Price difference

wingknot

Hi all,
maybe someone here can enlighten me,I was looking at a Trek 1.9 pending the sale of a couple of second'hands, I checked 2 LBS and got a price of e1,965.00 so I decided to check some UK shops and came up with £1,149.00, a difference e630.00,but can't buy online because their only available for shop collection, so restricted to buying here,anyone.

Lumen

Don't buy a Trek...if you're looking for VFM.

wingknot

VFM ? just got it

macadam

McComiskeys Dromintee Newry Trek 1.9 €1050.00 is that not VFM

wingknot

Thanks for that info I'll check it out.

Lumen

macadam wrote: »

McComiskeys Dromintee Newry Trek 1.9 €1050.00 is that not VFM

Presumably that's JMC Cycles. Are they actually a Trek dealer? They don't mention it on the website.

mloc123

Lumen wrote: »

Presumably that's JMC Cycles. Are they actually a Trek dealer? They don't mention it on the website.

They are, bought my Trek 100 off them.

Jumpy

macadam wrote: »

McComiskeys Dromintee Newry Trek 1.9 €1050.00 is that not VFM

Damn it. Thats what I paid for my 1.7. Although under the Cycle to Work scheme its cheaper in the long run.

macadam

Ask for james snr at JMC Cycles , he reckons he can do the bike to work scheme, bought my 1.9 earlier in the year and found him a gent , met him in newry a few weeks later and he paid for our breakfast in a cafe, he does a lovely leisurely cycle every sunday morning from forkhill around omeath carlingford and back, some of the nicest scenery about these parts.

kona

Price difference is because your aying 21% more in ireland for a start, Then you have to factor in the fact that not all bike shops pay the same trade price, depending on how much you order and how long your a customer prices can vary.
I know shimano trade prices can vary quite a bit depending on who you are and how much you order in one go.

blorg

kona wrote: »

Price difference is because your aying 21% more in ireland for a start, Then you have to factor in the fact that not all bike shops pay the same trade price, depending on how much you order and how long your a customer prices can vary.
I know shimano trade prices can vary quite a bit depending on who you are and how much you order in one go.

You are not paying "21% more," you are paying 6.5% more (21.5%-15%, used to be less, but there was still a major difference in retail prices.)

Trek are supplied north and south of the border by the same distributor, Centro, in Dublin. You might expect Northern prices to be 6.5% lower, (VAT difference) but they are MUCH lower than this; in this thread we are seeing a price difference of nearly 50%- now that is probably an end of year sale but full RRP is around 30% down on here.

I believe the distributor charges southern bike shops substantially more than the ones in the north. It is a joke TBH and there is no excuse for it, as long as this sort of thing goes on people will just buy from the internet (not Trek, but alternatives.)

kona

blorg wrote: »

You are not paying "21% more," you are paying 6.5% more (21.5%-15%, used to be less, but there was still a major difference in retail prices.)

Trek are supplied north and south of the border by the same distributor, Centro, in Dublin. You might expect Northern prices to be 6.5% lower, (VAT difference) but they are MUCH lower than this; in this thread we are seeing a price difference of nearly 50%- now that is probably an end of year sale but full RRP is around 30% down on here.

I believe the distributor charges southern bike shops substantially more than the ones in the north. It is a joke TBH and there is no excuse for it, as long as this sort of thing goes on people will just buy from the internet (not Trek, but alternatives.)

add in the fact sterling is 15% stronger than the euro.

Ive already mentioned the distributor fact, they are ripping Irish shops off because There isnt a market for high end bikes here as there is in UK, so our quota is waay smaller than the UK, therefore we pay more.

Trek are a rip off anyways, there are better bikes cheaper, if you dont care about brands.

Vélo

Wouldn't mind a Madone 6.9

Vélo

Mmmmm Mmmmmm

blorg

kona wrote: »

add in the fact sterling is 15% stronger than the euro.

Ive already mentioned the distributor fact, they are ripping Irish shops off because There isnt a market for high end bikes here as there is in UK, so our quota is waay smaller than the UK, therefore we pay more.

Treks and indeed all bikes have for as long as I remember been 20-40% cheaper in the UK including NI. The notional value of sterling compared to the Euro is irrelevant. The unit value of a dollar is 30% lower than a Euro, this does not make bikes 30% more expensive there.

These are not bikes made in the UK, if you need to bring currency into it the flucuations of the yen, US and Taiwan dollars would be the relevant ones to look at and would not explain a disparity in price between the UK and Ireland.

