Examiners Munster Hurling Team of the last 25 years

premierstone

Has anyone got the official shortlist/nominations for this, didnt get the paper the last two days was off work??

Was discussing it with a few lads last week on foot of the football one and even to narrow it down to the 45 nominations is a tough task!

AMixedBag

Just found it now premier.
1. Brendan cummins. Tipp
Ger cunningham. Cork
davy fitz. Clare

2.paul delaney. Tipp
stephan mcdonagh. Limerick
wayne sherlock. Cork

3.brian lohan. Clare
diarmuid o sullivan. Cork
noel sheehy. Tipp

4. Frank lohan. Clare
Brian murphy. Cork
Michael ryan. Tipp

5.Conal bonnar. Tipp
tony browne. Waterford
Liam doyle. Clare

6. Ciaran carey. Limerick
Brian corcoran. Cork
Seanie mcmahon. Clare.

7. Anthony daly. Clare
Mark foley. Limerick
Sean og o hailpin. Cork

8 & 9. Tommy dunne. Tipp
john fenton. cork
Colin lynch. Clare
tom kenny. Cork
jerry o connor. Cork
michael walsh. Waterford.

10. Michael cleary. Tipp
ben o connor. Cork
dan shanahan. Waterford

11. Gary kirby. Limerick
ken mcgrath. Waterford
declan ryan. tipp

12. John leahy. tipp.
Jamesie o connor. Clare
tony o sullivan. Cork

13. Pat fox. Tipp
Eoin kelly. Tipp
john mullane. Waterford

14. cormac bonnar. Tipp
jimmy barry murphy. Cork
Eoin kelly. Waterford

15. Joe deane. Cork.
Paul flynn. waterford
nicky english. Tipp

I think thats it alright. Centre back is hard to call. Id give it to seanie but its a hard one. Centre forward as well is preety tough. Kirby would be my choice. But mcgrath is a class player too. Kirbys free-taking is the thing that stands out for me though.

premierstone

Right obviously this is very much opinion based and Im sure i'll be slaughtered but this is the team I would pick based on those nominations*

Would be very differenbt if it wasnt limited in this way.

1. Davey

2. Paul Delaney

3. Brian Lohan

4. Brian Murphy

5. Tony Browne

6. Brian Corcoran

7. Sean Og

8. Tommy Dunne
9. John Fenton

10. Ben O'Connor

11. Gary Kirby

12. Jamsie O'Connor

John Leahy

13. Eoin Kelly

14. Jimmy Barry Murphy

15. Nicky English.

Strangely enough the two I agonised over the most were between Clare and Tipp guys and I gave them to the Clare guys to avoid been accused of favourtism - Davey over Cummins and Jamsie over Leahy mainly because I feel while Brendan is a better shot stopper Davey was a better all round player and while Leahy undoubtedly had more skill Jamsie in effect won 2 AI's as the only real scoring forward on that team while Leahy was surrounded by great forwards such as Fox, English, Bonner, Cleary and Ryan.

Centre Forward again was a tough call, McGrath definitely hasnt done enough hurling as acentre forward to even merit a nomination and actually its a slight on the man himself that he's nominated there and not in the half back line, Declan Ryan was incredible and Tipp still havent replaced hm he actually won 3 AI'S spanning three seperate decades but I had to have a Limerick man there and Kirby was an awesome hurler and very unlucky not to have won at least one AI.

AMixedBag

Ill give it a bash as well.
1. Fitzy
2. Paul delaney
3. Brian lohan
4. Frank lohan
5. Tony browne
6. Seanie mc
7. Mark foley
8. Colin lynch
9. John fenton
10. Ben O Connor
11. Gary kirby
12. Jamesie O Connor
13. Eoin Kelly
14. Jimmy barry murphy
15. Joe deane

well people will probably question my choice at number 15 but i never really saw english play or have barely ever seen past matches of him playing so joe deane would have been my choice on that spot. As for midfield, I admired colin lynch as I was growing up along with seanie mc so I thought he was worth a mention. Mark foley has been around for years and still finds the urge to keep going so I put him in at number 7. Similar to premiers abit.

