Start up costs for shop

Cushtie

I'm wondering if anyone can give me a small bit of help with something.

I have seen an opportunity to purchase a small village grocery shop with petrol pumps etc.

I have no business experience as have always been employed but have been looking for a while for the right opportunity. I think this might it.

I am trying to put together rough costings to give myself a ballpark figure to work off. it it looks viable I will then look at doing a much more indepth analysis.

so far here are the things I have identified that I need to cost. I'm sure I have left stuff out.

Purchase Price of Business
Stamp Duty
Professional Fees (Legal, Accountancy, Engineers report etc)
Stock
Insurance
Renovations / Fit Out
Working Capital

So what have I left out?

I'm not looking for actual costings on any of the above but anyone that has experience please feel free to post any ballpark figures.

Thanks

Bandara

Cushtie wrote: »

I'm wondering if anyone can give me a small bit of help with something.

I have seen an opportunity to purchase a small village grocery shop with petrol pumps etc.

I have no business experience as have always been employed but have been looking for a while for the right opportunity. I think this might it.

I am trying to put together rough costings to give myself a ballpark figure to work off. it it looks viable I will then look at doing a much more indepth analysis.

so far here are the things I have identified that I need to cost. I'm sure I have left stuff out.

Purchase Price of Business
Stamp Duty
Professional Fees (Legal, Accountancy, Engineers report etc)
Stock
Insurance
Renovations / Fit Out
Working Capital

So what have I left out?

I'm not looking for actual costings on any of the above but anyone that has experience please feel free to post any ballpark figures.

Thanks

Hi

I've a fair bit of experience in this area (retail & fuel)

To cut through all the bull**** etc can you tell me how much is the shop doing a week, how much fuel a week and what is the cigerettes as percentage of shop sales.

Assuming normnal costs etc I can tell you pretty much what you will be making/losing a year based on this.

HT.
edit - to be honest your best bet is just to tell me where the shop is ad I can makes a phone cal for you and find out exactly what its doing at the minute. I realise that seems like your giving away the opportunity to be stolen from you, I can absolutely assure you I have no interest whatsoever in the site, I've helped several others here completely confidentially on similar opportunities

Cushtie

Hi Hammertime,

thanks for replying.

the shop has been closed for about two years and before that it wasn't run very well. guy that owned it, bought it, fitted it out, put alot of money in and kinda lost interest.

It has been for sale for about 18 months but only lately has it been priced realistically. crazy money being sought up to now.

so I don't have any figures to hand. I'm trying to get what figures there is available.

It is in quiet a good location and there is no immediate competition (when I say this I mean nearest shop is in next village which is about 5 miles away)

PM hammertime and tell him exactly. Don't be giving away info in the public domain.

Cushtie

Deleted User wrote: »

PM hammertime and tell him exactly. Don't be giving away info in the public domain.

PM sent, thanks TheEntrepreneur.

Had initial chat with Accountant today also. A picture is beginning to come together

BnA

OP / Hammertime.

I have a similar question that one of you might be able to answer.

Would you be able to give me a rough estimate on the cost of developing a mid-sized petrol/station shop on a green-field site. No need to include the cost of purchasing the site

Not looking for anything too exact. Just a very rough estimate. Also, would the company that you go with (Statoil, Texaco etc.) provide any assistance towards this.

Bandara

BnA wrote: »

OP / Hammertime.

I have a similar question that one of you might be able to answer.

Would you be able to give me a rough estimate on the cost of developing a mid-sized petrol/station shop on a green-field site. No need to include the cost of purchasing the site

Not looking for anything too exact. Just a very rough estimate. Also, would the company that you go with (Statoil, Texaco etc.) provide any assistance towards this.

€1.5m will build you forecourt with a 1000sq ft shop, with suitable back stores & office etc in a two story building with offices overhead that you can let out, this price includes the undergrounds for 6 pumps, large storage tanks and both a brush and jet car wash with all the required sumps etc etc. Also included is a full symbol group fitout with deli, coffee tills, pump controllers etc etc

Basically a finished article.

Once you start doing 40k in the shop and 60k litres a week your site becomes worth 2.5m+

imo Mace Maxol is by far the best company to go with (I'm not with them, but in the industry they are known as being the best by far)

BnA

Hammertime wrote: »

€1.5m will build you forecourt with a 1000sq ft shop, with suitable back stores & office etc in a two story building with offices overhead that you can let out, this price includes the undergrounds for 6 pumps, large storage tanks and both a brush and jet car wash with all the required sumps etc etc. Also included is a full symbol group fitout with deli, coffee tills, pump controllers etc etc

Basically a finished article.

Once you start doing 40k in the shop and 60k litres a week your site becomes worth 2.5m+

imo Mace Maxol is by far the best company to go with (I'm not with them, but in the industry they are known as being the best by far)

Thanks very much Hammertime.

That's a lot of money. Although, you are describing a much bigger building than I would be considering as it is a rural area with little enough chance of renting extra units out.

I wouldn't be looking at doing anything like the volume you mentioned.

