Does Europe need a common language?

devereaux17

But at the same time need to be different from USA?

I think we should create a new language in a beutiful 21st century social experiment using all the languages of the EU and making EU very united. It would be a gradual change over a long period(100 years) but I would like to see it.

before anyone bites my finger lmao, i speak irish fluent as well as english and a good bit of french as well although not fluent as such, i respect individual euro cultures but wouldn't it be a great thing?

the legacy could live on for future generations?


or would it just be better to intesify bi-lingualism so that europeans can speak in a variety of different languages(english/german/french as core languages) and the education system makes these languages compulsory.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Personally I love the diversity in Europe and wouldn't like to see a common Eurolanguage emerge.

devereaux17

ok so then learning languages is important. it needs to be of massive importance that irish kids from our perspective are given german and french lessons from native speakers from junion infants. french/german kids tv/music/books would all be part of the process. because we speak english already well thats just how it is, but in other countries like spain(french/german and english would have to be learned) in germany only english and french same with france(english and german)

in fact i would support irish being the first language of the country with english becoming a secondary language with no more or less importance than german and french. ireland should be a multi-lingual country by 2050. basically europe needs to be netherlands on a large scale.

oh and pope we all know europe is the best, and way better than usa and so much more diverse(not only country but every city is different) with better history but a common language would be great

K-9

devereaux17 wrote: »

ok so then learning languages is important. it needs to be of massive importance that irish kids from our perspective are given german and french lessons from native speakers from junion infants. french/german kids tv/music/books would all be part of the process. because we speak english already well thats just how it is, but in other countries like spain(french/german and english would have to be learned) in germany only english and french same with france(english and german)

in fact i would support irish being the first language of the country with english becoming a secondary language with no more or less importance than german and french. ireland should be a multi-lingual country by 2050. basically europe needs to be netherlands on a large scale.

oh and pope we all know europe is the best, and way better than usa and so much more diverse(not only country but every city is different) with better history but a common language would be great

It's an admirable aspiration. It isn't really an EU issue, more an Irish one.

I would support us being multilingual, but we'd also need to improve our standards on French, German etc, too.

There already is a common language, despite what the French think.

BlitzKrieg

Esperanto has been placed in many proposed political situations. The most popular of these is the Europe – Democracy – Esperanto, which aims to establish Esperanto as the official language of the European Union.

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto


Surprised no one mentioned it.

rugbyman

common language, great idea
time scale, at least 100 years(as said above)
likely ,no
objectors, virtually every Nationalist in each country
benefits , billions
regards,Rugbyman

devereaux17

ESPERANTO IS THE PERFECT IDEA, IT MIGHT EVEN TAKE LESS THAN 100 YEARS IF IT WAS AN EU WIDE DIRECTIVE THING. it would be incredible.

but yeah too many stupid nationalists would get in the way, although least in ireland we already don't speak the 'native' language anyway so the same arguments couldn't be made here....unless ur a west brit

dresden8

Never should have gotten rid of latin.

And we could wear togas too!

poisonated

ha I like your thinking...every day could be a toga day!

I agree though.We have a horrible way of learning languages.I mean I learnt Irish for about 12 years and I struggle to string a sentance together.That could be that I dont really like the language.On the other hand I speak french pretty well and I have only learnt that for a few years.Not to stereotype here but...the French are very patriotic.I really respect that about them.They wouldn't stand to have a language that was not French.

Daftendirekt

Personally, one of the things I love about the EU is its richness in linguistic and cultural diversity. I'd hate to see that go, despite the obvious benefits.

However, I'd be all in favour of a common second language, which all EU citizens are taught in school. You'd get the best of both worlds, and it'd be much more useful than learning Irish over here.