AMixedBag

Ill give it a bash as well.
1. Fitzy
2. Paul delaney
3. Brian lohan
4. Frank lohan
5. Tony browne
6. Seanie mc
7. Mark foley
8. Colin lynch
9. John fenton
10. Ben O Connor
11. Gary kirby
12. Jamesie O Connor
13. Eoin Kelly
14. Jimmy barry murphy
15. Joe deane

well people will probably question my choice at number 15 but i never really saw english play or have barely ever seen past matches of him playing so joe deane would have been my choice on that spot. As for midfield, I admired colin lynch as I was growing up along with seanie mc and the lohan brothers so I thought he was worth a mention. Mark foley has been around for years and still finds the urge to keep going so I put him in at number 7. Similar to premiers abit.

yahoo_moe

Few tough calls alright... I'll go with:

1. Brendan Cummins

2. Paul Delaney 3. Brian Lohan 4. Frank Lohan

5. Tony Browne 6. Brian Corcoran 7. Sean Óg

8. Colin Lynch 9. John Fenton

10. Ben O'Connor 11. Gary Kirby 12. John Leahy

13. Eoin Kelly (Tipp) 14. JBM 15. Nicky English


I'm going with Fenton and JBM on rep/what I've heard as they were somewhat before my time. But they each sound they'd be well worth their places. Honorary mentions to John Mullane, Seanie McMahon (I almost think he should've been in), Declan Ryan and Jamesie O'Connor (Leahy was just a classy, classy hurler).

premierstone

AMixedBag wrote: »

Ill give it a bash as well.
1. Fitzy
2. Paul delaney
3. Brian lohan
4. Frank lohan
5. Tony browne
6. Seanie mc
7. Mark foley
8. Colin lynch
9. John fenton
10. Ben O Connor
11. Gary kirby
12. Jamesie O Connor
13. Eoin Kelly
14. Jimmy barry murphy
15. Joe deane

well people will probably question my choice at number 15 but i never really saw english play or have barely ever seen past matches of him playing so joe deane would have been my choice on that spot. As for midfield, I admired colin lynch as I was growing up along with seanie mc so I thought he was worth a mention. Mark foley has been around for years and still finds the urge to keep going so I put him in at number 7. Similar to premiers abit.

How did you pick JBM, Fenton and Paul Delaney so :P :P

Benhonan

Right I'll have a go.

1. Ger Cunningham
2. Stephen McDonagh
3. Brian Lohan
4. Frank Lohan
5. Tony Browne
6. Seanie McMahon
7. Sean Og
8. Colin Lynch
9. Jerry O'Connor
10. Ben O'Connor
11. Gary Kirby
12. John Leahy
13. Eoin Kelly
14. JBM
15. Nicky English

Ger Cunningham gets in for being hurler of the year from goalie, is he the only one to ever have achieved that? Davy was a great player but got too excited. McDonagh I haven't seen much of but on rep is considered a great player. It's very hard to leave Brian Corcoran off but I had to have at least one of that Clare half back line on and Seanie is a classy hurler. The O'Connors add a bit of pace to the team, even if Jerry has blown hot and cold over his career, again he is a former hurler of the year. It was very tough between Leahy and Jamesie but Leahy was an awesome hurler. Eoin Kelly I considered to be the best hurler in Ireland for a few years there and the other two get in on reputation.

AMixedBag

premierstone wrote: »

How did you pick JBM, Fenton and Paul Delaney so :P :P

Have a couple of pirate dvds with cork matches. Watch them with my dad when im supposed to be doing something. He just keeps pointing out barry murphy and fenton. 'oh look, he is some great stuff boy'. Im 18, give me a break! I cant have lived to watch every hurler play. And Ill admit it, I have a hatred towards english. Ok, I said it. Haha.

premierstone

AMixedBag wrote: »

Have a couple of pirate dvds with cork matches. Watch them with my dad when im supposed to be doing something. He just keeps pointing out barry murphy and fenton. 'oh look, he is some great stuff boy'. Im 18, give me a break! I cant have lived to watch every hurler play. And Ill admit it, I have a hatred towards english. Ok, I said it. Haha.

