Kearney vs. Nacewa for Leinster FB

ironingbored

With Kearney producing scintillating displays in two Lion's tests and Nacewa finally finding his best position during the HC semi and final, who will Leinster play at 15 next season?

danthefan

From a Leinster point of view I actually don't care, they're both superb players.

From an Ireland point of view hopefully Kearney.

Edit - though Kearney will miss the start of the season, if Nacewa puts in big performances it'll obviously give him an advantage.

CatFromHue

kearney was having a drop in form and then got the mumps. if neither of those happened i dont think nacewa would have got a chance at 15.
i can see nacewa playing a few different positions next season but yeah i think he'll 15 until kearney comes back from his holidays. but then there is dempsey as well...........

Tim Robbins

CatFromHue wrote: »

kearney was having a drop in form and then got the mumps. if neither of those happened i dont think nacewa would have got a chance at 15.
i can see nacewa playing a few different positions next season but yeah i think he'll 15 until kearney comes back from his holidays. but then there is dempsey as well...........

We have Fitz, Kearny, Isa and SHaggy to cover three positions with a few of the academy lads to get a run. Seems a reasonable arrangement.

I heard Girv is just playing for nure next season.

[Jackass]

It's good to be able to rotate it, we also have the spot for right wing of Nacewa and Horgan....you almost forget what an amazing player Horgan is on form until he gets it back. That's a tough one to call also.

I'd like to see Kearney as first choice 15, and Horgan / Nacewa at 14, but it's nice to know that drops in form can bring in very valid alternatives.

And don't forget Keogh, who has cult status at Quins and was superb for Leinster on the left wing with the little oppertunitys he got, so there's plenty of options.

sm.org

CatFromHue wrote: »

kearney was having a drop in form and then got the mumps. if neither of those happened i dont think nacewa would have got a chance at 15.
i can see nacewa playing a few different positions next season but yeah i think he'll 15 until kearney comes back from his holidays. but then there is dempsey as well...........

I'd be incliuned to agree but after having a great Irish tour last summer Kearney was pretty average for Leinster/Ireland in 90% of his games there after.

Hopefully we wont get a repeat of it this season.

danthefan

sm.org wrote: »

I'd be incliuned to agree but after having a great Irish tour last summer Kearney was pretty average for Leinster/Ireland in 90% of his games there after.

Hopefully we wont get a repeat of it this season.

No, he wasn't.

wixfjord

danthefan wrote: »

No, he wasn't.

Where wasnt he? I have to agree I thought he was very quiet bar bits of the 6N. Nacewa is also a much better attacker for me, kearney seems to get hit by the first man a lot. However I would def feel safer with kearney at fb, as he is a better all round footballer.

thomond2006

Maybe a mod should start a poll here.

Off topic but, is Girvan Dempsey retired?

wixfjord

thomond2006 wrote: »

Maybe a mod should start a poll here.

Off topic but, is Girvan Dempsey retired?

Yeah I heard something about this too. Seems he is going to play ail with terenure. Would deff be a loss.

[Jackass]

We'll see when the squad for the season is confirmed in the not so distant future. He'd definitley be in it, but they may have sent him out to pasture in AIL. Which may open the door for the like of Kearney Jr.

Leinster have a way of letting a player go as soon as he would be in line for a break. (Ronan to Munster the year Gleeson retires, Jones to Munster the year Dempsey retires, Keatley to Connacht just before Contepomi retires).

I still really rate Dempsey, but he's so down the pecking order at Leinster let alone Ireland, that it would be nice if we kept him in the sqaud to call upon if needed, but for him to pave the way for younger players to get game time.

He's a real legend of Leinster, has been a great servant over the years.

