Broadband option - rural area

djt0607

Hi,

I am living in a very rural area (i wont say where), and unfortunately dsl broadband is not available. So, I am wondering what the other alternatives are? and the average costs of these? I may also mention that there is no cable (ntl etc) in my area, so cable broadband is out. I do have sky, but unfortunately they dont offer broadband to ROI customers as yet.

I am considering three's (3's) usb broadband pen which, according to their website, has coverage in my area (i have heard from a few people that 3 has very good coverage in my area). However, there are three people in my home that use broadband and this option is rather inconvenient and as far as i know only one person can use it at a time.

Is it possible to insert this pen into a wireless router so that multiple users can surf the internet simultaneously?


Thanks

D.

jor el

You need a 3G router.

Be wary of Three's coverage maps, they tend to embellish it a little. Also, look at this.

djt0607

thanks jor el for ur reply. I read that thread that your gave me the link to and to be honest im having second thoughts about getting a 3(three) usb broadband pen as the comments on that thread dont paint a pretty picture of 3's service at all.

Im kind of lost as to what to do. I cant get satellite broadband, cable broadband or normal telephone adsl broadband. Could you suggest another type of broadband you think would be good?

cowboy1981

djt0607 wrote: »

thanks jor el for ur reply. I read that thread that your gave me the link to and to be honest im having second thoughts about getting a 3(three) usb broadband pen as the comments on that thread dont paint a pretty picture of 3's service at all.

Im kind of lost as to what to do. I cant get satellite broadband, cable broadband or normal telephone adsl broadband. Could you suggest another type of broadband you think would be good?

If you can get Sky TV, you can see the Astra satellite, and probably others. You should be able to get satellite Broadband. Sky don't do it but there are lots of other companies that do. It's expensive and poor compared to DSL, but way better than 3. Are you in an NBS area? You can check on this site,

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Communications+Development/National+Broadband+Scheme.htm

If you are, and 3 are unable to meet the minimum specification required for NBS, then they are obliged to give you a subsidised satellite service for the same price as mobile. There is no evidence to date of a single person whose performance on 3 has met the NBS specification, so no matter how good your coverage is, you should be able to argue that you require satellite. Just keep arguing and complaining to the DCENR, Small Claims Court etc. Eventually you might be able to force them to give you subsidised satellite. If necessary, install Pilkington glazing in the room where you require Broadband - 3 definitely won't work behind this.

watty

Except the Satellite subsidized under NBS doesn't exist

drunkmonkey

djt0607 wrote: »

thanks jor el for ur reply. I read that thread that your gave me the link to and to be honest im having second thoughts about getting a 3(three) usb broadband pen as the comments on that thread dont paint a pretty picture of 3's service at all.

Im kind of lost as to what to do.

there's over 120,000 3 broadband users and growing, the threads posted for you to look at are only a tiny snapshot and not everyone has the same experience. Your in a rural area so you should not have the same contention problems as people in more populated areas.

If some people in your area have told you the service is good i'd nearly run with the 3 option, you've a no risk 14 day money back gurantee if your not happy, some rural areas networks are underutilised so you could end up with a very good connection if your not sharing it with too many people.

watty

You only need 10 solid users on your sector to have serious contention problems.

It can be speedy enough, but NEVER good latency. Cap poor and excess horribly expensive. In 2 to 4 months time even if you had good speed today you could have permenant dialup speeds.

drunkmonkey is virtually the only person on boards with anything good to say about 3. Perhaps there is a vested interest. I have no vested interest other than promoting broadband.

Promoting 3G is destroying Broadband.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055619459

jor el

drunkmonkey wrote: »

you've a no risk 14 day money back gurantee if your not happy,

A 14 day money back guarantee is useless if it stops working in 2 months time. You'll be stuck in a 12 month contract, with little or no hope of getting out without paying.

When Three first came into the Irish market, they were heralded as the great hope for those who couldn't get broadband. New customers were delighted with how great it was, and there were no problems. Roll on 6 months though, and that's where the M-M-Mega thread started. It's been pretty much downhill from there.

As NBS areas are only going live now, there's going to be few customers in any cell sector, and they'll get good performance. As the number of customers increases, the contention is going to kill them.

