More negative publicity for Athletics Ireland...

limerickleader

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0709/1224250316887.html

Man, this makes for depressing reading on a Thursday morning...

TheRoadRunner

It sure does. I would love to know the real story behind all this. Both sides give very different versions. I don't know who is right or wrong but from what I've heard the sports council seem to be seriously interfering with the national athletics body. Maybe there is more to come out ?

ChickenTikka

Two other articles on this from last Sunday's Indo:-

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics-sacking-of--coghlan-pushes-ai-to-brink-1806583.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/why-put-up-with-this-useless-guff-1806582.html

And also the link to the Dail's committee's meeting with AAI which I had posted in the 'turmoil in AAI' thread but that thread was removed due to concerns regarding some of the comments:-

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/CommitteeMenu.aspx?Dail=30&Cid=TO
(scroll down to 24 Jun for minutes of meeting with AAI, 6 May for meeting with OCI, 8 Apr for meeting with ISC)

We should limit our postings on this to just sharing published info - otherwise we will lose the thread again.

thirtyfoot

ChickenTikka wrote: »

We should limit our postings on this to just sharing published info - otherwise we will lose the thread again.

Good point. I think if we are all mature we can keep this discussion up. The only thing that will be dodgy will be people coming on with the ‘inside track’ or news from their ‘sources’ or ‘contacts’. By and large these people are spoofers and bluffers and Walter Mittys and will be getting fed something by a certain side as they knew they can be used. I have heard conflicting versions of events from different people and they are all adamant what they have is correct. Many have vested interests, in fact we all have vested interests as its our sport, but if we can keep it mature and maybe geared towards how its affecting your sport and how we can change things as opposed to the politics and personalities I think it should be fine. Sometimes when people post things its hard not to react and I have found you can get sucked in as what they are saying is just plain wrong (in your opinion). If we keep the dodgy stuff out, there will be less reaction.

Let’s not stifle debate on this but anything dodgy will be rewarded with an infraction or a ban. Dodgy in this instance can be:

- unsubstantiated crap like I heard this or I heard that or I have it on good authority etc etc
- Personal abuse of the parties involved, calling them fools, idiots etc.

DangerMouse27

Its going to be tough not to say anything bad against the words of Ossie Kilkenny and Patsy McGonagle...assuming that what Mary Coughlan is saying is true and we have no right to say it is not.

Ossie Kilkenny calling her a cancer is pretty wrong.....

limerickleader

I agree, I think we need to keep this thread to strictly published information as opposed to expressing any opinions either way, at least until the matter has played out fully in the courts. It's sure to get plenty of coverage over the weekend/next couple of weeks/months. If we can keep all the links in one thread, it's easier for all of us who are AAI members to keep informed.

Peckham

My reaction to all this ongoing saga has been "Who gives a damn?" and that it all seems so pointless and possibly just a clash of personalities....

...however then I put it in context and consider that I'm someone who's an active athlete, am involved in club administration and sit on a county board. The fact that the initial reaction for someone like me is "Who gives a damn?" really says a lot about how distant the administrative organisation is from the majority of the members.

I wonder if the same was happening in FAI, IRFU or GAA, would the active members feel equally removed from it?

Fish'n'Chips

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVldP1KzIVw

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q_8Vj7i5f4

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zug921_35_Q

Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKaSuPmanE

Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqobHWT1KnY

Part 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JTSY2e3fZw

Part 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ2CGQ7nacY

Part 8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY5WW4k42kk

Condo131

Peckham wrote: »

........ I'm someone who's an active athlete, am involved in club administration and sit on a county board.

Ditto, however I'm no longer on our County Board - stood down for personal circumstances.

Peckham wrote: »

....My reaction to all this ongoing saga has been "Who gives a damn?" and that it all seems so pointless........

....The fact that the initial reaction for someone like me is "Who gives a damn?" really says a lot about how distant the administrative organisation is from the majority of the members.

I agree wholeheartedly. The entire set-up of the AAI needs to be completely overhauled. The AAI connection to grassroots is tenuous at best.

The list of basics that need to be addressed is endless, for example;

Fundamental things like competition rule publication does not, by and large, happen and, in any case, competition rules are regularly flouted both by officials and senior figures, on parochial type bases.

