Two Wiggle Mountain bikes - good value?

GoHardOrGoHome

There are two Wiggle mountain bikes I'm looking at.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Saracen_Trace_2_2009/5360042003/
Price: 489.49

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Saracen_Mantra_3_2009/5360042002/
Price: 571.08

Better travel on the second fork. I presume they're both entry level forks. Rockshox Tora and Rockshox Dart.

Both have hydraulic disc brakes.

Opinions?!

seamus

What are you looking at using it for? The geometry of the Mantra 3 suggests that it's more a DH hardtail than an all-rounder.

GoHardOrGoHome

seamus wrote: »

What are you looking at using it for? The geometry of the Mantra 3 suggests that it's more a DH hardtail than an all-rounder.

General xc. Mucking about in Ballinastoe, Ticknock etc. No racing.

I don't know much about downhilling but the fork wouldn't be great for a downhill bike I don't think. I see what you mean about the geometry. Yeah, maybe it's not right for me.

I was pretty much sorting for price.

t0mm

I wouldn't worry about the extra suspension on the Mantra, a lot of forks and bikes these days are 130mm as opposed to 100mm which was the norm. If it isn't for racing then I'd go for the Mantra, better spec, better forks and the extra suspension will allow you more room for error.

GoHardOrGoHome

t0mm wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the extra suspension on the Mantra, a lot of forks and bikes these days are 130mm as opposed to 100mm which was the norm. If it isn't for racing then I'd go for the Mantra, better spec, better forks and the extra suspension will allow you more room for error.

Thanks Tomm. Better spec eh? That's what I want to hear.

I suppose I'm just looking for confirmation that it's not totally the wrong bike. If I'm using it as often I think I will I'll be able to shell out more cash next year for a decent rig (probably still hard tail though).

I like the idea of the 130mm travel.

blorg

One thing to bear in mind- I don't think the Tora 289 fork on the Mantra has lock out while the Dart does. Lockout is so so nice for climbing or if you have to cycle the bike on the road to get to the trail. I am a beginner and 100mm is certainly enough for me in Ballinastoe although more is always nice to have.

kona

Word of warning, Rock shox forks, in particular the darts and the toras with the lockout function are pretty weak IMO. They have also had issues with the seals.

Just keep it in mind, its not a stay away from the bike problem!

t0mm

Realistically at that price point you're not going to get great anything. Rockshox tora's are higher in the range than the Dart, which is their most basic model. Also the sram x5 gearing I would put above shimano deore. Lockout is useful, but it's not a must have, you can live without it. As a beginner bike that Mantra is pefect, I can't find anything else similar spec for that price. Ride it for a year, then you can decide whether to go for something more racey (lighter with 100mm travel) or something a bit beefier to try a bit of DH on. A hardtail is perfect for a beginner anyway, you'll learn far better bike handling skills than you would on a full-sus.

GoHardOrGoHome

blorg wrote: »

One thing to bear in mind- I don't think the Tora 289 fork on the Mantra has lock out while the Dart does. Lockout is so so nice for climbing or if you have to cycle the bike on the road to get to the trail. I am a beginner and 100mm is certainly enough for me in Ballinastoe although more is always nice to have.

t0mm wrote: »

Realistically at that price point you're not going to get great anything. Rockshox tora's are higher in the range than the Dart, which is their most basic model. Also the sram x5 gearing I would put above shimano deore. Lockout is useful, but it's not a must have, you can live without it. As a beginner bike that Mantra is pefect, I can't find anything else similar spec for that price. Ride it for a year, then you can decide whether to go for something more racey (lighter with 100mm travel) or something a bit beefier to try a bit of DH on. A hardtail is perfect for a beginner anyway, you'll learn far better bike handling skills than you would on a full-sus.

Thanks lads on the above. Ideally I'd have my fast racing xc bike and my full-sus bike depending on the terrain.

Just for building up my skills I realise that a hard tail will help me improve quicker than a full-sus which would probably let me away with too much!

I reckon I'll go with the Mantra. Probably put the order through tonight. I have a pair of Shimano shoes from a mountain biking holiday I went on a couple of years ago so I'm going to get the bike and pedals. Anything else I should get at the same time?

I've cycled with the lockout and I agree it's great to have but sure if it makes me work harder on the uphill it'll make me stronger and when I eventually do get a really sweet bike I'll appreciate all those extras!

t0mm

Helmet! Whatever about wearing one on the road, you NEED one on the trails. If you're riding along, fall and hit your head, it could quite literally be days before you're found. A Giro Hex would be a good one to get. Also a pump and a couple of spare tubs, it's not fun having to push your bike back home when you're deep in a muddy forest.

