Army Equitation School to be 'snipped'

convert

So An Board Snip Nua wants the Army Equitation School to be closed with a saving of 1m!

Do you think it's one of the cuts that will go ahead? What do you think of the recommendation? What impact do you think it will have?

Ave Sodalis

GASP.!!! Stupid, stupid, stupid.!!:mad:

Our Government's away ta ****

And what do they plan ta do with those perfectly good, bombproof (no pun intended), well behaved, highly trained horses.??

weatherford

Ach, they'll sell them to the Americans...

(For the Amateur divisions - which is where all the fabulous Grand Prix horses wind up... )

convert

weatherford wrote: »

Ach, they'll sell them to the Americans...

(For the Amateur divisions - which is where all the fabulous Grand Prix horses wind up... )

A number of the horses in the Equitation School are on lease to the Minister of Defence, and will probably go back to the owners.

On a slightly related topic: do there tend to be penalties for parties who don't fulfill the terms of the contract for leasing a horse?

fits

Will there be anyone left competing (in showjumping certainly) on Irish Sport Horses? I feel like we're in danger of losing our horse. I think there is as much a justification now for the school as ever tbh.

togster

I think it would be detrimental to the sport in general. Horse like "Mo Chroi" will end up under some american rider and we will loose our horses.

One of our greatest assets is our horse. We should do everything to preserve and encourage it.

Rowley Birkin QC

As a person who knows nothing about equestrian stuff I'm wondering what useful purpose the school serves towards the road to recovery?

This is not an inflammatory post, I'm genuinely curious.

Hagar

The Horse Show is a great tourist event, this can not be good for the show. This country needs badly tourist spending to help the economy.

workaholic2

totally agree, would be detrimental to the Irish economy, not to mention heartbreaking, I can honestly say after spending two weeks work experience with them, I would be very sad to see all of their hard work and dedication go to waste. Those horses are all one in a million, and I love watching them compete. Such harmony between horse and rider, makes me very proud to be Irish

OK, I'll play devil's advocate here,

How does the continued funding of the Equitation School service our national debt? That, I'd say, was pretty much the only question in contention.

Also, how much did Equestrian sports loose (I'm excluding horse racing) from the Dept. of Sport?

eddie12

bigkev49 wrote: »

As a person who knows nothing about equestrian stuff I'm wondering what useful purpose the school serves towards the road to recovery?

This is not an inflammatory post, I'm genuinely curious.

To be honest Bigkev, keeping the school open won’t help very much with our economic recovery in general.
It’s more to do with national pride and promoting Irish bred horses worldwide. It equates to a shop window for Irish sporthorses in the same way that the Irish racehorse trainers winning the derby and gold cup promotes Irish thoroughbreds.
Sporthorses are generally bred and produced by small operations (i.e. farmers keeping a few broodmares) who don’t have the same promotional ability and financial clout that the big stud farms do.
The army only use irishbred horses. They have great riders, schooling facilities and experience that brings the best out in horses and has them competing at the highest possible level. In the dark 80's(looks like we going that way again) when we Irish didn’t have money to throw around, our best young horses were being bought up by American amateurs who had the money but generally lacked the ability to compete at the highest level. So the horses were competing at a level below what they were capable of(a horse can only jump what’s put in front of him). The other option breeders had was to lease talented horses to the army who would get the best out of them and show them off on the world stage competing at the highest level. A worldclass horse comes along very rarely so you want it to get the best chance to live up to its promise.

convert

The Army Equitation School are only permitted to have and compete Irish bred horses. As a result, they are a showcase for the Irish horse and the fact they compete so successfully on the international circuit highlights the athleticism, potential and talent of the Irish horse to prospective foreign buyers.

These potential buyers often make several trips to Ireland in order to purchase Irish bred horses. They attend many of the big shows across the country, including, obviously, the Dublin horse show, as well as some of the smaller shows.

The sport horse industry in Ireland is worth well in excess of the 1m (I don't have the exact figures to hand) which it costs to run the Equitation School. Without riders who exclusively compete Irish bred horses on the international scene, the publicity of the Irish bred horse will consequently diminish, thus having a potentially huge adverse impact on the sport horse industry in Ireland.

However, it's also important to bear in mind that the Army Equitation school isn't just there to promote the Irish horse. It also helps to ensure the survival of the Irish bred horse at a time when so many of our top and international riders are turning to 'foreign' horses, such as warmbloods (there are a few threads in the forum asking about warmbloods, Spanish horses, etc. which demonstrate the interest which there is in these breeds) at the expense of the Irish horse.

The maintainance of the true Irish horse is vital to the country and, as such, cannot have a value placed on it (although I'm sure there are some economists out there who will tell me they've just drawn up a model to calculate it! :P). If the Army Equitation School is closed then we'll lose an important part of the sport horse industry in Ireland, not to mention many talented riders and horses who have successfully represented Ireland internationally, including the Olympics! We'll also lose an extremely effective and successful means of promoting our horses, which could have a potentially serious adverse impact on our sport horse industry, and ultimately a section of the economy.

Socos

I'm all for keeping the school however I do feel they could give more value for money.For instance when Capt. David O’Brien was called up to replace Cameron Hanley in Aachen a driver and a groom had to travel with him. Surely he or the groom could drive the truck.
I was also at a show one day when the army arrived at the entries tent they had forgotton there entry books. Shortly afterwards an army helicopter landed at the show with thier entry books.
These are just small examples, I think the school should be held on to but not with an open cheque book like they've had.

Esroh

The important thing in this is that the amount of money to be saved by getting rid if the AES is quoted as 1million euro. Now please tell me that this is a cut worth making when millions are wasted everyday because of red tape in every Gov.dept. Also when the Lotto was set up it was to support Arts, Sports etc not as a stealth tax.

In times of economic recession sport has always produced its stars and now is not a time make rash decisions. Remember 77, 78 , 79 , that the AK Cup Team would have been lost without it Army rider. Also go thru our nation cup results over the years it was always handy to have the Army riders available to keep us going when we need it.
The sports horse industry is a substantial contributer to the economy and the AES is its Flagship

needadvice

The general public are fully in favour so it may happen the saving is minute and I would think it a huge loss.:(

convert

It's also worth remembering in years gone by that only army riders were eligible to represent their country on Nations Cup teams!

If it is done away with, it really would be a loss, not to mention the end of an era. It's been in existence since 1926.

Esroh

If this was to come to pass it will be looked back on with regret in years to come.A kneejerk reaction.Just as we had to reintroduce the Mounted Police years after the Blue Dragoons were disbanded or we now are looking at reopening as walk/cycle ways the railway lines that were abandoned over the years as they were regarded as ways to 'SAVE' money.

togster

A country of kneejerk reactions.

The school is a showcase for Irish Horses and Irish riders.

Many of our international riders are now based on the continent riding foreign bred horses.

I was at an international show in Sweden last weekend to see Ireland win the nations cup team. It was great to see an Irish horse (Mo Chroi) a beautiful cruising mare representing the equitation school. There was something very special about it tbh. A true irish partnership representing it's country.

Ireland needs the school as does the Irish horse as does the Irish economy.

Ave Sodalis

And we are doing GOOD at our showjumping.! Why not take away soccer or something instead... our country is crap at it and our team never really made it far enough to be missed.

Ugh ya know what, we should start an awareness campaign for the public to show how much we need the school and we cant get that good of horses trained in time for when the economy picks up.

For example, we could come, say, second in some major competition. Tourist come to see our horses, buyer come to spend big money for our horses and it promotes Irish sports! One sport we don't suck at and they are taking it away!

MDFM

I'd hate to see the army equitation school going, but, while they may be a showcase for Irish horses/riders - thats all they are i think. I don't think though they have a major influence on the rest of the world though when it comes to the marketing of the Irish horse. As someone already mentioned, the vast majority of our top Irish international riders, either based here or abroad, well their top horses are predominately foreign bred.

I do believe the Irish horse can equal any foreign horse out there - but, breeding and finding this type of horse seems very difficult to achieve unfortunately. As a profit/business centre - the army equitation school is neither. Horses are not passed through it with the intent of bringing them on and making are profit out of them, they come in, are brought up through the grades and if they don't make the cut, the vast majority of times they go back to the owner that they were originally leased from and only remain remembered as those that werent good enough for the army.

I remember as a child always being in awe of the army horses - back in the day when we'd easily have 2 members of the army on the Aga khan team or any nations cup team - back in the days when we'd irish horses like Kilcoltrim, Glendalough, Mostrim, Rockbarton, Kilbaha etc..all at the top of their game - wining Hickstead Derby's, representing us the Olympics and World Games etc to name but a few. These were outstanding showcase horses and riders and always drew a crowd on fridays to the aga khan. And of course in recent years, the success of Mo Chroi and former rider Gerry Flynn..I may be mistaken, and apart from the recent Olympics where we were represented by the army, no major army achievement comes to mind, well none that any recognition was given to.
I don't know is keeping the school open is a viable open, sadly in economic terms anyway. Financially their contribution to the Irish economy is non existant, but if way forward was to develop a strategy around breeding, training, marketing Irish horses, i dunno, then maybe its one sector that could be held onto. Personally, i hope it stays open, its a tradition i would hate to see go, but, I think its going to be hard to justify their existance once the government takes a closer look at it and its finances.

Theponylady

MDFM wrote: »

I'd hate to see the army equitation school going, but, while they may be a showcase for Irish horses/riders - thats all they are i think. I don't think though they have a major influence on the rest of the world though when it comes to the marketing of the Irish horse. As someone already mentioned, the vast majority of our top Irish international riders, either based here or abroad, well their top horses are predominately foreign bred.

I do believe the Irish horse can equal any foreign horse out there - but, breeding and finding this type of horse seems very difficult to achieve unfortunately. As a profit/business centre - the army equitation school is neither. Horses are not passed through it with the intent of bringing them on and making are profit out of them, they come in, are brought up through the grades and if they don't make the cut, the vast majority of times they go back to the owner that they were originally leased from and only remain remembered as those that werent good enough for the army.

I remember as a child always being in awe of the army horses - back in the day when we'd easily have 2 members of the army on the Aga khan team or any nations cup team - back in the days when we'd irish horses like Kilcoltrim, Glendalough, Mostrim, Rockbarton, Kilbaha etc..all at the top of their game - wining Hickstead Derby's, representing us the Olympics and World Games etc to name but a few. These were outstanding showcase horses and riders and always drew a crowd on fridays to the aga khan. And of course in recent years, the success of Mo Chroi and former rider Gerry Flynn..I may be mistaken, and apart from the recent Olympics where we were represented by the army, no major army achievement comes to mind, well none that any recognition was given to.
I don't know is keeping the school open is a viable open, sadly in economic terms anyway. Financially their contribution to the Irish economy is non existant, but if way forward was to develop a strategy around breeding, training, marketing Irish horses, i dunno, then maybe its one sector that could be held onto. Personally, i hope it stays open, its a tradition i would hate to see go, but, I think its going to be hard to justify their existance once the government takes a closer look at it and its finances.

I don't quite agree with this. I think the school, by consistently churning out top international riders, who win on IRISH bred horses(rather than the foriegn bred horses most of the other top Irish riders are on), bring a HUGE amount of attention to Irish horses. It's excellent advertising and promotion for Irish horses, which in turn brings over a huge number of tourists and their money to the country. Those tourists come over to look at, ride, and often buy Irish horses. They spend many millions in Ireland every year, a huge boost to our economy. Without the school, we would have very little advertising for our horses around the world, and many many fewer tourists and horse buyers coming to the country.

Borderfox

I think that is doing more than a slight disservice to a lot of bodies who promote Horses in Ireland.

Ave Sodalis

And it's not like it's only a job, or only a hobby, but it's a way of life. Riders who dedicate hours of practice, trainers who spend months training, grooms who spend hours brushing and washing. They don't do it because they HAVE to like a job,and they don't do it when they're free like a hobby, but EVERY day because it's their life. At least thats what it would be like for me if I was able to join that school.