redundancy, companies don't have to give any more than that, if they want to, fair play, all the people affected now had the choice to take voluntary redundancy which was at a great level than it is now that it's forced redundancy.

As bad as statutory is when you hear of great packages being offered in other places, again we have it a whole lot better than most other countries.

Max001

SIPTU, as the shopfloor lead union on site and specifically the SIPTU Shannon Industrial Branch, let their members down extremely badly in the case of Element Six.

In the past and for many years its been possible for unions and company to conduct negotiations professionally and successfully, which until recently has kept the plant competitive.

The very, very sad fact is, that this weeks outcome need not have happened and the failure of SIPTU branch officials to engage constructively has cost hundreds of high calibre people their jobs.

Its true that the country has become less competitive in recent years as a place for inward investors, but Element Six as a company had a huge commercial and emotional commitment to the Shannon site.

I am a fair minded and reasonably objective person in most respects, however in this case I have no doubts, most if not all of the fault in this case, lies with the SIPTU Shannon Industrial Branch and there's a particular person there who should hang her head in shame, for ever more.

My heart goes out to all the hard working and extremely decent people in Element Six who have lost their jobs recently and who will lose their jobs between now and Christmas.

This tradegy need not have happened!

irishturkey

Max001 wrote: »

SIPTU, as the shopfloor lead union on site and specifically the SIPTU Shannon Industrial Branch, let their members down extremely badly in the case of Element Six.

In the past and for many years its been possible for unions and company to conduct negotiations professionally and successfully, which until recently has kept the plant competitive.

The very, very sad fact is, that this weeks outcome need not have happened and the failure of SIPTU branch officials to engage constructively has cost hundreds of high calibre people their jobs.

Its true that the country has become less competitive in recent years as a place for inward investors, but Element Six as a company had a huge commercial and emotional commitment to the Shannon site.

I am a fair minded and reasonably objective person in most respects, however in this case I have no doubts, most if not all of the fault in this case, lies with the SIPTU Shannon Industrial Branch and there's a particular person there who should hang her head in shame, for ever more.

My heart goes out to all the hard working and extremely decent people in Element Six who have lost their jobs recently and who will lose their jobs between now and Christmas.

This tradegy need not have happened!

I second that

golfball37

Surely to God of the jobs were of that high a calibre they wouldn't be represented by SIPTU?

SIPTU ain't responsible for the high cost of living either lads, its their duty to ask for more for their members to meet these rising higher costs. Whether its morally ok to ask for wage increases and demand x and y is another argument but you cannot chastise a Union for doing what it is paid to do- seek the best terms and conditions possible.

There's a an awful culture developing in Ireland of blame the working man and the Unions, the cost of Public Services for all our ills.

At least 10 of the 11 major manufacturers who have pulled out in the last 3 years all made massive profits the year they pulled out. All these figures are matter of public record. The recession is just a band wagon for profiteers to increase profits imo. If pulling jobs means people in Ireland damning the unions to hell well then its a bonus.

The fact of the matter is we could cut our Corp Tax even more and remain competitive if we weren't putting 4b into Anglo Irish. All our ills could be solved by letting this disgrace of an institution go to the wall where it deserves. The feedback from many International investors is that it makes Ireland look bad to be propping up this bank at any cost not the opposite as the govt hoped.

Max001

If you knew the SIPTU branch official that was leading negotiations with the company for the past three odd years, you'd understand that this was a train wreck waiting to happen. This was a person, that if the company said the sky was blue, she'd automatically assume it was red, until irrefutable independant proof was presented and lengthy negotiations had taken place, to agree that the sky was indeed blue. FYI I have the highest respect for responsible trades unions and in keeping some semblance of a balance of power between employees and employers, they have a valuable part to play.