Size=everything

It certainly a tough question. I think you have to go with Kearney as on Lions Tour performances he is right now the best full back in the world. If he can keep up that level of performance (which is a big if) then hes got to start. A back three of :

Fitzgerald - Kearney - Nacewa

Is simply amazing and the best back 3 in club rugby right now

Competition for places never hurt anyone and with the likes of Dave Kearney and Ian Madigan coming through theres going to be a lot of competition for full back for a long time.

chupacabra

[Jackass] wrote: »

We'll see when the squad for the season is confirmed in the not so distant future. He'd definitley be in it, but they may have sent him out to pasture in AIL. Which may open the door for the like of Kearney Jr.

If anyone should get the place its Ian Madigan. Better player than Dave imo.

sm.org

danthefan wrote: »

No, he wasn't.

With reasoning like that how can I even begin to argue against you??

Maybe the fact that he was playing on the wing for the any of the important games for Leinster/Ireland up to december and was pretty much third choice FB come jan might hint at a dip in form.

danthefan

Hows this for reasoning - ever present for Leinster and Ireland (HEC and Grand Slam champs by the way) until the mumps, selected for the Lions and involved in all 3 Lions tests. A few coaches obviously rated him.

Amabokke

I believe that if you have two good players in a position you should give the home player the advantage, i.e Kearney. What's the point of putting him on the bench if he is good and also will be the first choice fullback for Ireland. Nacewa will just need to suck it up, enjoy his paycheque and play where he is needed.

danthefan

Amabokke wrote: »

I believe that if you have two good players in a position you should give the home player the advantage, i.e Kearney. What's the point of putting him on the bench if he is good and also will be the first choice fullback for Ireland. Nacewa will just need to suck it up, enjoy his paycheque and play where he is needed.

There's no way Kearney will be benching for Leinster, worst case scenario for him is he starts on the wing.

Rubgy King

simply no debate here. RK is by far any away the best 15 we have (not though the best in world rugby - which is a massive stretch on relaity!).

we need cover at 10 so Nacewa fills those boots nicely

Amabokke

Rubgy King wrote: »

simply no debate here. RK is by far any away the best 15 we have (not though the best in world rugby - which is a massive stretch on relaity!).

we need cover at 10 so Nacewa fills those boots nicely

What about Sexton?

Rubgy King

Amabokke wrote: »

What about Sexton?

sexton to start at 10. he has all the talent and grit, just needs the playing time

thomond2006

Rubgy King wrote: »

we need cover at 10 so Nacewa fills those boots nicely

Shaun Berne will be the fly-half cover, not Nacewa.

Even Chieka must realise that the "Nacewa at 10" ship has sailed.

d'Oracle

The only reason that this could be an issue is cos Cheika is mental.

Nacewa is just not there next to Kearney.
And playing him is suicide. Was before he came to leinster, is now.

I cannot see how people rate him.

justsomebloke

have to agree Isa at 10 should just be a no go area at this point

wixfjord

Rubgy King wrote: »

simply no debate here. RK is by far any away the best 15 we have (not though the best in world rugby - which is a massive stretch on relaity!).

we need cover at 10 so Nacewa fills those boots nicely

Explain why kearney is so much better than nacewa in your eyes then? (it was said on the recent feedback thread that we should give new users a chance to explain themselves before we tear into them!)
Nacewa was magnificent at fb at the end of last season, strong under high ball, great up and unders and most important, he was much more effective than kearney was last season attacking wise. Kearney as I have said gets caught by the first man a lot of the time. Im not however saying nacewa is a better fb, Im just saying he had a better season when in the position than kearney did last year.

wixfjord

d'Oracle wrote: »

The only reason that this could be an issue is cos Cheika is mental.

Nacewa is just not there next to Kearney.
And playing him is suicide. Was before he came to leinster, is now.

I cannot see how people rate him.

You didnt see the last few and most important games of last season then??Its very easy to say its suicide, why do you think this?

Stev_o

Kearney was great up until the 6N. He played a world class game against Edinburgh at home and then went quiet all through the 6N. In the 6N he didn't run as he did in the previous months and instead went for up and unders which he couldn't kick right, every single one went too long and thus didn't allow him to compete for the ball. Honestly he showed ask Murphy to show him how to do them because Murphy's ones are probably the best in the world.