In this case it is one distributor, based in Dublin, and the NI prices are lower. If anything they should be higher there as that distributor needs to deal with transport, currency conversions etc. No excuses.

kona

blorg wrote: »

In this case it is one distributor, based in Dublin, and the NI prices are lower. If anything they should be higher there as that distributor needs to deal with transport, currency conversions etc. No excuses.

Thats not how distributors and Trade prices work, how do you know for certain its the distributor?

blorg

kona wrote: »

Thats not how distributors and Trade prices work, how do you know for certain its the distributor?

I know this from my correspondence with Trek over a crash replacement, they confirmed that Centro had the distribution for the whole island of Ireland.

It's not exactly hidden or secret knowledge BTW, it is right there on their website:

http://www.centro.ie/?mode=Dealer

kona

blorg wrote: »

I know this from my correspondence with Trek over a crash replacement, they confirmed that Centro had the distribution for the whole island of Ireland.

It's not exactly hidden or secret knowledge BTW, it is right there on their website:

http://www.centro.ie/?mode=Dealer

Do you not think its just LBS ripping you off?

blorg

kona wrote: »

Do you not think its just LBS ripping you off?

Well it would not just be the one, they tend to stick pretty close to the RRP other than on end of year sales, I think it may be in their dealer agreement... I will accept, I do not know that the distributor charges different prices but I certainly suspect it... Certainly the RRP is set higher in Ireland compared to the UK.

I don't have any inside knowledge as to the actual pricing so this is all speculation on my point. As a consumer I am just looking at the situation where I was quite a Trek fan and considered replacing with a Madone but just couldn't justify the prices being asked (3 times the price of a Focus Cayo with the same groupset, and no, I don't think the frames are equivalent but I was not shelling out three times for it.)

I would like to support local businesses more but it is very difficult when the price differentials are this big... 10% I would have no problem with.

kona

blorg wrote: »

Well it would not just be the one, they tend to stick pretty close to the RRP other than on end of year sales, I think it may be in their dealer agreement... I will accept, I do not know that the distributor charges different prices but I certainly suspect it... Certainly the RRP is set higher in Ireland compared to the UK.

I don't have any inside knowledge as to the actual pricing so this is all speculation on my point. As a consumer I am just looking at the situation where I was quite a Trek fan and considered replacing with a Madone but just couldn't justify the prices being asked (3 times the price of a Focus Cayo with the same groupset, and no, I don't think the frames are equivalent but I was not shelling out three times for it.)

I would like to support local businesses more but it is very difficult when the price differentials are this big... 10% I would have no problem with.

RRP is the price trek reckon they can get for the bikes here, thats why its reccomended. Id have a suspicion that there is some Rip off going on there.
How many bike shops would regularly shift high end treks? not many.

Thats where the issue is, because they dont sell many and they are expensive, you will get a better trade price if you buy 6 as opposed to just ordering one. No LBS is going to have e20k worth of bikes hanging around for months.

connie_c

I work in retail in a comparable industry (musical instruments), similar price ranges, big internet retailers in uk and europe etc. Ive worked in retail in a few other similar places too in america(diving equipment)

From my perspective any small to medium sized shop(one where you are dealing with an owner, manager) will hit internet prices on some of their range and they will be happy to do so.

They may carry some items for prestige and may not be getting trade prices that make it possible for them to compete but you can be sure they will be able to compete on some brands. Especially if its not trek,giant, There will me max competition online for these and the people who distribute probably dont do good deals to irish shops because they know they will sell loads anway.

RRPs are often only there as a place to begin the haggle. if you go in with prices you have seen online the shops will quickly drop their price and also take you seriously.

They will be glad of the business regardless of having their margins tightened.

From my perspective high prices were a celtic tiger thing. You honestly never knew who would walk through the door with 2 grand in their pocket and no idea they could get the same thing online for a good bit less.

I also think during the boom loads of stuff was sold in irish shops at online prices or very close. People who went in and simply told the shops they would go home and order it online or up the north unless they dropped the price got great deals.

The exception is the big shops where usually the staff have instructions to not go below a certain amount.

My advice is don't assume you cant get a better deal at home. Often customers presume this country is a rip off without actually going out and talking to people in shops.