The inherent latency is something they'll never get over, so it's hard to see how they can guarantee 120ms.

Check out the last broadband providers poll, the number of people unhappy with Three are 10 times the number who are happy. The number of people unhappy with Three is larger than for any other provider. It says a lot about Three. No one should be happy that they were awarded the NBS.

Cabaal

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If some people in your area have told you the service is good i'd nearly run with the 3 option, you've a no risk 14 day money back gurantee if your not happy, some rural areas networks are underutilised so you could end up with a very good connection if your not sharing it with too many people.

Which is the big problem with Three, Three have in the past oversold there product and not upgraded their network.

Until things change nobody should be recommending customers go to them as they'll likely end up in contracts which they'll have to pay a buyout fee to get out of.

drunkmonkey, the fact that you are actually saying Three have Broadband users is extremely misleading and inaccurate and does not help anyone, you and I know Three have 0 Broadband users as Midband is NOT Broadband.

drunkmonkey given you constant promotion of Three can you tell me if you are employed by Three or one of its contractors by any chance?

drunkmonkey

I've no vested intrest in any particular operator, the op asked for some feedback, he said he's in a rural area and his neighbours have said the service is good, everyone else pointed op to complaint thread by people not even using the service and some of the ones constantly complaining have there own agenda, some have or had genuine problems but some are utter rubbish which mods should be pulling them up on not egging them on, name x in the city and foggy lad as 2 complete messers...

If the 3 service is good in op's area which is rural and he dosen't have many other options it's worth a look, there's nothing wrong with me saying that i'm prefectly entitled to give my opinion, so stop with the name calling and give people straight answers that aren't misleading.

OP is in an underpopulated area with good 3G coverage, it may be the right option for him. Which everbody else has failed to mention.

If the service stops working they will relese you from contract if you've followed up the issues with them, if your without service they will compensate you.

watty

@drunkmonkey

I'm sorry but based on your posts regarding 3 and 3G ( and vs 02/Meteor/Vodafone) and your overly positive pushing of 3 on any possibly related topic that really really stretches the bounds of credulity. Even your posts of speedtests showing 3G at its best (almost no other users in sector) the latency is miserable.

The only agenda is that 3G/W-CDMA is NOT broadband. It can only possibly even give decent speed with one or two users in a sector.

Satellite even can work out better than 3G. When 3G latency gets to 250ms, a web page via satellite (790ms) will load quicker as 3G does not have the ARP-DNS-TCP/IP forwarding/caching tricks of Satellite. A decent satellite package will never slow to the dialup speeds or refuse connection like Mobile does.

If you really need Broadband rather than dialup the Cap on Mobile will be a killer.

@drunkmonkey
You are the only poster related to 3G that is consistently misleading people.

It's extremely difficult if not impossible to get out of contract a few months later if service deteriorates. It's verging on the dishonest to claim otherwise. Because unlike real broadband, regular Mobile* does not have any defined SLA or QOS at all. Phone calls have priority. The minimum package speed is disconnect.

If people successfully promote 3G we will end up with no broadband outside of UPC cable areas.

(* I can only presume that in the long term 3 Ireland is not concerned about the NBS SLA, as it's impossible to meet with a Mobile service)

drunkmonkey

Watty i'd harldy call it promoting 3, i'm trying to help someone with a problem (which I have plenty of experience with) I fail to see what you've contributed to help the poster only to further your campaign which as a matter of fact I don't completly disagree with but you seem to think I do just becuase I know a bit about 3 amongst others.

watty

The OP is was looking for Broadband.

You have suggested 3, and made amazing claims about how easy it is to get out of contract.

Everyone else is warning about the pitfalls of Mobile. Which is not, and 3G/HSPA never will be Broadband.

Cabaal

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I've no vested intrest in any particular operator....

You mention in another thread that a certain modem is good based on customer feedback, so either you work for a company making them or perhaps a store selling "Midband" products such as 3G or CPW perhaps?

Either way if you have no vested interest then why big up and promote Three over O2, Vodafone and Meteor and why give factually incorrect information about Three's services which is misleading to people that might sign up to this mobile access service.

If the service stops working they will relese you from contract if you've followed up the issues with them, if your without service they will compensate you.

This is based on what exactly?