Registration cards for 2008, paid in January, came in Nov/Dec, some never came at all.

Apparently the AAI took over the operation of the Irish Runner last year, with a view to re-vamping. My understanding is that this has been put very much on the backburner due to "other pressing matters"

I have no idea what's fundamentally behind the current legal dispute - can only go on the superficial info in the media and on the grapevine - but, in the end it's probably the individual AAI member who's going to pick up the tab. In the meantime, our sport suffers at all levels.

Apologies if this is a bit of a rant, but I'm simply fed up to the teeth with the AAI.

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by Fish'N'Chips
Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKaSuPmanE

Can anybody decipher what the President is saying here?

shels4ever

It's very very sad to be honest, I can see a lot more coming from all of this. Can't belive i just wacthed all of this, simple questions not answered and this looks really bad.

ChickenTikka

Peckham wrote: »

My reaction to all this ongoing saga has been "Who gives a damn?" and that it all seems so pointless and possibly just a clash of personalities....

Sadly we have to give a damn, as its using up funds that should be used elsewhere and consuming time from people who should be spending it elsewhere on athletics initiatives. I have the following concerns:-
- our leadership’s time is consumed by this and other areas needing attention get ignored
- funding of squads for international events gets restricted or the numbers selected get cut because of huge uncertainty about finances (I suspect this is already happening)
- Euro cross country becomes a mess because of lack of resources – a huge opportunity to promote the sport wasted
- RDOs who are doing a very good job, have too much uncertainty about their future and move on elsewhere
- the association goes bankrupt which has to be catastrophic for competitions at all levels - elite and non-elite, international and National, etc.

RJM22

I feel like saying "bloody bereaucracy - get rid of them all please! Stop wasting my tax money and let me run! Someone press the reset button" but then that would just be silly...I think?

jeffontour

Jeez, can I have that hour back please. I'm none the wiser after watching that car crash but I do think Mr. Hennessy has very impressive eyebrows!

On a more serious note it's very sad to see three people who should be focused on developing athletics put through the wringer like that, regardless of whether the questioning was merited. The sooner the better it's sorted and they're all back focused on their jobs the better.

Fish'n'Chips

From today's Indo:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics-coghlan-in-court-fight-1815703.html

myflipflops

I'm not going to say anything about this situation specifically becuase i don't know the ins and outs of it in detail and as such should reserve comment. I have my opinions about the people involved but they are just that - my opinions. As such they are more for the pub than a public forum where i use my own name.

I will say this though:

Irish Athletics is in the middle of it's most succesful season of the modern era. Sonia's succes in the 90's and early part of this century (backed up by a couple of other people like Mark Carroll) masked the lack of quality generally within the sport in this country and as such, this year of outstanding success across numerous disciplines is comfortably our best.

All this has happened while the Association that is supposed to be running the sport is in complete chaos. It is dragging itself through the courts. When the AAI isn't crippled by in fighting, it is fighting with the Sports Council or the Olympic Council or any other bloody council they can find!! Whose is to blame is another issue, the indisputable fact is that it is happening.

What should be astounding me is that we are experiencing this success at the same time as the Association is experiencing melt down. It's not even remotely surprising though. It is just clear proof that the success is a direct consequence of the work done on the ground by coaches, athletes, club committees and county boards.

The success of David Gillick or Paul Hession or Ciara Mageean or Eileen O'Keefe or Mary Cullen or Derval O'Rourke (i could go on) is in no way down to the AAI or the Sports Council. It's down to the athletes themselves and their coaches, parents, clubs etc etc.

It really makes me wonder what Ireland could be on a European level if the structures at the top of the sport were put in place properly. As it stands we have as Association who seem to spend most of their time answering question about themselves and very little time actually running athletics in this country.

Maybe they should clear the decks and let another generation (I don't mean a yonger age generation!!) try and run the sport properly.


/End Rant

thirtyfoot

pwhite587 wrote: »

I'm not going to say anything about this situation specifically becuase i don't know the ins and outs of it in detail and as such should reserve comment. I have my opinions about the people involved but they are just that - my opinions. As such they are more for the pub than a public forum where i use my own name.

I will say this though:

Irish Athletics is in the middle of it's most succesful season of the modern era. Sonia's succes in the 90's and early part of this centry (backed up by a couple of other people like Mark Carroll) masked the lack of quality generally within the sport in this country and as such, this year of outstanding success across numerous disciplines is comfortably our best.