Anyway that experience seemed to throw him off his normal game and it wasn't until the Lions test matches that we finally saw a return to his counter attacks.

d'Oracle

wixfjord wrote: »

You didnt see the last few and most important games of last season then??Its very easy to say its suicide, why do you think this?

I did.
Note Kearneys absence due to illness.

Because I have been watching him murder his own backline by kicking posession away for 3 years now.

Aidric

The swerve is past it at Leinster level at this stage, full time in the AIB league would be fine for him. It's hard to ignore Kearneys current form so I'd have him at FB ahead of Nacewa. It's handy to know that Leinster can call on him for cover at FB though.

justsomebloke

wixfjord wrote: »

You didnt see the last few and most important games of last season then??Its very easy to say its suicide, why do you think this?

agreed anyone who says Sexton should start at 10 after his semi final and final performance also has to give Isa the same consideration that in these 2 matches he played out of his skin and has as much a right to the 15 jersey as Kearney.

Truthfully both of Kearney and Isa bring something different to the 15 jersey and hopefully those differences can be exploited by cheika depending on who we are playing

wixfjord

d'Oracle wrote: »

I did.
Note Kearneys absence due to illness.

Because I have been watching him murder his own backline by kicking posession away for 3 years now.

Yeah I noted kearneys absence but did you note that nacewa played better in those two games than kearney did for leinter all season. He certainly didnt murder his own backline from 15 whatever about 10, where he played a lot of rugby in the last three years, but thats not what were discussing here.

What Im saying is that nacewa had a great end to a season that kearney did not shine in, and there is no way kearney should walk back into full back, though I feel he should be first choice when it gets to the business end of the season.

What you are saying is

The only reason that this could be an issue is cos Cheika is mental.

Nacewa is just not there next to Kearney.
And playing him is suicide. Was before he came to leinster, is now.

I cannot see how people rate him.

and that is wrong.

ALH-06

d'Oracle wrote: »

Nacewa is just not there next to Kearney.
And playing him is suicide. Was before he came to leinster, is now.

I can't believe this statement. Both parts of it seem entirely wrong to me.

Firstly, as I've said before, I think Kearney is over-rated. He's immense under the high ball and a very good kicker, but crucially he lacks pace! As a result he doesn't hit the attacking line anywhere near as well as Nacewa does, and I'm still convinced the latter is a lot more creative with ball in hand than Kearney is.

As for playing Nacewa being 'suicide'? I know you can't judge a player solely on two games, but in the two biggest club matches of the season, Nacewa was brilliant at FB. That Darcy try against Munster was a beautiful example of running attacking rugby, and just wouldn't have happened had Nacewa not been on the field!

ALH-06

And Kearney being the best FB in the world? He's not even the best in Ireland!

I don't mean to troll, but does no-one else think that he's being massively hyped up? In the Lions tour for example - solid under the high ball and some nice passing, but he was given way too much space for his try in the 2nd test and that break after taking the up-and-under in the 3rd test was created by a poor missed tackle which broke the Saffer line.

ie. He didn't do anything wrong and got a bit of luck - took his opportunities. And high balls aside, he was never tested in defence!

danthefan

Who is the best in Ireland so?

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

Who is the best in Ireland so?

Oh, Denis Hurley by far.

ALH-06

danthefan wrote: »

Who is the best in Ireland so?

Nacewa!

Ok ok maybe I jumped the gun a little - Kearney's kicking and aerial ability can't be matched, but Nacewa's definitely a better attacking FB than him I think. And stronger in the tackle.

d'Oracle

I think I worded my post poorly.

I had intended to imply that Kearney is a better fullback than Nacewa.
Which I think he is.
And that playing Nacewa at 10 would be suicide.

Nacewa thinks he can kick little chips and grubbers and stuff, but he can't. Ultimately he costs possession, he is very effective as a broken field runner, I have him as a winger.