Honestly and objectively, this need not have happened and in this case the majority of the blame does lie with SIPTU. It is possible that there's some fault that lies with the company, however the company has always engaged faithfully and genuinely with the objective of keeping Shannon part of Element Six. The unions didn't grasp or want to acknowledge that they needed to be more flexible and work with the company, not against it, to keep this site open. The fact that E6 has set up/bought plants in China and Ukraine in recent years was proof that Shannon needed to be flexible, even in the good times.

I'm pretty sure, with a different union or a different union representative who was more prepared to work with the company, until the economy turned around, this closure would not have happened. Make no mistake, with manufacturing etc going, there's no longer a case for E6 to maintain any other functions in Ireland.

One thought that may explain things better. Full time union officials, in negotiating with one company, constantly are wary of setting precedents in concessions, that other companies will then seek to achieve. Plus they have an politically based ideology to maintain based on for example, redistribution of wealth.

Ask yourself this, were the workers in E6 sacrificed by a union seeking to maintain terms and conditions and working practices elsewhere, with other employers across the whole island.

Theres no simple answer. However I have no doubt that the company wanted to find a solution if there was one to be found.

I repeat, for the last time, this need not have happened.

golfball37

I agree with you, every company should be dealt with different. But when you see what Tom Hogan, Lynch Hotels etc did with their money out of greed its only natural that someone would say this money would have been better off in the paw of the workers. Our region is in serious trouble. I'd rather 370 workers were overpaid than 1 bank or property developer. I don't think in the current environment we are directing our frustration at the correct targets. Unions are easy shoot down though I accept they must accept some portion of the blame.

Element 6 wanted to fly the nest as they could do the work cheaper elsewhere. Thats the bottom line really. Who to blame is just splitting heirs.

Clareman

Companies like to mix cost with experience, Dell Limerick was Dell's most efficient factory world wide, but it was too expensive to keep going, what did they do? Get the best of Limerick to setup Poland and then close Limerick.

You can say companies made money in the past, but the fact of the matter is that all they care about now is their share price and profits, now. If you want to say that a company should pay extra because they made more money in the past, why don't the employees give back their bonuses/share options that they got during the good times, add them onto their package and say they got more?

The Mid West is in serious serious trouble, but there's some great experience/knowledge in the region is a company could come in to harness it

Max001

You're right, that manufacturing in Ireland, has been on an increasingly sticky wicket due to increasing uncompetitiveness. During the property boom, everyone lost their minds and benchmarking was a disaster. As long as there was money aplenty, Bertie threw money at any problems that came his way including the social partnership. Now we need to reset our expectations as a nation and start all over again to make the country more competitive. However, the people in E6 Shannon had continually improved working practices and productivity over the past several years and shown that Shannon was a productive, site with negligible industrial relations problems. These things earned the Shannon site and employees huge kudos with E6 at the corporate level and collectively, the management team in Shannon was very high calibre and very highly thought of in the wider company. In other words, this was a successful, well led operation and its all been pissed away now, because of one dogmatic, mistrustful, abusive, unprofessional union branch official who would stoop to anything, to get her way. Thats the tragedy. I know it sounds incredible, but sometimes incredible things happen and afterwards we're left scratching our heads and thinking WTF!

dixiefly

Max001 wrote: »

You're right, that manufacturing in Ireland, has been on an increasingly sticky wicket due to increasing uncompetitiveness. During the property boom, everyone lost their minds and benchmarking was a disaster. As long as there was money aplenty, Bertie threw money at any problems that came his way including the social partnership. Now we need to reset our expectations as a nation and start all over again to make the country more competitive. However, the people in E6 Shannon had continually improved working practices and productivity over the past several years and shown that Shannon was a productive, site with negligible industrial relations problems. These things earned the Shannon site and employees huge kudos with E6 at the corporate level and collectively, the management team in Shannon was very high calibre and very highly thought of in the wider company. In other words, this was a successful, well led operation and its all been pissed away now, because of one dogmatic, mistrustful, abusive, unprofessional union branch official who would stoop to anything, to get her way. Thats the tragedy. I know it sounds incredible, but sometimes incredible things happen and afterwards we're left scratching our heads and thinking WTF!