I know for a fact that Three won't allow a user to easily cancel a service with them unless they REALLY kick up we've seen numerous people confirm this.

Infact recently I even helped out a colleague of mine cancel his contract and get invalid charges written off that three had passed on to debt collectors, it took a number of phone calls to Three's PR contacts before they did this which is of great concern.

So what exactly are you basing your claim that Three will release end users from contracts if services don't work, because I see nothing to back this up.

drunkmonkey

Cabaal wrote: »

You mention in another thread that a certain modem is good based on customer feedback, so either you work for a company making them or perhaps a store selling "Midband" products such as 3G or CPW perhaps?

Either way if you have no vested interest then why big up and promote Three over O2, Vodafone and Meteor and why give factually incorrect information about Three's services which is misleading to people that might sign up to this mobile access service.


This is based on what exactly?

I know for a fact that Three won't allow a user to easily cancel a service with them unless they REALLY kick up we've seen numerous people confirm this.

Infact recently I even helped out a colleague of mine cancel his contract and get invalid charges written off that three had passed on to debt collectors, it took a number of phone calls to Three's PR contacts before they did this which is of great concern.

So what exactly are you basing your claim that Three will release end users from contracts if services don't work, because I see nothing to back this up.

Everbody works for somebody, I'm not promoting 3 broadband over o2, Eircom, Digiweb etc, I'm not promoting 3 broadband at all. Did any of ye actually listen to what the poster said? I did!

Your correct three will not release you unless you really kick up, it's not easy but they will. I've advised people in bother to contact support and follow the issue through until they have a satisfactory outcome. I've never advised anything different.

I've seen other posters recommend they just cancel there direct debit, not pay them etc. This will only cause further problems, and i'm a shill, vested interest, defending 3 etc for telling people to follow through the complaint properly? Serioulsy?

If you had to step in for your mate as it was with the debt collection agency it's becuase he refused to pay his bill, that's not the right way to go about things and it's a complete pain for all involved. That's what i'm trying to avoid people gettng into, but if I advise them any different i'm seen as "promoting 3 broadband", in all fairness that's not my intent. I'm trying to keep them out of the situation your friend ended up in.

Cabaal

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Everbody works for somebody, I'm not promoting 3 broadband over o2, Eircom, Digiweb etc, I'm not promoting 3 broadband at all. Did any of ye actually listen to what the poster said? I did!

Your answering a question in respect of Three in this thread fair enough, but you have posted in many other threads with inaccurate and misleading information in respect of the "benefits" of Midband when we know such speeds just don't happen for the vast majority of users.

In itself calling Three's product Broadband in itself is misleading.

Your correct three will not release you unless you really kick up, it's not easy but they will.

Yet your posts make it sound easy when we all know its not

If you had to step in for your mate as it was with the debt collection agency it's becuase he refused to pay his bill, that's not the right way to go about things and it's a complete pain for all involved.........<SNIP>.... I'm trying to keep them out of the situation your friend ended up in.

Your assuming stuff here
My colleague canceled his account which Three confirmed so he then canceled any payments but later they continued to charge him and denied all knowledge of it ever being canceled.

They then passed it to debt collectors and refused to cancel the account and write off debts they also stated he was in contract, no matter who he spoke to in Three (agents/supervisors) they would not budge which is when I got involved.

So my colleague did everything by the book but Three still didn't play ball.

Three have a complaints process?, do they follow this? Because if they do its something thats very new

jor el

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I've seen other posters recommend they just cancel there direct debit, not pay them etc. This will only cause further problems, and i'm a shill, vested interest, defending 3 etc for telling people to follow through the complaint properly? Serioulsy?

No, the problem is you've claimed it's easy to get out of a contract if they are not providing the service you pay for, and that they will compensate you for lack of service. I've never seen any evidence of this, in fact, it's the exact opposite that we keep seeing here. People unable to get out of the contract, even after following the correct procedures, but Three still giving them the runaround, and certainly no compensation.

Telling people about Three's services is no problem, but any recommendation should come with a massive caveat. It applies to all of the 3G operators, but Three in particular have an extremely poor history, much worse than either of the other two main players (Meteor have yet to be seen and proven in any great respect).