Shops will also give you a warranty that is easy to avail off, set up the bike, and give free services.

boniver

As with all things, it's not quite as simple as it might seem on the surface and while I can understand why people might slag off Centro for 'ripping off' everyone with the Trek pricing, that's actually a bit unfair. I have dealt with the company for over twenty years and they are honourable people caught in a desperate situation: They really have no choice other than to sell the Treks in the north at the same price that Trek UK sell to the mainland dealers at - otherwise the Northern dealers will revolt. Trek UK is a subsidiary of Trek US and a) is most likely on a better purchase price from the parent company than a small Irish distributor and b) operates in a massively bigger market than Centro so same as above is probably benifitting from the economies of scale that would bring about.

As well as these factors they are caught with the devaluation of sterling which suddenly made EVERY bike brand in Ireland look expensive. Why do people think Specialised offered their 'price match' earlier this year? For charity? Ditto Giant who had to lower their prices twice. So Centro is selling Treks into the North at prices that probably don't make economic sense for them to begin with and getting paid in a currency which is worth less than it was when they did their price list.

Now add in the backlash from the Irish dealers who cannot compete with UK/Northern pricing. This led to the removal of ALL discount terms on Trek from ALL dealers, regardless of volume and a reduction in the retail price that had to be funded by a reduction in dealer margin. I could go on because I know the situation quite well but suffice it to say I'm fairly sure there isn't much money being made on Trek by Centro or anyone at the moment. This is something the parent company will have to address if they want the brand to have a future here. And make no mistake, there are price increases on the way from all brands - I've already heard some early pricing on 2010 Giants and they are going up.

Finally, for what it's worth, I genuinely believe Trek to be one of the very best makers of bikes. I've been around the factory in Wisconsin and it's an impressive facility yet still kind of 'personal'. I don't know of any other manufacturer that offers a lifetime warranty on their carbon frames and their back up is fantastic.

That's my little rant over.

neilled

kona wrote: »

Thats not how distributors and Trade prices work, how do you know for certain its the distributor?

Well I know my local shop in NI gets their bikes from Centro. When I asked about the portland being on the UK website, I was told forget about that, its what the lads in Dublin have that counts.

blorg

Thanks for the inside info boniver.

boniver wrote: »

This is something the parent company will have to address if they want the brand to have a future here.

I think this is key, the prices simply have to come down to a level where they bear at least some relation to what is available in NI/rest of the UK and competitve with options from other countries in the Eurozone... I'm sorry but we have been in a single market for some time now and so "bigger market" as an excuse for higher prices doesn't wash, Trek will just have to fix it if they want to continue to sell bikes here.

The issue has been exacerbated by the collapse in sterling I accept. That was a temporary glitch which combined with the Christmas sales saw crazy deals (from an Irish buyer's perspective) but only for a period of a few months- prices in the UK have increased massively this year due to the devaluation of sterling.

I was looking at the Madone some years ago, before sterling collapsed, and it made no more sense then... Bike prices here have been at least 20% above the UK for as long as I can remember, certainly the last decade I have been buying bikes.

Ironically with the collapse in sterling, rise of prices in the UK and subsequent partial recovery of sterling Irish LBSes are becoming more competitive. I generally ask for a quote these days on anything major and go with the LBS if they are in the ballpark.

kona

If my memory is correct, was It Trek that had a production facility here? And they shipped the bikes back to the US, then Back here to sell in the Irish/UK market.

Alot of LBS would be ****ed now if it wasnt for cycle2work. Next year I recon you will see lots of shops closing.

Personally I cant believe Giant are still in business here, I was in duffs the other day, the prices of the bikes for what you get is shocking. They had a bog standard giant, a flat bar racer, generic shimano parts, for almost 1k!!!
Ive seen similar bikes in Halfords for e370.

I cant believe shops like that are still around, they will need to get more compeditive, even dropping Giant if needs be.

Lumen

Boniver,

Ultimately as a consumer you can take one of two views.

The "fairness" view in which you investigate the ins and outs of the supply chain, consider contributions of relative VAT and other costs, take into account the cultural value of the local bike shop, etc etc, and then decide who to give your business to, whilst complaining loudly about fairness or rip-offs when you don't like what you see.

Or you could just buy the best bike for the best price and let the market sort it out.

I'm in the second camp. Though the information you post is interesting, as a consumer I really don't give a ****e about the politics of Trek vs the Distributors vs The Shops, but similarly I feel no antipathy towards any business operating in a competitive environment, since if I don't like a price I can buy elsewhere.

neilled

kona wrote: »

If my memory is correct, was It Trek that had a production facility here? And they shipped the bikes back to the US, then Back here to sell in the Irish/UK market.