That's incredible and, of course, sickening.

drunken_munky52

At the end of the day, money talks and shareholder's are the number one concern. E6 simply made a business decision to increase shareholder satisfaction. The same goes for Dell and even Sykes up the road.

irishturkey

As one of the 370 unmercifully screwed by E6 (oh you work for de beers? you're set for life mate...ha!!) I can safely say that the union has a hell of a lot to answer for. Since 150 redundancies were announced last November the union didn't win a single thing for employees until Thursday of this week when they got us back on full time for the remainder of the consultation period... a month!!! Don't get me wrong, after the last two months on 50% wages and three months before that on 66%, I'm grateful to get a full months wages again but its hardly a glowing endorsement on a union thats been happy to take €20 a month, rather a damning indictment!! But to put all the blame on the SIPTU branch officer isn't entirely correct. The E6 SIPTU committee weren't exactly confidence inspiring. To quote the chairman after the 370 jobs were axed... "Well... eh lads... eh... that was.... eh.... some kick in the hole". This attitude went further down the ladder with the committee with certain shop stewards failing to make representations on behalf of employees because of personal grudges.

But personally I believe we got shafted by a crowd of mercenaries who saw a recession and decided to bail regardless of the ability of the company to get through it which, as someone on the inside could see, we would have done and were already starting to do. In mid 2008 an order book could contain 70,000 to 100,00 units on order. The company saw fit to pay people their full wages then and overtime on top of it. In the week running up to the stabbing in the back, there was 95,000 units on order. Despite us being on 50% of our wages, people were getting an extra day or two every week to keep orders met. Slowly but surely, it was visible all over the plant, Syndite, Syndrill, Diamond section, there was work to be done, and people wanted to do it but the powers that be had alterior motives.

A new HR manager was brought in last year despite having a ready made candidate ready to walk into the job already employed within the company. This may be pure speculation but I would bet that once they have finally removed us from the site (which they have a lot of work to do yet to achieve) the HR manager brough in last year will get his retainer for a job well done, fcuk off into the sun, and the previously mentioned ready made candidate will step into the breach.

I know a lot of people will think I'm biased and obviously I am. But I have friends that have worked there for 25, 30 years and after years of generally good memories, a cash rich, multinational that has constantly blown its competition out of the water has left them with one abiding memory... being screwed!!! I've only been there 6 years and have no meaningful ties so I consider myself lucky enough. Unfortunately too many families are in the total opposite end of the spectrum. Husbands and wives, brother and sisters, fathers and sons... full families shown total and utter disdain by creeps with no morals.

I don't blame the HR manager for this. He has no ties to the company. He's been brought in to do a job but what about the General Manager who's been served so bloody well since he arrived. What fight has he made for Shannon? Does he even care? When he watched the news in the evening I wonder if he felt even a tinge of guilt for the decimation he was after causing. I don't accept that he was following instructions. If that was all he was doing then surely CEO Cyrus Jilla should have been making the announcement.

One thing left to say. 370 people have been told their jobs are gone, this has become a fact of life in Ireland and has now to be accepted. What doesn't have to be accepted is the insulting redundancy package offered by E6. I'm actually shocked that people can think "you're getting more than statutory which is all you're legally entitled to" or "fair play to the company for giving more than they have to". Thats absolute horse poo poo!! People need to know in no uncertain terms this company are not on their knees. They are cash rich. They're moving away, not closing. They've refused to say where they're moving operations to. They've refused to say who the 80 jobs will be going to that will stay in Shannon. The previous Operations Manager took redundancy last January at a cost of €500,000, yes half a million euro. The previous HR manager left with the same amount of money. Are we, the people who made this money for that shower of you-know-whats, supposed to believe that they could afford to blow a million on two men last January and now 370 of us have to divide €6.5 million amongst us? Come off it!! I might not be the most educated man on the planet but I'm no idiot either and I won't be treated like one. Especially not by people who haven't got the decency to tell the truth. So while they keep up this charade of poor mouthing to us, we've downed tools. And this will continue for as long as it takes. We've had messages of support from TD's (if they can be taken at their word), I was talking to one of the lads yesterday and he told me theres people sitting in all weekend to make sure no machine is removed from the site. Neither De Beers nor Element 6 staff have ever been the militant type, we haven't needed to be because we've always got our just deserves. I don't want to sound over dramatic but the company have started something ugly here. They have 370 people, 370 angry people, with nothing to lose. And they're trying to screw us. You wouldn't believe the spirit being shown by workers. People who haven't spoken in years are pulling together, I know this from personal experience. This is similar to Waterford Crystal. If we have to go to extremes, we will, they shouldn't doubt us. We, the workers made that company, we won't let go without a fight.