I know that a petrol station about 5 miles away that is doing 20k Litres per week. He makes a profit of €0.06 a litre with gives him about €1.2k a week. That's not bad for him as he has very few expenses (no rent, no loan, casual staff) However they are just a pure petrol station. i.e. Very very sparse shop (No papers, no tea, no deli) Basically just Ciggies, drinks and sweets

Based (very very loosely) on that I think I would have the possibility of doing circa 30k.

I don't have a remote clue what the potential for Turn-over in the grocery / deli section would be. I know the area needs a shop, but as to what that would equate to in money terms, I haven't a clue.

Bandara

BnA wrote: »

Thanks very much Hammertime.

That's a lot of money. Although, you are describing a much bigger building than I would be considering as it is a rural area with little enough chance of renting extra units out.

I wouldn't be looking at doing anything like the volume you mentioned.

I know that a petrol station about 5 miles away that is doing 20k Litres per week. He makes a profit of €0.06 a litre with gives him about €1.2k a week. That's not bad for him as he has very few expenses (no rent, no loan, casual staff) However they are just a pure petrol station. i.e. Very very sparse shop (No papers, no tea, no deli) Basically just Ciggies, drinks and sweets

Based (very very loosely) on that I think I would have the possibility of doing circa 30k.

I don't have a remote clue what the potential for Turn-over in the grocery / deli section would be. I know the area needs a shop, but as to what that would equate to in money terms, I haven't a clue.

I may be wrong here but them figures are very misleading ones to go on, the guy might be getting a rebate of 6c a litre but he is no way making a profit of 6c a litre. Credit card charges alone would costs about 1.5% and laser transactions 19c approx.

So your man sells 10 litres of fuel, he thinks he's makeing 60c profit, customer hands him a laser card and his 'profit' is now down to 41c, then you have to annual manitenance contracts on the pumps, the forecourt costs, gloves, bins and bin bags, blue paper, keeping airline and water services working etc etc etc

I'd say his profit is closer to 3c a litre.

(and as an aside not having tea/coffee facilities is nuts, its 85%+ profit and is the natural thing to go in petrol stations, long journey - people stop for a break and buy a coffee and a bar. Coffe & bar = €3, this costs you about 90c so your making €2.10, to make this you need to sell 70 litres) But thats another issue

BnA

Hammertime wrote: »

I may be wrong here but them figures are very misleading ones to go on, the guy might be getting a rebate of 6c a litre but he is no way making a profit of 6c a litre. Credit card charges alone would costs about 1.5% and laser transactions 19c approx.

So your man sells 10 litres of fuel, he thinks he's makeing 60c profit, customer hands him a laser card and his 'profit' is now down to 41c, then you have to annual manitenance contracts on the pumps, the forecourt costs, gloves, bins and bin bags, blue paper, keeping airline and water services working etc etc etc

I'd say his profit is closer to 3c a litre.

(and as an aside not having tea/coffee facilities is nuts, its 85%+ profit and is the natural thing to go in petrol stations, long journey - people stop for a break and buy a coffee and a bar. Coffe & bar = €3, this costs you about 90c so your making €2.10, to make this you need to sell 70 litres) But thats another issue

Well, to be fair to him, I mis-quoted him. He told me his Mark up was 6 cents, not his profit.

I never realised that Credit Cards cost as much for the retailer. That is a shocking charge.

RE, him not having Tea/Coffee..... sure, of course he's freggin' nuts. But he inheritted the business. He's not lazy, in that he opens early, will always be outside to fill petrol etc, be he's not remotely ambitous either. He has a good number of regular customers who keep him ticking over and he's happy with that.

Sorry, for bugging your brain, Hammertime, but this is something I have often thought about as I really think there is an opening for one in my local area and you seem to know the answer to a lot of questions I have in my head.

Last question I promise...

What kind of a turnover (petrol / groceries), and I appreciate this is just an estimate, do you think I would need on a petrol station / shop to pay a salary of say... €60 p/a.

frogster

hi,

i am looking to i invest approx 200k in any retail business thats worth the risk.anybody got any good ideas.

best regards

helenar

hi,
considering the amount of very over weight people, including childern, there are very few clothing outlets for these people espically childern. i know this to be the case in limerick. this was something i thought to do my self but decided not to stay in the country permantly.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

BnA wrote: »

Well, to be fair to him, I mis-quoted him. He told me his Mark up was 6 cents, not his profit.

I never realised that Credit Cards cost as much for the retailer. That is a shocking charge.

As high as 4% when you are online. :eek:

helenar

helenar wrote: »

hi,
considering the amount of very over weight people, including childern, there are very few clothing outlets for these people espically childern. i know this to be the case in limerick. this was something i thought to do my self but decided not to stay in the country permantly.

While I think you make a valid point (obese children), I don't think making such businesses which encourage this way of life is beneficial to the economy in the long run (health issues) n'or to the individuals in question. Any individual can lose weight if they want to.

I think a kids gym/activity centre would be far better overall.