Well I was begining to suspect as much and if you picked Paul Delaney sure Nickey played in nearly all the matches he would have been involved in

Benhonan ; Im not sure but I think Ollie Walsh and maybe even Noel Skehan won hurler of the year as a goalkeeper, I've had this arguement with older guys and while I accept that Skehan and Reddan were exceptional and tough men I really think that the likes of Fitzheny, Cummins and Davy have taken goalkeeping to a different level, and Cunningham was somewhere in between in that he was ahead of he's time athletically as a goalkeeper but I dont think he had the agility and 'eye' of those three, although he had an incredibly long and successfull career.

Looks like in my attempt to not look too biased I shafted poor Leahy, in fairness I actually think flawed and all as he was he was an absolute genius on the field in full flight but I think that he's unpopularity outside Tipp might count against him, he's not the most popular guy in the world.

AMixedBag

premierstone wrote: »

Well I was begining to suspect as much and if you picked Paul Delaney sure Nickey played in nearly all the matches he would have been involved in

That delaney one was just someone I threw in there to be honest. Sounded better than those other 2 planks.
Rest of them are genuine though.

Benhonan

Premier; that's fair enough alright, I remember going to watch Clare as a kid and idolising Davy myself. Still Ger has four puc fadas, a hurler of the year, seven all Irelands and a rake of all star so even though I never saw him play I had to go with him. For all Davy's ability he cost us games when he lost the head.

On the subject of Leahy, I really hated the guy with a passion to be honest. Still there's no denying his ability, himself Lohan Seanie JBM and English would be the players on that team who should be accorded iconic status in my opinion. Also I heard that Leahy made an effort to take John Reddan under his wing when he was going through the same problems that he had himself and I'd be willing to forgive him a lot for that.

grenache

I'll pick my team later but i think Joe Quaid was very unlucky not to be nominated for goalkeeper. Every bit as good a shotstopper as Fitzy and Cummins. No doubt his lack of an All Ireland is telling against him, and the fact that he retired early too.

Morrisseeee

My quick picks

Ger cunningham(easy)

stephan mcdonagh
brian lohan(easy)
Frank lohan

tony browne (toughie)
Ciaran carey (toughie)
Anthony daly

tom kenny
john fenton

ben o connor (toughie)
ken mcgrath
Jamesie o connor

Eoin kelly (toughie)
jimmy barry murphy(easy)
Paul flynn

deccy15

here's my tu'pence worth

1. ger cunninghham

2. stephen mcdonagh
3. brian lohan
4. frank lohan

5. conal bonnar
6. seanie mcmahon
7. anthony daly

8. tommy dunne
9. colin lynch

10. michael cleary
11. declan ryan
12. jamsie o connor

13. john mullane
14. jimmy barry murphy
15. nicky english

probably get accused of bias on 1 or 2 counts!! would have had sean og at 5 if that was allowed, daly has to be there 4 leadership alone!! just 2 young 2 remember john fenton so couldn't put him in, just about rem jbm and ger cunningham!! picked mullane and declan ryan cos i think they were more of a threat from play than kirby and kelly!!

And brian lohan as hurler of last 25 years without a doubt!!!!!!

jimmym

g cunningham
w sherlock b lohan ml ryan

t
browne s mcmahon sean og o halpin

c lynch j o connor

b o connor g kirby j leahy

p fox cormac bonnar n english

keeper position was v tough,cunningham just edges fitz for me,
sherlock class act,brian lohan best full back iv ever seen,
sean mcmahon made n6 his own,
john leahy a genius,pat fox for me better than english,
went for cormac bonnar as i feel jbm was past his peak after 86

Daysha

I hate trying to pick starting 15's like this. Both Paul Flynn and Ken McGrath are easily in the top 15 Munster players of the past 25 years, but even I can't find a place for them in the team since they're up against Nicky English and Gary Kirby.

Benhonan

I know what ya mean. I was agonising over whether to have Seanie or Corcoran number 6, but still had to plop McDonagh in corner back. The simple thing would be to play Corcoran there. There is a case to be made for McGrath or Carey at wing back ahead of Sean Og also.

Daysha

If I had the time I'd post a simple top 10 list, but I usual agonise over those kinda things way too much.