I'd imagine this would be incredibly difficult to implement. Maybe an increased emphasis on, and choice of, European languages in schools would be a more realistic alternative.

devereaux17

well it would be a long process but if the commitment was there then the rewards would be seen. who would have thought in brazil and usa, the nation of immigrants that with people from every part of the globe they would each find a common language.

i don't think it would be hard to implement at all as an offical second language, think about it why else do people learn a language? to become more flexible, able to communicate etc.

yes the initial stages would be tough, but over time i could see it being wonderful.

i am going to start an Esperanto for Europe movement.

turgon

Yes! Lets call it ... erm .... um ... OH - I got it - NEWS-SPEAK!!!:D

Daftendirekt

Was thinking more along the lines of German or Spanish or something, but what the hey

Stokes

How do we benefit from a new common language by the way?

devereaux17

more opportunities, even the chance to develop a proper european film industry, tv industry in the distant future. europe can then be back to where it belongs.

culture evolves, i think its time for a true European Union.

and we(i asumme you mean europeans who live now) wouldn't benefit but our ancestors would.

Stokes

So we should more or less abandon centuries of developed diverse languages so we won't need subtitles in 100 years?

devereaux17

Yes, and the film industry was just one example, its deeper than that.

Blisterman

Surely if we were going to switch to a common language, it should be english, seeing as most people in Europe can already speak it as a first or second language.

Stokes

So deep that the only example you used was highly superficial?

nayorleck114

Hi, I speak English, Spanish, Italian and Polish, and have good French and German.

I love the diversity. I always wished I had learned Irish, (my biggest regret). The reality is that most working europeans know English. Its not official but its the business language of europe. But we SHOULD NOT HAVE it as the official language. I love the fact we have diversity, we should protect this.

I make sure my kids know atleast 3 languages, (aswell as Irish, I have my 8 yearold in private irish lessons once a week) Its very important we preserve all european languages, their identities and diversities. I wish my parents had made me love Irish.

So NO we don't need an offical european language.

nayorleck114

devereaux17 wrote: »

I think we should create a new language in a beutiful 21st century social experiment using all the languages of the EU and making EU very united. It would be a gradual change over a long period(100 years) but I would like to see it.

Did you ever hear of esperanto!! a language to foster harmony between people from different countries. (it didn't work) but good idea in Principle.

Aard

I've given thought to this before. Here is what I can recall now, as well as some comments on what has been mentioned.

1) Esperanto: For the love of god, I hope this doesn't happen. It is a poorly thought-out language (I know quite a lot about conlanging :$ ). Its orthography alone would require millions being spent on redesigning keyboards across the EU. It is also a very ugly language - a bastardisation of several other languages that is ultimately less than the sum of its parts. Also, nobody would learn it - there's no incentive. Let's put that idea to rest now; it was nice to consider it for a while though.

2) English: perfect. Already one of the most spoken languages in the world, English is vital if the EU is to be a player on the world stage. It is also the most spoken second language in the EU.

3) Official languages of the EU: I think that the current setup of having 23 official languages is highly redundant. My proposal would be to have THREE official languages: English, German and French (and possibly Spanish). My reasoning for these is that they are the most spoken languages in the EU, the most spoken as 2nd languages, and the most spoken EU languages worldwide. Every MEP / Commissioner would have to use one of these languages. If other countries want to have documents printed in their own languages, they'll have to pay for it themselves. This will cut out a lot of translators and interpreters who work directly for the EU. There may also be requirements on students to learn one of these languages throughout their entire schooling, so as to achieve fluency in an official language.

Anyway, this was just an idea. Feel free to lambaste it

nayorleck114

Aard wrote: »

I've given thought to this before. Here is what I can recall now, as well as some comments on what has been mentioned.

1) Esperanto: For the love of god, I hope this doesn't happen. It is a poorly thought-out language (I know quite a lot about conlanging :$ ). Its orthography alone would require millions being spent on redesigning keyboards across the EU. It is also a very ugly language - a bastardisation of several other languages that is ultimately less than the sum of its parts. Also, nobody would learn it - there's no incentive. Let's put that idea to rest now; it was nice to consider it for a while though.

2) English: perfect. Already one of the most spoken languages in the world, English is vital if the EU is to be a player on the world stage. It is also the most spoken second language in the EU.