DubTony

frogster wrote: »

hi,

i am looking to i invest approx 200k in any retail business thats worth the risk.anybody got any good ideas.

best regards

I have one. DON'T !!!!

Retail is on its knees. You just need to see the deals that are being offered to customers at the moment. Nobody's expanding. Nobody's investing. And the price of rent in a decent location does not reflect the current market conditions in any way shape or form.

Nice first post btw.


@ the OP.

If you don't know that business like the back of your hand (better even) then leave it alone. You need huge passing trade in a good location and you need to be on the upper end of the price scale in the shop for it to be profitable. (Or doing great deals with suppliers to get the margin on that end) Unless you're the only show in town, (and that can change) I'm inclined to suggest you leave it alone.

PM me whatever figures you've got, the dempographic of the area and even the area details and I'll send you back another 2c worth. And in case you're worried, trust me, I won't be going after your targeted business. I simply hate to see guys going into something they have no clue about.

DubTony

Hammertime wrote: »

I may be wrong here but them figures are very misleading ones to go on, the guy might be getting a rebate of 6c a litre but he is no way making a profit of 6c a litre. Credit card charges alone would costs about 1.5% and laser transactions 19c approx.

fyi guys, I've seen a new Mace/Maxol contract with card charges that are way lower than those quoted here. I was shocked when I saw the rates they are so low.

Bandara

DubTony wrote: »

fyi guys, I've seen a new Mace/Maxol contract with card charges that are way lower than those quoted here. I was shocked when I saw the rates they are so low.

hey Tony

how low?

I have 1.2% on CCs and 14c on laser.

frogster

Great advice tony.,/

Yeah, i guess this country is going backwards,its even worse than the far east.hmm,.i just got back from asia 5 months now.have been living there for 3 years,guess i mite consider going back as i can see theres no way of making decent bucks here.I guess il sit on my ass till next year n see if any miracles happen,.
I was considering going into high street retail,something like city centre but what the hell its too much of a risk,i love taking risks but not this time.To tell you the truth,im just bored man,im full of energy n need to do things,new things.A way of making money and exerting energy.Ive done the property thing,not here,in the rich resorts of vietnam.Its great making the easy money but you need a daily routine

I was the the restaurant and takeout business for 10 years.had enough of that and wow lucky me,i sold up in 2006.packed my bags and headed to where the sun rises.

So tony,i reckon there must be something out there to invest?/any ideas?

best regards

DubTony

Hammertime wrote: »

hey Tony

how low?

I have 1.2% on CCs and 14c on laser.

I'm going to have to check this, but IIRC it was 8c Laser and ..... wait for it ..... .75% CC. I'm having my doubts now though, that seems ridiculously low. I'll check it out and get back during the week.

DubTony

frogster wrote: »

Great advice tony.,/

Yeah, i guess this country is going backwards,its even worse than the far east.hmm,.i just got back from asia 5 months now.have been living there for 3 years,guess i mite consider going back as i can see theres no way of making decent bucks here.I guess il sit on my ass till next year n see if any miracles happen,.
I was considering going into high street retail,something like city centre but what the hell its too much of a risk,i love taking risks but not this time.To tell you the truth,im just bored man,im full of energy n need to do things,new things.A way of making money and exerting energy.Ive done the property thing,not here,in the rich resorts of vietnam.Its great making the easy money but you need a daily routine

I was the the restaurant and takeout business for 10 years.had enough of that and wow lucky me,i sold up in 2006.packed my bags and headed to where the sun rises.

So tony,i reckon there must be something out there to invest?/any ideas?

best regards

Strangely enough, I have an idea I'm thrashing around in my head at the moment.
Let me work on the feasibility a bit more and if there's anything in it I might just let you give me some of that money.

newman10

DubTony wrote: »

I have one. DON'T !!!!

Retail is on its knees. You just need to see the deals that are being offered to customers at the moment. Nobody's expanding. Nobody's investing. And the price of rent in a decent location does not reflect the current market conditions in any way shape or form.

Agreed Retail is shot not just on its knees but it has become about driving down costs and location.

New Leases have a big advantage on established in that the business next door can be paying 50% less rent and have staff who are also working for less.

newman10

frogster wrote: »

So tony,i reckon there must be something out there to invest?/any ideas?

You must have some opinion yourself

JohnThomas09

Hammertime wrote: »

imo Mace Maxol is by far the best company to go with (I'm not with them, but in the industry they are known as being the best by far)

just after finding this thread.just wondering if you could answer a quick question.Does Mace sell a franchise or do they simple supply their branded stores???

DubTony

JohnThomas09 wrote: »

just after finding this thread.just wondering if you could answer a quick question.Does Mace sell a franchise or do they simple supply their branded stores???

If you're a well established retailer, and you're "in the know" they might give you the license on a Mace/Maxol. They'll fit it out and you'll simply pay "rent" and expenses incurred in running your business. If you're not that well established, they'll franchise to you. They don't sell the franchise as such, but the fit out cost will come out of your pocket. It's not cheap.