All this has happened while the Association that is supposed to be running the sport is in complete chaos. It is dragging itself through the courts. When the AAI isn't crippled by in fighting, it is fighting with the Sports Council or the Olympic Council or any other bloody council they can find!! Whose is to blame is another issue, the indisputable fact is that it is happening.

What should be astounding me is that we are experiencing this success at the same time as the Association is experiencing melt down. It's not even remotely surprising though. It is just clear proof that the success is a direct consequence of the work done on the ground by coaches, athletes, club committees and county boards.

The success of David Gillick or Paul Hession or Ciara Mageean or Eileen O'Keefe or Mary Cullen or Derval O'Rourke (i could go on) is in no way down to the AAI or the Sports Council. It's down to the athletes themselves and their coaches, parents, clubs etc etc.

It really makes me wonder what Ireland could be on a European level if the structures at the top of the sport were put in place properly. As it stands we have as Association who seem to spend most of their time answering question about themselves and very little time actually running athletics in this country.

Maybe they should clear the decks and let another generation (I don't mean a yonger age generation!!) try and run the sport properly.


/End Rant

Great post and its actually given me a lot of hope:cool:

Racing Flat

A problem though is that like all sports, it's a results based business. Hence no matter what is thrown at them the board can say 'this is the best year ever' and claim credit for that.

Fish'n'Chips

I agree with that too - as I think I've said before the athletes who 'have what it takes' will generally achieve success without the help of AAI or the Sports Council...at the same time those organisations really like to take credit when in most cases they have very little or nothing to do with the success.

But the real shame is what could be achieved if there was a proper system in place...

ecoli

FishnChips wrote: »

I agree with that too - as I think I've said before the athletes who 'have what it takes' will generally achieve success without the help of AAI or the Sports Council...at the same time those organisations really like to take credit when in most cases they have very little or nothing to do with the success.

But the real shame is what could be achieved if there was a proper system in place...

this true but dunno does anyone remember a certain.... Jim Hogan?

limerickleader

Two more article links. One from the Sindo, the other from today's Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0714/1224250637797.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/costly-athletics-power-struggle--looks-destined-to-run-and-run-1818124.html

thirtyfoot

ecoli wrote: »

this true but dunno does anyone remember a certain.... Jim Hogan?

Jim Hogan ran in the '60's, not sure he is relevant to any situation now apart from re-enforcing Fish N Chips thought that the best will survive without support regardless.

ChickenTikka

Anybody understand current legal status of the association vs a club. Just curious from a financial perspective. The association is now a limited company since last year I think. Clubs are affiliated to the association. Does that mean a club would have any liability for debts incurred by the association? I assume not, but I don't understand the legal setup.

RoyMcC

ChickenTikka wrote: »

Anybody understand current legal status of the association vs a club. Just curious from a financial perspective. The association is now a limited company since last year I think. Clubs are affiliated to the association. Does that mean a club would have any liability for debts incurred by the association? I assume not, but I don't understand the legal setup.

And furthermore, would club members have joint and several liability for a club's debts if it were to become insolvent :eek: Don't know the answers - is there a lawyer in the house?

ecoli

Tingle wrote: »

Jim Hogan ran in the '60's, not sure he is relevant to any situation now apart from re-enforcing Fish N Chips thought that the best will survive without support regardless.

yeah but his arguments with the association for the lack of support ( paying for him to go to the world cross) according to him contributed his decision to represent GB and win gold in European Marathon in 1966

“I just couldn’t afford it and I started running for England and Great Britain. I don’t think it caused a huge reaction in Ireland but then again, I wasn’t living there anymore. The set-up was much better. I’d have loved to win a medal for Ireland but I felt I had been treated badly. I broke a world record that year.”

http://www.limerickindependent.com/limerick-profile/limerick-profile/jim-hogan-%11-champion-long-distance-runner/

As such through politics Ireland lost a gold medal in the Euro Championships

limerickleader

AFAIK AAI has incorporated (as of last EGM) as a company limited by guarantee. Many voluntary bodies and charitable organisations incorporate in this manner as it allows the "company" to be set up without a share capital i.e. the members don't have to put money in upfront. In fact, in the majority of cases, the most the members would ever have to stump up would be €1.00 and only in the event of an insolvency. I'm not sure who the members of the AAI are (minimum of 7, maximum of 50).