Those things you need, things which might be useful would be gloves (full finger) as a bit of protection and also to stop them freezing off, and a light rain jacket that folds down small in the bottom of your bag. Also a multi tool for on trail repairs.

GoHardOrGoHome

t0mm wrote: »

Helmet! Whatever about wearing one on the road, you NEED one on the trails. If you're riding along, fall and hit your head, it could quite literally be days before you're found. A Giro Hex would be a good one to get. Also a pump and a couple of spare tubs, it's not fun having to push your bike back home when you're deep in a muddy forest.

Those things you need, things which might be useful would be gloves (full finger) as a bit of protection and also to stop them freezing off, and a light rain jacket that folds down small in the bottom of your bag. Also a multi tool for on trail repairs.

Thanks Tomm. Yes, I already have helmet, gloves, and hoodless cycle rain jacket (race face).

I'll definitely get the tubes, and I'll check I still have a pump and multi-tool somewhere in my stores! I don't have a pair of full-finger gloves. Might get a pair of mega cheap clear plastic glasses for mud spatter and the odd branch/briars.

I'm nearly all set. If I get the pedals they should come with attachments for my mountain bike Shimano shoes I already have. Is that correct?

t0mm

Yup, pedals come with cleats. I assume your shoes are SPD's? Then any SPD or SPD-compatable pedals will work. However, a lot of people (myself included) still use good normal flat pedals, eg DMR v8, so going for an SPD system is only a personal choice thing. Both types of pedal have their advantages, but if you already have the shoes then no reason not to get clipless SPD pedals.

kona

t0mm wrote: »

As a beginner bike that Mantra is pefect, I can't find anything else similar spec for that price.

Carrera Kraken is similar spec, e100 less.

Sram sx5 Vs Deore. Shimano parts are cheaper to replace than sram, also IMO they are better built, with too much plastic being used on the SX4,5.

They are both good shifters though.

t0mm

kona wrote: »

Carrera Kraken is similar spec, e100 less.

Hmmm, Suntour XCR forks though, I'd pay the €100 extra for the Rockshox Tora!

steinone

Whats wrong with the xcr fork?
Even the new one with remote lockout?

t0mm

Just not as good as the Tora IMO.

GoHardOrGoHome

Ordered the Mantra!

Thanks for the help guys.

See you on the hills.

kona

t0mm wrote: »

Just not as good as the Tora IMO.

The tora on the matra there is the bottom model, tora 289 U-turn. Definatley not worth paying e100 more for. Especially considering to buy new they are less than e100.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=21841

SR Suntour Forks are very good forks, they would be on par or better than the 289 tora. Both are coild sprung, they are both going to be just as crude as each other, Id rather save the e100, wreck the Suntours then out the e100 towards a set of air sprung forks.

OP, The toras are adjustable, but looking at the geometry on the mantra, Id leave it at the 130mm, any lower and Id imagine it will be a pain in the ass to handle:)

GoHardOrGoHome

kona wrote: »

OP, The toras are adjustable, but looking at the geometry on the mantra, Id leave it at the 130mm, any lower and Id imagine it will be a pain in the ass to handle:)

Thanks Kona, I'll leave them as is and see how it feels. Have a weeks holidays coming up so intend to get a good couple of days in the hills!

rob1891

Is it me or does the picture of the Mantra on wiggle look like the Tora logo was photoshopped onto a 130mm Fox F32? Gold anodised stanchions, blue and red adjustment dials. Bit fcuking misleading. You should email them when you get the bike and see if they'll offer a voucher or something ;-)

In any case, your bike will look like this and it sounds great.

Personally, I'd have paid the 100 for a Tora over a Suntour as you did. Never seen a Tora out of shape on the trails and seen plenty of Suntours barely moving, covered in oil and generally looking like they are about to fall apart. Also, the Tora 286 U-turn is worth more than the one linked to by Kona, but it is OEM only so you won't find it available to buy aftermarket generally. The only thing it is missing from the more expensive model (302 U-turn, costing about 230 euros) is lockout, which I wouldn't find important at all.

Enjoy your bike!

GoHardOrGoHome

Not that I'm bitter but Wiggle have reduced the price of the Saracen Mantra 3 to 493 euro. Aaargh!

I'm still new to the bike but I'm very happy with it at the moment.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Saracen_Mantra_3_2009/5360042002/