You've made several posts which hint at, or imply, your connection to the sale and supply of 3G products, couple that with your seemingly one-man-struggle to support Three and it looks very suspicious.

drunkmonkey wrote:

some have or had genuine problems but some are utter rubbish which mods should be pulling them up on not egging them on, name x in the city and foggy lad as 2 complete messers...

If you have a problem with any particular post, then report it. I have had words with several posters in the Three Mega thread about their comments. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, so don't go bringing it up in other threads.

As for the OP, his original question was asked and answered. Other comments about the pitfalls of 3G are helping him to make an educated decision, warning of the limitations of the service, and what he can realistically expect to see is helping him.

john_buoy

Hi,

Firstly thank you to you all for taking the time to read the post(s) and replying.

I was unaware that mobile broadband is in fact not broadband, but "midband". I know this now. (You learn something new everyday)

While I am aware that in 99.999% of cases the ultimate/prefferred connection to the net is via a dsl one, I have to face reality and realise that I cannot connect this way as yet and am resigned to one of two connection choices: 1. 3 Mobile Midband (See...I am learning...I said midband not broadband)
2. Ice Broadband.

Ice broadband is twice the price of 3 and I dont know alot about it so thats why im looking at 3 first.

I am aware that 3 may not deliver a 1mb download rate, but even if if delivered a 0.5mb download rate, i would be happy as I only want it for email checking, general internet surfing.

Is there a good possibility it will deliver this speed?


I would also like to give my opinion on what action I would take should I sign a 12-month contract and 4 months or so into it, I am provided with a really crap "midband" service.... Firstly I would contact 3 customer service. I would give them a time period to fix the problem. If my problem is not solved after that, I would return the modem and all accessories in origonal packaging by registered mail and cancel all direct debits from 3 on my account. If 3 wish to take it further and sue for breach of contract so be it. I would doubt any court would convict me of breach of contract when they clearly are not providing me the service which I signed up for.

any thoughts on this?

drunkmonkey

Cabaal wrote: »

you have posted in many other threads with inaccurate and misleading information in respect of the "benefits" of Midband

jor el wrote: »

No, the problem is you've claimed it's easy to get out of a contract

@Cabaal, would you mind backing up that accusation?

@Joe_al, again would you mind linking to the where I said it's "easy" to get out of contract.

Also would someone mind linking to the defination of Midband outside of boards, I think somebody just made it up.

john_buoy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Also would someone mind linking to the defination of Midband outside of boards, I think somebody just made it up.

Ah..so maybe my statement "You learn something new everyday" was a little premature.

drunkmonkey

john_buoy wrote: »

I was unaware that mobile broadband is in fact not broadband, but "midband". I know this now.


Is there a good possibility it will deliver this speed?


I would return the modem and all accessories in origonal packaging by registered mail and cancel all direct debits from 3 on my account. If 3 wish to take it further and sue for breach of contract so be it.

any thoughts on this?

Midband is not Mobile Broadband, Mobile broadband is Mobile broadband, it's not "broadband" as most of us accept and is no subsitute for a good nailed up connection offered by the likes of Eircom. It's for out and about coverage, perfect for sales reps on the road etc, but not ideal for home use, but it does do the trick for some people, there's in the region of 300,000 mobile broadband users in the country at the moment.

Yes it's possible if your area does not suffer from contention issues, you might be ok if your friends have said it's good and you in a rural area with good coverage.

That's the complete wrong way to go about terminating a contract with any supplier.

watty

Mobile "internet", Mobile Data. Never going to be Broadband.

jor el

john_buoy wrote: »

Is there a good possibility it will deliver this speed?

There's a possibility, but no one can tell you how good that will be until you try it.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's the complete wrong way to go about terminating a contract with any supplier.

Contact the service provider, give them a chance to rectify the problem, if they can't, cancel payments, cancel service and return equipment. Seems like the right way to me.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

@Joe_al, again would you mind linking to the where I said it's "easy" to get out of contract.

You keep getting my name wrong. Are you really that petty and small, or just unimaginative? But to answer your question, you didn't use the word easy, but then I wasn't quoting you. You made it sound like a simple process when you wrongly claimed:

If the service stops working they will relese you from contract if you've followed up the issues with them, if your without service they will compensate you.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Also would someone mind linking to the defination of Midband outside of boards, I think somebody just made it up.