Alot of LBS would be ****ed now if it wasnt for cycle2work. Next year I recon you will see lots of shops closing.

Personally I cant believe Giant are still in business here, I was in duffs the other day, the prices of the bikes for what you get is shocking. They had a bog standard giant, a flat bar racer, generic shimano parts, for almost 1k!!!
Ive seen similar bikes in Halfords for e370.

I cant believe shops like that are still around, they will need to get more compeditive, even dropping Giant if needs be.

Regarding the make frames, send to home country and ship back, that enables whatever brand it is to claim that the bike is made in USA or whatever, because most of the "value" eg the frame painting and adding the other components is done in said country, not the place where the frame is built.

It depends really, UK pricing is quite competitive from what i've seen and when I was investigating hybrids the giant dealers were more willing to haggle than the trek ones and I felt the spec on the FCR's was better than the FX series, and would have got one had I not got a deal on a 7.5 on adverts.ie

boniver

kona wrote: »

If my memory is correct, was It Trek that had a production facility here? And they shipped the bikes back to the US, then Back here to sell in the Irish/UK market.

Alot of LBS would be ****ed now if it wasnt for cycle2work. Next year I recon you will see lots of shops closing.

Personally I cant believe Giant are still in business here, I was in duffs the other day, the prices of the bikes for what you get is shocking. They had a bog standard giant, a flat bar racer, generic shimano parts, for almost 1k!!!
Ive seen similar bikes in Halfords for e370.

I cant believe shops like that are still around, they will need to get more compeditive, even dropping Giant if needs be.

Can't agree re Giant and don't know what model you're talking about. A standard FCR with 'generic shimano kit' is E499 at full rrp. If you exclude the VAT difference between the UK and IRL at the moment we can price match any Giant with UK pricing.

boniver

Lumen wrote: »

Boniver,

Ultimately as a consumer you can take one of two views.

The "fairness" view in which you investigate the ins and outs of the supply chain, consider contributions of relative VAT and other costs, take into account the cultural value of the local bike shop, etc etc, and then decide who to give your business to, whilst complaining loudly about fairness or rip-offs when you don't like what you see.

Or you could just buy the best bike for the best price and let the market sort it out.

I'm in the second camp. Though the information you post is interesting, as a consumer I really don't give a ****e about the politics of Trek vs the Distributors vs The Shops, but similarly I feel no antipathy towards any business operating in a competitive environment, since if I don't like a price I can buy elsewhere.

Lumen,

that' a very good point and I agree completely - I am a consumer as well you know. The only reason I contributed to this thread is that - like a lot of Boards posts - it was turning into a ms-informed slagging of a small Irish distributor. You are right, customers will (and are!) buying bikes wherever they can get them cheapest, and who'd blame them. As an Irish shop, we can only offer as good a service that we can, be as competative as we can without cutting out own throats on pricing and try to win as many sales as we can to stay in business. I know from talking to Centro that they are making basically no money on Trek at the moment and the US have not been sympathetic.

alfalad

Boniver you make some good points there and it's good to know a bit more inside info. It seems like a bit of a no win situation at the moment, but as blorg said we are a single market therefore I guess it is up to Centro to try and aline themselves with the wholesalers in Europe so that they get stock at the same price. If the wholesalers in Europe could get together it would result in better prices surely and as we would deal with Europe rather than the UK there would be no currency impact.

boniver

alfalad wrote: »

Boniver you make some good points there and it's good to know a bit more inside info. It seems like a bit of a no win situation at the moment, but as blorg said we are a single market therefore I guess it is up to Centro to try and aline themselves with the wholesalers in Europe so that they get stock at the same price. If the wholesalers in Europe could get together it would result in better prices surely and as we would deal with Europe rather than the UK there would be no currency impact.