Run_to_da_hills

I was chatting to a guy from Lodz that moved back after things went belly up here. I asked him was he working at the Dell new complex, he told me no way, that the pay was far too low at just €400 to €500 a month for assembly workers.

There is little our nothing our government can do to stop this mass exodus of multinational when the Global economy gets tough. Are we willing to work for half of what we get on the dole? I doubt it.

The Government should now be concentrating on what we can do for ourselves without depending so much on theses monsters. For starters axe the e10 tourist tax imposed in the last budget so that the hospitality industry can take a break.

There is no such thing as company loyalty, De beers (Which owns Element 6 ) is a ruthless multi billion dollar diamond exploiting company that had the monopoly on the industry for well over a century. The don't give toss about this country or its workers just like all the others that have pulled the plug.

This gives you some idea of the scale of the De Beer group of companies
De Beers Canada - mining
De Beers Consolidated Mines - mining
De Beers Diamond Jewelers - retail
Debswana - mining
Diamdel - trading
Diamond Trading Company - trading
Diamond Trading Company Botswana - trading
Diamond Trading Company South Africa - trading
Element Six - Advanced Materials / industrial diamonds
Forevermark - retail
Namdeb - mining
Namibia Diamond Trading Company - trading

Kradock

To Irish Turkey and the other 369 , you have to make a stand , you have to get whats fairly due , not only for yourselves and your families but also for the rest of the workers of this country . If E6 get away with this, then a precedent will have been set that will allow other companies to up and leave leaving their workers in a hole.

As you have said E6 is a cash rich company who IMO are using the recession to bale out to a cheaper market probably in Eastern Europe just as Mikey Dell has done.

Run_to_da_hills

Kradock wrote: »

To Irish Turkey and the other 369 , you have to make a stand , you have to get whats fairly due , not only for yourselves and your families but also for the rest of the workers of this country . If E6 get away with this, then a precedent will have been set that will allow other companies to up and leave leaving their workers in a hole.

As you have said E6 is a cash rich company who IMO are using the recession to bale out to a cheaper market probably in Eastern Europe just as Mikey Dell has done.

Lesson learned, long term workers should have taken the lump when offered last year. Some are regretting it big time now.

irishturkey

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Lesson learned, long term workers should have taken the lump when offered last year. Some are regretting it big time now.

Very easy to be wise when you don't know the facts. Truth be told, there was 150 voluntary redundancies from E6 finalised in January with another 60-70 people on a waiting list should another package become available. So people did want to leave but weren't given the opportunity. I wanted to take redundancy when it was offered about 2 years ago but I was refused. I'm not having a go but its a sensitive issue right now and "should have", "could have" and "would have" are all very easy to say now, especially when you haven't a clue whats going on behind the scenes. Literally minutes ago I was talking to someone who is in direct contact with E6 customers and even they cant understand why Shannon is being closed. I'm close to going off on one now so I'll just stop now...the bastards

Kradock

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Lesson learned, long term workers should have taken the lump when offered last year. Some are regretting it big time now.