When he came to Leinster I facepalmed so hard it hurt.

danthefan

Nacewa's performance in the SF was just all class, in attack and defence.

Requiem4adream

ALH-06 wrote: »

And Kearney being the best FB in the world? He's not even the best in Ireland!

I don't mean to troll, but does no-one else think that he's being massively hyped up? In the Lions tour for example - solid under the high ball and some nice passing, but he was given way too much space for his try in the 2nd test and that break after taking the up-and-under in the 3rd test was created by a poor missed tackle which broke the Saffer line.

ie. He didn't do anything wrong and got a bit of luck - took his opportunities. And high balls aside, he was never tested in defence!

I'd have to disagree with this. 1st off, Lions tests - solid under the high ball doesn't come close to doing him justice. Some of his takes were just phenomenal under the utmost pressure and in the process he secured valuable possession for the Lions which gave them a huge platform.

Having watched his try too many times in the 2nd test, how was he given too much space? Firstly it was a great take from the pass, he ran a great line and timed his burst of acceleration to perfection. Arguably he took the harder of 2 options as well, the easy option was to look for contact and offload to Bowe on the touchline.

I think he was far and away above 'solid' in everything he did in the Lions Tests. His influence on almost every Test was massive - his catching and kicking was exemplary for the most part, which clearly had a huge positive momentum for the Lions in terms of territory and possession.

I felt he had a good 6N as well and the mumps obviously didn't help towards end of season. Meh what's wrong with talking him up anyway, he went out on the biggest stage of all and proved he could cut it. I'd rather talk him up personally. Same applies to Bowe, Fitz, Earls, Ferris, Heaslip etc.

thomond2006

I think Warwick has it just over Kearney tbh.

If you watch Munster vs Ospreys QF, you can see Warwick entering the line from FB and doing a 10's job along with ROG to get ball wide quickly.

Besides that, he can do everything that Kearney does just as well. While Kearney has a big left boot, PW is a very accurate kicker out of hand.

Not many FBs are capable of that.

A lot of credit goes to McGahan for putting Warwick there.

ALH-06

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Having watched his try too many times in the 2nd test, how was he given too much space? Firstly it was a great take from the pass, he ran a great line and timed his burst of acceleration to perfection. Arguably he took the harder of 2 options as well, the easy option was to look for contact and offload to Bowe on the touchline.

There was a straight-forward one man overlap, and Steyn chose to stick to the winger, giving Kearney the space to run in for the try. How could he 'look for contact' as per your easier option? Steyn held off him, there was no tackler until it was too late. It was a good finish, don't get me wrong, but people are now hyping up Kearney as one of the best FBs in the world because of that relatively straight-forward try, and because he did the basics well.

I agree with the rest of your post though. I've already acknowledged that he's a great kicker and fielder.

Requiem4adream

ALH-06 wrote: »

There was a straight-forward one man overlap, and Steyn chose to stick to the winger, giving Kearney the space to run in for the try. How could he 'look for contact' as per your easier option? Steyn held off him, there was no tackler until it was too late. It was a good finish, don't get me wrong, but people are now hyping up Kearney as one of the best FBs in the world because of that relatively straight-forward try, and because he did the basics well.

I agree with the rest of your post though. I've already acknowledged that he's a great kicker and fielder.

Sorry i just meant the gap he ended up going for wasn't exactly a lot of space, he had to accelerate through a relatively small gap with a low body position. Versus maybe staying upright until Steyn made the hit and tried a Drico style offload. Anyway just pedantics i suppose from me sorry... It was a good finish though!

Reading some of the saffa forums he's very highly regarded. Maybe doing the basics extremely well is enough. On recent form (6N and Lions Tour) i don't think it's unfair to rate him in the top echelon of FB's and there's def potential for more to come.

Tim Robbins

ALH-06 wrote: »

I can't believe this statement. Both parts of it seem entirely wrong to me.