I don't think European prices are the problem, I just did a quick scan of Trek prices in Spain and excluding the VAT differential, they are the same. The UK is the anomaly because of their currency and also - and this applies not only to the bike industry but to other sectors as well - a certain amount of 'pricing support' goes on in the UK market because it is so competative and seen by the companies as a 'key' market. So you can end up with certain products being artificially lowered in price ust for that market. Also, because the UK is our nearest neightbour, it's to there we all look for comparison. You never hear anyone complaining about how cheap Germany is compared to us - even though that would be a more valid comparison since they are Euro also.

alfalad

boniver wrote: »

I don't think European prices are the problem, I just did a quick scan of Trek prices in Spain and excluding the VAT differential, they are the same. The UK is the anomaly because of their currency and also - and this applies not only to the bike industry but to other sectors as well - a certain amount of 'pricing support' goes on in the UK market because it is so competative and seen by the companies as a 'key' market. So you can end up with certain products being artificially lowered in price ust for that market. Also, because the UK is our nearest neightbour, it's to there we all look for comparison. You never hear anyone complaining about how cheap Germany is compared to us - even though that would be a more valid comparison since they are Euro also.

Funny you mention Spain as I was actually in Madrid last month and much to the annoyance of the better half when we walked by a nice bike shop i had to stick my nose in for a quick look. Can't remember which bikes in particular i was look at but do remember thinking if i was spending €1,500 up it would be worth while going to Madrid for the weekend and buying it there the amount i would save would pay for the flights and hotel accom etc. But I do know it wasn't Trek i was looking at so your above point i'm sure is true.
I was in Germany about two months ago and was looking at Cube mountain bikes in a shop there and they did also seem cheaper, not half price or anything but certainly 10%.

Now maybe these are not the normal price or they were on sale etc and in fairness I remeber looking at jerseys and shorts and thinking they weren't any cheaper there.

neilled

alfalad wrote: »

Funny you mention Spain as I was actually in Madrid last month and much to the annoyance of the better half when we walked by a nice bike shop i had to stick my nose in for a quick look. Can't remember which bikes in particular i was look at but do remember thinking if i was spending €1,500 up it would be worth while going to Madrid for the weekend and buying it there the amount i would save would pay for the flights and hotel accom etc. But I do know it wasn't Trek i was looking at so your above point i'm sure is true.
I was in Germany about two months ago and was looking at Cube mountain bikes in a shop there and they did also seem cheaper, not half price or anything but certainly 10%.

Now maybe these are not the normal price or they were on sale etc and in fairness I remeber looking at jerseys and shorts and thinking they weren't any cheaper there.

Orbea or BH perhaps? Both are spanish afaik

alfalad

neilled wrote: »

Orbea or BH perhaps? Both are spanish afaik

I remember looking at on tasty Orbea alright, can't remember specifics though!

mloc123

I think everybodies favourite shop on the quays have/had Trek 2.3s for €1300... seems like okay value.

blorg

boniver wrote: »

I don't think European prices are the problem, I just did a quick scan of Trek prices in Spain and excluding the VAT differential, they are the same.

That might explain why Treks are pretty uncommon in Europe then, seriously though, they are very rare there. I know a fair few guys who bought Treks in the US and the prices they paid were shockingly low. Well under half the price here. Tax differentials and duties don't even go near explaining the difference.

To be honest if Trek don't want to make their product competitive in the Irish market the best bet for local bike shops, and indeed the distributor, might be to look for other brands from a manufacturer that might want to make the effort there... There are several European brands that might fit into this niche.

Trek are more competitive on the hybrid end of stuff which I imagine is their bread and butter in this country- might be worthwhile to look for something else for the mid-level to high-end racer people.

neilled

mloc123 wrote: »

I think everybodies favourite shop on the quays have/had Trek 2.3s for €1300... seems like okay value.

Those are old stock........... from 2008

neilled

blorg wrote: »

That might explain why Treks are pretty uncommon in Europe then, seriously though, they are very rare there. I know a fair few guys who bought Treks in the US and the prices they paid were shockingly low. Well under half the price here. Tax differentials and duties don't even go near explaining the difference.

To be honest if Trek don't want to make their product competitive in the Irish market the best bet for local bike shops, and indeed the distributor, might be to look for other brands from a manufacturer that might want to make the effort there... There are several European brands that might fit into this niche.

Trek are more competitive on the hybrid end of stuff which I imagine is their bread and butter in this country- might be worthwhile to look for something else for the mid-level to high-end racer people.

Its quite simple if you ask me - Trek are/havebeen positioning themselves as a "Premium" brand riding on the back of their success at professional level. Part of this involves not making your product available through mail order/website and in bricks and mortar only. Bricks and Mortar shops have greater overheads and generally speaking will sell at the suggested retail price, whilst an online dealer will be able to sell for less not having the same overheads. If a brand is that bit more expensive than its competitors with everyone charging the same amount for it joe public will perceive it as being worth that bit extra.