Its easy to make a have a simplistic view like this but are you aware that the 150 redundancies were to stabilise the company and to secure a future for those who chose to stay and those who were refused the package . From talking to some mates they have been duped by the company so that the bulging order books were filled.

6 weeks a go a mate of mine who was on 50% time was assurred that in the next 6 weeks he would be returning to full time. The workers have been lied to and deceived by the company, a company that is not going to the wall just moving to increase their profit margins.

The Government and unions have failed the employees of E6 the same way they the employees of Dell.

You are correct some are regretting it big time now but some had no choice , what needs to happen is that the employees force the hand of E6 management into giving them what is there fair dues. If it does not happen then I fear for the rest of us.

irishturkey

Kradock wrote: »

Its easy to make a have a simplistic view like this but are you aware that the 150 redundancies were to stabilise the company and to secure a future for those who chose to stay and those who were refused the package . From talking to some mates they have been duped by the company so that the bulging order books were filled.

6 weeks a go a mate of mine who was on 50% time was assurred that in the next 6 weeks he would be returning to full time. The workers have been lied to and deceived by the company, a company that is not going to the wall just moving to increase their profit margins.

The Government and unions have failed the employees of E6 the same way they the employees of Dell.

You are correct some are regretting it big time now but some had no choice , what needs to happen is that the employees force the hand of E6 management into giving them what is there fair dues. If it does not happen then I fear for the rest of us.

It will happen. We have nothing to lose. We're being offered 0.68 of a weeks wage for every years service. Make no mistake about this, not a single machine will leave Shannon before we get a minimum of six weeks wages per year from the company. There isn't a single reason to deny it. They can bull**** us about profits being down, costs going up, but I guarantee that an independent audit of their books would show the ridiculous amount of money they're sitting on and refuse to release. its up to the company now to prove they haven't got it, otherwise they're in for a hell of a fight

No. 11

irishturkey wrote: »

They can bull**** us about profits being down, costs going up, but I guarantee that an independent audit of their books would show the ridiculous amount of money they're sitting on and refuse to release.

Exactly.

The point that should be made is that De Beers and Umicore are both profitable companies. De Beers just announced a couple of days ago, net earnings of $3million for the first half of 2009. Global diamond stocks are at an all-time low and De Beers themselves have said "it is likely that sales will outpace forecast diamond supply for many years to come."

Element Six aren't pulling out because they're making a loss, they're casting their workers out onto the scrapheap so they can increase their profit margins and add a couple more zeros to their shareholders' dividends. E6 have been downsizing their operations in Shannon for a number of years now and this announcement, like Dell's before them, is opportunistic in the extreme and is using the recession as an excuse to cut Shannon loose. After generating millions in profits for De Beers year after year for 40 years workers have been discarded without even a second thought. It's been an obscene exhibition of greed.

As has been said, Element Six are a cash rich company and are literally sitting on a mountain of gold. Not only are they capable of delving into this to pay a decent and humane redundancy, but they have the reserves to reinvest into the company and save all the jobs in Shannon.

Even if workers had been offered the 6 weeks on top of their statutory entitlements, they are still facing a future of long-term and, in the case of some of older workers, permanent unemployment. No matter how generous the redundancy package it will run out eventually.

Nationally, the numbers of unemployed now stands at over 400,000 and it is expected to top 600,000 before the end of the year. This is on a par with the levels of unemployment seen in America during the Great Depression. The prospect that faces laid-off workers today is as clear as it is bleak. Once these jobs are gone they're not coming back.

It's going to take a fight to gain a decent redundancy package, the point is that this will mean only a very temporary respite. Waterford Crystal workers independently raised the question of nationalisation as a means of safeguarding all jobs during their occupation. The order books would suggest that the Shannon factory is viable and I don't think it would be at all outrageous or unreasonable for workers there to raise a similar demand if E6 won't play ball. And judging by most people's reaction to the news of the layoffs, it would receive widespread and enthusiastic public support.

Best of luck all the same.