From a company law point of view, the "AAI" company is completely separate from its members and any affiliated clubs. It has its own legal personality and can hold property/assets in its own name, and *ahem* employ people in its own name and defend legal proceedings in its own name.

If the "AAI" company were to fail and a liquidator appointed, the creditors of "AAI" company would have no claim against the assets of any club but instead would be restricted to receiving a percentage of their debts by way of the liquidation of the assets of the "AAI" company.

meathcountysec

"AFAIK AAI has incorporated (as of last EGM) as a company limited by guarantee."

This was approved at the EGM but I'm not sure that the actual incorporation process was completed subsequently.

limerickleader

Thanks for the update...is there any reason for this?

Why go to the effort of a) asking one of the largest corporate law firms in the country to draft the relevant documents (no doubt incurring significant legal fees) and b) holding an EGM to approve the incorporation, if the project was just going to get shelved?

meathcountysec

As far as I remember this whole unfortunate incident was just surfacing at the time of the EGM. Eye taken off the ball!

footing

The scary thing is that no-one in their right minds would take up any job in Irish athletics now.

jeffontour

meathcountysec wrote: »

"AFAIK AAI has incorporated (as of last EGM) as a company limited by guarantee."

Had a look and it appears there is no related registered company. Looks like the idea has been shelved.

ecoli

footing wrote: »

The scary thing is that no-one in their right minds would take up any job in Irish athletics now.

Actually i feel that who ever they could attract at times like this will really be there for the good of the sport and take the job with the intention of fixing these problems

Irishathlete_1

I agree with ecoli. I think this is a time for an opportunistic professional to come in and restructure the AAI and start again. That is what is needed and the time is now. Whether that actually happens or not is beyond me.

helpisontheway

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

I agree with ecoli. I think this is a time for an opportunistic professional to come in and restructure the AAI and start again. That is what is needed and the time is now. Whether that actually happens or not is beyond me.

Is that not what Mary Coughlan was trying to do and look how far she got!:(

Hard Worker

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

I agree with ecoli. I think this is a time for an opportunistic professional to come in and restructure the AAI and start again. That is what is needed and the time is now. Whether that actually happens or not is beyond me.

Only the members can change the structure. The CEO can have some great ideas, can be ambitious, honest, hard working etc. etc. However, the dinosaurs still have plenty of pull. The mindset of the dinosaurs will have to change.

thirstywork

employ former runners who know the grassroots of the sport.

thirtyfoot

thirstywork wrote: »

employ former runners who know the grassroots of the sport.

Will throwers or jumpers be allowed apply?;)

As helpisontheway said, Mary Coghlan would fit this bill. Former athlete at grassroots level. Knows many athletes, elite and non-elite.

Majority (if not all) of fulltime and partime paid AAI staff are former athletes/coaches. Being a former runner is not a prerequisite for being good.

A "cardigan wearing, 40 Majors a day chain smoking, part-time greyhound training, still those 30 miles a week fair play to him" kind of person is not who is required:) We need to aspire to more than that:p

footing

thirstywork wrote: »

employ former runners who know the grassroots of the sport.

Two words: Eamonn Coghlan. Look how he was shafted by the dinosaurs. What I'm told is needed is someone who can get all the country boards on side; in other words, an operator.

ecoli

footing wrote: »

Two words: Eamonn Coghlan. Look how he was shafted by the dinosaurs. What I'm told is needed is someone who can get all the country boards on side; in other words, an operator.

something tells me that no indiviual would be able to do this i thing a team would have to be assembled

thirstywork

last time i looked the entries for the:mad: natioanl seniors arent even online

ChickenTikka

ecoli wrote: »

something tells me that no indiviual would be able to do this i thing a team would have to be assembled

I wonder if anyone or team can do the job if we don't know what the job is. What's the job of the CEO vs the President vs the High Performance Manager vs the Board etc ? What's the overlap/interface/control between the paid staff and the volunteers? How is that defined so as to be fair to everyone. What powers should the paid staff have over the vounteers or vice versa? Who runs the association - the CEO or the board? Who elects the board and do they know who they are electing and why they are electing them (other than he or she helped me out with a late entry to the cross-country in 2005 or Mick from Timbuck2 AC said this guy was sound).