As a side issue, anyone else catch the rte.ie/sport poll regarding the same topic? Nice to see the Waterford lads making their point well known

jrd

Best I say that I was born and bred in the Déise before I post my XV

1. Cummins
2. Sherlock
3. Lohan
4. Murphy
5. Browne
6. Macmahon
7. Daly
8. Lynch
9. Fenton
10. Shanahan
11. McGrath (toughest call over Kirby, though Kelly at 13 would take frees)
12. O'Connor
13. Kelly (Mullane would have been 10/12)
14. JBM
15. English

The pairings are controversial provoking debatable choices. They could have made it easier but then no-one would talk about it

grenache

Dont know why anyone would choose Ken McGrath at CF when he's done most of his best hurling at CB. Kirby would take that spot for me.

Erin Go Brath

My 15, some positions were top loaded with talent so a few tight calls.

1. Brendan cummins. Tipp

2. Paul delaney. Tipp

3. Brian lohan. Clare

4. Frank lohan. Clare

5. Tony browne. Waterford

6. Ciaran carey. Limerick

7. Anthony daly. Clare

8 & 9.
john fenton. cork
tom kenny. Cork

10. ben o connor. Cork

11. Gary kirby. Limerick

12. Jamesie o connor. Clare

13. john mullane. Waterford

14. jimmy barry murphy. Cork

15. nicky english. Tipp

buck65

are you from Clare by any chance?

premierstone

I really cant understand how anyone can justify having Mullane ahead of Eoin Kelly (or even Pat Fox for that matter).

Is it just based on their respective current form? Because if you look at the bigger picture and base it on their careers to date its an absolute no-brainer imo.

Erin Go Brath

premierstone wrote: »

I really cant understand how anyone can justify having Mullane ahead of Eoin Kelly (or even Pat Fox for that matter).

Is it just based on their respective current form? Because if you look at the bigger picture and base it on their careers to date its an absolute no-brainer imo.

Its all subjective really. You could have either Mullane or Kelly on that team and it wouldnt be weaker either way. Kelly was playing better than Mullane a few years ago, now its the opposite.

cruiserweight

All 25 year Munster hurling team threads merged

deisedude

premierstone wrote: »

I really cant understand how anyone can justify having Mullane ahead of Eoin Kelly (or even Pat Fox for that matter).

Is it just based on their respective current form? Because if you look at the bigger picture and base it on their careers to date its an absolute no-brainer imo.

John Mullane has scored more from play than Eoin Kelly from 2005 to 2008. Before you say Eoin Kelly has played less games, let me also point out Mullane has a better scoring average than Kelly from play in all those years too bar 2006. Kelly racks up big scores from frees and this has people thinking he is better than he is.
You can check here to verify
http://www.hurlingstats.com/scores_index.php

premierstone

deisedude wrote: »

John Mullane has scored more from play than Eoin Kelly from 2005 to 2008. Before you say Eoin Kelly has played less games, let me also point out Mullane has a better scoring average than Kelly from play in all those years too bar 2006. Kelly racks up big scores from frees and this has people thinking he is better than he is.
You can check here to verify
http://www.hurlingstats.com/scores_index.php

Eoin Kelly has been playing senior since 2000 while still a minor and has been Tipps only scoring threat for large parts of he's career, he has 5 all-star awards all bar one won in years when Tipp won nothing, and a very high percentage of the frees you are referring to are won by Kelly himself and free-taking is actually a skill.

Mullane would not even be the best corner forward from Waterford in the last 25 years tbh.

deisedude

premierstone wrote: »

Eoin Kelly has been playing senior since 2000 while still a minor and has been Tipps only scoring threat for large parts of he's career, he has 5 all-star awards all bar one won in years when Tipp won nothing, and a very high percentage of the frees you are referring to are won by Kelly himself and free-taking is actually a skill.

Mullane would not even be the best corner forward from Waterford in the last 25 years tbh.

I'm not saying Eoin Kelly isnt a great player and yes i recognise free taking is a skill. I was putting forward an argument as to why people would pick Mullane over Kelly. You suggested it was a no brainer whereas the reality is there is very little between them. As for winning frees, i think your point is moot. Mullane wins just as many frees for Waterford as Kelly does for Tipp. The fact Mullane has only one all star is a disgrace IMO. Last year he was far more worthy of an all star than Joe Canning (one game) or Shefflin who scored very little from play and prob got it on reputation. Only Paul Flynn could lay a claim at being a better corner forward for Waterford in the past 25 years and even then its arguable

Daysha

I would put Kelly ahead of Mullane too (only just) but using All-Stars to back up opinions is pretty laughable. They've been a joke for years.

premierstone

Daysha wrote: »

I would put Kelly ahead of Mullane too (only just) but using All-Stars to back up opinions is pretty laughable. They've been a joke for years.

Any more laughable than using average scores from play in 3 of the last 4 years when both have been playing intercounty since 2000 and 2001 respectively :rolleyes:

Orizio

The absence of Timmy McCarthy in this thread is shocking.

Daysha

premierstone wrote: »

Any more laughable than using average scores from play in 3 of the last 4 years when both have been playing intercounty since 2000 and 2001 respectively :rolleyes:

To be fair to deisedude, he was only using stats from 2004 onwards because that's as far back hurlingstats.com goes.

I'm trying to find a full record of Eoin Kelly's scoring record since 2000, but for what it's worth, since Mullane made his debut in 2001, he has scored 11-93 in 35 Championship games, all from play. Pretty amazing stuff for a non-free taking corner forward.

Edit: found it. 12-261 from 40 Championship games. Not able to tell what percentage came from play though. Of course even the most die-hard Waterford fans would find it hard to include Mullane ahead of Kelly based on those statistics.

deisedude

premierstone wrote: »

Any more laughable than using average scores from play in 3 of the last 4 years when both have been playing intercounty since 2000 and 2001 respectively :rolleyes:

As Daysha mentioned the stats only go back to 2004 on hurlingstats.ie. If you cared to look you would have noticed that.:rolleyes:

premierstone

deisedude wrote: »

As Daysha mentioned the stats only go back to 2004 on hurlingstats.ie. If you cared to look you would have noticed that.:rolleyes:

I didnt look because I dont need to check a stat site for me to know damn well that Eoin Kelly has been a far more accomplished hurler over a longer period of time, than someone who wasnt able to strike the ball of both sides untill 12 months ago and continually over carries the ball but gets away with it

yahoo_moe

deisedude wrote: »

As Daysha mentioned the stats only go back to 2004 on hurlingstats.ie. If you cared to look you would have noticed that.:rolleyes:

Have to say, I assumed you were quoting those years because it suited your argument - there's a lot of that around here, so I can see where premierstone was coming from.

Personally, I think Mullane's a cracking hurler but his best years have come in a better side than the one in which Kelly had his best years (so far - he's only a pup yet).

Also, beyond score-taking, I think Kelly's a better, smarter hurler who can do more - Mullane can be a bit of a one-trick pony sometimes, even if he is very good at that one trick.

So Kelly for me, though I hope Mullane gets the All-Star this year to recognise his form last year (and so far this year).

premierstone

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Have to say, I assumed you were quoting those years because it suited your argument - there's a lot of that around here, so I can see where premierstone was coming from.

Personally, I think Mullane's a cracking hurler but his best years have come in a better side than the one in which Kelly had his best years (so far - he's only a pup yet).

Also, beyond score-taking, I think Kelly's a better, smarter hurler who can do more - Mullane can be a bit of a one-trick pony sometimes, even if he is very good at that one trick.

So Kelly for me, though I hope Mullane gets the All-Star this year to recognise his form last year (and so far this year).

Agreed most definitely and I think he will, apologies Deisedude if some of my previous posts (particularly the last one) seemed like I was having a go at Mullane Im not but I just think that Eoin Kelly is been forgotten by alot of people because of the injury and form problems of the last 2 years and the fact that in these two years Mullane has hit the form of he's life, but when Kelly was in full flight, scoring points over he's shoulders, scoring spectacular goals he was a one-man forward unit. He was costantly double-marked but it made no difference. He has a lot of similarities with Canning in that regard, luckily for Canning he is more physical and should be able to withstand the punishment better though, oh and they both played minor for 4 years.

deccy15

deisedude wrote: »

The fact Mullane has only one all star is a disgrace IMO. Last year he was far more worthy of an all star than Joe Canning (one game) or Shefflin who scored very little from play and prob got it on reputation.

the guy should have easily 2 or 3 all stars, he's been the most consistent forward in the country for the last few years!!!

Browney7

Right I'll pick mine. I think Quaid was unlucky alright not to be nominated but the other three are/were super hurlers.

Brendan Cummins
Steve McDonagh Brian Lohan Frank Lohan
Tony Browne Brian Corcoran Sean Og
Jerry O'Connor
Tommy Dunne
Ben O'Connor Gary Kirby Jamsie O'Connor
Eoin Kelly JBM Paul Flynn

Some Right tough calls there tbh. Really wanted to give centre back to Seanie McMahon but I just think Corcoran was one of the greatest hurlers I've ever seen and a true sportsman. Gave Flynn the corner forward spot because of his sheer audacity. Wether some of those goals from frees were flukes I don't know but you couldn't predict what he could do. Was torn between Daly and Sean Og aswell.

roashter

1. Brendan Cummins

2. Stephan McDonagh
3. Brian Lohan
4. Frank Lohan

5. Tony Browne
6. Seanie McMahon
7. Sean Og O'hAilpin

8. John Fenton
9. Colin Lynch

10. Ben O'Connor
11. Gary Kirby
12. Jamesie O'Connor

13. Eoin Kelly -Tipp
14. Jimmy Barry Murphy
15. Nicky English

MfMan

Jaaz, you give the totally overrated Sean Og one and omit Gardiner? Ye Gods!

corcaioch

1. Ger cunningham. Cork


2. wayne sherlock. Cork

3.brian lohan. Clare

4. Michael ryan. Tipp

5. Liam doyle. Clare

6. Seanie mcmahon. Clare.

7. Anthony daly. Clare


8 & 9. Tommy dunne. Tipp
john fenton. cork


10. Michael cleary. Tipp


11. ken mcgrath. Waterford


12. tony o sullivan. Cork

13. Pat fox. Tipp


14. jimmy barry murphy. Cork


15. nicky english. Tipp

deisedude

premierstone wrote: »

Agreed most definitely and I think he will, apologies Deisedude if some of my previous posts (particularly the last one) seemed like I was having a go at Mullane Im not but I just think that Eoin Kelly is been forgotten by alot of people because of the injury and form problems of the last 2 years and the fact that in these two years Mullane has hit the form of he's life, but when Kelly was in full flight, scoring points over he's shoulders, scoring spectacular goals he was a one-man forward unit. He was costantly double-marked but it made no difference. He has a lot of similarities with Canning in that regard, luckily for Canning he is more physical and should be able to withstand the punishment better though, oh and they both played minor for 4 years.

In all fairness our argument has been a bit trivial. They are both fantastic hurlers who at times have carried their teams almost on their own. I dont think the team would be weakened in any way by picking one over the other.

Benhonan

Corcaioch- loving the Clare flavour to your backs but would you really leave off both Leahy and Jamesie from number 12?

observed

Cummins

P.delaney B.Lohan F.Lohan

L.Doyle B.Corcoran A. Daly

T. Dunne J.Fenton

M.Cleary D.Ryan J. Leahy

P.Fox JBM N. English



Goalie is a subjective i think cummins longevity and consistency has edged cunningham.
full back line is handy enough think delaney edged Mc Donagh (he did some hurling for limerick in his time. Reale should also get a mention) L.Doyle was the best of the clare HB line IMO fine hurler Corcoran edges Seanie (i couldn't have a full clare H/b line anyway)
Dunne and fenton fine sticksmen Tommy is one of our finest hurlers of all time he was unlucky to be around in a poor era for tipperary only getting one all-Ireland and never getting a club one for toome. Fenton is before my time but often heard the auld lad talking about him

I know the forwards are biased maybe skippy is a lucky one but Dec Leahy English are shoe ins for any team give foxthe nod ahead of Kelly serious hurler from my limited memory of the era (Saw enough videos of English to feel no more need to back that one up) JBM is on reputation only again