There isn't one, as you well know. This forum, and the term midband, were created to highlight the fact that mobile "broadband" is not broadband. If it were broadband, the OECD would count it in their statistics, but they don't.

Your trolling is becoming quite tedious.

john_buoy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's the complete wrong way to go about terminating a contract with any supplier.

How is it the wrong way to terminate a contract? - this is assuming three don't turn around and say "oh sure Mr.buoy no problem..lets cancel that contract for you... there you go.... would you like a flamin' moe with that?" What would you suggest?

drunkmonkey

jor el wrote: »

There's a possibility, but no one can tell you how good that will be until you try it.

Contact the service provider, give them a chance to rectify the problem, if they can't, cancel payments, cancel service and return equipment. Seems like the right way to me.



You keep getting my name wrong. Are you really that petty and small, or just unimaginative? But to answer your question, you didn't use the word easy, but then I wasn't quoting you. You made it sound like a simple process when you wrongly claimed:


There isn't one, as you well know. This forum, and the term midband, were created to highlight the fact that mobile "broadband" is not broadband. If it were broadband, the OECD would count it in their statistics, but they don't.

Your trolling is becoming quite tedious.

Finally, some one else said it, going to call you a shill, troll now and accuse you of promoting 3 broadband. (same thing your accusing me of)

Cancelling the payment or refusal to pay is in breach of your contract, that's when it gets messy, hammer them until they terminate the contract. Don't just cancel it off your own back without agreement.

Yes I know why the midband forum was created and I think it's a good idea not to confuse the types of broadband but they are all broadband by name, just different flavours. Some sweet, some sour.

Your assumption that i'm promoting 3 broadband is downright annoying because i'm doing nothing of the sort, only trying to help a few people with problems.
You couldn't quote me where I said it was easy to cancel, even though you said I said it, I'm not the troll in this thread so stop with the name calling.

john_buoy

For god sake DrunkMonkey. We all know that cancelling payment is "breaching" the contract, but the people in three would want to be right idiots to take someone to court for cancelling their payment because of lack of service. Lets put this into a dialogue for you:

[Imagine me and some "three" guy are in court]

Judge: I see Mr.buoy you have ceased payments to "three" despite the fact you have signed a contract with them.

Me: Yes your honour.

Judge: Why have you done this?

Me: Well I signed up to their service 3 months ago and now I have an absolutely terrible service from them. It usually takes me 4 days of waiting on google.com to load your honour and this just isnt acceptable. At the start I was getting download speeds of up to 1mb/s; now im only getting 1kb/s. I mean one day it took me 4 hours just to load google.

***Now the judge at this stage can either say 1 of 2 things:

1. Well Mr.buoy, you signed a 12 month contract, so im afraid your going to have to put up with 3's ****ty service for another 9 months and theres nothing you can do except go back home and stare at the google logo.

2. Or the judge can see sense (which i think he/she will) and rule that because of a lack of service the contract should not stand.


Now what do you think the Judge would do DrunkMonkey?

drunkmonkey

They would be right idiots if you had called tech support numerous times, troubleshooted and went through the motions and requested a cancellation after proven prolonged lack of service and they still failed to help. If you didn't do this i'd expect the judge to rule in their favour.

So make sure you've done your part if it ever did go that far, best advice is not to let it. Court would be a last option and should be avoided.

watty

But there is no minimum speed or qualtity of service in the contract. 3 haven't broken contract sadly. It's a mobile, not a fixed service.

watty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

@Cabaal, would you mind backing up that accusation?

@Joe_al, again would you mind linking to the where I said it's "easy" to get out of contract.

Also would someone mind linking to the defination of Midband outside of boards, I think somebody just made it up.

No, it's not made up.

Dialup and basic ISDN are officially Narrowband


Broadband is

1. Always On
2. Minimum High Speed ( 512k, 768k, 1Mbps or 2Mbps depending on Authority/ Country)
3. Low latency (< 80ms, typical is 10ms to 60ms)
4. Dedicated IP connection.