The organisation depends on both the paid staff and the volunteers to be successful so I think its key to have above defined - even if its wrong, at least if its defined, it can be improved over time.

I think in the absense of a fairly thorough definition of who's responsible for what, we end up in this type of mess with friction between people. Maybe thats what the current (or is that former) CEO was trying to do.

Fish'n'Chips

Eamonn Coghlan shafted by the dinosaurs followed eerily 20 years later by Mary Coghlan.

Is is something to do with the word Coghlan or is there more of a common trend starting to appear?

People can talk about getting professionals in who "fit the bill" or "ball breakers" but the reality is under the current structure of AAI no CEO will be allowed to do the job as a proper CEO should be.

The shafters, backstabbers, incompetents, personal agenda holders etc. are in abundance and that is the real reason why efficient progress will never occur under the current structure of AAI and it doesn't look like ever changing.

As I said before (and it seems perverse initially) but maybe the best thing that might happen for athletics in Ireland would be if AAI went bankrupt and a new organisation and constitution had to be formed.

footing

ChickenTikka wrote: »

I wonder if anyone or team can do the job if we don't know what the job is. What's the job of the CEO vs the President vs the High Performance Manager vs the Board etc ? What's the overlap/interface/control between the paid staff and the volunteers? How is that defined so as to be fair to everyone. What powers should the paid staff have over the vounteers or vice versa? Who runs the association - the CEO or the board? Who elects the board and do they know who they are electing and why they are electing them (other than he or she helped me out with a late entry to the cross-country in 2005 or Mick from Timbuck2 AC said this guy was sound).

The organisation depends on both the paid staff and the volunteers to be successful so I think its key to have above defined - even if its wrong, at least if its defined, it can be improved over time.

I think in the absense of a fairly thorough definition of who's responsible for what, we end up in this type of mess with friction between people. Maybe thats what the current (or is that former) CEO was trying to do.

Excellent point.

footing

FishnChips wrote: »

Eamonn Coghlan shafted by the dinosaurs followed eerily 20 years later by Mary Coghlan.

Is is something to do with the word Coghlan or is there more of a common trend starting to appear?

People can talk about getting professionals in who "fit the bill" or "ball breakers" but the reality is under the current structure of AAI no CEO will be allowed to do the job as a proper CEO should be.

The shafters, backstabbers, incompetents, personal agenda holders etc. are in abundance and that is the real reason why efficient progress will never occur under the current structure of AAI and it doesn't look like ever changing.

As I said before (and it seems perverse initially) but maybe the best thing that might happen for athletics in Ireland would be if AAI went bankrupt and a new organisation and constitution had to be formed.

Another excellent point.

Irishathlete_1

There are a number of interesting things coming up in this topic.

1 - The current CEO's remit means they have no real ability to bring about change

2 - There is an over riding fear that the 'dinosaurs' still control the sport

3 - Bankrupting AAI might be the way forward

Firstly, I don't fully understand how the county board structures etc work and how the voting process happens at AGM's/Congress. Could anyone outline the voting structures and process please?

Points 1 and 2 overlap. A CEO should report to the Chairman of a board of directors. Lets assume in this case it is the President. The president should then be someone from outside the sport. Someone who has experience at board level in large companies and ideally has at minimum an interest in athletics. This person should be paid a stipend and expenses, much like any company. They are therefore relatively immune to the bull**** politics. The whole idea of voting in a volunteer, no matter how experienced, to lead an organisation is farcical. As long as this is the case, the 'dinosaurs' will always control the organisation. As the AAI does not have shareholders like most businesses, all board positions should be paid positions (nominal payment + expenses), again, not voluntary. These should be leaders of industry or executives from other sporting bodies.

Now, at this point the CEO could/should be given executive powers on a day to day basis. They should present strategies and plans to be approved by the board. on an annual basis, and update the board monthly, but no more then update, unless there are serious issues.

This way the sport could actually move forward, and being brutal, the county board and volunteer politicians would just have to like it or lump it.