3) Official languages of the EU: I think that the current setup of having 23 official languages is highly redundant. My proposal would be to have THREE official languages: English, German and French (and possibly Spanish). My reasoning for these is that they are the most spoken languages in the EU, the most spoken as 2nd languages, and the most spoken EU languages worldwide. Every MEP / Commissioner would have to use one of these languages. If other countries want to have documents printed in their own languages, they'll have to pay for it themselves. This will cut out a lot of translators and interpreters who work directly for the EU. There may also be requirements on students to learn one of these languages throughout their entire schooling, so as to achieve fluency in an official language.

Anyway, this was just an idea. Feel free to lambaste it

You say possibly Spanish? Acutally Spanish is one of the most spoken in the world, more than Germany or French. Its Essential that Europe protect and foster every language. (Irish Included) , The reality most working people in Europe know English, but it should not be the official language. When I bring my family to Hungary or Slovakia I always make sure we know some phrases and have some local knowledge, I hate the English(british) attitude that everyone should understand them. In France I always try to use French, usually the french will see I made an effort and they will reply in English.

Mario007

nayorleck114 wrote: »

You say possibly Spanish? Acutally Spanish is one of the most spoken in the world, more than Germany or French. Its Essential that Europe protect and foster every language. (Irish Included) , The reality most working people in Europe know English, but it should not be the official language. When I bring my family to Hungary or Slovakia I always make sure we know some phrases and have some local knowledge, I hate the English(british) attitude that everyone should understand them. In France I always try to use French, usually the french will see I made an effort and they will reply in English.

you go to slovakia! wow! cool! i come from slovakia so i would like to say thanks for going there:D

with regards to the languages...i think a second language in europe that would be totally new is something that should be done, because as it is now people just speak english and that is a bit unfair onto the other countries and their languages. so something like esperanto learned by kids as a second language might be nice, while still keeping the original languages

nayorleck114

Mario007 wrote: »

so something like esperanto learned by kids as a second language might be nice, while still keeping the original languages

I like the idea, but we should use English as the Second language in Europe (it already is the case) Its already the 2nd language in most of Latin American and Asia. But I stress we need to maintain every European lanugage and the Diversity in Europe. I have lived in some EU countries (France, Germany, Poland, Romania, Poland, Italy, Spain, Slovakia, Czech, Ireland, England) and each countries heritage is unique and amazing. How many people have seem the amazing orthodox churches of Iasi in romania? We can't rollup europe to some common denominator, we shoud be open to Diversity.

Aard

nayorleck114 wrote: »

You say possibly Spanish? Acutally Spanish is one of the most spoken in the world, more than Germany or French. Its Essential that Europe protect and foster every language. (Irish Included) , The reality most working people in Europe know English, but it should not be the official language. When I bring my family to Hungary or Slovakia I always make sure we know some phrases and have some local knowledge, I hate the English(british) attitude that everyone should understand them. In France I always try to use French, usually the french will see I made an effort and they will reply in English.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all for protecting minority languages. I speak Irish, English and some French. I've lived in France too. Hell, when I went to Norway, I even learnt some Norwegian .

I'm not saying that we should focus on 4 languages to the detriment of others; rather, have 4 languages for the EU institutions in order to cut down on interpreting costs. The money saved might be used to fund minority-language institutions (like Foinse for example) so that they can be kept alive and kicking.

nayorleck114

Aard wrote: »

The money saved might be used to fund minority-language institutions (like Foinse for example) so that they can be kept alive and kicking.

I know that Irish is not spoken as widely as we should, But its an offical language of EU and EU employs Irish Speakers to translate documents to Irish. If we make only 4 languages offical we would cut out a lot of this employment. You could say we don't need Irish documents from EU commision, Everyone in Ireland speaks English. But then you start on the road to degrading the value of each language. I say keep the interpreting, this fosters people to learn the language and provides employment. Irish is important for youth here, once you can speak Irish you can learn a 3rd language a lot easier.

Mario007

nayorleck114 wrote: »

I like the idea, but we should use English as the Second language in Europe (it already is the case) Its already the 2nd language in most of Latin American and Asia. But I stress we need to maintain every European lanugage and the Diversity in Europe. I have lived in some EU countries (France, Germany, Poland, Romania, Poland, Italy, Spain, Slovakia, Czech, Ireland, England) and each countries heritage is unique and amazing. How many people have seem the amazing orthodox churches of Iasi in romania? We can't rollup europe to some common denominator, we shoud be open to Diversity.

once again its pretty damn cool you've lived in slovakia and czech republic(up until today i didnt know many irish people even knew about them).

i wouldn't like the idea of english being the second language in europe, though. simply because german is actively spoken by more people(i think).

i agree about the heritage bit...having lived in 3 countries i must say each amazes and repulses in its own way and thats good! thats why we have EU and not United States of Europe. I love the european diversity and the way we can make it work together.

nayorleck114 wrote: »

I know that Irish is not spoken as widely as we should, But its an offical language of EU and EU employs Irish Speakers to translate documents to Irish. If we make only 4 languages offical we would cut out a lot of this employment. You could say we don't need Irish documents from EU commision, Everyone in Ireland speaks English. But then you start on the road to degrading the value of each language. I say keep the interpreting, this fosters people to learn the language and provides employment. Irish is important for youth here, once you can speak Irish you can learn a 3rd language a lot easier.

officially 1 million people actively speak irish which i think is very good. i also intend to start learning irish this summer, simply because i've been living in ireland for too long not to feel i need to know irish:D

Aard

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Irish is important for youth here, once you can speak Irish you can learn a 3rd language a lot easier.

I agree with you entirely. The only thing is that much of the Irish youth can't speak Irish, unfortunately. What about the idea of making all primary schools into Gaelscoileanna? This would raise the standard of Irish, and also the incentive to learn it. (I'm going a bit off-topic here though...)

nayorleck114

Aard wrote: »

I agree with you entirely. The only thing is that much of the Irish youth can't speak Irish, unfortunately. What about the idea of making all primary schools into Gaelscoileanna? This would raise the standard of Irish, and also the incentive to learn it. (I'm going a bit off-topic here though...)

In Ireland we should speak Irish. My 3 year old girl speaks perfect Polish. She speaks it because her grandmother only speaks Polish. The only way to learn irish is to make it available (NOT FORCED), and to make it absorbed easily. My Daugther never complains she has to speak polish, its natural to her. We need to make irish natural to us Irish (me included)

conchubhar1

this has been tried, and failed miserably, several several times.

no - in this day and age of the internet/technology and information we have no problem understanding each other

all artificial languages have failed and will fail

Rb

Irish is taught extremely poorly in this country, which is bizarre considering French is taught to quite a high standard in general. If Irish were taught as a language, not in the current form of "learn these sentences off and be able to write them out in full", then we might see a rise in people using it. That ad where the guy "speaks Irish" is a perfect example of "modern Irish", "cailin bainne" and the like, phrases we've merely learnt off because all it takes is for us to be able to re-write it.

OP: ease up on the bong.

Scofflaw

Rb wrote: »

OP: ease up on the bong.

The suggestion that a poster's words are the result of being in some way 'under the influence' is distinctly pejorative, as well as being a form of ad hominem - you're dismissing the post by suggesting the poster is addled rather than addressing the content. Technically, of course, you're accusing them of a crime.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Rb

Scofflaw wrote: »

The suggestion that a poster's words are the result of being in some way 'under the influence' is distinctly pejorative, as well as being a form of ad hominem - you're dismissing the post by suggesting the poster is addled rather than addressing the content. Technically, of course, you're accusing them of a crime.

moderately,
Scofflaw

I did get the pm Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Rb wrote: »

I did get the pm Scofflaw

There's no reason for others not to learn from your experiences...we have a lot of new posters these days.

moderately,
Scofflaw

conchubhar1

which is a good thing - increase in interest in politics is always good

rb - update your views please. irish marks have been up to 40% for oral and 15% for aural