3G/HSDPA (based on W-CDMA Mobile phone system)

1. Not always on. It's a form of quick dialup, like ISDN is. It may not connect if the sector is full or the sector has shrunk (CDMA breathing).
2. Speed quoted is TOTAL peak for all users in a sector. It's not economic to build sectors for just one person. Total Cell throughput (according to Vendors) is 1Mbps to 2Mbps for a typically loaded sector. That is shared between users, so at an economic level of use the speed is under 150kbps. It can easily be 50kbps or simply not connect.
3. Latency is 80ms at best. Realistic latency is 120ms for a few users and rises to over 2000ms for a loaded sector.
4. Not a dedicated connection. Shared with phone traffic which has priority.

Ripwave is similar but without phone traffic. It's S-CDMA.
IPW is also a CDMA system

These are all classed as Midband as they are not Broadband and degrade to worse than Narrowband (Dialup/ISDN) when economically loaded.

Our own Government

Define broadband as a service that provides at least 512Kbs connectivity and set a target of the widespread availability of 5Mps connections by 2006 and with a further suggested target of 10Mps connections by 2008.

Also

The Joint Committee has concluded, for the Irish market, that speeds of anything less than 512kbs is not broadband but is in fact in a class known as ‘mid-band'. This would include such services as ISDN connections and 124 and 256kbs DSL connections. In this respect the Joint Committee's definition of broadband differs from that in use by other groups and significantly differs from the definition currently to be found in Section 8 of the Finance Bill 2004. The Joint Committee believes that all connections at speeds of less than 124kbs, currently the majority in the Irish economy, have to be regarded as narrowband connections.

http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chapter02.htm

@drunkmonkey we arn't slinging mud at you. We are not making this stuff up.
http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chairmans_Preface.htm
24th March 2004

drunkmonkey wrote: »

OP is in an underpopulated area with good 3G coverage, it may be the right option for him. Which everbody else has failed to mention.

If the service stops working they will relese you from contract if you've followed up the issues with them, if your without service they will compensate you.

Because it's not true. 3G/HSPA ALWAYS gets worse as very few more users added. It simply does not scale.

In practice if you have used it more than a month and because it's a Mobile Phone based service it takes a huge amount of hassle etc to get out of contract and sometimes they simply don't let you. You could have worse than ISDN speed. That is still a service. @drunkmonkey in many threads you have advised people to take the 14 day trial and given similar misleading advice about getting out of contract. Yet it could be a few months or more before the service becomes much slower or frequently disconnecting. Even then they do not need to release people from contract. It's very very difficult to get out of contract early.

I think you should at least have a tag in your sig saying you work in a phone shop, then people can decide how clear and unbiased your advice is.

drunkmonkey

watty wrote: »

But there is no minimum speed or qualtity of service in the contract. 3 haven't broken contract sadly. It's a mobile, not a fixed service.

1.2mbps for NBS, that shoud be comical, I presume they have to live up to it or be in big trouble

watty

Yes.. I have theory about that.

Unfortunately I have been told personally by Eamonn Ryan that the penalties are secret.


FCC: Broadband must have a MINIMUM speed of 768k http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-280909A2.doc

OECD http://www.oecd.org/document/46/0,3343,en_2649_34225_39575598_1_1_1_1,00.html
3G/ HSPDA @ 7.2Mbps is NOT a speed faster than 256kbps to users as with a reasonable number of users in sector the speed is about 200kbps and can easily be 50kbps.
3G Mobile is excluded anyway by OECD!

ii. Does not include
1. 3G mobile technologies
2. Wi-Fi
3. Exceptions: included in rare case that Wi-Fi/3G is the transport mechanism of a fixed-wireless provider (e.g. in rural UK, CZ)

godskitchen

The one thing that sickens me about this country is its lack of honesty.

Even when something is as clear as day incorrect, indefensible and unjustifiable, you will always manage to get someone touting "Ah sure lads, what do you mean, it is perfect, ye are the only ones with the problem".

Granted, an issue over Midband or Broadband is not the end of the world but the reaction here of drunkmonkey is sickening to me. Defending the indefensible in any situation is wrong and this country is full of it, as we have seen lately in more serious matters.

watty

However, unchecked it might be the end of Broadband

I'll think you'll find clickin on on an offending post DOES get noticed and logged. Best not to rant on thread too much.

Now look, I've done Back Seat Modding too! (I'm not a Moderator here). We could both get warnings

I predict you won't be annoyed for a few days anyway.