Is bankrupting the way forward? When this happened to British Athletics, in very similar circumstances, it took many many years for them to recover fully. Although this may seem like a quick win, what would it actually achieve unless the voting structures and make up of the board are changed? So the AAI has no money and goes out of business, just to resurface as Irish Athletics with the same faces in the same places. Also, I don't believe the ISC could allow that to happen (tin hat on - I know you'll all say that was their goal with pushing Coghlan's departure, however, they either lost their bottle, or could not allow it to happen, as they did re-instate funding. One thing Ossie Kilkenny has in abundance is bottle, so I think that it is the other reason).

Would any new organisation have a different process of appointing a board? The system hasn't changed for probably 50 years, through NACA to BLE to AAI, why should it change now, when it is largely the same faces involved?

Before the 'volunteers are the life blood' brigade come out, here is something to ponder. Would these volunteers not be better served by a profitable and self financing governing body who can filter funds to the provincial/county boards where the volunteers can then make a realy difference, rather then wasting their time bickering in a board room in Santry?

RoyMcC

Nice post Mr Athlete. You'd think any organisation would operate more effectively and efficiently along those lines. In fact UK Athletics, with proven business managers now in the Chair and CEO positions, with the experts in the sport reporting in to them, is now looking like a body that is taking the sport forward.

On the BAF bankruptcy it was certainly the case initially that the phoenix arising from the ashes was comprised of much the same people as previously.

footing

My only worry is applying a business "model" to anything. In this country, we are knee-deep in five-year plans, mission statements, think-tanks, quangos of one sort or another and farcically expanded human resources departments. It hasn't made this a better country.
What is needed urgently - and I mean this week - is a sympathetic and patient mediator who can get the various parties into a room and let them talk. Maybe that way we can get to the root of the problem.
Going to the courts is no solution; the only winners will be Our Learned Friends.

Irishathlete_1

RoyMcC wrote: »

Nice post Mr Athlete. You'd think any organisation would operate more effectively and efficiently along those lines. In fact UK Athletics, with proven business managers now in the Chair and CEO positions, with the experts in the sport reporting in to them, is now looking like a body that is taking the sport forward.

On the BAL bankruptcy it was certainly the case initially that the phoenix arising from the ashes was comprised of much the same people as previously.

Thanks. I can't take credit for all of these thoughts. It mainly came from a discussion with a friend of mine, who will possibly be applying for the CEO's position should it come up. We had some disagreements on the job, but in the main our thought process was going in the same direction

limerickleader

footing wrote: »

My only worry is applying a business "model" to anything. In this country, we are knee-deep in five-year plans, mission statements, think-tanks, quangos of one sort or another and farcically expanded human resources departments. It hasn't made this a better country.
What is needed urgently - and I mean this week - is a sympathetic and patient mediator who can get the various parties into a room and let them talk. Maybe that way we can get to the root of the problem.
Going to the courts is no solution; the only winners will be Our Learned Friends.

I fear we have gone past the point of mediation at this stage given that the CEO has been dismissed from her post and initiated legal action. The best we can hope for is that the case settles over the summer as otherwise there will be significant time and resources expended on this case to the detriment of athletics in this country.

The likelihood however is that the case will drag on when the courts reopen.

As has been mentioned a number of times in this thread, the fact that things have come to this in the same year that all the focus ought to be on organinsing a seamless Euro XC in Santry is very, to put it mildly, annoying. The development and management of the sport in this country has come to an effective standstill (non-implemetation of incorporation of "AAI" Co. after organising an EGM, funding difficulties for training camps, etc) pending the resolution of this issue.

SloggerJogger

I think ive found the solution i wonder why this hasnt hit anyone yet!! There is a Team who can help us only problem is where to find them??

In 1972 a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem. If no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire, The A Team.

Il say a prayer!!;)

myflipflops

I have to bump this. I just watched a chunk of the YouTube footage. My initial reaction:

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!


Highlight:

Olivia Mitchell (OM): Where is the CEO?

All Conquering President Hennessy (ACPH): The CEO is on holidays.

M: Was she invited here today.

ACPH: Well, em, no she wasn't invited here today

OM: So the matter of her being on holidays is irrelevant, it is basically a red herring.

ACPH: (shuffles and checks notes, presumably the lunch menu) well, em......



I immediately thought of another grilling that a great leader struggled through:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPCnXygDqrI