Are unpaid internships legal?

contract2008

I am aware of a certain company in dublin that has up to 10 people on internships with them (a significant proportion of their total staff).

The are unpaid and work from 10am until 3 or 4pm.
The internship is for 3 months with the "possibility" of a job at the end. If they get the job there is no back pay for the previous 3 months.

Training consists of a couple of days at the start followed by dealing with actual customers, making sales etc. Basically the same work as the paid employees.

This seems wrong to me on a number of points
1. the employer is abusing the current job market. They clearly need people to deal with all their business.
2. surely the interns should get some sort of minimum wage.
3. the training doesn't follow the "structured training or study" from the "mimumum wage act".
4. while they can get people working for free how can anyone else in the company hope for any sort of pay rise
5. if this practice spreads how can anyone hope to get a job!

Any thoughts?

Sposs

Far as im aware there legal because it's what the interns agree to before they take up the internship and i presume they would be still entitled to collect the dole during this period.

If people didn't like the conditions they wouldnt work there.

Otis Driftwood

Alot of companies have started offering internships and you better believe the number of companies is going to increase over the next 24 months.

An internship serves to give grads or individuals experience in a working environment that they are simply not skilled enough to be paid to do.

With the massive amounts of grads unable to find work then internships are the wave of the future.

I do agree there should be some form of re-muneration/regulation though because no doubt some companies are going to abuse the system.

Personally speaking there is one field in particular that I would work for free just to get experience in it but unfortunatly jobs like this are like hens teeth outside of Dublin so I simply wouldnt be able to live up there without some kind of income.(aside from social welfare)

experiMental

Yes, this is legal. However, if there is a problem, all of the interns can group together and complain to their trade union, once they are in mid-project stage, or stage a protest/sign a petition and forward it to the government, etc.

dlofnep

If you are not earning money, then you are still entitled to welfare.

KTRIC

Sounds like slavery to me. You'd want to be pretty desperate to work for free for 3 months unpaid with the possibility of getting a job at the end.

Otis Driftwood

Put yourself in a grads shoes.

Fresh out of college.
Average Degree from an IT (say a 2:2 in business).
Job market in the crapper.
No company hiring grads unless they are in the top tier from some of the big Universities.
Competition is rife.
Would you not want to give yourself any little edge you could?

I applaude anyone that would take a 3 month internship with no garuntees at the end.Better than sitting around bitching about the state of the country,no?

fasterkitten

dlofnep wrote: »

If you are not earning money, then you are still entitled to welfare.

Untrue. You have to be available for and seeking work.

dlofnep

fasterkitten wrote: »

Untrue. You have to be available for and seeking work.

You can still be available for work, and you are currently seeking work.

PCPhoto

you cant be available for work if you are doing an internship ..... to qualify for "the dole" you need to be available to work a basic 40hour week....doing an internship doesnt allow for that - HOWEVER - I do believe there are (or were) various grants available for interns.

contract2008

In this case most of the interns / slaves are not new grads. They're from various backgrounds and just finding it hard to find any job.

donkey balls

this is happening alot in the airline world were new cadets are flying for no renumeration in certain companies

leeroybrown

Two things:

• Unpaid internships are legal. An employee only gains the right to a minimum wage if they are paid. Think of it as exactly the same as someone volunteering for a charity as they're seen as exactly the same by the law.
• Traditionally, unpaid internships automatically disqualify the intern from claiming social welfare. As I know there has been a very recent move to change this so that alternative re-training models could fit into the social welfare model. I'll try to dig up a source for that later. That said, I'd expect that some hoops would be put in to jump through even if it's changed.

experiMental

leeroybrown wrote: »

Two things:

• Traditionally unpaid internships automatically disqualify the intern from claiming social welfare. As I know there has been a very recent move to change this so that alternative re-training models could fit into the social welfare model. I'll try to dig up a source for that later. That said, I'd expect that some hoops would be put in to jump through even if it's changed.

What do you mean by "traditionally unpaid internships"? The ones like in design/advertising business, which are not really supported by trade unions or government activity?

Another question: how would it be possible for someone living independently to pay the bills if he/she would be disqualified from social welfare?

Royale with Cheese

KTRIC wrote: »

Sounds like slavery to me. You'd want to be pretty desperate to work for free for 3 months unpaid with the possibility of getting a job at the end.

Yeah well a lot of people in this country are pretty desperate right now.

leeroybrown

experiMental wrote: »

What do you mean by "traditionally unpaid internships"? The ones like in design/advertising business, which are not really supported by trade unions or government activity?

Typo. Missing comma. It should read "Traditionally, unpaid internships...". What I mean is that those working unpaid internships were always disqualified from benefits in the past.

experiMental wrote: »

Another question: how would it be possible for someone living independently to pay the bills if he/she would be disqualified from social welfare?

Simple. They'd do what people always did - stay on social welfare rather than take the unpaid internship.

As I said above, I'm fairly sure that there has been a move to change this recently. I'll try to find a source.

jimmycrackcorm

It used to be called work experience - typically for students during 3rd year college.

Jo King

dlofnep wrote: »

If you are not earning money, then you are still entitled to welfare.

To get welfare you have to be available for and genuinely seeking work. AN intern is not available for for and their ability to seek it is very much reduced, hence NO WELFARE.

BillUnder

If you are creating value for your employer and doing similar work to paid employees you should be paid at least minimum wage regardless of whether you are called an intern. If you are shadowing an employee and not doing much work that is of value to the employer then they don't have to pay you. There is a lot of abuse in this grey area by employers and there doesn't seem to be any enforcement of the law. It seems to be up to the intern to bring a case against the employer.