The Irish Film Board

MovieExtras.ie: Derek

According to IFTN:

An Bord Snip has recommended:

“The Group considers that continued funding of the Irish Film Board is not affordable at this time in the context of other more pressing spending priorities. Given the scale of tax expenditure (€418m since 1993 and €33m in 2008) via the tax incentive scheme for this sector, and given the level of international competition in this market space, there is no objective economic case for subventing the Irish Film Industry. The Group considers that film development is similar to enterprise development activities in other sectors (e.g. manufacturing, services, tourism etc). It concludes that the enterprise promotion and development activities of the Irish Film Board should be transferred to the new enterprise agency (see Detailed Paper No. 5) which incorporates a restructured Enterprise Ireland and the enterprise development functions of a range of other existing agencies. The Group also recommends discontinuation of the dedicated investment fund. Overall, these proposals should lead to a staff reduction of about 17 positions."

Galvasean

Bummer

Ajos

I'm completely torn over this. I feel that the Film Board has been a bad influence on the Irish Film Industry by putting amorphous "cultural" concerns over commercial ones and training an entire generation of filmmakers not to care about the financial realities of their projects, to the point where if the Board's false economy does go away the indigenous industry will probably completely collapse in the harsh light of economic reality.

But I have to acknowledge that I owe my entire career to the Film Board. A few years ago I "escaped" and I now work on economically self sustaining projects, but it was the experience I got working on Board funded projects that allowed me to do that. And I could just as easily still be dependent on them for my living if things had worked out differently.

So, I'm torn. Part of me would be glad to see the Board go away and the industry be forced to make films that people will actually pay to see, and another part is aware that this is intensely hypocritical of me!

MikeC101

Ajos, I don't think you should feel at all hypocritical about what you did.

I agree with you on a lot of points about the Film Board, especially the "cultural" aspect.

In fairness if they hadn't bred a culture like they did, then maybe the opportunity for a more commercially oriented film culture would have been here far earlier, and you could have started off working in the field you wanted, without the need to rely on film board funded stuff.

As it was you used the options available to you and got into the area you wanted - I say fair play to you.

Ajos

MikeC101 wrote: »

Ajos, I don't think you should feel at all hypocritical about what you did.

I agree with you on a lot of points about the Film Board, especially the "cultural" aspect.

In fairness if they hadn't bred a culture like they did, then maybe the opportunity for a more commercially oriented film culture would have been here far earlier, and you could have started off working in the field you wanted, without the need to rely on film board funded stuff.

As it was you used the options available to you and got into the area you wanted - I say fair play to you.

Good point! I feel better now. Thanks! I'm still sympathetic for my former colleagues, obviously. Hopefully (if this happens) the industry will rebound somehow. Leaner, meaner and stronger than ever!

Nolanger

They were a disaster - €418 million spent by the board since 1993 and for what? Lots of crap shorts that no-one sees after a few festival screenings, lots of features from the '90s that were so bad they didn't even get a DVD release, loads of pale imitation movies of successful British movies, and a few 'accidental' successes such as Once.
Out of almost 160 feature films funded by the board how many do you own on DVD?

DWCommuter

Nolanger wrote: »

They were a disaster - €418 million spent by the board since 1993 and for what? Lots of crap shorts that no-one sees after a few festival screenings, lots of features from the '90s that were so bad they didn't even get a DVD release, loads of pale imitation movies of successful British movies, and a few 'accidental' successes such as Once.
Out of almost 160 feature films funded by the board how many do you own on DVD?

Spot on!

There is a completely new breed of Irish Filmmaker out there now and the IFB have refused point blank to offer any outlet to Irish shorts/features that they or their cohorts had no hand in. They have failed miserably to foster a meaningful and commercial film culture.

And Im not a victim of several **** off letters from them either. I just get out there and do it regardless of their incessant obsession with nepotism and Hollywood style production values deviod of story.

BlitzKrieg

Out of almost 160 feature films funded by the board how many do you own on DVD?

do you have a list I can check? never know I might have one or two...

MikeC101

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

do you have a list I can check? never know I might have one or two...

I tried looking on their site but could only find a list of newer movies.

I'd be interested to know how many I've *seen*, let alone bought!

(though it's possible there was some funding from them in a lot of Irish movies I suppose)

Nolanger

Ailsa
A Man of No Importance
The Disappearance of Finbar
Snakes and Ladders
Nothing Personal
My Friend Joe
Last Of the High Kings
Guiltrip
Frankie Starlight
Trojan Eddie
This is the Sea
The sun, the moon, and the stars
The Boy from Mercury
Spaghetti Slow
Some Mother’s Son
Separation Anxiety
November Afternoon
I Went Down
Gold In The Streets
A Further Gesture
The Last Bus Home
The Fifth Provence
How To Cheat in the Leaving Cert
Drinking Crude
Crushproof
Bogwoman
All Souls Day
The General
The Boxer
Sweety Barrett
Sunset Heights
Pete’s Meteor
Night Train
Love and Rage
Dancing at Lughnasa
A Love Divided
The Last September
Saltwater
Park
Ordinary Decent Criminal
Nora
Le Dernier Mot
I Could Read The Sky
Flick
Agnes Browne
Accelerator
About Adam
When Brendan Met Trudy
The Most Fertile Man in Ireland
Peaches
On the Nose
Disco Pigs
Country
Conamara
Borstal Boy
The Crooked Mile
Silent Grace
Puckoon
Mapmaker
How Harry Became a Tree
H3
Chaos
Bloody Sunday
The Magdalene Sisters
The Halo Effect
The Mystics
The Actors
Spin the Bottle
Song For a Raggy Boy
Intermission
Headrush
Goldfish Memory
Dead Bodies
Cowboys and Angels
Bloom
Timbuktu
The Honeymooners
Starfish
Omagh
Man About Dog
Inside I’m Dancing
Freeze Frame
Dead Meat
Boxed
Blind Flight
Adam and Paul
Winter’s End
The Trouble With Sex
Tara Road
Sugar
Short Order
Pavee Lackeen
Mighty Celt
Mickybo and Me
Isolation
Captial Letters
Breakfast on Pluto
Boy Eats Girl
Ugly Duckling and Me!
The Wind That Shakes the Barley
The Tiger’s Tail
The Front Line
Studs
Small Engine Repair
Middletown
Johnny Was
Dead Long Enough
48 Angels
True North
Tonight Is Cancelled
Summer of the Flying Saucer
Puffball
Garage
Dot.com
32A
Kings
Becoming Jane
How About You
Shrooms
Once
The Escapist
The Englishman
Our Wonderful Home
Niko and the Way to the Stars
Eden
Dorothy Mills
Kill Daddy, Goodnight
The Daisy Chain
Alarm
A Film With Me In It
Kisses
The Investigator
Princess
Nothing Personal 2
A Shine of Rainbows
Foxes
Vasha
The Hanged Man
Five Minutes of Heaven
Triage
Helen
Love and Savagery
Cracks
Perrier’s Bounty
Wide Open Spaces
The Secret of Kells
The Race
Eamon
His and Hers
One Hundred Mornings
Occi Versus the World
The Wake Wood
The Eclipse
Ondine
Savage
Cherrybomb
Happy Ever After

DWCommuter

For the record I own 4 titles.

The General
Adam & Paul
Song for a raggy boy
Bloody Sunday

Id be interested in who has what out of that list.

Overall Ive only seen 17 of those films on screen.

MovieExtras.ie: Derek

Perhaps some of the productions are not Oscar winning, but through the funding of the IFB, plenty of people starting in the industry have got an awful lot of good experience and learnt from the productions that they were involved with.

While Ireland is not a hot bed of big productions over the past couple of years, we have being involved in some really good stuff and without the funding from the IFB the people working on these productions (such as The Tudors, The Take, George Gently etc) would not have been able to get the experience.

We all have to start somewhere, whether it be a student production, filmbase funded production or an IFB production, it gives us the opportunity to learn and do better the next time.

This in no demeans some of the excellent (at times very niche) productions that have come from IFB funding or the successes that the IFB have had representing our industry on the international stage.

Ajos

I worked on eleven of those, all before 2004. I agree that the film board has been an invaluable source of experience - I'm a good example of it. But I think I and the rest of us could have gotten that experience while working on good films, commercial films, films that people would actually pay to see. Maybe the industry would have become self sustaining. Maybe I wouldn't have felt I had to leave the country to try and prove myself in a proper industry. Maybe maybe maybe...

Enbee

I share the views of ajos. The industry has been too dependent upon corporate welfare and this has bred complacency. The funding was going to have to be cut if the industry was ever to become viable but the required level of commercial focus has not materialised. It looks like the industry will be forced to escape from a poverty trap of its own making. I've emigrated to work in the industry abroad and I fear for the futures of the friends I've left behind.

A core level of activity will have to be sustained for Ireland to have a shot at building a sustainable industry so I would favour retaining some funding measures but commercial criteria will have to be accorded more importance.

chalkitdown

The focus of the IFB changed with the departure of Rod Stoneman, it has changed from cultural/artistic to having a more commercial bias.

Enbee

I've been pleased to see more genre films produced of late but I'm worried that this shift may have arrived too late. I live in London and even here Irish films rarely make an impression. I was quite impressed when I saw "Shrooms" advertised on buses though and was hoping to see such sights become more commonplace. Ireland has a reasonable profile on the small screen though.

Are there any stats available for the direct and indirect returns on recent investments? That's how the industry is going to have to fight its corner if its to dodge the axe - especially as careers in the industry are widely perceived as cushy numbers. I've done some searches but haven't found anything that makes a clear and strong case.

MovieExtras.ie: Derek

According to the PWC report 6,000 people have permanent employment in the Industry and it generates €500 million in income

Other stats that I have heard include:

A return of 3:1 on government investment in the Industry

20% of tourists cite that they came to Ireland because they saw Ireland depicted in a film (and the tourism industry is worth €6b), which means that indirectly there is a further €1.2b in tourism due to the Industry. Heard this earlier on newstalk, did not hear the full dicussion, perhaps someone can give the reference.

All these stats exclude the cultural and other non monetary benefits to Ireland

From the bushiness i am involved with (movieextras.ie), this year through casting and our directory work, there will be close on 12,000 paid man days which is the equivalent of about 60 people employed for a year. Also, we will be returning over €300,000 to the exchequer in terms of employers and employees PRSI, VAT and PAYE (on behalf of our members), all of this is one way. And we are a tiny cog in the machine.

Enbee

Thanks for those - very informative.

Have these facts somehow escaped McCarthy and his crack team?

Diogenes

derekme wrote: »

According to the PWC report 6,000 people have permanent employment in the Industry and it generates €500 million in income

Other stats that I have heard include:

A return of 3:1 on government investment in the Industry

20% of tourists cite that they came to Ireland because they saw Ireland depicted in a film (and the tourism industry is worth €6b), which means that indirectly there is a further €1.2b in tourism due to the Industry. Heard this earlier on newstalk, did not hear the full dicussion, perhaps someone can give the reference.

All these stats exclude the cultural and other non monetary benefits to Ireland

From the bushiness i am involved with (movieextras.ie), this year through casting and our directory work, there will be close on 12,000 paid man days which is the equivalent of about 60 people employed for a year. Also, we will be returning over €300,000 to the exchequer in terms of employers and employees PRSI, VAT and PAYE (on behalf of our members), all of this is one way. And we are a tiny cog in the machine.

I'm sorry but this is bullcrap. You provide a handful of people ad hoc un unionised jobs on a casual basis.

To suggest this is an industry is laughable. You're picking unskilled workers on a day basis, no better than a dock boss picking out workers outside the dock gates in the 1910s.

You can try mutter about the amount of money you give the exchequer and it's pennies.

This is the problem with the Irish Film Industry, we can provide as many extras, Assistant Art Directors, Focus Pullers, Sound Editors, etc at a job, but for two decades, the bosses, the Art Director, the Editor, the DoP, are always flown in from abroad.

You are the personification of Irish Industry, willing to support a foreign company coming over here, but heaven forbid if we really supported our own industry.

Nolanger

... and don't forget that most Irish films are pure sh*te!

Ajos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTQco5UnaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTQco5UnaI

ztoical

Ajos wrote: »

I'm completely torn over this. I feel that the Film Board has been a bad influence on the Irish Film Industry by putting amorphous "cultural" concerns over commercial ones and training an entire generation of filmmakers not to care about the financial realities of their projects, to the point where if the Board's false economy does go away the indigenous industry will probably completely collapse in the harsh light of economic reality.

But I have to acknowledge that I owe my entire career to the Film Board. A few years ago I "escaped" and I now work on economically self sustaining projects, but it was the experience I got working on Board funded projects that allowed me to do that. And I could just as easily still be dependent on them for my living if things had worked out differently.

So, I'm torn. Part of me would be glad to see the Board go away and the industry be forced to make films that people will actually pay to see, and another part is aware that this is intensely hypocritical of me!

Dragging this pack up as it looks like the film board isn't going anywhere given the Green Party vote this week and I have to say I think it's a mistake to keep it. I agree with what Ajos says about the film board here and am in the same boat, don't like the way the film board run but have had work because of them. I think there needs to be a better system in place where people get that support at the start and learn the skills needed but after X amount of time they need to feck of and do it on their own. I know alot of people working in animation for 10+ years and all their projects are funded by the Film Board and frankly that's just not on. One maybe two projects to help you get started, ever business loses money for it's 5 years so have that help there but after 6 or 7 years a business should be able to support itself.

malene

The film board reall does support turkey's of films. It should not be abolished, but the people tehre replaced with those with an idea of what makes a great film. We seem to be making a hell of a lot of horror films, why?? For a nation of story tellers, we are seriously creatively impotent.

OR, the creative and possible commercial films are turned down for funding by some nummskull there.

mal

Enbee

I don't mind that more horror films are being produced. A healthy amount of genre production is actually quite desirable. The Australian industry was kick started by the production of 'beer 'n' fart' films - there's no harm in us doing something similar.

Ajos

Enbee wrote: »

I don't mind that more horror films are being produced. A healthy amount of genre production is actually quite desirable. The Australian industry was kick started by the production of 'beer 'n' fart' films - there's no harm in us doing something similar.

Agreed. Horror films definitely fall into the category of "films people will actually pay to see". If they're good!

Galvasean

Ajos wrote: »

Agreed. Horror films definitely fall into the category of "films people will actually pay to see". If they're good!

Unfortunately the likes of Isolation, Shrooms and Boy Eats Girl (okay, horror-comedy) are far from good.

Nolanger

An organisation like the IFB should not be funding commercial horror movies as they'll always end up being crap. The IFB should be funding arty-horror stuff that has yet to be made in this country.
Methinks the IFB are pulling at straws - they've failed over and over no matter what kind of movie they fund.