Firstly, as I've said before, I think Kearney is over-rated. He's immense under the high ball and a very good kicker, but crucially he lacks pace! As a result he doesn't hit the attacking line anywhere near as well as Nacewa does, and I'm still convinced the latter is a lot more creative with ball in hand than Kearney is.

When Kearney first broke onto the scene, he was exceptionally fast and ran at players far more than he did this year.

I fear he may have been Kidney-ised.

I also think he's over rated. Amazing under the high ball.

But at tackling, I've yet to see him put in a big hit. He has also been burnt a few times including by Earls in the ML.

At finishing, I don't think he has the reach and power down of Shaggy.

At pace, he used to be very fast and a great stepper but he's either been Kidney-ised or else he has bulked up and lost a bit of speed in the process.

Tim Robbins

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think Warwick has it just over Kearney tbh.

If you watch Munster vs Ospreys QF, you can see Warwick entering the line from FB and doing a 10's job along with ROG to get ball wide quickly.

Besides that, he can do everything that Kearney does just as well. While Kearney has a big left boot, PW is a very accurate kicker out of hand.

Not many FBs are capable of that.

A lot of credit goes to McGahan for putting Warwick there.

Warwick played FB several times for Connaught. As for saying he has everything Kearney has, that's just stretching it a bit. There's no way he'd be as good under the high ball for example.

As for moving positions, loads of Aussies backs move around the 3 / 4's. Larkham was a full back at one stage. It's a real Irish thing to plonk someone in the one position and leave him there for their career and just give them a fix roll. Whereas in Oz, rugby is more free flowing and back positions aren't as fixed.

Size=everything

I am sorry but Kearney is in the top 3 full backs in the world right now simple as. And this isn't just Leinster bias go onto SH rugby forums and they agree. Many have him ranked #1 on current form. Under high ball no one is better. No one has a better boot. He is exceptional at everything you want a full back to do. In the Lions we saw he was excellent with ball in hand as well and defensively he was never left wanting. Add to this he is only 22!

chupacabra

With the likes of Ian Madigan and Dave Kearney hopefully getting full contracts soon, Kearney and Nacewa may have a fight on their hands from the younger boys.

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

With the likes of Ian Madigan and Dave Kearney hopefully getting full contracts soon, Kearney and Nacewa may have a fight on their hands from the younger boys.

Its amazing the talent Leinster have coming through really doing their bit for Irish rugby. We'd be pretty ****ed in the future without their contribution :eek:

ALH-06

Size=everything wrote: »

I am sorry but Kearney is in the top 3 full backs in the world right now simple as. And this isn't just Leinster bias go onto SH rugby forums and they agree. Many have him ranked #1 on current form. Under high ball no one is better. No one has a better boot. He is exceptional at everything you want a full back to do. In the Lions we saw he was excellent with ball in hand as well and defensively he was never left wanting. Add to this he is only 22!

Exceptional at everything at FB? There is a long list of players who are better with ball in hand than Kearney and defensively, he was never tested. And I have never seen Kearney hit a line like this.

Just out of interest, do people now rate Kearney higher than Lee Byrne?

ALH-06

chupacabra wrote: »

With the likes of Ian Madigan and Dave Kearney hopefully getting full contracts soon, Kearney and Nacewa may have a fight on their hands from the younger boys.

Slightly off topic but maybe Madigan can be developed at 10, given the strength in depth at 15 coming through (Kearney Snr & Jnr, Jones, Earls etc)? I think I remember him playing at 10 in the SCT but I'm not sure. He's a great kicker and passer, good all round footballer. Would love to see him and McKinley being given gametime at OH in the new A League.

Imagine having a choice of Sexton, Madigan, Keatley and McKinley at 10 a few years down the line!

RtD

ALH-06 wrote: »

Exceptional at everything at FB? There is a long list of players who are better with ball in hand than Kearney and defensively, he was never tested. And I have never seen Kearney hit a line like this.

Just out of interest, do people now rate Kearney higher than Lee Byrne?

I shall counter with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUSANCkoX5s