Constitutionl Right of Association

catch88

Can someone correct me if Im wrong here. Don't we have a right of association as part of our constitution?

For example: If Mary's contract of employment says that she must subscribe to a certain trade union, isn't that in breach of her constitutional right?

theo2008

I think yes, Mary would be in her rights not to join the particular trade union. But an employer does have a right to decide which trade union, if any, they will deal with. So, if Mary joins another TU, the employer would be within its right not to deal with it.

Sully

I'd have thought most employers would avoid unions which seem to be more trouble then they are worth.

IT Loser

Sully wrote: »

I'd have thought most employers would avoid unions which seem to be more trouble then they are worth.

Sounds like most Unions, if you are an employer.

OP: the law is firmly established, all Citizens have the right of free association, which carries with a necessary corrollary, namely that all Citizens have a right of free "dissociation" {or dis-association}.

You are as free to opt out as you are to opt in.

Our man in Havana

I have come across employment contracts that state you must join a certain union as part of your job.

IT Loser

Bond-007 wrote: »

I have come across employment contracts that state you must join a certain union as part of your job.

Oh, I dont doubt it. Paper has never refused ink and employers will try anything.

Fitz vs Edu. Co. Of Ireland and Meskell vs CIE establish clearly that the individual has the right of association and dissociation.

Aluset vs White clearly establishes that NO CONTRACT can be SUPRA to the Constitutional Rights. Where it attempts to be so superior, its offending terms are immediately struck down and rendered null.

Tom Young

catch88 wrote: »

Can someone correct me if Im wrong here. Don't we have a right of association as part of our constitution?

For example: If Mary's contract of employment says that she must subscribe to a certain trade union, isn't that in breach of her constitutional right?

Yes, however this right is what is termed an unspecified right. There is association and dissociation which stems from the seminal case of Meskell v CIE.

Subscription is optional.

Victor

Sully wrote: »

I'd have thought most employers would avoid unions which seem to be more trouble then they are worth.

The current electrical strike is because of disagreements and factions within the employers, not the unions. Dealing with one (or a few) specific union can be a lot better than dealing with **all** the unions and anyone else aswell.

GerardKeating

catch88 wrote: »

Can someone correct me if Im wrong here. Don't we have a right of association as part of our constitution?

For example: If Mary's contract of employment says that she must subscribe to a certain trade union, isn't that in breach of her constitutional right?

Not always, she does not have to acept the contract of employment.

If she was made the offfer of employemnt, subject to joing the union.

partyguinness

GerardKeating wrote: »

Not always, she does not have to acept the contract of employment.

If she was made the offfer of employemnt, subject to joing the union.

Yes, teachers are a classic example of this. Many of them think they must join a union to get a teaching job. I have heard teachers say:

"Oh it is a ASTI/NUI school. I must join and pay the subscription. I have no choice.".

I havent looked into it but it seems very odd and there may very well be restrictive practices/competition law issues here. It seem that the teaching unions have a very tight grip in Irish schools and carved up nicely between themselves.

Hagar

Bond-007 wrote: »

I have come across employment contracts that state you must join a certain union as part of your job.

That clause is usually at the behest of the Union not the employer.
They don't want non-union labour being employed.
They also want all employees to be part of their union.

catch88

So Mary isn't in a position to say to her employers that she wants to opt out of paying 4.50 a week to the union?

partyguinness

catch88 wrote: »

So Mary isn't in a position to say to her employers that she wants to opt out of paying 4.50 a week to the union?

Basically..Yes...she agreed to pay this on the commemcement of her employment and it would be a part of her employment contract...it's unfair but she has a choice...i.e. leave

Victor

What it if is a minimum wage employment contract. Would the employer have to pay more to cover this unavoidable cost?

partyguinness

Victor wrote: »

What it if is a minimum wage employment contract. Would the employer have to pay more to cover this unavoidable cost?

No difference. Plus the employees is deemed to enjoy the "benefit" of the Union membership.

It is tax deductible though.

Victor

partyguinness wrote: »

It is tax deductible though.

Not much use for those on the minimum wage.